Duty of Care - What Does OzBargain Have?

Mikinoz on 09/08/2010 - 15:40

Just wondering this as i have seen many posts of bargain hunters like myself spending there hard earned and getting nothing in return well certain variations of that! True there is more lucky/happy hunters out there who have been lucky enough to slay the bargain beast

Okay sure this is not a post to point the finger at scotty and say "i didnt get my priceengine drives" but what you think should be done personally i think some care should be taken by the mods etc when a new deal is listed,

On the flip side some sites are being swamped by Ozbargain and what negative aspects does that have for the reputation/future of this site most of us hold dear…

General Discussion

Comments

  • andy19363 on 09/08/2010 - 16:17
    +3

    I suspect that the mods have enought to do without investigating the validity of every deal posted…..Their job is to ensure the smooth running of the site.
    Surely it's up to the individual to make their own judgement on a deal?….none of the deals are 'recommended' by ozbargain as such.

    I personally can't imagine commerce sites complaining that they are being swamped….too many customers is never a bad thing.

    Whilst there is little that can be done….. it does mildly irk me when I read things like
    "yay….I've no use for one but got it anyway"
    "yay….I got 27 of them"
    "yay….I signed up with multiple accounts and got 4"
    Etc
    As has been previously noted, there is a great 'herd mentality' here, where people are swept along buying, (or getting free), crap they don't really need.
    I've said before that there are many on here who would buy a dog turd if it came with free shipping.

    • Mikinoz on 09/08/2010 - 16:28

      Dog turd with free shipping what a great revenge idea lol

    • huntress_love on 09/08/2010 - 17:11

      lol, thats probably true.
      sometime i wonder why ppl get useless crap they dont need.
      like the recent dealsdirect thing. if you have no use for a zen holder why would you borther just to make $2 on it on ebay. why not just leave it for someone who can use it!

      • cwongtech on 09/08/2010 - 17:19
        +1

        Cause an alias for OzBargain's bargain hunters is "Cheapass" =P
        I didn't get the zen holder, but yeah.. I don't get why you would have a zen holder if you don't have a zen..
        It's like claiming free mac software which is limited in downloads when you don't even have a mac =S

        • [Deactivated] on 11/08/2010 - 13:24

          I just recived my zen case!!! :P
          Works horrible on my zen. Doesnt even fit. hahahaha

          But i put my sons ipod classic/video and fits perfect. So errr…. yea…

    • Davo1111 on 09/08/2010 - 18:57
      +1

      I'll take 3 of those turds please.

      • andy19363 on 09/08/2010 - 19:07

        so long as you promise not to put them on e-bay……..

        • Davo1111 on 10/08/2010 - 12:19

          hmmmm,….. :( fine, ill just take 1 then :/

    • aldog on 09/08/2010 - 20:14
      +1

      Just had to smile when I read your comment "yay…I got 27 of them"
      Then I read lukelegend's comments at http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/29402 saying he bought 20 Xbox Elites from Harvey Norman, tried flogging them off on eBay and now PayPal have limited access to his account :)
      As you stated 'crap they don't really need' or in this case is that 'crap giving them greed'?

  • clandestino on 09/08/2010 - 16:36
    +3

    hmm I'm not sure that ozbargain should have a duty of care at all. Ozbargain provides us with links to external sites. Most will be very reputable… some will be a little less reputable…. and perhaps one or two might actually be fraudulent. But the user needs to be responsible for his/her own purchases.. It isn't practical for Ozbargain to police.

    • Mikinoz on 09/08/2010 - 16:57

      Thanks you make a good point

  • Davo1111 on 09/08/2010 - 18:54
    +1

    hey guys, i just wanted to mention a few things

    • the site is provided as is, and is maintained by volunteers.
    • we can't provide a guarantee for any website/deal posted on ozbargain
    • we (the moderators) do out best to look for dodgy activity and unpublish when required.
    • we dont have any special legal rights. Apart from publically accessible information (and information surrendered by the users computer when accessing the site) - we dont have any special "police/intelligence" powers.

    I've said it before, and i'll say it again. Everyone here is responsible for their own purchases.

    from a legal perspective, the terms and conditions state the following:

    Indemnification
    You agree to hold harmless and indemnify OzBargain, and its subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, agents, and employees from and against any third party claim arising from or in any way related to your use of the Service, including any liability or expense arising from all claims, losses, damages (actual and consequential), suits, judgments, litigation costs and attorneys' fees, of every kind and nature. In such a case, OzBargain will provide you with written notice of such claim, suit or action.

    Regarding a dodgy site, you are well within you're right to write your concerns in the comments (or even vote negative). The mods will unpublish dodgy sites (and we do unpublish many, particularly from overseas). We have to balance the line of over-moderation and user-protection.

    the site is run for the community, by the community. We get many many reports, and do our best to properly investigate each one. Personally i'm always a little suspect when new stores/people post on the site, but everyone has to start somewhere. And as we already know, the first posts can be record breakers.

    oh, and to quote the OFT's website; "if its too good to be true, it probably is"

    I hope that answers everyones questions

    Feel free to discuss :)

    EDIT: changed can to cant - Freudian slip

    • Davo1111 on 10/08/2010 - 08:31

      I also just wanted to mention that when you guys get stung, we get stung as well. I buy things via the site, so i still have the same risk that you guys have. I'm not 100% sure of the specifics of PriceEngine, but i would have been another order if i was building a big gaming rig.

  • zhenjie on 09/08/2010 - 20:02

    What exactly do you mean by "getting nothing in return well certain variations of that!"??

    • Mikinoz on 09/08/2010 - 20:07

      ie when placing an order not receiving it or getting something different than what you ordered

      • scotty on 09/08/2010 - 22:45

        If you are just talking about PricesEngine, it is certainly a very specific case. You have been on OzBargain for more than a year now so you should have seen the rise and fall of many stores/merchants, and I do hope you have many good experiences other than this specific incident.

        If they are indeed run by the same people behind 9289.com.au, I still think they might eventually sort themselves out (despite a bit unorganised).

        • Mikinoz on 10/08/2010 - 16:10

          Was an example, i guess LogitechShop and Goodbargain are others i would like to include ie new emerging business that are not well known and are unclear who the owners are etc…

          • scotty on 10/08/2010 - 22:50

            @Mikinoz: LogitechShop is Fluidtek which has been around for a while. But they are also linked with another shop that got banned on OzBargain due to sockpuppeting.

            Goodbargain — well I don't want to comment on them but they are linked to OozBoom which has been banned by OzBargain before. And via some publicly available info we have find out who runs these shops + other details.

            Maybe some kind of visible associations will help?

          • stumo on 11/08/2010 - 00:35

            @Mikinoz: AssortedGoods was another one.

  • spal on 09/08/2010 - 20:30

    If you have done your due diligence and buy from Australian businesses you would be covered under consumer protection rules. So, it should not be a big concern.

    You can end up paying for and not getting anything from brick and mortar retailer of good standing too. An example was recent liquidation of a major kitchen appliances manufacturer. All customers who had made advance payments were left high and dry.

    Now my time to quote: What has to go wrong will go wrong - Murphy's Law

    • SomeGuyOnOzB on 10/08/2010 - 15:55

      Then there are complications if the store is another state. :( If you want to settle things under consumer affairs, tribunals or courts, you may be asked to travel to the seller's state to try and take action.

      Rough guesses:
      - interstate flight $40 - $250
      - loss of a day of pay, sick leave etc - unknown
      - having the case at the tribunal $50 - $200

      Then, a lot of it depends on how well the different people present, how the referee/judge feels and what kind of appearances/presentations they prefer, on top of knowing about the various laws and/or cases that may affect the judge/referee's opinion

      … :(

  • scotty on 09/08/2010 - 22:54

    As much as I wish all the deals are legit on OzBargain, new gadgets are at special half price, and free slurpee & cheap food every single day, sorry it is just beyond the ability of myself and the moderators to control. All of us are either working or studying full time elsewhere, and the community is doing a very good job at self-moderation most of the time.

    I guess I am interested to how to fix OzBargain — especially automating certain tasks and put on more visible warnings — so it can better detect dodgy shops and warn other members. At the same time I am probably getting emails every 2nd day from merchants who complain that the comments here are "damaging their public image".

    Anyway. I am still looking for solutions, but it's not that easy.

  • ESEMCE on 10/08/2010 - 07:23
    +2

    The community feel of OzBargain is why I keep coming back. The number of deals that are Spammed/Reported and disappear within seconds of their posting is astounding! And some of the detective work done by Mods in identifying sock puppet comments and posts is pretty cool.

    Are you perhaps asking for a Flag for a New Vendor Mikinoz?
    Almost like the First Post Flag for new Posters but based on Domain Names of sites, in the first month or so of posts it could be flagged with something like:
    "WARNING: This site is a new to Ozbargain. Be cautious when purchasing from new vendors."
    After 1 month, people will likely know if the site is reliable or not and any future posts will be handled by Reporting or Negging deals.

    Perhaps you're proposing a voting system to rate the reliability of Vendors?
    The problem with such a system is that 95% of people will complain (and vote a vendor down) if they have a problem, even if the problem is resolved after some time. Few people will bother to vote positively…
    For example, there was a time here that Dell deals were being trashed by Negatives for a number of months following their repeated pricing errors! During that period, Dell's rating would have plummeted and they would have appeared to be highly disreputable despite them obviously being a reliable vendor.

    • Mikinoz on 10/08/2010 - 16:12

      Some great ideas scuba, i certainly am not suggesting anything but putting it to a discussion to see what could work , or would be fair

      • Davo1111 on 10/08/2010 - 16:30

        hmmmm regarding new vendor flag. We kind of have that at the moment except with 1st and P plates. It's based on the number of posts, not the time. Stops companies from starting an account, leaving it inactive for a month, then posting without anything.

      • pauly on 10/08/2010 - 21:50

        Yeah, it's pretty simple to distinguish between reps/non-reps, new/veteran members. All the icons are explained here.

        Regarding the topic of duty of care, like Scotty and others said, I don't think it's possible to achieve the 100% safe/hassle-free status (unless we can envisage the future). But what I think makes OzBargain a better place to bargain hunt than others is that the whole community is involved (and doing a great job so far) to make purchasing safer.

        As for your case Mikinoz, although there is very little that the mods can do to help you get your money back or the item you purchased, you've still got the backing of other members in your similar situation to decide on what action you guys, as a group, can take.

        • Mikinoz on 10/08/2010 - 21:59

          Hey Pauly, I have never actually purchased from them, except the free hdmi cable, more of an observation really of others thats stopped me :)

          • pauly on 11/08/2010 - 00:22

            @Mikinoz: Fair enough, I thought you fell victim to one of the deals posted here. :)

  • retiredfeline on 10/08/2010 - 23:48
    +3

    I'd just like to say thanks to the maintainers of Ozbargain and the community. It's a great resource, and I also mean the comments on deals that point out aspects that a lone shopper can easily miss. Social media rocks.

    I know I have got quite a lot of value from Ozbargain though I'm probably not as keen a shopper as some. Mostly freebies, coupons and such for things I really wanted.

  • infernal_max on 11/08/2010 - 04:03
    +1

    sniff, i had a tear in my eye reading that! lol

  • [Deactivated] on 11/08/2010 - 13:35

    Well my 2 cents - like all bargains if its too good, then its likely to be not that good.

    Also when I see deals being posted regularly here by a representative, I start wondering if they really have a business model that will survive. Bargains often are set up to introduce you to a business - just like the supermarkets have loss leaders to bring you in.

    Closeouts and end of line bargains are good, but most stores don't have these every day of every week.

    This is not criticising anyone here, Mikinoz, has brought up a good point and created some good discussion points.

    Maybe it comes back to our voting system, in the early days positive votes helped highlight good deals,now with anyone voting, the votes go thru the roof with no discernment at all. Sounds cheap so in goes the vote. While we have been successful to a degree in making sure negative votes are responsible, we really havent got an effective positive vote system - and no I dont have a solution to hand

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