Driver Refuses to Provide Evidence of Damage to Tesla

Basically my mother was driving our car and apparently gently touched the rear of bumper of a Tesla.

My brother was with her at the time and used his phone to take a pic of the Tesla's rear bumper which showed a little scuff. The woman driving the Tesla refused to allow proper examination. The collision is estimated at 1-2 km /hr and was really a "kiss", as she rolled into the other car. My brother says there was definitely no dent in the bumper and he doubts there was any paint damage.

The woman concerned has refused to show any evidence of the "damage" but apparently has a panel beater recommending the bumper being resprayed.
What should we do about the lack of cooperation with the other owner. She has shown no evidence that there is damage and for all we know is just trying to get a few shopping carpark scratches removed on us.

Of course if there is legitimate damage then my mother will pay the damage.

Comments

  • +26 votes

    Use the photo you have to argue that no panel-beater is needed. If they want to claim money from you, they need to provide the evidence.

    For the time being, report this to your own insurance, provide the photo, and otherwise ignore the other driver.

    • -13 votes

      How is a photo better than a panel beater who says it needs to be fixed ?

      • +26 votes

        If the photo shows no dent, that's better than the word of anyone.

        • -16 votes

          A photo can be manipulated - angles , photoshop etc and even with one it doesn't show internal damage and even if it shows nothing someone has to pay for the inspection , removing and putting back the bumper and that person is ops mother for the "kiss".

        • +30 votes

          @qwerty:

          Heck, perhaps the whole car is a write off.
          I would suggest that they quote for a new car, after all you have admitted rolling into it. That is all they need according to qwerty.

        • +2 votes

          The panel beater said what needs to be done and it is very reasonable for a low impact rear end collision . His options are to ask for an additional quote , pay the current quote or pay his excess.

          But hey just be a smartass about it hes still going to pay one way or the other as it was 100% his mothers fault.

        • +4 votes

          @qwerty: qwerty I dont know why you are so sure that there must be damage. I find it very strange that the other party is not willing to provide the evidence that a reasonable person would provide without question. It would be quite easy to resolve this. Just send a photo of the damage rather than dust that has been disturbed on a dirty car. You do realise that the collision was at less than walking pace?

        • -5 votes

          "Standard sized vehicles can still hit another car with a force of about 3.7 tons when driving at a low speed. SUVs, trucks, or semi-trucks will collide with an even greater force because they are much bigger than standard vehicles. For example, it’s estimated that a vehicle that weighs around 3,000 pounds will produce a force of 5.6 tons during a low impact accident."

          Even assuming no visible exterior damage at all after the accident they take it to a panel beater - the panel beater removes and inspects the bumper and other damage and puts it back - who pays in that situation ?

        • +3 votes

          @smashed:

          Thats an extreme example to illustrate the point I am trying to make.

        • +2 votes

          @razorack999:

          Extrene examples are sometimes required to make a point unfortunately.

        • +12 votes

          @qwerty:

          Sorry, but a car can hit me at 1kph. It will not be 3.7 tonnes of force. Seriously?

        • +2 votes

          @qwerty:
          I believe modern bumpers are designed to take collisions up to 15km without damage- it is part of the australian standards. But that is not even in question- its whether there has been paint damage that is in issue. And to determine that you would need to see the car clean, which it wasnt. All i want is the woman to give me a pic of the cars damage and I will pay.

        • +4 votes

          @razorack999Auto associations do impact tests of "shopping centre" collisions on popular cars. Generally walking pace into a bollard is enough for 3 -6 thousand dollars damage and can result in a write-off on some vehicles.

          https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/written-off-in-10kmh-cra...

        • +4 votes

          @singlemalt72:
          The problem is that we have no idea on the true impact or damage so everything is conjecture.
          That is why the OP doesn't wish to just take their word for it, particularly as they have a photo.

        • -5 votes

          @smashed:

          The only person with an idea of the true impact and damage in this situation is the panel beater.

          He has provided a quote and a recommended remedy .

        • +7 votes

          @qwerty:

          Have you ever had 2 different quotes from 2 different places?

          Do you believe it is reasonable to believe that this panel beater may like some work when it is not required?

        • +4 votes

          @qwerty: I don't think it is unreasonable to expect there should be proof as to what damage was done. Not sure why she wouldn't be willing to provide it? If it was on the up and up, then she shouldn't object to you meeting with the panel beater and seeing what he is talking about; as long as you behave yourself and not get into an argument.

          I presume you don't have insurance or are trying to avoid excess etc. However, if the cost to the bumper bar is high (and given it is a Tesla I suspect so) handing it to the insurance company might be your best bet. They sure as hell will want proof.

        • +1 vote

          @smashed: No I havent been shown any quotes yet, so far i believe she only has one . But I do have reason to believe that the panel beater may be looking for work

        • +1 vote

          @qwerty: so why not provide the evidence? I am trying to be cooperative but none is coming back

        •  

          @smashed:

          Have you ever had to get 2 different quotes ?

          a second panel beater will easily get a similar quote no questions asked.

        • -1 vote

          @razorack999:

          She said shes got a quote and should get it for you - you can ask for her pannel beater and call them up

        • -4 votes

          @try2bhelpful:

          Shes got a quote and is going to get back to him - hes jumping the gun.

          Ever hear the saying truck and taxi driver saying - Rear ender , Career ender ?

          Hes got 2 choices pay his insurance excess or pay the panel beater - just do whatevers cheaper and be done with it .

        • +3 votes

          @qwerty: Why does he have to do anything without any proof? Insurance/Crash scams are not unknown and so is inflated repair bills to cover off a few other things that needed doing, e.g. car park scrapes, etc. I would certainly be asking for proof of damage if I was the OP and I would ask to have a chat with the Panel Beater. I'm not sure what the legality is here, but I would be surprised if the other person can just present a bill with no proof of damage caused.

          I do agree that the best thing, now, is to take this to the insurance company and let them fight it out. Even once this is paid, there may come another bill later on when she decides the frame has been skewed by the accident as well. (With no proof offered).

          Transparency in these issues is best for everyone concerned.

        •  

          @try2bhelpful:

          Seeing in this case you dont have excessive damage - you have 1 bumper being removed , inspected and resprayed and that is really easy to get a second quote at a higher cost - plus they can throw in some extras i.e costs of hire car to increase the cost.

          Insurance will probably check out the car but in such a situation they will not fight it out in court which would probably be a 100% loss for them , they will just deal with lowering the panel beaters costs but op will be out the excess and probably pay more for insurance .

          The frame and future damages is the real issue in this so you would need some guarantee that no other damage was done provided by the panel beater.

        •  

          @qwerty: Don't, necessarily, disagree but there is no skin off the nose of the other driver to just send a couple of photos to show the damage and give a bit of a breakdown as to what they are doing for repairs. It will provide everyone with transparency.

          https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/find-legal-answers/traffic-o...

          Some insurers require you to notify them of an accident, even if you don't make a claim on them; so there is likely to be an affect on the premiums, anyway.

          Without knowing what costs the OP is up for, and who knows with a Tesla, it is hard to say if the insurance is the best way to go.

        • +1 vote

          @smashed: It is a 3.7tonne vehicle and it hit you from above.

          Game.

        • +1 vote

          @razorack999:

          A cut and polish may solve the marks if there are some…

          Maybe someone should explain to the driver that if she gets the bumper resprayed, when selling the vehicle it maybe harder to sell because the inspecting person maybe of the opinion that the car was in some who knows how big accident.

          Panel beaters like to blend panels, so chances are they will want to blend the boot lid and rear quarters to match as many are hopeless at colour matching.

        • +3 votes

          @qwerty: if he knows he won't get the job, I'd believe the assessment.

          I'm not trying to say there is damage to the cars or not. But the panel beater's assessment cannot be relied upon when he knows he's going to get a $1,000+ job from his "professional opinion".
          Why would he turn away business, the Tesla owner told him there's been a collision, OF COURSE there's work to be done! Which translate to profit for him?

        •  

          They aren't arguing there's a dent. They are arguing it needs to be resprayed.

        •  

          And the Tesla owner can provide their own pictures to counter the claim.

          He is right, I do really basic photoshop work on some photos I take, removing power poles and such, its stupidly easy, from never using photoshop to doing that really well is less then an hour of practice and effort these days.

        •  

          @razorack999: I'm not an expert by any means, but if my memory of high-school physics serves, cars are designed to basically 'crumple', spreading the force of the collision over a longer time, resulting in a lower impact to occupants/pedestrians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_(mechanics)

          The downsize is that bumpers crumple, and any minor collision can cause costly damage.

        •  

          @qwerty:

          The panel beater said what needs to be done and it is very reasonable for a low impact rear end collision . His options are to ask for an additional quote , pay the current quote or pay his excess.

          Precisely - his option is to get another quote from elsewhere. But the owner is refusing to provide evidence of damage.

          Just because one panel beater is quoting a full respray of the bumper, doesn't mean it's an honest quote. I know several panel beaters that will be happy to bump up the quote if you tell them it's an insurance job.

        •  

          @ILikeBargenz:

          You really think shes going to be stupid enough to go to a second panel beater that says nothing needs to be done and show OP the quote ? If that magically happened she will do is go to a another one that says the same thing or something higher and now shes got 2 experts saying a bumper needed respraying . Plus shes not going to go to his pannel beater friend who says no damage or go with him to a panel beater where he and his family will argue that there was no accident just dust being wiped off .

        •  

          @qwerty:

          That's not how this works. You want someone to fix your car, then BOTH PARTIES need to be reasonable and cooperative. There is no reason to not provide OP a photo of the damage. If both parties can't come to an agreement then that's when you can turn to insurance.

          Why are you assuming OP will take it to his friend who will say it doesn't need repairing?

          I've been in a similar situation. I accidentally pranged the car in front of me in a parking lot (friend parked the car in gear without me realising and it jerked forward a bit when I started it). I went to reception and got them to call the owner of the vehicle. We both took pictures, exchanged details and he got a quote. The damage was a tiny tiny scuff. He got a quote saying $900, and I politely told him that that was rather overpriced, and my panel beater that I've had do plenty of work on my cars quoted me $300. He happily accepted $300 cash and probably never even bothered to get it fixed cause there was much worse damage on the rest of the car.

          Unless you're trying to get pricey quote to pocket a bit of cash, it makes no sense to refuse providing a photo. If the bumper actually needs a respray, then going through insurance will get you your respray - but the insurance company certainly isnt going to give you cash. Nothing is stopping the owner of the tesla going through insurance.

        •  

          @qwerty: You are hilarious, OP has no obligation whatsoever to believe any casual throw off comment from a random panel beater. Grow up and live in the real world friend, if you want to prove something, you need hard and credible evidence. A panel beater is not a content expert on the damage/potential damage one car can cause another in a slow collision and neither are you. Don't pay a single cent until they produce credible evidence of the damage.

        •  

          @qwerty: I got two quotations when someone knocked my parked car and I was claiming from their insuarance. The prices were significantly different. Imho the panel beaters are just after some easy $$. If the op is telling the truth, they will just wax the bumper and get the money

        •  

          @Reubzy:

          Yes we should trust OP , his nonsense story about only dust getting removed when the cars kissed lol and lack of providing a photo vs a quote from a pannel beater that said it needs to be resprayed which is reasonable in this situation.

          But that is why insurance places use assessors and why op should go through insurance - but i dont think he wants to pay excess or the respray so hes

  • +1 vote

    That there was damage thats all. They are refusing to show photos

  • +4 votes

    There was an accident and your mother was 100% at fault for rear ending . Tesla driver got a freebie rear end repair and if you want to push it she will go through insurance and she will still end up with a free rear end repair .

    • -1 vote

      so you are saying that evidence of a collision is enough. That they dont have to provide evidence of damage?

      • +9 votes

        That's right, they don't have to do anything until the court orders them to. That's why OzB always recommends insurance, let them handle it.

      • +2 votes

        Even if your mother left 1m gap travelling at "1km/h" she had 4seconds to react. You must need to have your foot on the brakes to travel at that speed. So now the insurance ask what was your mother doing leaving in the car.

        As minor as it seems, if you got a 100k car and someone hit your rear and cracked your paint job, I'm sure you'll do the same.

      •  

        You know his Tesla isn’t going to be worth as much with a repaired/replaced rear end. If you do have to pay make sure to write it in the service history ;)

  • +31 votes

    Regardless if the bumper already has scratches on it if you 'kissed' it and damaged the paint the whole bumper would need to be sprayed.
    You're lucky for a high end car sometimes they opt to spray the entire vehicle to ensure the paint work matches.

    • -19 votes

      yes but you are assuming that there was damage. i am saying that it may not have been damaged

      • +14 votes

        You said there was a scuff. Thats damage?

        • -15 votes

          car was dusty.

        • +1 vote

          @razorack999:

          Unfortunately that's not how the would works when it comes to vehicle accidents.

          If you had a low impact collision with a 93 Toyota Camry driven by a busy dad, may be he would let you go.

          But if you've hit a $100K car, even an damage assessment would cost money even if there's well and truly no damage in the best case scenario.
          Once you've exchanged details after the incident, you've acknowledged an accident occurred and you're on the hook.

      •  

        You are saying that he is 'Assuming', and yet in same sentence you are saying 'may not'. How are you any different than him?

  • +10 votes

    Pic please?

  •  

    I don't think that you will find much if any sympathy here, pay up and move on… That is what insurance is for.

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