So I Bought a Couch, but It Isn't Leather

hypie on 01/05/2017 - 23:23
Last edited 03/05/2017 - 06:43

Hey, so I just wanted to gauge opinions and get advice.

Backstory: I bought a couch from A-mart, initially wanted a leather recliner, but saw another couch with gimmicks and fell for it. I was told it was leather by the salesperson, and I probably wouldn't have bought it if I knew otherwise. I have not actually received the couch yet, since it was on backorder and they only just received stock.

Couch 1: $2300 - Real leather, electric recliner, neat.

http://www.superamart.com.au/alberta-57769/

Couch 2: $2200 - Endurocover (fake leather), electric recliner, electric headrest, power points and usb in the middle, cup holders.

http://www.superamart.com.au/millennia-57901/

Is leather really worth losing the gimmicks for? The electric headrest is actually awesome since it lets people with glasses adjust their heads appropriately.

Note: i got the 5 year insurance on both and they both have 10 year warranties.

What do I do? Should I ask for some kind of reimbursement for a blatant lie? (I was fairly confident she said it, but I asked the other two people that I was shopping with and they quoted the exact same thing). "It's 100% leather"… I get it mistakes happen but… no.

RESULT - So I went back and had a bit of a complain. The Alberta is Top grain leather (not full grain, but they advertise it as being 100% leather). I decided this would be a temporary couch and therefore worth the risk. If it breaks it breaks. I like the electronic functions and how they impact viewing/sitting in recline mode. Spoke to a guy there, he offered me another $100 off the couch (which was discounted already), plus gave me another $100 off a table I wanted to buy. He also said I could refund that smartcare product, i'm still tossing it up. I read the terms online and it has a lot of exclusion clauses…

Poll Options

  • 91
    Leather is life
  • 62
    Fake is fine
Home & Garden

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 02/05/2017 - 00:33
    +48

    i got the 3 year insurance on both and they both have 10 year warranties.

    so you scammed into buying a fake leather couch and scammed into insurance for it?

    • woteva on 03/05/2017 - 23:38
      +10

      Does the shop have big windows at the front because they definitely saw you coming…..

    • eneloop on 04/05/2017 - 07:13
      +1

      Have a read of this, Fantastic Furniture got roasted for selling fake leather as real. I bought a couch thinking it was real and it started peeling

      https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/clearer-labelling-for-…

      • dealman on 05/05/2017 - 09:55

        ahaa, Now I know why they gave me a refund, I bought a "leather" Couch from them, and 2 years later it was peeling off badly.. Fought with them threatened to go to the ACCC and got a full refund. THen went and bought an original Leather couch from a Chinese seller local place, been going strong for 5 years, No peeling.

        Guys don't ignore smaller shops.

  • Diji1 on 02/05/2017 - 00:55
    +50

    Why in God's name did you insure a couch lel and pay for a 10 year warranty - let alone the fact that they also sold you a fake leather couch. They got you good, flawless victory.

    • hypie on 02/05/2017 - 01:02
      +3

      I didn't pay for the warranty. I paid for (well actually I got it for free + $100 discount + free delivery). This fabric insurance thing (smartcare) - covers accidental damage to the faux leather… basically within 5 years they will repair it/replace it for free, no matter what.

      I'm gonna admit it… I got done.

      • [Deactivated] on 02/05/2017 - 08:52
        +21

        No matter what*

      • HoneyComb on 02/05/2017 - 09:06
        +5

        be careful with the fabric insurance smart care thing. read this https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=2607871

        • hypie on 02/05/2017 - 09:52

          wow, I just had a read. That is super sus. I'm going back tonight to try get compensation/refund. I will double check on that smartcare thing and get it in writing.

        • greatlamp on 03/05/2017 - 21:20
          +7

          Gerry Harvey ladies and gentlemen

          Lobbies the Aus government to charge us all GST on imports

          Has citizenship in Singapore to dodge tax

        • ChickenTalon on 04/05/2017 - 11:31
          +3

          @rememberme: huh?

          Gerry Harvey….Has citizenship in Singapore

          News to me. Where is the source for that?
          As much as I dislike the man this sounds like an alternative fact.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/05/2017 - 19:17

          @ChickenTalon:

          I can't comment on that exactly, but he does have a store in Singapore that doesn't actually sell anything.

      • Repi on 03/05/2017 - 21:12

        Yeah, warranty is free from them, we got a fabric lounge with 10 years warranty and some super duper fabric protection. First week two of the seats collapsed, no reply from A-mart until we mentioned Fair Trading.
        Some independent repairer assessed the damage and quoted A-Mart. Same thing, no action until we mentioned Fair Trading. The lounge is about 6 month old, we don't expect it to live anywhere near 10 years.
        The plus side is, everything from A-Mart is pretty cheap

  • PJC on 02/05/2017 - 01:01
    +16

    Is leather really worth losing the gimmicks for?

    Yes. Call them and tell them you have decided to upgrade your order and pay the difference. Real leather lasts much longer.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/05/2017 - 19:19
      -1

      But fake leather is going to be better than this bottom of the barrel "real leather"

  • garetz on 02/05/2017 - 01:11
    +18

    The first couch i got, was pleather crap, after 12 months the fake leather started to disintegrate into tiny pieces. I will never buy a non leather product again.

    • hypie on 02/05/2017 - 01:15

      would the fabric insurance make a difference to you?

    • HoneyComb on 02/05/2017 - 09:00

      yes, same experience with me. i will never buy fake leather again. my real leather sofa lasted 15 yrs and it was still in great condition. no shreds after 15 yrs. i gave it away and regretted it. could've used it for a few more yrs. would've lasted me maybe 20 yrs if i didn't give it away

    • zealmax on 04/05/2017 - 17:30

      Similar experience, started to crack after about a year of use. I prefer a nice synthetic fabric couch. Easy to clean and maintain.

    • NBAD25 on 05/05/2017 - 09:48

      Daddy likes leather.

  • ms_caz on 02/05/2017 - 01:16
    +16

    The "real leather" couch won't be real at that price!

    It will almost certainly be some variant of "leather" most likely a bonded or split leather, not a luxurious full grain leather like most people think of when they think about leather as upholstery. However most people don't buy full leather as it is very expensive - most of the leather especially at places like A-mart will be the type you have bought and there's likely to be very little difference between the two items.

    Therefore, since you were obviously attracted by the features of the chair you ordered, just go with it and don't worry about quibbling over such a small price difference.

    FYI https://www.choice.com.au/home-and-living/household/furnitur…

    • hypie on 02/05/2017 - 01:17

      Yeah I did read that article before posting. Annoyed me a little.

    • ssx on 02/05/2017 - 12:21

      +1
      Came here to say this - the "leather" used in these store are usually bonded/bicast leather.

      These days, I wouldn't expect a sofa to last more than 5 years (from places like Amart). We have the millenia and while it isn't pure grain leather, there wasn't a lot of difference in the quality between the alberta and millenia. In fact, the alberta was identical to their microsuede equivalent (can't remember the name), it just has a leather look, and stains/marks would be more noticeable on the 'matt' colouring of the sofa. The millenia feel easier to clean, and as long as you look after it, I think you would get the same mileage out of it as you would the alberta.

      Also, I wouldn't trust what a salesperson tells you. Ask three different people, and you would probably get three different answers, especially at Amart.

      • greatlamp on 03/05/2017 - 21:22

        Part of the problem is that manufactured leather is called 'genuine leather'

        • ssx on 04/05/2017 - 14:33

          for the alberta or millenia?

          If I recall, the millenia said Endurocover or something. Technically, the alberta is genuine leather, just not the expensive grain leather.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/05/2017 - 19:20

          @ssx:

          Hint: real leather feels soft and floppy like a chamois.

  • 2jzzzz on 02/05/2017 - 06:31
    +1

    Where are people buying their furniture from these days? I'm looking for a 4 seat couch with a right hand facing chaise.

    • jjjaar on 02/05/2017 - 07:19
      +2

      IKEAs Norsborg is really nice and modular so you buy the sections you want and set up how you want. They have chaise sections, corner sections, a two seater and a three seater. (Probably more too)

      • tebbybabes on 02/05/2017 - 12:04

        +1

        I'm a fan of the Norsborg as well. Not just the modularity or the looks but the seating position as well. I personally find that it has the right amount of "give" in a couch. I don't actually like it when I sink all the way into a sofa.

    • kingsville on 02/05/2017 - 13:23
      +2

      I went to plush

    • John Kimble on 02/05/2017 - 16:13

      King

      • try2bhelpful on 03/05/2017 - 16:29

        +1 on King and the "sales" are continuous. If you pick the right time you can get the floor stock with it signficantly discounted. My King leather couches are great and the floor stock normally has the best leather.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/05/2017 - 19:21

          I think the discounts are a sham and check feedback on the store, it is very poor. Plenty of people like yourself say the floor stock is better quality - that is a blatent contravention of consumer law.

    • ilikeradiohead on 03/05/2017 - 16:47
      +11

      Side of the road.

    • MrMister on 04/05/2017 - 12:13
      +1

      In true OzBargain spirit, I enjoy hunting for furniture at Auctions. Not sure where you're from mate, but where I'm from (Sydney), there's quite a few. Plenty of good quality stuff: some second hand stuff, some barely used, some FACTORY NEW with surface damage). For anyone reading this who knows more than me, correct me if I'm wrong, but I do see the odd leather couch every now and then.

      Best thing is : ROCK BOTTOM PRICES (usually)

      I picked up a 3 seater and 2 seater (If I remember it was valued at $6K+ ) for $500 in 2014. All these collectors at the auctions who didn't give a **** about second-hand leather couches hahahahahaha.

      TIP: Although there's online bidding now for many auction houses, I strongly recommend going in person to inspect the actual couch. Some couches could have spring damage, which'll screw up your spine!

      • Tpyin on 04/05/2017 - 15:36

        Where in Sydney?

    • redpump on 05/05/2017 - 16:09

      We bought our couch from BLR (Bay Leather Republic). They are very transparent with what type and colour leather you want on which chair. I got the Grand Lodge with a full grain grey/white colour leather. They also have top grain and corrected grain leather, which are slightly cheaper.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/05/2017 - 19:23

        BLR = freedom. They don't exist anymore do they?

        • redpump on 05/05/2017 - 19:27
          +1

          https://www.bayleather.com.au/stores/
          Auburn, Alexandria, Moore Park, Balgowlah, Castle Hill and Belrose in NSW. They have stores in VIC, QLD, SA and WA

          We got our couch when they were having a 30% discount.

  • DarkOz on 02/05/2017 - 06:53
    +3

    Both couches $2k won't be real leather. Even most expensive cars with leather seats are not real leather. Real leather is too expensive. They are always some kind of variant of leather.

    If the couch you had ordered looks good and feels good it won't do you any harm knowing that you have warranty.

  • chumlee on 02/05/2017 - 07:22
    +1

    Super A Mart mostly sell bonded leather thereby keeping costs down and profits up

    • cnrmlj on 04/05/2017 - 16:15

      A mart is cheap too. You get what you pay for like most things in life (except Amex cash back, the mind boggles on that one and eBay 20% off sales).

      Anyway, we bought some stools from them that required assembly and the screws kept threading and wouldn't fit together. Took them back and got my money back. Went across the road and paid a bit more for some already assembled stools. They are great. Would never shop at a mart again.

  • poboy on 02/05/2017 - 07:25
    +4

    My understanding is that there are various grades of leather. So you need to not only verify that it's real leather, but that it's decent leather. The Checkout did something on it.

  • afoveht on 02/05/2017 - 07:33
    -6

    PU may have certain advantages over leather, including resilience to moisture/damp. But in the end I doubt you'll notice any difference between them with regards to their longevity - the whims of fashion most likely will wear quicker than either choice.

    There's no doubt animal skins were useful to us humans over our history before we had the types of material technology we now have but seriously, what an outdated idea for a material. Most modern use of leather is based on mindless nostalgia/tradition rather than a need for particular technical specifications. There is nothing objectively "opulent" about it and when you consider the treatment process there is nothing "natural" about it either. Various performance aspects of leather could be replicated by willing consumers and modern science if people really wanted them. Killing animals for something to rest our arses on is a totally unnecessary mistreatment of animals.

    • dasher86 on 02/05/2017 - 08:19
      +5

      this thread is about a couch not about the mistreatment of animals.
      stop pushing your ideals on other people.

      • Baysew on 02/05/2017 - 08:28
        +2

        The OP did ask -

        Is leather really worth losing the gimmicks for?

        So thevofa comment can be taken as a no.

        • rompastompa on 02/05/2017 - 09:17
          +1

          The cows aren't still walking around with their coats off, are they??

          I've always wondered why leather isn't more common due to the amount of cows/goats, etc that that we eat.

        • ChrisLevo on 02/05/2017 - 09:19
          +6

          Leather is not about the mistreatment of animals.

          It is a natural by-product of our evolution as omnivores who eat meat.

          Shall we show disrespect to the animal whose meat we eat by throwing away their skin?

        • [Deactivated] on 02/05/2017 - 12:18
          +1

          @thevofa:

          Why use fire to cook when you can use a light bulb? Your analogy is silly and I won't even bother logically debating why we use light bulbs instead of an open flame.

          Want to suggest anything that has the same/more protein, taste and value as beef (I'll gladly replace that in my diet).

        • afoveht on 02/05/2017 - 13:05
          -7

          @lolbbq: without even thinking a further second about it, soy or peanuts have more protein than cattle flesh and are cheaper. Taste is subjective but I've even had soy products that taste like bbqd flesh. Gimme 5 min and I'll give you a list of 100 foods with more protein than beef. (Actually no I won't because I won't be bothered entertaining your capricious urges - perhaps you should Google for 5min next time before you hit reply)

        • Gronk on 02/05/2017 - 13:19
          +5

          @thevofa:

          You said it yourself - taste is subjective - and while you claim to have had soy products that taste just like bbq'ed flesh I'm yet to taste a meat alternative that doesn't taste horrid.

        • afoveht on 02/05/2017 - 13:23

          @Gronk: Fine. But I'm not sure what sort of priority or equivalence your taste buds have over/with the very life and experience of another sentient being.

        • Gronk on 02/05/2017 - 13:25
          +4

          @thevofa:

          I'm exceptionally comfortable with my place at the top of the food chain :)

        • afoveht on 02/05/2017 - 13:30
          -3

          @Gronk: I can't argue with someone who thinks with their taste buds. So all the best to you.

        • Gronk on 02/05/2017 - 13:58
          +3

          @thevofa:

          I'd say the same thing about people who argue with their hearts and not their heads ;)

          All the best and a good day to you.

        • afoveht on 02/05/2017 - 14:16
          -4

          @Gronk: if I had to accept a charge of not using my head I'd much rather it be due to following my heart than my taste buds, so thank you for that.

        • callum9999 on 03/05/2017 - 14:27
          +2

          @Gronk: What a bizarre comment… While their initial rant was pointless (pretty much everyone who eats meat knows full well they cause suffering, they just don't care - making a discussion on the matter pointless), you aren't arguing using your head either.

      • dasher86 on 02/05/2017 - 15:38
        +3

        *grabs popcorn

      • Krizy on 03/05/2017 - 14:37

        So you want to say that leather being overrated isn't relevant in a discussion about a leather couch? Seems like you're the one pushing a political agenda.

        • dasher86 on 03/05/2017 - 16:13

          no political agenda.
          reply from thevofa should had stopped here if it were just being relevant to leather. but user continues…

          PU may have certain advantages over leather, including resilience to moisture/damp. But in the end I doubt you'll notice any difference between them with regards to their longevity - the whims of fashion most likely will wear quicker than either choice…Various performance aspects of leather could be replicated by willing consumers and modern science

    • tebbybabes on 02/05/2017 - 12:12

      I like cows just fine.

      I like beef.

      I like leather goods.

      I definitely DON'T feel like I'm contributing to the mistreatement of animals.

      That being said, there are synthetics that are just a luxurious and long lasting as the real thing. Alcantara comes to mind.

    • Gronk on 02/05/2017 - 13:12

      Has it ever occurred to you that one of the primary reasons Cows continue to thrive nowadays is because humans like to eat them?

      Tell me again how we're so cruel?

      • afoveht on 02/05/2017 - 13:21
        +1

        Has it ever occured to you that you would live longer if you were locked up in a padded cell and were intravenously fed a slurry of optimal nutritional value while in a forced coma? Tell me why that's so cruel.

        I think that's about as relevant.

        • Gronk on 02/05/2017 - 13:26
          +2

          Oh? You have documented proof of that?

          Cmon mate, your lefty rhetoric is bordering on nonsensical.

        • afoveht on 02/05/2017 - 13:36

          @Gronk: Making informed decisions to spare animals from completely unnecessary pain and suffering is lefty? I thought it was just decency.

        • Gronk on 02/05/2017 - 13:58
          +2

          @thevofa:

          No, it's left because you're coming from a place of emotion, not reason.

        • afoveht on 02/05/2017 - 14:24
          +1

          @Gronk: sparing animals uneccesary pain and suffering when there are limitless alternatives is not reasonable? Again I think we are at an impasse.

        • tetra on 03/05/2017 - 14:22
          +1

          @thevofa: Surely you should focus on sparing humans unnecessary pain and suffering before animals.

          Not that you would have any impact on either…

        • afoveht on 03/05/2017 - 15:39
          +1

          @tetra: I'm fine with that. But how is boycotting leather couches or steaks unnecessary pain and suffering?

        • unelectric on 03/05/2017 - 16:05
          +3

          @tetra: People can simultaneously care about two issues at the same time

        • try2bhelpful on 03/05/2017 - 16:45
          +1

          @thevofa: there aren't limitless alternatives, I think you may be resorting to hyperbole here. However, using cheap products that don't biodegrade to create furniture only wastes resources and increases the rubbish in landfills. Frankly, the planet was a lot better off when we didn't have all the petrochemical based products we have today and mainly used plant and animal based products.

        • afoveht on 03/05/2017 - 16:57

          @try2bhelpful: Don't by cheap products then - there are expensive and high performance synthetics available. Or buy a couch made of plant materials. Animal ag is arguably the biggest single contributor to greenhouse gas emissions and degradation of the natural environment; your bucolic fantasy is an impossibility within a consumeristic society.

          http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM

        • try2bhelpful on 03/05/2017 - 17:17

          @thevofa: So how biodegradable are your synthetics? When we finally crash the planet the plastics will still be around for thousands of years. The last part to degrade on cars are the tyres. The real problem in the world is too many humans. So which group of humans do you want to bump off first?

        • afoveht on 03/05/2017 - 17:38

          @try2bhelpful: You keep deviating. Make yourself happy and settle on a biodegradable couch - there are options that do not use leather and only plant materials. And you keep dodging the fact that animal ag is arguably the most destructive industry on the planet, including by far the biggest portion of petrochemicals use in all agriculture. Every day you eat or otherwise create demand for animal products you are causing an order of magnitude more damage to the natural environment than if you used plants and created demand for more technologically innovative solutions. No need to bump anyone off - the carrying capacity of the earth would be quadrupled if we boycotted animal ag. If you are actually concerned about the natural environment there is no single more effective and zero cost option than boycotting animal products. Read my link above. And the one below. Google and educate yourself.

          http://www.livescience.com/16493-people-planet-earth-support…

  • HoneyComb on 02/05/2017 - 08:49
    +7

    that real leather sofa is most likely bonded leather which is the lowest quality of real leather. bonded leather is using strips of unwanted pieces of real leather and sticking them together with glue.

    That said. Based on my own experience. I don't think i would buy fake leather for anything ever again. Every fake leather piece i've owned all end up being torn to shreds after a 1-2 yrs of heavy use.

    The one real leather item i owned was a sofa I've owned for 15 yrs. I purchased it in the yr 2000 and it lasted 15 yrs. it probably could've last 20 yrs if i didn't give it away. it was in heavy use and even had someone sleeping on the sofa every day for a several months and leather did not split or crack. In 2015 after 15 yrs of use including someone sleeping on it for months. there was finally a small 1 inch sized crack at the cushion seam.

    After owning the sofa for 15 yrs. i decided i wanted to purchase a new sofa so in 2015, i gave it away even though it was still in great condition and could be used for several more yrs and i regretted it.

    i wanted something new and fancy looking and real leather was out of my budgey so i bought a sofa with fake leather and it lasted 18 months before it started to shred

    i now just purchased another sofa. the sofa i just purchased is real leather and $3000 for a small 2 seat sofa. i did my research and the leather is not bonded. currently waiting for it to be delivered.

    just based on my experience. i would never buy fake leather ever again. horrible quality. will shred after 2 yrs of heavy use.

  • altomic on 02/05/2017 - 09:38
    +1

    There was a used moran couch on ebay a month ago in Melb. it went for <$100. full leather . rub on leather food every couple of years and it would last a life time.

  • Geekomatic on 02/05/2017 - 13:28
    +3

    Whatever happened to good "foam rubber", reversible cushions, ffs?

    Now, it seems that even the more expensive chairs/sofas/lounges use either light-weight cr*p that crushes down quickly, or stitched to the platform so non-reversible.

    :(

  • MeesusEff on 03/05/2017 - 11:28

    Not 100% relevant but i am also looking at buying an Amart couch, and its classified fabric. Has anyone had one of these type and can comment on how its holding up after a few years of use?

    http://www.superamart.com.au/lounges-sofas/corner-lounges/sa…

  • Gronk on 03/05/2017 - 15:35

    Insurance on a warranty?

    We just treated our new lounge with scotchguard, from memory was around $20 per tin, never had an issue.

  • scbrother on 03/05/2017 - 15:41

    Dont buy a couch for electrical gimmicks

  • unelectric on 03/05/2017 - 16:03

    I've been thinking about how bizarre leather couches are. It would be totally barbaric to have a human-skin couch but cows-skin seems to raise no qualms.

    • try2bhelpful on 03/05/2017 - 16:40

      There is a slight difference between cows and humans. If people are going to eat cows then also using the hide is a sensible idea. Leather couches last decades, the plastic crap they cover cheap sofas with lasts a lot less time - so resources are wasted building them and the landfills get choked with discarded rubbish that does not biodegrade.

      • Krizy on 03/05/2017 - 23:11

        This reasoning could also apply to human skin couches and human meat.

      • PizzaBoy on 10/05/2017 - 23:05

        They don't use the hide from beef cattle for leather though.

    • greatlamp on 03/05/2017 - 21:30

      It isn't skin anymore once it has been treated, even if it has the same shape. It is also better for the environment to buy something that will last longer than 2 years.

    • youmademethisway on 04/05/2017 - 09:34

      You mean like how it would be totally barbaric to eat human flesh, and yet we consume beef without any qualms.
      Not even close to being the same thing.

      • unelectric on 04/05/2017 - 10:44

        I wasn't referring to carnivorism, but curiously, why is cannibalism and eating cows different?

        • ssyl9 on 04/05/2017 - 18:04

          Cows and sheep and some other animals we eat are not smart enough to understand their purpose in life (scientifically proven). They lived happily if they can actually eat, sleep well.

          Not all farms are cruel to animals. Actually studies show that well treated animals tastes a lot better which is now how they are treated in first world countries.

          now coming back to why don't we eat humans, cats ,dogs. Because organisms like these have enough brain capacity to understand their meaning of life. If they are in a meat production line waiting to be big enough to be slaughtered they will actually know and live a life of fear. These organisms actually feel fear for the future, unlike the simpler brained organisms who only live for now.

          Does that explain?

        • unelectric on 04/05/2017 - 19:02

          @ssyl9: So taking your logic and running with it, are babies and disabled people OK to eat? Pigs, for example, have greater intelligence than a 3 year old toddler (and dogs). That should definitely disqualify them from food status, right?

          I realise I am being purposefully obtuse, I'd just like to see some logical consistency. If you say that dogs are not OK to eat because they are intelligent, but pigs are actually more intelligent then dogs, but they are OK to eat, then there is some serious mental gymnastics going on.

        • ssyl9 on 05/05/2017 - 12:54

          I mean if you wanna eat them by all means.

          There is a reason even animals don't even eat the same kind and if you don't even want to be an animal.. well yea go for it.

          If you say that dogs are not OK to eat because they are intelligent, but pigs are actually more intelligent then dogs, but they are OK to eat

          I am not a scientist to debate which animal is smarter. However, I am sceptical that pigs are more intelligent than dogs as their learning behaviour are much worse than a dogs, they also don't look like having a sense of purpose of what their life is about as long as there are things to eat. We have heard dogs developing depression, anxiety and such to not eat/play due to mental issues. I have yet to hear a case where a pig stops eating because of any mental issues.

          It is not rocket science. I treat different animals differently. I treat dogs, cats as companions, and I treat cows, sheep, pigs as food. Much like in animal kingdoms that some animals treat others as companions and other as food. You don't get asking why crocs don't eat the bird who cleans their teeth.

          some people still eat dogs and cats. As these are companions in my eyes who are capable to understand and live with us and smart enough to feel fear, depression and anxiety, it is sensible for me to think they shouldn't be consumed.

          Going back to the question

          why is cannibalism and eating cows different?

          because you will be degrading to less of an animal as even predators don't eat their own kind unless starvation.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2017 - 16:58
    +1

    Bring back vinyl.

  • voiletmay on 03/05/2017 - 17:08

    Leather couches also seem to have good resell value. Many years ago we got a white leather lounge suite for $500 from an Opshop. 5 years later we were moving house and sold it for $500 LOL!! White was a bugger to clean and always looked grubby though, so I would go for a different colour.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2017 - 17:52

    Had a fake leather couch and nothing could be done when it fails and starts to crack or split thats it.

    I have a full grain leather couch recliner which I condition once a year and it is bloody fantastic.
    Kids food = no problems
    Kids spew = no problems
    Kids poo = no problems

    • Kangal on 03/05/2017 - 23:01

      My poo = ?

      • [Deactivated] on 04/05/2017 - 20:29
        +1

        You're dead

  • JimmyF on 03/05/2017 - 18:52
    +1

    leather isn't leather in most cases……

    • frostman on 03/05/2017 - 21:28

      I bought my 3 seater from Freedom, 100% full grain leather.

      The living room smelt on leather for 4 weeks, that's how you know it's leather…but there's a premium

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