Hola Ozbees , I was looking to buy a car so I shortlisted a few on Gumtree.
I gave some offer and one of the seller responded accepting my offer for 3K less ( than the asking price) ( asking price @16K) but mentioned I have to pay in cash.
My response was i would pay by bank transfer but i got a response back saying I could buy either with bank cheque or cash only.
What could go wrong if i buy using bank cheque or cash and not thru bank transfer.
Leave your suggestions and comments.
Buying Car - with Cash
Dpkmax on 07/06/2017 - 20:15
Last edited 07/06/2017 - 22:16
Last edited 07/06/2017 - 22:16
Comments
do a revs check, if it checks out then go ahead. Sounds a bit iffy and might be after a deposit to flog from you. I'd avoid personally.
Buying a $3000 car with cash is very routine.
If somebody was going to rob you, surely they would hope for a little more to make the potential jail sentence worth it?
I gave some offer and one of the seller responded accepting my offer for 3K less but mentioned i have to pay in cash
The punctuation is missing, but I read it as 3k less than what he offered??? So sale price has not been disclosed in this post.
But a seller agreeing to sell for 3k less than a buyer offers sounds weird in itself, so I dunno…
Hmm, I misread, thank you.
I suppose if it is an $80k Mercedes investment vehicle that might be a bit unreasonable/risky.@John it's 3K less than the asking price.
@Dpkmax: Yeah, so you offered 16k and out of the goodness of his heart said you can have it for 13k if you pay in cash? Did you ask why? The 3k (19%) "voluntary" discount is the red flag to me, not that he wants cash or bank cheque…
Either the world's worst negotiator or something wrong with it or something else I can't think of..
@John Kimble The asking price was 16K and I offered 13K , which was accepted however with condition that I pay in cash or bank cheque. Yes you are correct 3K discount is red flag that's why I thought why not ask the OzB community as to what could go wrong .
@Dpkmax: Oh, ok, sorry not as bad as I initially thought then. A seller would normally list a bit higher for negotiation room. So that might be fine then? Still, make sure you get the appropriate vehicle background and mechanical checks done I guess?
@John Kimble: >something else I can't think of
"STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE … FREEZE DIRT BAG, ATO UNDERCOVER"
@mskeggs Post updated its actually 3K less than the asking price.
……………………
I would assume they are just wary of a reversal of the transfer.
I don't think a bank cheque is unreasonable but I would definitely do a PPSR check in any event.Cash only request is entirely reasonable. Bank transfer and cheque are more risky for seller.
Why do you consider bank cheque risky? Do you mean the bank cheque might be forged? I consider bank cheque to the safer than cash.
Bank cheque can be cancelled by the ver very easily.
Even if you do not have the original cheque? I dont think so.
@Euphemistic:
Did you get it cancelled or reissued?
I know you can get a new one issues to the same name as the original.
But you cant change the name or cancel it if you don't have the original.
Are you talking about a bank cheque or a normal cheque. Very different things. Once you have paid for a bank cheque the idea is that it's as good as guaranteed cash for the buyer. If you could just cancel them that would defeat the purpose..
@wozz: bank cheque. I had one issued for a deposit for a house. The real estate 'lost' it. Maybe the difference was that I had it reissued, but it was still very easy to cancel it.
@wozz: I work at a major bank and have worked for banks for 10 years. I can confirm it is NOT as good as guaranteed cash for the buyer and the cheques can be cancelled. This is a common misconception. Bank cheques even take the normal 3 days to clear and can be cancelled in that time.
@Xastros:
Wow ok just read more… so if the seller rings the issuing bank to verify its still valid, they probably have a much better chance of everything being ok..I didnt realise it was so easy to say its been stolen
@wozz: It's not that easy but it is possible. It is still relatively safe which is why property settlements around Australia rely on bank cheques. Car dealers routinely accept bank cheques as well. There is still a risk someone steals a blank bank cheque though.
3k isn't too much for a cash transaction. Twice in the last 6 months I've received $3k in cash selling a car and camper.
If you are worried about carrying that much cash, $3k of $50 notes is only about 1cm thick, so readily fits in a pocket etc and can be easily concealed.
Some people don't like giving out bank details, and a bank cheque can be reversed pretty easily. Getting cash is a sure fire way of receiving your money when you sell something.
I think he meant 3k less than the asking price.
Good point, missed that. Taking $3k off seems like the price might be a lot more. I'm not sure I'd want to carry more than about $10k.
@dennis3107 Yes that's correct
Agreed. If I was the seller, I'd want cash too.
Do the PPSR check.@mskeggs Thanks for the suggestion. I was not knowing about the PPSR check but then after reading your comment I googled and found out Personal Properties Security Register. Yes that's a good point.
Bank transfers can be reversed, cheques can be cancelled also so sometimes when paying by bank cheque they might request you meet them at the bank so they can confirm it clears. It's fair enough
Really can bank transfers be reversed?
With fraud, the sending bank can request it back and send an indemnity, but the receiving bank still has to agree, usually if they can tell it's fraud and the receiving account still has the funds in there (as far as I'm aware) they will.
Not sure if this situation qualifies.
Can bank cheque be cancelled without the actual cheque? I don't think so.
Yeah bank check is basically as good as cash, its very hard to cancel without the cheque. But it can only be deposited in the persons account thats listed - so you know who they are before anyway. Ive always tried to use bank cheques when possible and theyre the best option IMO
It isn't hard to cancel a bank cheque. I had to cancel one and issue a new one when a real estate lost a deposit cheque I gave them. Cost me about $20 to cancel the lost cheque.
When you cancel a bank cheque however you are not exactly cancelling it, youre putting a stop on it. If it has already been deposited then it cant be cancelled (but the benefit is that it can only be cashed by the persons whos name is on the cheque), but if someone attempts to deposit a bank cheque with a stop on it then there will be an investigation as bank cheques are only meant to be stopped if lost/stolen (or returned)
Assuming the car is not a dud, then my only concern I would have is being robbed (by the seller, an aquantaince of the seller or a complete random on the way to/from) haha.
Take a mate with you I suppose or meet in public…
But maybe there might be more worldly people out there that have other thoughts, I've only ever sold a car on Gumtree and it was for less than 5k cash…I was worried about counterfeit notes haha
With bank transfer it takes time to clear. Bank cheque is quit safe in my opinion.
You appear to be looking at it from a seller perspective. OP is asking from a buyer perspective.
I still don't see any issues from buyers perspective about bank cheque except that it might cost about $50.
Fair enough. I agree anyway.
Just get a bank cheque.
this sounds normal. asking prices are always high, offers are always low, and 3k isnt an unreasonable gap or you shouldnt have offered it
as for the cash, ive only ever bought and sold in cash for private sales. largest figure was about $13k, but mums gone a few higher on a saleits not for any dodgy reason, its just a reliable and easy way to be certain about the payment. less chance of fraud etc, and rather not take chances with large sums. this is also due to me not being fully aware of the potential risks with each payment method, and i wouldnt know what a fake bank cheque looked like
not that any sales have been made with suspicious people anyway, i would probably do it inside the bank if i had any doubtsas long as they seem okay and you do all your due diligence, check their details and id for ownership etc, and hand the money over in a safe place, should be fine. important thing is that both sides feel comfortable with how the sale is made
A bank cheque is definitely the way to go if the seller offered that.
And definitely before you spend $13k on a car pay the few hundred it costs to get:
- Financial/ownership checks
- REVs check
- Mechanical inspection
The amount of people who think $10k+ for a car is a bargain but spending a few hundred on a proper mechanical inspection is a waste of money is crazy. That one inspection could save you years of hassle, inconvenience and expense.
Also, make sure either yourself or the seller puts together a quick Agreement of Sale document that outlines the basics (their name, your name, that there are no outstanding monies on the car, no known mechanical faults, the price and then both date/sign it).
My main concern is that OP is making offers on cars sight-unseen. And on Gumtree, no less. A great way to end up with a lemon.
All sellers will list at a higher price than they want fully expecting a buyer to negotiate down, so the acceptance of $3k less than list price doesn't raise any red flags for me. Accepting cash or bank cheque is pretty standard for a car sale and has been for years. I wouldn't take bank transfer either as it does have the possibility of being reversed out. The seller is simply acting prudently in this case. Cash vs bank cheque vs bank transfer are all the same thing ultimately to a buyer (apart from convenience), you need the cash in the bank beforehand regardless.
Check ownership of or finance owing on the car before you finalise the deal. I always get a RACV inspection check done on any secondhand car too. It's worth it even if the car is near new. They can identify any potential problems or future expediture required and give a recommendation whether to buy, use caution or run. If a seller won't agree to one, there is your sign to back away.
totally agree!
Sounds like he is scared of being scammed by you, which is understandable. When I bought a car a while back we met at his bank - I had a back check which he deposited with me there and confirmed all was OK and filled in and signed a receipt that I had pre-prepared.
As a seller of a car recently via carsales.com.au a few points that can help if you are spending 13k:
1. Ensure there is RWC provided, no RWC, no purchase.
2. Do your RACV, Ownership, Stolen, Accident history (total loss) check, or ask the seller to provide.
3. Pay by Bank Cheque if seller is willing to accept, but expect to pick up the car only once payment is cleared.
4. Take a copy of the receipt from seller (ideally signed by both of you)As for the price, have you checked what other similar cars are being sold for by both Private sellers and Dealers ? If his asking is 16k, but accepting 13k may not be enough to doubt the car's quality. Who knows, dealers may have offered 10k, so you are offering him 3k more, and maybe he wants to make a quick sale. Hope this is helpful and good luck with your purchase.
Agree that bank cheque or cash is the way to go for a seller on Gumtree - sadly you can't trust people…. Even a bank cheque is also risky unless you wait 3 days or so for it to clear - the buyer can give you the bank cheque then for $30 or so claim it was lost and it will be dishonored.
So a seller asking for cash or a bank cheque is basically not an indication they are dodgy. Definitely do the checks on the vehicle first though.
The bank cheque wont be cancelled, there will be a stop placed on it. The bank will then investigate the situation as bank cheques are only meant to be stopped if lost/stolen.
True… but you are still in the hands of the bank making the call in your favour. You can also pay extra for an overnight clearance in some cases….. but bank cheque fraud is an issue (eg http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2002/s510503.htm - an old article but still valid I suspect), meaning that if you are the seller you could end up with a worthless piece of paper - again, like bqjt notes above, why the seller should wait for it to clear before handing over the goods. As a buyer though, if the seller is happy to take a bank cheque then all good.
"But we did learn that over the past few years, nearly 3,000 blank bank cheques have been stolen from two of the banks."
Yep 4 days clearance for bank cheques from now on.
Cash is reasonable, how hard is it to print off a realistic looking banked cheque, a lot easier than cash I would suspect. I remember hearing a scam that was involving banked cheques but can't remember exactly what it was, I think it might have been that banks will print you off a normal cheque which most would assume is the traditional banked cheque when it actually wasn't and is easily cancellable.
They're probably easier to forge than cash, but last time I saw a bank cheque it had embossing and UV ink. So it's not like you can just do it on your normal office printer.
I know what cash looks like, I have no idea every different bank and credit unions banked cheque should look like however.
You turn up with cash and get robbed.
In this situation I have met the seller at the bank and withdrawn the cash and completed the transaction in the branch
LOL where do you live, Redfern? Don't rock up with a fat wad of cash in hand… hide it in your car, at least!
Cash guarantee's they receive and have the money instantly with no fuss.
Nothing wrong with it
BELIEVE YOUR GUTS.
Cash is king.
For all the cars I've sold, my most loathed message is 'what's ya best price for cash?' Cash is all I'm taking, mate! Cash is safe. I don't take cheques, a bank transfer isn't instant, I don't accept cards and I don't offer credit.
Do you know how to identify if a bank cheque is legitimate? Do you even know what one looks like? I certainly know what a fat stack of pineapples looks like though.
Pay cash. The seller is being entirely reasonable in this request.
People are scamming other with buying cars by showing a fake bank transfer webpage on their laptop they take with them. I heard of someone that tried this with a 60k HSV Grange. Seller luckily kept checking his account and saying no when the guy kept insisting he drive away because he couldn't see the money in his account.
Also you can reverse a bank transfer quite easily in the first 5-30 minutes or so. After that, the recipient account holder has to agree.
Nothing wrong with asking for cash or a bank cheque.
In years past when I used to sell cars, I routinely sold cars worth $20K-$30K+ only accepting bank cheque or cash.
Personal cheques are worthless, so is any electronic transfer imo as it leaves the seller too exposed to scammers.
Naturally do your due diligence as with any purchase (mechanical check, PPSR check), but a seller asking for cash or a bank cheque doesn't set off any alarms for me.
Bank cheque has to have his exact name on it so I see no problem with that.
Obviously do your vicroads/whatever checks for stolen or outstanding finance.If you pay cash make sure to get a receipt, or there is no documentation of the transaction. He could rob you or claim you stole the car.
The rego transfer papers will suffice as a receipt, and funnily enough, they are used to transfer ownership from one party to the other too.
Thanks for the sarcasm. Maybe the transfer papers work that way in your state, but not in mine. I'm sure you're right though, its probably better not to get a receipt for your cash.😋
Ive been told its a culture thing.
I was shocked when recently buying and selling cars to people in Western Sydney that this "Cash" thing kept coming up. I dont live in Western Sydney and Cash hadnt come up since i was 17 and our cars were worth $2k.
I asked a close friend of my who is from Liverpool and of Lebanese background, he said this is perfectly normal in his circles and definitely didnt necessarily mean anything dodgy was going on.Hold on, did you even inspect the vehicle?! Or are you an agent for a friend working in the oilfields?
Ownership isn't transferred until you sign the rego transfer papers.
Ways to protect yourself :Do a ppsr check few dollars will let you know what's up with ownership.and incumberances.
Being suspicious is good, however taking 3k less on a 16k price would be common.
Offer a deposit in cash if they want say $400 refundable if sale doesn't go through, and the balance conditional to a mechanics checking over of the vehicle, or forget the deposit just say you want it 100% and you are coming for a look, I did this recently bought a 2nd hand hilux for 28k. Paid my mechanic to go to the sellers house and spend an hour looking over it, then spoke to mechanic and simply asked him would you buy it ? He said yes so I proceeded, had he said no I would have walked away.
Say the sale proceedes, and you are still suspicious, meet at a place where a Justice of the peace is on duty and complete the transaction in front of them. It will only take a few minutes. Or the front desk of you local police station, use services you pay for in your taxes.
Hope it all goes well.
Do the standard checks on the car to make sure it's not stolen and there is finance owing on it.
Arrange for an RACQ (or whatever equivalent for your state) independent assessment at your cost (the mechanics are good, they go to where the car is and do an assessment with a pretty detailed report) and lets you know of any problems. If they say no to this then this should set off alarm bells. Its roughly around $200+ but will give you piece of mind.
TLDR: Just cover all your bases and it should be fine to pay cash.
I did all this when buying my car 4 years ago and I paid 9K cash (negotiated down from 12). Car has been no issues.
I've purchased nearly every car my family has owned via Bank cheque. It is as good as cash but only available to the name of the seller that you provide. They only cost about $10 and it means you don't have to take tens of thousands of dollars in your pocket to buy the car.
Definitely do a PPSR check beforehand and a mechanical inspection if you are unsure.
An electronic transfer can be reversed, I've only paid a deposit via this method before and screenshot the payment and sent to them as proof.
Good luck.
I've purchased my 2013 model Fiat 500 in 2015 through Gumtree using cash. They asked for $9500 and I bargained them down to $9000 because I offered cash.
Having Margin of $3000 on gumtree add or even on carsales sounds fishy to me.
I personally never had issue with cash, or bank check with any buyer or seller. But make sure:
- Run PPSR check (in VIC, seller can sell a car with finance on it by cheating and you will not know until you get a knock on your door for possession) Vicroad system not linked to PPSR.
- ensure seller is rightful owner of the selling vehicle
- Get someone to inspect the car (friend did 3 inspections of car and all found accidental, some reported some none but mechanic picked it up)
It is close to 20% so yeah, I thought it was a bit odd…usually there's a bit of back and forth negotiating, not just a "yeah sure". haha
Ya normally it's around 500-1000 depending around cost of vehicle. And for expensive cars like this, preferred platform is carsales than gumtree.
This is a simple one: You give him the cash, he gives you the key. You drive away, he calls police to say his car, witch he left keys inside has been stolen. Police stops you, you say you bought it, police asks where is contract and receipt, you don't have it, you are a THIEF.
you have:
Signed Rego transfer papers
bank withdrawal papers for that 16,000
and Gumtree/SMS communication
Gumtree is training ground for scam artists
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/motorbike-thief-hatches-fa…
The seller sets the conditions of the sale. You should walk away from this transaction if you don't agree with the conditions.