Speeding Fine - Requesting The Alleged Speed Be Reduced by 1KM/H

yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 14:57
Last edited 28/08/2017 - 15:50

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know if it's possible to request the alleged speed on the fine be reduced by a small amount - in this case 1KM/H.

My fine is for driving 100KM/H in a 80KM/H zone.

This puts me in the exceeding the limit by 20-29KM/H bracket - which is $400 and 3 demerit points.

Where as if the alleged speed was 1KM/H less, I'd be in the 10-19KM/H bracket - which is $200 and 2 demerit points.

Has anyone had any experience making this type of request in the past, or does anyone know if this is possible or not?

It's worth noting I'm in WA if it makes a difference.

Thanks!

UPDATE:

Sad news friends.

In WA the recorded speed is reduced by 1KM/H for speeds between 0-100KM/H and 2KM/H for speeds over 100KM/H.

Meaning my detected speed was actually 102KM/H and not on the border between the two brackets like I thought.

It's also it's worth noting all infringement penalties and allocated demerit points are set by legislation, and therefore, cannot be altered. WA Police have no authority to alter or override this legislation.

Someone hold me :(

I hope this is helpful for future readers though.

Automotive

closed Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 21/08/2017 - 15:03
    +268

    lol

    • riddick4 on 21/08/2017 - 21:12
      +5

      Ummm……Is this guy serious?

      • [Deactivated] on 21/08/2017 - 22:06
        +1

        You should direct your question to the OP

        • yolohobo on 22/08/2017 - 15:31
          +4

          I authorise you to act on my behalf.

        • jaypick on 23/08/2017 - 11:01
          +4

          @sipitai:

          Hi OP, nice to meet you.

          I'm going to use your defense when I get charged for murder. I'm going to ask the judge if it can be downgraded to manslaughter since manslaughter is only 25 years whereas murder is up to life.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2017 - 11:28

          Why wouldn't you?

        • yolohobo on 23/08/2017 - 13:23
          +2

          Yeah go for it. You have my blessing.

          Wait… you're not going to murder me are you?

        • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2017 - 13:37

          @jaypick:

          But people do exactly that, in around 90% of criminal cases. Pleading guilty to a lower sentence rather than going to court.
          Although I agree that I don't like his chances in this case. Although if he actually takes it to he magistrate he could have a crack, rather than just paying the fine.

        • pudgey01 on 23/08/2017 - 19:09

          @jaypick: What's the difference? thought life was also 25…

        • pudgey01 on 23/08/2017 - 19:12

          @pudgey01: aaaand i just answered my own question…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_the_Unite…

        • Serapis on 24/08/2017 - 15:18
          +1

          @pudgey01:

          That's in the US of A though,

          'Life imprisonment' depends on what is defined in the law. For instance, in NSW, s19A(2) of the Crimes Act 1900 states:

          "A person sentenced to imprisonment for life for the crime of murder is to serve that sentence for the term of the person's natural life."

          Sauce:

          http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/legis/nsw/conso…

    • payless69 on 23/08/2017 - 16:32
      -1

      cruel but a sad fact of revenue raising

  • dylanando on 21/08/2017 - 15:12
    +80

    isnt there a tolerance anyway? So technically you were doing 102/103km and your speedo is probably out as well by maybe another 2km. I'd accept and learn from your mistake.

  • Froot Loops on 21/08/2017 - 15:14
    +17

    You can write to the department that looks after fines in your state and request the fine be dropped down a bracket. You can also add things like years of driving and clean record (If applicable). Its seems to depend on the state. I know NSW has gotten alot tougher. As a general rule, I prob wont elect to take to court, juat try writing a nice letter before you go further.

    This might be worth a read

    http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2587379

    Hope this helps mate. Goodluck

    • yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 16:33
      +2

      Cheers!

  • Findo on 21/08/2017 - 15:17
    +12

    You can try ask for the speed camera calibration certificate, and get your speedo calibrated too. Might cost you more than the fine though.

    • yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 17:11

      If I felt the fine didnt match the speed I was doing I'd probably get this checked, but in this case I was just going faster than intended.

      • Findo on 21/08/2017 - 17:55
        +4

        They won't knock off the speed just because you screwed up, but they might throw your fine out if you can prove their equipment was faulty, or your speedo was so far out a reasonable person would've not known they were speeding. 20km/h could be seen as excessive speeding, there's no real leeway or lenience for that kind of speed unfortunately.

        • Plug on 22/08/2017 - 17:21

          If your speedo is out by that much you probably need it fixed. Mine's the other way- needle says 117 or so when sat nav says I'm doing 100.

        • Findo on 22/08/2017 - 19:31

          @Skexis: that's pretty extreme, is the speed difference constant or does it fluctuate? My old car was pretty much spot on until past speeds of 100, but at 130+ it would get accurate again

        • Cheeper on 24/08/2017 - 14:52

          @niggard:
          Both our cars show 118 when gps shows 110 and have found similar with most cars.
          Tyre wear and pressure will make a difference.

  • bobbified on 21/08/2017 - 15:22
    +114

    My fine is for driving 100KM/H in a 80KM/H zone.
    This puts me in the exceeding the limit by 20-29KM/H bracket - which is $400 and 3 demerit points.

    This is OzB - I'm disappointed you were not driving at the upper end of that bracket. The upper end is where there's more value for money.

    jks.

    • yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 17:14

      Agreed. They should credit me with a get out of jail free card for a 0-9KM/H fine now :)

    • Findo on 21/08/2017 - 17:56
      +3

      I do that! I sit on 132km/h on a 110 road so I am 19km/h over after NSW HWP -3km/h rule. Best value for money!

      • Scrooge McDuck on 21/08/2017 - 22:56
        +19

        Pretty sure 113 km/h would be better value bud.

        • Findo on 22/08/2017 - 01:31

          Time vs money. If money can solve it, it's not a problem. If you don't have that money, or the problem can't be solved with money, then you have a real problem.

        • Euphemistic on 22/08/2017 - 10:50

          or 117 in a zone with no cameras. Copper highly unlikely to pull you over.

      • cameldownunder on 22/08/2017 - 09:26

        Use your GPS for accurate speed rating.

        • Findo on 22/08/2017 - 12:32

          My speedo is exactly 5km/h out

        • ChickenTalon on 22/08/2017 - 16:19
          +1

          @niggard: err what speed does it show when you're stopped?

        • Findo on 22/08/2017 - 19:29

          @ChickenTalon: at speeds from 20-160 its showing as 5km/h over. I haven't tested it past 160.

        • EnALup on 22/08/2017 - 19:54

          @niggard: That is a normal thing for cars made from last 10-15 years. Manufacturers are advised to caliberate speedos approx 5 km/h less as most people tend to go a little higher..

        • Findo on 22/08/2017 - 21:21
          +1

          @Gaggy: it's unfortunate, because I just factor that in when I drive/speed

      • Lockieasy on 22/08/2017 - 18:36

        Same but I do 129km/h just to be certain I'm in the right bracket. I've driven past NSW HWP multiple times doing it and never been pulled over since they're usually after a bigger fish (i.e. the 30+ bracket).

        I figure if I do get pulled over & booked that I'm due for a ticket anyway, since I've been safely doing it to save time and to help stay alert on long haul drives for like 10 years now :)

        • IamEzza on 23/08/2017 - 01:35
          +1

          This is what the speed limit should be on good roads since modern cars are so much safer.

        • Cheeper on 24/08/2017 - 14:54

          @IamEzza:
          .. but the drivers are not :-( That is the reason we dont have higher limits.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 21/08/2017 - 22:57
      +2

      This is OzB - I'm disappointed you were not driving at the upper end of that bracket. The upper end is where there's more value for money.

      Hence OP posting this question.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2017 - 10:34
      +1

      heading exceeding the limit by 20-29KM/H bracket - which is $400 and 3 demerit points.

      Hmm seems pretty lenient to me $400 and 3 demerit points
      100 in an 80 zone is understandable due to the regular increased prevalence of dual carriage way roads changing from 100 to 80 back to 100 in semi rural areas.
      I this case the OP was probably doing 105 in the 80 zone, so be grateful at the pretty lenient $400 and 3 demerit points.

      however a 70kph road is fairly obvious at a single carriage way and sidewalks so 100 in a 70 road (29kph after the 2kph leeway) is inexcusable and should be significanly higher than the weak $400 and 3 demerit points .

  • Lil B on 21/08/2017 - 15:26
    +23

    Absolutely no sympathy for OP, at all.

    You do the crime, do the time!

    • whooah1979 on 21/08/2017 - 16:25
      +25

      You do the crime, do the time!

      fyi speeding by more than 20 km/h but not more than 30 km/h isn't a crime. an offence yes, but not a crime.

    • bdl on 23/08/2017 - 14:15

      Speed = Distance / Time

  • JimmyF on 21/08/2017 - 15:40
    +4

    My fine is for driving 100KM/H in a 80KM/H zone.
    Where as if the alleged speed was 1KM/H less

    Its already been reduced, you'll see something like detected speed 102 or 103km/h, then alleged speed 100km/h.

    • yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 16:37

      Yeah I checked for that, but it just lists the alleged speed. If it listed a detected speed of 102 or more, I wouldn't bother contesting it.

      • JimmyF on 21/08/2017 - 16:44
        +1

        Oh WA might be different, On the east coast, they normally have the above. For example, a vic one looks like this (thanks google)

        http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_enz4TL4RE78/S91n0ok2ylI/AAAAAAAAAZ…

        You can always ASK, they may say yes they may say no. You have nothing to lose.

      • whooah1979 on 21/08/2017 - 16:44
        +1

        ask for a review, but don't go to court. you'll be looking at >$2k if you lose in court.

        • yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 17:18

          Yeah I think it's just how the WA fines are formatted.

          And no I definitely won't be taking this to court. It would be a waste of everyone's time.

        • jwb1981 on 23/08/2017 - 10:00

          Don't forget, if you lose in court, it will become a felony (in QLD it's like that), so be careful if you want to go to court over it…

  • thord on 21/08/2017 - 15:52
    +3

    Don't bother posting speeding fine questions on Ozbargain, most members here have drunk the government cool-aid and have no tolerance for anyone who "speeds". Post after post I see judgement and condemnation.

    Better off going to an automotive forum for advice, or possibly whirlpool. You'll get better responses and somebody might be helpful.

    • Euphemistic on 21/08/2017 - 15:57
      +10

      +1 for 'don't bother posting speeding fine questions'.

      -1 for suggesting that there might be a 'better' response.

      It's all be said before, if you think you are hard done by either write to the issuing authority and ask for some leniency or take it to court. Just know that speeding fines are not easy to get out of in court, and leniency is a once off and only if you have a good driving record.

    • Ryanek on 21/08/2017 - 16:35
      +20

      No cool aid here. Doing 100 in an 80 zone is just simply reckless.

      • yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 17:21
        -1

        I can see how it would look that way. I probably should have specified this was on a freeway with no other cars around. I thought I was doing around 80KM/H, saw the flash, looked at the speedo and realised I wasnt.

        • smashed on 21/08/2017 - 17:56
          +22

          TBH it is even worse that you believed yourself to be doing 80 when you were actually doing 100.

        • mbck on 21/08/2017 - 18:24

          Doesn't matter there was noone. What if something came out? You'd have much less reaction time hen you're doing 100 vs 80.

          Hope this teaches you to be responsible on the road. If you don't like the rules, move to another country or don't drive.

          • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 13:36

            @mbck: You've got less reaction time at 80 vs 60 too
            And 60 vs 40
            And so on

            Where does it end?
            Op may have been driving perfectly safely at 100 in an 80, don't forget many roads have speed limits lower than what the road is engineered for

        • yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 18:36

          For the section of road I was on, it's possible, but it's extremely unlikely.

          That said I'm not saying I didn't do anything wrong, just highlighting I wasnt doing 100KM/H past a school or something like that.

        • mbck on 21/08/2017 - 19:19
          -1

          @sipitai:

          Get it in your head, it doesn't matter if it was near a school or it isn't. It doesn't make it 'less' wrong. Speeding is speeding. Didn't you reply to someone who lost their sister from someone speeding? Wow…sorry not sorry?

        • yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 20:37
          +1

          As above, I'm not trying to say I didn't do anything wrong. Nor am I saying speeding is or should be ok. I really just posted this to highlight the specifics of the situation I was fined in, given it was relevant to the original reply and I hadn't made any mention of it previously.

        • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 13:40

          Don't worry mate, the people on this thread calling you reckless etc have just been brainwashed by the speed kills campaigns

          As you say, it was on a freeway with no other cars around, not a big deal

          The freeway probably used to be 100 anyway not too long ago

      • thord on 21/08/2017 - 17:23
        +28

        "No cool aid here. Doing 100 in an 80 zone is just simply reckless."

        I don't really want to get into a whole discussion, but this is such an absurd and common statement that I want to address it.

        • It is utterly ridiculous for you to think that there's some law of the universe that says that if the gov authority have placed an 80km/h speed limit in a stretch of road, if you go 100km/h you're reckless. Apart from the fickle nature of the placement of speed limits, and the often strict adherence to the transit rules without regard to individual circumstance, the blind reliance on authority is both concerning and pathetic. This also ignores:
        • Individual circumstance. Do you seriously believe that everyone's driving ability, every road with an 80km/h limit, and every car is exactly homogenous that you can make a statement of "100km/h is reckless"? Again, utterly absurd to say such a thing, but utterly common in Australia.
        • It totally ignores the fact that other countries throughout the world have higher speed limits on similar or gasp worse roads, and yet still have better safety statistics for road use.

        Australian's have been totally convinced that "speed" is the biggest danger on the road, and anyone breaking the rules should be hung, but it's ludicrous. The concept of "speed" on a given stretch of road is often arbitrary and inconsistent.

        Anyway, didn't mean to go on a rant. I just hate this blind authority worship that Australian's sometimes do.

        • mbck on 21/08/2017 - 18:27
          +3

          The speed limit is there to make sure you are safe during ANY road conditions.

          Maybe there are small bumps, maybe there are concealed driveway, maybe there are multiple other reasons where it's safer to drive at 80 s opposed to 100kph.

          It doesn't matter if you are "great" at driving. The rule is there to ensure everyone is safe on the road. EVERYONE.

          • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 13:44

            @mbck: Citylink freeway in Melbourne got dropped from 100 to 80
            There was no difference in the road whatsoever yet the speed limit dropped

            Most people still do 100 on it

            Does that mean everyone was legal at 100 one day but now doing the same 100 is reckless?

            Wake up mate

        • Euphemistic on 21/08/2017 - 19:34
          +4

          As much as you are correct about the speed limits seemingly being arbitrary, once you obtain your licence and turn the key there is a number in a circle you are not supposed to exceed. If you do, cop the consequences of the action, don't try to blame 'the man' for stupid speed limits, or try and wriggle out of it.

          If however, you recognise that you were exceeding the posted number and have a 'good excuse' then by all means ask for leniency, but don't expect support from others who recognise that you were speeding.

          And for the record, I do think that some speed limits are a bit low, I like to drive fast and have been pinged a few times in my years on the roads. Copped it on the chin and moved on.

        • airal3rt on 21/08/2017 - 21:26
          +5

          @mbck:

          Nah. You can't make an argument that a relatively arbitrarily imposed speed limit will "ensure" anyone is safe on the road, let alone everyone.

        • mbck on 21/08/2017 - 21:39
          -4

          @airal3rt:

          It's not arbitrary though…Meh you can argue and waste your time here. You get fined and suspended, whatevs.

        • Ryanek on 22/08/2017 - 08:16
          +3

          Yep I was expecting this reply. I am not going to debate speed limits and how we compare to other countries, but let me state some simple facts for you.

          The road has a designated speed limit of 80. One way or another, someone who's job it is to allocate speed limits to roads set this one to 80. That means that everyone else around you is expected to adhere to that speed limit.

          Dangers arise when people don't follow the rules. Look, we're not all driving masters like you. We have old, young and inexperienced people on our roads. People speeding in areas where they are not expected to speed is DANGEROUS.

          Your comment of blind authority worship is beyond ridiculous mate. We have laws that we all abide to, that's how a functioning society works.

          • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 13:38

            @Ryanek: Wake up mate
            This is the typical response of the people brainwashed by the speed kills campaign
            The citylink freeway got dropped from 100 to 80, most people still do 100, does that mean they're all reckless drivers?

            Your comment only got 3 upvotes, thord's got 28 upvotes

          • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 13:42

            @Ryanek: And get in Germany's autobahns they handle 100+ km/h speed differentials between different vehicles, their fatality rate is also lower than Australia's

        • bargainswarrior03 on 22/08/2017 - 10:23
          -2

          This isn't Lord of the Flies. You can't pick and choose laws to obery by. If you want to be an upstanding law obiding citizen, you obey the laws.

          To use a speeding situation to say people blinding adhere to authority is ridiculous. Traffic laws are strict for the protection of the public. It is a zero tolerance approach to speeding because speeding is the greatest cause of death on the road (authority, pun intended: http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/speeding/index.html)

          I don't agree with your entire statement because 20km/hr over the speed limit is not safe. Unless OP has a valid emergency or any legal excuse that can get him/her out of this fine, of course they need to pay up. 20 over 80 is driving 25% faster than the highest speed tolerance. It's not like it was 5 over or anything.

          If you are sick of blind worship, move to Antartica.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2017 - 10:29
          +5

          @mbck:

          Speed limits aren't arbitrary? Odd that they always end in zero and you rarely see 70 or 90 anymore.

        • mbck on 22/08/2017 - 10:44

          @LoopyLou:

          It's called KISS. Not everyone is smart to obey the law, so it clearly seen here.

        • Cliche Guevara on 22/08/2017 - 12:09

          @bargainswarrior03:

          *Antarctica - And FYI "road" rules around the respective antarctic stations are strictly enforced.
          Non-adherence to rules in Antarctica can lead to losing your job and being sent home.

        • Ahbal on 22/08/2017 - 12:48
          +3

          I agree. Fact of the matter is, if you crash and die going 5kph over the limit, you shouldnt be driving in the first place. Overzealous speed limits and enforcement are due to the weak driving skill of motorists.

        • chachi on 23/08/2017 - 11:19
          +2

          I totally agree. There's a lot of roads where lowering the limit from 100 to 80 is just a cash cow. Yet the sheeples still condemn the people who go above the 80 zone places that were 100 because IT'S WRONG! You have to wonder on how low a street speed limit will go because there are places in Melbourne where they want to reduce the limit to 30.

        • thord on 23/08/2017 - 12:06
          +1

          @chachi:

          Yep. Some people just love following rules, without giving any thought to whether those rules are intelligent, or not.

        • chachi on 23/08/2017 - 12:43

          @thord:

          Well, it's actually cheaper to put up Rough Road/new speed limit signs than fixing the roads and it's a bonus to catch people speeding on these new speed limit areas.

          I bet the sheeples would quickly change their tune once limits get down to 20kp/h.

        • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 13:36

          You're spot on

      • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 13:32

        Ah yes

        Because speeding is the only thing that kills right?

        You've been indoctrinated well

      • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 13:41

        Op said it was on a freeway
        City link used to be 100, it's now 80 but most people still do 100, do you really think all these people are still reckless?

        You need to get out into the real world, not just think speed = bad

    • yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 16:41
      +5

      Thanks man. In posting this I knew I'd get a bit of flack though. It's probably deserved if I'm honest :)

      There have already been a few useful answers in the mix and that's all I was hoping for.

    • Baysew on 21/08/2017 - 16:52
      +2

      Don't bother posting speeding fine questions on Ozbargain

      They problem is not so much the answers given, it's the fact that posters never seem to respond with the final outcome.

      Did they -

      1. Pay the fine
      2. Asked for a review and was approved/rejected
      3. Did they take the matter to court.

      If the poster responded it would be helpful to those who might find themselves in a similar situation.

      • yolohobo on 21/08/2017 - 17:50
        +8

        I hereby pledge my intention to return and post the outcome.

        • Baysew on 18/10/2023 - 13:35

          Thanks for the update, you are a person of honour!

    • syousef on 22/08/2017 - 08:56
      +2

      It's simple physics, not some government conspiracy. Governments around the world all agree with the same formulae.

      p = mv
      and
      E = 0.5mv^2
      and
      Your reaction time isn't magically better than everyone else's
      and
      The likelihood of a catastrophic or fatal injury increases dramatically with small increases in speed. Proven time and again by many studies world-wide.

      People like yourself, who think they are superior drivers are actually proof of another bit of science: Dunning-Kruger. Please give up driving and take up a hobby where it's only yourself you're likely to kill. I suggest bungy jumping.

    • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 13:31
      -1

      Agreed

      In many countries around the world, 100 in an 80 is standard practice and no one bats an eye

      • Baysew on 18/10/2023 - 14:25
        +1

        For someone that is keen on speed you are pretty slow in responding, this thread is 6 years old!

        • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 16:23
          -1

          Still doesn't change the fact that people in this thread are acting like the op murdered kittens
          He did 100 in an 80 zone freeway
          Hardly a big deal

          • syousef on 18/10/2023 - 17:21

            @speedingftw: Another one that thinks the speed limits don't apply to him, and this time with a name to match. I hope you lose your license before you get a first hand demonstration of why 100 in an 80 zone is a big deal.

            • speedingftw on 18/10/2023 - 18:05
              -1

              @syousef: https://goo.gl/maps/EZeQvWG4caF2

              This is the road OP got pinged on
              You've got to be deluded if you think 100 is an issue on this wide open road

              • syousef on 19/10/2023 - 03:11
                -2

                @speedingftw: You're right. I am so delusional as to think speed limits are a good idea and should apply to everyone. I am delusional enough to understand the physics means you carry 4x as much punch if you double your speed. I am delusional enough to really wish making comments like the one you made could lose you your license. I'm delusional enough to believe you're dangerous on the road if you think speed limits should be broken because various random users think the road should have a faster limit and speed on that road is not "an issue". I'm delusional enough to hope that if your attitude leads to you getting hurt, you're the only one who is. I'm delusional enough to sincerely hope you are trolling. Utterly delusional. But it's totally reasonable to have any random user decide to ignore the speed limit, right?

                • speedingftw on 19/10/2023 - 09:11
                  -1

                  @syousef: How do you think Germany manages with 100+km/h speed differentials on it's motorways?

                  Their road toll is lower than ours too

                  • syousef on 19/10/2023 - 09:20
                    +2

                    @speedingftw: Dude, Germany is one of the most particular places about their rules. If you break a rule you will be absolutely nailed to the wall for breaking it.

                    Take a look. 26 or more km/hr over the limit and you lose your license for at least a month (mandatory suspension).

                    https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/german-driving-laws/#:~:text….

                    I sometimes wonder if people answering here on OzB live not in Germany or Australia but in Fantasy Land.

                    • speedingftw on 19/10/2023 - 10:38
                      -1

                      @syousef: Exactly same in Vic (3 months)

                      You still haven't explained how Germany's road toll is lower than ours with 100+km/h speed differentials on their motorways though (many of their motorways are unlimited speed zones)

                      • cameldownunder on 19/10/2023 - 15:22

                        @speedingftw: Because of sticking to RULES and good policing. There's no such thing as a Warning.
                        And less crappy drivers …. not insinuating anything related to migration etc …..

                      • syousef on 19/10/2023 - 16:04

                        @speedingftw: You haven't explained why I need to explain "how Germany's road toll is lower than ours with 100+km/h speed differentials on their motorways" to validate my assertion that speeding drivers are dangerous.

                        "many of their motorways are unlimited speed zones" is also an exaggeration.

                        If you ignore the laws and speed and continue to encourage others to do the same I hope you get taken off the road because you are dangerous and shouldn't have a license.

                        • speedingftw on 19/10/2023 - 16:30

                          @syousef: "many of their motorways are unlimited speed zones" is also an exaggeration."

                          Have you even driven the autobahn recently?

                          • kerfuffle on 19/10/2023 - 22:04
                            +2

                            @speedingftw: Did you get bored/banned too much over at Whirlpool and remembered you haven't been banned here yet … Until you started making ghost accounts?

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