Child Car Seat Incorrectly Fitted by Dealer

bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 18:41
Last edited 13/04/2017 - 05:54

Hi
After some advice.
Just bought a new car from Toyota. The dealer promised to install my new child car seat as part of the deal on pickup.
Took them quite a while to work it out as it was a non-ISOFIX one and after it was fitted I asked the installer "Are you 100% this is correctly installed and will not move?" - "Yes" he said.
Got home, the wife inspected it and informed me it was incorrectly installed. She confirmed this with a post to a child seat FB group (and several furious comments from randoms).
I'm very thankful my wife picked this up before we used it and put our child's life at risk (well at least more so than the normal risk associated with driving).
We are quite upset at the dealer and I don't trust them to fix it, so I'll drop by a baby store to get it fixed tomorrow.
Any thoughts on what I should tell the dealer? What would you do? Seems like a fairly bad thing to do wrong!

Cheers

—

Update:
Will give the manager a call and let them know about the error to avoid it happening in the future and the chance someone didn't notice prior to using.
Will learn how to do it myself via the instructions and if unsure, from the place we got the other installed (registered).
Note - it wasn't installed by the salesperson, there was a mechanic which does them for the shop. It was a post sales request which they were happy to do.

Automotive

closed Comments

  • spackbace on 12/04/2017 - 19:00
    +20

    This is why I hate even offering to do it.

    Car salesman here with 2 young kids. I change their car seats weekly. And I still wouldn't take responsibility for installing someone's seat wrong (I would be upfront before installing).

    Not sure why you had a dealer fit a non-genuine car seat. Holden sell them but they have isofix so it can't have been bought by them.

    Second, please, you and your wife learn how to install the seat! It's such a simple task that anyone can do properly that you don't need a 'professional' to do!

    I'd recommend you tell the dealer it was done wrong and as such you're having to get it professionally installed.

    But how was the rest of the purchase process? Please don't slag the dealer off due to 1 part of it all.

      • spackbace on 12/04/2017 - 19:13
        +12

        But installing a car seat incorrectly and putting a child at risk is fairly bad!

        So learn how to do it yourself?

        • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 19:21
          -7

          Certainly will, but with this child there wasn't the time to. Long story but it's been a busy few months mate.

        • Amaris on 12/04/2017 - 20:36
          +10

          @bargdebarg:

          9 months not enough?
          Fitting a car seat is definitely a DIY job. It takes 10min to read the instructions and do it.

        • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 21:18
          -4

          @lahiruwan: my boy was born unexpectedly premature and is lucky to be alive, so no we didn't get 9 months mate.

        • [Deactivated] on 12/04/2017 - 22:43

          @bargdebarg: Hope baby and bub are ok.

        • apple2016 on 12/04/2017 - 22:44

          No time to fix a car seat? Busy changing nappies!…

        • bargdebarg on 13/04/2017 - 07:58

          @apple2016: so. Much. Poo.

    • darkchoc on 13/04/2017 - 09:18
      +1

      It a very important to learn for to install a car seat correctly for all the reasons given in this post and below. Once learned, you can tell if it's properly attached our not.

      We had a friend lens is our first capsule and helped install it. They have 2 kids. I watched him install it as it is not ready the first time. I went back to the instruction manual after they left (and YouTube) and lo and behold, he had installed it incorrectly and had been using it incorrectly for his children. He could not believe it and was adamant that he knew it was correct.

      It becomes easy to see if a seat is installed correctly if you do it a few times. Which i think is the main point you are making and i fully agree.

      But at first attempt, the simple task of installing a car seat is not simple without a point of reference. Asking for help is the best idea (from baby bunting or friends) and then checking yourself.

      My experience is that people are terrible at following written instructions and get bamboozled. They'd probably why this article has the shocking statistics it does:

      http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/wrong-use-of-car-seats-put…

      OP - be thankful you found out that the seat was not correctly installed. Spend the time at the store and learn what a correctly fitted seat should look and feel like.

  • whooah1979 on 12/04/2017 - 19:01
    +8

    I don't trust them to fix it,

    what is there to fix? just read the manual and adjust the seat.

  • horsome on 12/04/2017 - 19:07
    +10

    I'm confused, did it need a new bolt to connect it or something? Otherwise putting in a child is a parent duty, I don't even trust my in laws to put it in right.

  • altomic on 12/04/2017 - 19:10
    +11

    Bikies, are surprisingly good with installing child car seats

  • PVA on 12/04/2017 - 19:23
    +8

    Learn to install the seats yourself.
    That way if you ever need to rent a car, travel in someone else's car you can move the seat over.
    It's really simple.

  • Nutrino on 12/04/2017 - 19:23
    +1

    Take it back to dealer to sort out.good luck.

    • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 19:47

      Thanks I think I'll just let them know so they can train up the guy and we'll learn how to do it properly

  • DarwinBoy on 12/04/2017 - 20:37
    +2

    During the first 12 months i often googled the manual to confirm correct placement after removal for cleaning. Its something i wouldnt want to rely on anyone else doing.
    Keep rhe manual in the glovebox or save the pdf/link in your phone.

  • mskeggs on 12/04/2017 - 20:53
    +16

    I just deleted a long rant.

    You're a parent now. Learn how to do stuff like install a car seat, even if it has been a busy few months. If you don't and something goes wrong, consumer law rights aren't going to be any help. You stated you see this as a big safety issue, but by abdicating responsibility to a car sales person (!!) you aren't being responsible. You are a parent now, it is on your shoulders. Seeking to have car dealers trained in baby seat fitting isn't what is the issue here.

      • mskeggs on 12/04/2017 - 21:59
        +8

        That's a very judgemental post

        You should have seen what I deleted :-0

        I try to be even handed with people, and you are right, I am ignorant of your personal circumstances. I can imagine circumstances where you and your partner had difficulty dealing with everything. I've had kids, I know it is a nightmare when they are new borns.
        I'm not being judgemental that you outsourced a task, even one you clearly felt was very important, but I am critical that you tried to outsource the responsibility, and see the failure as something that needs correcting at the car dealership.

        You cannot off load the responsibility, and my comment that consumer law is meaningless if something goes wrong was to starkly demonstrate that trying to spread responsibility to the car dealer or elsewhere is pointless, not because I think you shouldn't offload responsibility, but because you are not able to off load responsibility.

        This isn't a contractual issue where all parties have to play their part, or a team going out to play in the grand final where everybody has an equal role. If something goes wrong, there isn't sharing of blame and fault worth a damn, and the safest way to deal with this is to understand you need to embrace full responsibility from the start.

        • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 22:04

          Umm, we were just surprised that someone in the trade would be comfortable to install a car seat incorrectly that's all! Wow!

        • mskeggs on 12/04/2017 - 22:12
          +7

          @bargdebarg:

          I don't see how you can conclude they were comfortable to install it incorrectly. They surely tried to do the right thing. They aren't in the baby seat trade, after all.

          But you keep missing the point I am trying to make - it doesn't ultimately matter if they were negligent or comfortable, or evil or whatever.

          The party who would be hurt by their failure is you. Irreparably so. So the only reasonable option is to address that responsibility yourself.

        • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 22:17

          @mskeggs: I'm not missing your point. Perhaps you missed mine, If a professional does a service for you, you expect it to be done right.

        • IceCreamBandit on 12/04/2017 - 22:22
          +4

          @bargdebarg:

          I'm not missing your point. Perhaps you missed mine, If a professional does a service for you, you expect it to be done right.

          Sorry, but from what I've skimmed from the comments so far, you asked a car dealership person to install a baby seat and they did it wrong, and you're now wondering what to do.

          The car salesmen/mechanic/other dealership staff member is not a professional baby seat installer or in the baby seats business. Stop referring to them as a professional in this context. They are not. If you had a sales/customer service/mechanical/warranty issue, the dealership would be well equipped to resolve your issue.

          You might as well go to a lawyer/doctor/teacher going by your logic since they are professionals too.

        • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 22:26

          @IceCreamBandit: they have one person there who does them, not a salesperson. It's my fault if I falsely assumed they knew what they were doing.

        • mskeggs on 12/04/2017 - 22:35
          +1

          @bargdebarg:
          All the best with the new kid in any case.
          People always find fault with other's parenting, so it is just par for the course that internet blow hards such as myself will chip in.

    • Adz81 on 12/04/2017 - 21:43

      This. Exactly this.

      • Adz81 on 12/04/2017 - 21:43

        The "This" was for mskeggs, just to be super clear.

  • Happy501 on 12/04/2017 - 21:01
    +4

    Is this a troll post?

  • slow on 12/04/2017 - 21:37
    +2

    Wow, I had no idea a car seat needed to be taken somewhere to be installed…when my kids were using them I was constantly moving them between cars etc - reckon it took a couple of minutes each time.

    Would much rather do it myself than some sales assistant in baby bunting or car yard

    • Euphemistic on 13/04/2017 - 07:13

      In NSW you can get your car seat installed by a licenced (or maybe authorised is a better word) person. I did this for our first child's first seat. I paid a few $ and watched how he did it. Initially I wasn't confident to do it properly, despite doing pretty much everything else myself around the house or car. Once I saw how it was done, I then knew enough to do it myself.

      I know someone who is not confident to install a seat and will take it back to the installer each time. Consequently, the seat doesn't get out in and out of his vehicle. On the other hand, I'll pop mine in or out for one 5min trip if necessary.

  • tranter on 12/04/2017 - 21:41
    +1

    I don't know why there is such a judgemental tone in most of the posts here.

    Installing a car seat is not necessarily a simple 10 min job and to get it right is not simple either. If you took a survey and checked a few random car seat installations you would find a large percentage are installed incorrectly.

    In my opinion it can pay to have a professional do it (usually about $40). They will give you some tips at the same time and usually you can go back for free adjustments, checks and advice.

    • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 21:43
      -2

      Thank you! I've asked the mods to shut this down as I'm really surprised at how judgemental some people are being without knowing my situation which I haven't gone into.

  • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 21:52
    -2

    Interesting article on this topic
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2015/12/18/putting-y…

    The professional installer we used for the first car seat (baby Bunting) took a good 15 mins while my wife waited. This particular type of seat is a bit more complicated I think than some others like isofix. I'll certainly want to learn how to do it but wouldn't want to make a mistake.

    It's fairly common place to use installers these days, dependant on lifestyle I guess and the fact we aren't going to take them out much if at all.

    • spackbace on 12/04/2017 - 21:56
      +1

      Best not to quote an American site re: car seats. They're pretty much the reason that ISOFIX came about. From memory the US doesn't use a top tether.

      • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 22:01

        How so, re your comment on isofix coming about from Americans?

        • spackbace on 12/04/2017 - 22:04
          +2

          America doesn't focus on the top tether:

          http://csftl.org/traveling-internationally-with-littles/

          The United States is rather unique in our approach to car seats and cars. We are the only country that requires lower anchors, tethers, AND belts that lock before a crash in our cars (since 2003, 2001, and 1997 model years, respectively). Unlike the rest of the world, the United States and Canada have many car seats that can be installed with a two point belt (lap belt only). North America also has many car seats that allow for an install with either a two point belt, a three-point belt (lap and shoulder belt), or the lower anchors and a tether (or, for rear facing, the lower anchors alone).

          Compare that to our standards, I'd say we're a lot stricter

        • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 22:06

          @Spackbace: that's good to know (that our standards are better). Thanks for the source.

        • tranter on 12/04/2017 - 22:22

          @Spackbace:
          Sweden must be similar to US. When we were there and hired a capsule all they did to secure it was feed the 3 point belt through and around the capsule. The capsule was just sitting on the seat, with no secured base and no tether either. I was shocked!

          This must not be so secure in a rollover event.

          Of all places Sweden, known around the world for leading development in safety standards and technology!

        • spackbace on 12/04/2017 - 22:38
          +1

          @tranter:

          Yeah it's pretty surprising. There's differences in prams too (not major really, in Australia it has to have a hand strap and red brake handle).

    • spackbace on 12/04/2017 - 21:58
      +2

      And FWIW no car seat is 'difficult', they all use a pretty standard hold system with a gap behind the back, or under the butt (for front facing anyway, the guides are labelled for front/rear). Feed the belt through, tighten, and sort out the top tether (which are all very standard).
      Voila

      • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 22:02

        Cool, well having not done it before it's new for me, but like I've said we'll certainly learn. The original point of the post was just our surprise that someone in the trade would do it incorrectly.

        • John Kimble on 12/04/2017 - 22:19
          +1

          Car salesmen aren't really "in the trade" in my opinion. Unless you mean the mechanics at the dealer?

          I have heard you can pay certain mechanics to do it for you?

          My seat had a manual and link to a YouTube video that I watched over and over again till I got the hang of it.

        • bargdebarg on 12/04/2017 - 22:24

          @John Kimble: yes they had one person from their shop that installs them not the sales person

        • John Kimble on 12/04/2017 - 22:38
          +1

          @bargdebarg: ah okay. Yes, I would definitely provide them feedback if I were you and also learn how to do it yourself for future reference (as already mentioned by most people).

          Good luck (with giving the feedback, learning to do it yourself and raising a kid)!

  • altomic on 12/04/2017 - 23:29
    +1

    cable ties will secure the baby seat to the roof easily.

    • airzone on 13/04/2017 - 00:36
      +3

      Duct tape is a universal baby restraint

      • Euphemistic on 13/04/2017 - 07:14

        But Velcro is reusable

  • eve on 13/04/2017 - 02:13
    +2

    If I honestly thought the car salesman knew what they were doing when they agreed to installation as part of the negotiation, and then I realised they did something unsafe, I would also feel quite upset.

    Installation costs $35 here so it does cost money and my OzB-mind would consider it a good deal (if that person made me believe that this was part of their job, and not just a favour).

    I'm interested to know how the idea of installing the car seat came up in the negotiation? Is it a service they offered, or did you ask for it? Is it an official service they claim to provide?

    Whether it is an official service they provide, or one they agreed to do ad hoc "as a favour", I would put my concerns in writing to the dealership. If it is not addressed to my satisfaction (ie they won't offer it ever again or they will get proper training for the installer), then I would escalate it to the head office. My concern would be the safety of other children whose parents may not have the time to fit-check.

    Others have implied that you are trying to offload responsibility for the poor installation onto others, however if you really were, you wouldn't have gotten it checked by your wife and others and this post wouldn't be here. I think the major concern here is that it could be impacting families without them realising.

    Also, I do encourage that you see a proper baby restraint fitter on how to install a car seat - as others have said - it's not super expensive, & they give really great advice on how to know it's been installed securely.

  • Euphemistic on 13/04/2017 - 07:18
    +2

    The OP paid for a service and didn't get it. Something in this case that is a safety issue. The dealer should be notified that the service was not completed. If the dealer is an authorised fitting station (in NSW they should be to do the installation) it's not good enough. If the dealer is not authorised and they should be, then they should be reported and should have told the OP that they couldn't carry out the service requested.

  • timcc0208 on 13/04/2017 - 08:43
    +1

    First, OP should not request the dealer to install the car seat.
    They are not the professional to install it. If OP is not smart enough to do it, go to pay someone in baby centre who installs it everyday with different model.
    Also, the car dealer should not offer it as part of the deal and it should never be.

    • bargdebarg on 13/04/2017 - 09:22

      I have a bad back, nothing to do with my intelligence.

  • Ayedeevee on 13/04/2017 - 09:37
    +1

    Another classic OzBargain storm in a teacup.

    Just call the dealer, explain they got it wrong and you would like it fixed whenever they can manage to fit you in. It won't cost them anything to fix it so they aren't going to complain. Otherwise, take it to a baby store at your own expense and leave the dealer alone. Neither party stands to gain anything from you simply criticising their workmanship.

    The real lesson here is don't expect sympathy from Ozbargain for issues surrounding jobs that didn't require a professional - they'll eat you alive.

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