Passive Income from Crypto

Lbluehalk on 30/11/2017 - 12:35
Last edited 01/12/2017 - 18:04 by 1 other user

Hi Guys,

I am new to this cryptocurrency business and would like to get your opinions on how to earn passive income from booming crypto market.

Things that I have tried so far.

Mining (I have only one AMD R9 280x GPU in my gaming PC).

  1. Attempted to solo mine few coins (Unsuccessful)
  2. Selling my hashing power to nicehash.com (I was only making $1-$2 worth of BTC a day).

Buy/Sale crypto:

  1. Bought few coins for short term gains. Turns out, I was buying them when they were on highs and was selling low after getting fear of loss.
  2. Bought few more coins (NEO, GAS, OMG, GOLEM, POWR, SC, NEM, MaidSafeCoin) for long term, but from the looks of it. I will end up in loss as they don't seem to be moving much.
  3. Everyone advised me to only put in the amount which I am ready to lose, as such I have invested about $3000 on BTC at $10000 AUD price, and only have invested about $500 worth on above altcoins.

So far, I have made a loss.

Any suggestion or advise on how I can turn this in profit or low passive income.

Financial

Comments

  • vicosads on 30/11/2017 - 12:40
    +33

    mining would likely never again be profitable in australia due to power prices, unless you get setup a miner at work or something ;^)

    • bluehalk on 30/11/2017 - 12:42
      +1

      I realized that mining is possible anymore. I have read people are doing other means to mine such as PoS, I personally do not understand the concept of PoS so have not got in yet.

      • virhlpool on 01/12/2017 - 18:39
        +2

        PoS being an acronym for?

        • whorevath on 01/12/2017 - 19:10
          +1

          Proof of Stake.

          i.e. not mining

      • educalifa on 01/12/2017 - 22:06

        Proof of stake means just that, that you can prove you have a 'stake' in the thing. It's just a fancy name that means you download their wallet, transfer your coins to your computer (you should never really leave any decent amount on the exchange anyway) and once it's all there you set your wallet to 'staking'. You'll get a reward from holding coins in your wallet, the amount will vary according to how much you have. The more you have, the more and more often you get your rewards.

    • HighAndDry on 30/11/2017 - 13:45
      +12

      Wonder if you could set up a solar powered mining rig in the outback… like some kind of evil mastermind lair.

      • Adz81 on 01/12/2017 - 11:51
        +4

        Check out the Youtube channel of a guy in Queensland named HBPowerwall… This guy's brilliant with the gear he's building, and if memory serves, he's set up (or is setting up) a solar powered rig to do exactly this.

        • Serapis on 05/12/2017 - 01:55

          Mining machines (I'm assuming OP is looking to mine Etherium due to mention of a GPU) get very hot so they will need:
          + lots of power
          + consistent supply of power
          + cranked up A/C

          Running 1x mining pc inside a room during winter for an hour is enough to warm the room up. If you have a really fancy solar set up it might just work but I would be extremely worried about fires with the rigs and all the batteries running 24/7.

    • [Deactivated] on 01/12/2017 - 10:57
      +2

      Someone in my industry got caught doing this on work machines at night, he got fired…

      • knk on 01/12/2017 - 15:32
        +4

        When CPU mining was profitable, I had access to alot of servers that I could have used.

        Man imagine if I did it - being fired wouldn't have been a big deal haha

        • vid_ghost on 02/12/2017 - 08:08
          +2

          or in 2009 if you purchased $100 US dollars worth of bitcoins they would be worth almost one Billion dollars today

          10,000 Bit coins cost $10 back in 2009

          1 Bit Coin is worth $8500 US today

          Thats $85,000,000 Million in US Dollars today and $850,000,000 for $100US bux

          Think about how rich we all would have been if we all just spend $10 bucks on some coin… :) same could be said about investing in google or Microsoft but those were over a 20 year period

        • knk on 02/12/2017 - 14:21
          +8

          @vid_ghost:

          Yeah hindsight is a bitch

        • boretentsu on 05/12/2017 - 22:37

          @vid_ghost: To be completely honest, if I even had that coin back then, I would have cashed it out way earlier…

        • Kunalk222 on 18/12/2017 - 01:16

          @knk: everyone is millionare in hindsight

      • idonotknowwhy on 01/12/2017 - 18:20

        Well good, he was wearing out the hardware and costing the company money.

        • virhlpool on 01/12/2017 - 18:41

          Just curious - is it such a significant loss (electricity/ wear) to the company that it had to fire him OR was it more for ethical reasons?

        • idonotknowwhy on 01/12/2017 - 19:29
          +5

          @virhlpool: I don't know the scale, type of mining, etc.
          If he started mining on laptops or low-profile machines then yeah, they'd be running HOT.
          A/C would probably kick in more often assuming the office runs a thermostat.

          But mostly the ethical reason. That power and equipment belongs to the company, not to him.

        • cryptos on 02/12/2017 - 02:39
          +1

          It’s called “burn in” testing, a common part of accepting new hardware

      • frostman on 04/12/2017 - 20:25

        Thnx for telling me, I was thinking of doing it at work

      • Serapis on 05/12/2017 - 02:00
        +1

        There was a really old story from the early days of bitcoin about a school administrator who mined a ton of bitcoin using his school's computers:

        How to Get Rich on Bitcoin, By a System Administrator Who's Secretly Growing Them On His School's Computers

        I'm assuming he'd be a multimillionaire now (if he didn't cash out during the 2013 - 2014 bear run)

    • OzBrogains on 01/12/2017 - 13:49

      Lol what’s the worst that could happen if found out.

      • Other on 01/12/2017 - 21:15
        +3

        Installing unauthorized 3rd party software on company computers - data security, etc, etc. Big issues - guy might not even get a bad reference for his next job.

        There is no money in cpu mining (initially - yes, but then and now = no), so the amounts he might of made would be pretty low. Better to keep the job and just devote % of income.

    • A fish on 01/12/2017 - 15:47
      +1

      still profitable

    • pitiek on 02/12/2017 - 13:34

      Can't you setup a mining machine in a public cloud environment like AWS…?

      • knk on 02/12/2017 - 14:26

        Not profitable

    • chinezejew on 04/12/2017 - 13:12

      Would you know how much bandwidth it would take up to GPU mine?

      Is 4G Mobile Broadband sufficient to mine with?
      (ie: what loss compared to adsl2+?)
      is there an optimum upload and download speed?

      Optus Mobile Broadband Test: Down; 6.79 mbps & Up; 2.03mbps
      Vodafone Mobile Broadband Test: Down; 12.04 mbps & Up; 2.33mbps

  • idonotknowwhy on 30/11/2017 - 12:41
    +11

    I wouldn't bother with an R9 280x. You can't mine ETH anymore because of the DAG size, and those things drew a shit tonne of power and ran hot.
    Mining is about selling what you mine every day for AUD, not investing in the coins you mine.
    If you want to invest in coins, by them separately.

    If you want some passive income, lookup "Masternodes" on Gogole and set some of those up on linode.
    Cheap coins include: Chaincoin, Sibcoin, 8BIT and soon Zencash. The first 3 can all run on the same node.
    Grab a referral code for $20 credit, and refer yourself new accounts if you need them lol.
    You get paid decently per day for mixing coins.

    http://masternodes.pro

    Don't put in anything you can't afford to lose. Assume all crypto could be worth $0 when you wake up tomorrow.

    • bluehalk on 30/11/2017 - 12:46
      +1

      For masternodes setup the initial investment is lot more than I can afford to lose. I think this is same as PoS in some way.

      • idonotknowwhy on 30/11/2017 - 12:46

        Some of them are cheap with high ROI. Looks like a Desire (DSR) masternode costs US$254 and earns US$1.73 per day. I shall add this to my linode tonight.
        My CHC masternodes have already paid for themselves.

        • bluehalk on 30/11/2017 - 12:55

          I think I will stay away from Masternodes. Thank you for your suggestion.

      • educalifa on 01/12/2017 - 22:10

        Look up smartcash, their masternode will be 10000 coins which at today's rate is $800… it's about to be released too so I'd say you might even see a bump in the coin price in the short term.

        • lucas001 on 01/12/2017 - 22:55
          +1

          their masternode will be 10000 coins = 400 dollars at the actual rate. end of december. it already pays 7-10% /month with a sort of POS but you don't need to keep your computer on, just 1000 coins in one address and not move it.

    • idjces on 30/11/2017 - 21:08

      this is kool. Any idea how much traffic gets sent hosting a node?

    • devize on 01/12/2017 - 18:08

      Any recommendations on a set up to run 10-20 zencash secure nodes?

      • idonotknowwhy on 01/12/2017 - 18:12

        secure nodes aren't masternodes. They'll take a little more work.
        Join their slack channel.
        I've got all mine setup, but payment won't be activated for another 2 weeks.
        Use linode for hosting, letsencrypt for the TLS certificates. You'll have to buy a domain too, but each node can be a subdomain.

        • devize on 01/12/2017 - 18:22

          Yes I understand that, I'd like to invest in a machine that can run 10-20 nodes but not really sure what would be capable. My current machine will only support about 4 nodes.

          I've got two weeks to set things up. Thanks for the other information.

          I'm in their discord/telegram but as far as putting together a machine I'm on my own a little.

        • idonotknowwhy on 01/12/2017 - 18:29

          @devize:

          I'm in their discord/telegram but as far as putting together a machine I'm on my own a little.

          Everyone seems to be going with linode for the time being.

          I don't have the answer for the scaling question, this is a new technology so we'll probably know more in the weeks to come.

    • Captain M on 02/12/2017 - 14:01

      So what exchange do you use to sell Chaincoin, Sibcoin and Zencash that you mine?

      • idonotknowwhy on 03/12/2017 - 17:26

        Cryptopia for all of them.
        You can get better rates for Zen and possibly SIB on bittrex, but I trust Cryptopia more.

        Edit: And I don't "mine" SIB or Chain, I get masternode payouts for them.

    • mrblu on 03/12/2017 - 14:12

      Could you explain more on how you mix coins?

  • redfox1200 on 30/11/2017 - 12:42
    +13

    if you want to make a profit you have to sell the coins for more than what you paid for them.

    if the coins go down in value, buy more

    • djones145 on 30/11/2017 - 12:43
      +6

      bitcoins fell 20% today
      BUY BUY BUY

      • mskeggs on 30/11/2017 - 12:53
        +53

        It's important to keep buying all the way down so you can be sure of getting the lowest price. It is called catching a falling knife, and all the young, daring investors do it.

        • bluehalk on 30/11/2017 - 12:54
          -2

          Please explain.

          You mean to put a limit buy order for lowest price and wait for it?

        • mskeggs on 30/11/2017 - 13:01
          +19

          @bluehalk:
          Say it drops to $9000 tomorrow and you buy, you will look silly if it drops to $8000 the next day. You need to keep buying, because you won't know the lowest price until well after it has been reached.
          Some investors call it averaging down. Some investors call it throwing good money after bad.
          A graph illustrates it well. The left hand of this graph from a multi-national power company shows a similar pattern to bitcoin:
          http://www.candlestickforum.com/store/images/enroncorpchart.…

        • bluehalk on 30/11/2017 - 13:04
          +1

          @mskeggs:

          Aha! got it. Thank you.

        • John Kimble on 30/11/2017 - 13:07
          +58

          @bluehalk: Somehow I don't think you do…

        • bluehalk on 30/11/2017 - 13:11
          +2

          @John Kimble:

          Lol! may be not.

          But what I understood is to invest the money when the price is down and invest some more when it goes even lower. That way you are averaging the initial cost of purchase and when the cost is going up you can sell to make profit.

          However, to do this, one would need to put in more money one after other, and that I cannot sustain it.

        • poboy on 30/11/2017 - 13:37
          +15

          He's trying to tell you that some investments will keep falling in value, reducing your returns.

        • bluehalk on 30/11/2017 - 13:39
          +2

          @Dozingquinn:

          Oh! :(

        • djones145 on 30/11/2017 - 13:48

          as long as u have unlimited money hack! or a rich sugar mumma
          like in the casino playing blackjack

        • Kangal on 30/11/2017 - 14:05
          +3

          @bluehalk:
          …finally, he gets it.

          Just remember the phrase: Past performance is not indicator of future success.

        • John Kimble on 30/11/2017 - 14:08

          @Kangal: Unless you're Winx? Haha

        • Kangal on 30/11/2017 - 14:15
          +1

          @John Kimble:

          Horse racing is not as predictable as people think. The mare could have spicy food the night before, and be completely knackered the next day for the race. Better just play roulette and put everything on Black ; )

        • D C on 30/11/2017 - 14:20
          +1

          @Dozingquinn:

          He's trying to tell you that

          Don't discourage him, it has to hit rock bottom eventually.

          BUY BUY BUY!

        • original15 on 30/11/2017 - 17:43

          Lol thank you mskeggs

        • JIMB0 on 01/12/2017 - 06:55
          +2

          @mskeggs: Averaging down also comes with the added advantage of reducing your losses in percentage terms.

        • T-man on 01/12/2017 - 09:40
          +1

          @John Kimble:

          He’s trolling

        • dealman on 01/12/2017 - 10:43
          +3

          @JIMB0:

          reducing your losses in percentage terms.

          Lol

        • Twodogs on 01/12/2017 - 11:37
          +4

          @Kangal: Also make sure to put the same amount on red …. you can NEVER lose woohoo.

        • John Kimble on 01/12/2017 - 11:43
          +6

          @Twodogs: Um. Yes you can… :p

        • The tiger on 01/12/2017 - 17:53
          -1

          @bluehalk:
          Be warned @mskeggs ' suggestion is dangerous unless you have capital to keep on buying till it reaches its bottom . After reaching its bottom there is still doubt it can rebounce back. It is a gamble if you adopt this system. You may win as in the case of Bitcoin

        • thriftybunny on 01/12/2017 - 18:00
          +1

          @John Kimble: sorry I LOLed

        • DarwinBoy on 01/12/2017 - 18:01

          @Kangal:
          This was an interesting concept.
          The idea of swarm intelligence is quite fascinating. Wouldnt work on roulette though.
          https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/swar…

        • Other on 01/12/2017 - 21:18

          hahaha

        • bluebo on 01/12/2017 - 22:43
          +1

          @djones145: I wouldn't bother investing if I had unlimited money.

        • [Deactivated] on 01/12/2017 - 22:58
          +3

          @mskeggs: Easier said than done. I've been in the share market for more than 10 years. Averaging down is a recipe for disaster if you don't know what you're doing.

          If we were both rich as investors, we wouldn't be spending time on this forum.

        • [Deactivated] on 01/12/2017 - 23:00

          @bluebo: No such thing as unlimited money, once the amount is materialised, it becomes finite.

        • soupkitchen on 02/12/2017 - 15:29

          @bluehalk:
          It is pure friendly sarcasm. IE A common trap, what not to do.

        • Baysew on 03/12/2017 - 18:03
          +1

          @damamaria 1943: mskeggs is well known to give wild and crazy advice. That is just the way he rolls.

        • Kunalk222 on 18/12/2017 - 01:40
          +1

          @mskeggs: averaging works well in stock markets…I dont think this will work in bitcoinmarkets…only invest the amount you are ready to loose…lot of coins out there…90% will fail in long term

      • redfox1200 on 30/11/2017 - 12:57
        +4

        already back to 15k lol

    • John Kimble on 30/11/2017 - 12:44
      +1

      Genius!

  • D C on 30/11/2017 - 12:51
    +29

    I need to start making TulipCoin.

    • idonotknowwhy on 30/11/2017 - 12:55
      +3

      When's the ICO? I'm in!

      • redfox1200 on 30/11/2017 - 13:05

        i can only afford to spend 8-10 times my income, do you think i can afford a single coin?

        • ausdday on 30/11/2017 - 13:07

          only if you tell us what your income is.

        • redfox1200 on 30/11/2017 - 13:11
          +2

          @ausdday:

          180k+

        • ausdday on 30/11/2017 - 13:18

          @redfox1200:
          Poor man, do you have a house to live in? You should work harder or get a second job.

          I am sure someone would sell you their coin for $1.8 million (10x income), if you ask nicely.

        • idonotknowwhy on 30/11/2017 - 13:37
          +2

          @redfox1200: I'll sell you 1 cheap, ozbargain discount. $1337

      • idonotknowwhy on 30/11/2017 - 13:37
        +13

        Fork it. TulipClassic

        • kehuehue on 01/12/2017 - 22:37
          +5

          And then TulipGold

        • blehgg on 02/12/2017 - 08:20
          +2

          @kehuehue:

          TulipDiamond is coming!

        • Kangal on 04/12/2017 - 20:39

          @blehgg:

          TulipDiet, TulipVanilla, and TulipZero.

        • Serapis on 05/12/2017 - 02:09
          +1

          @Kangal: Sounds like the Pokemon series… liked it when it was only 151…

      • D C on 30/11/2017 - 14:20

        Well dang.

      • abb on 04/12/2017 - 10:22
        +1

        Is PonziCoin taken yet?

        edit: Yes, yes it is…

  • jaackyy on 30/11/2017 - 13:41
    +3

    FIrst of all, I think you have too many alt coins.

    I would only hold NEO and OMG and maybe POWR from that list. Golem has been dead for a while… its one of those ' the idea is good, but whether or not they achieve the idea in reality is questionable'

    You definitely need to have ethereum in your wallet. I would almost say your percentages should be 30% BTC , 45% ethereum 25% alt coins.

    Ethereum is the future. It's currently processing more transactions than the entire crypto-space combined.

    • bluehalk on 30/11/2017 - 15:17
      -1

      Thank you.

      Just sold all the altcoins except GAS and POWR, they are in red since the time I bought so I would be at loss if I sell them now.

      I did have 1.7 ETH but the price kind of stayed same for a while so had it swapped for BTC.

      • Fobsessive on 02/12/2017 - 01:39
        +9

        "they are in red since the time I bought so I would be at loss if I sell them now" is not a rational investment decision

  • Cheap Charlie on 30/11/2017 - 13:50
    +5
    1. Bought few more coins (NEO, GAS, OMG, GOLEM, POWR, SC, NEM, MaidSafeCoin) for long term, but from the looks of it. I will end up in loss as they don't seem to be moving much.

    If you are $500 deep in these alts, hold them, don't look at what the market is doing. These are coins that should do well in the future.
    They are good projects

    1. Everyone advised me to only put in the amount which I am ready to lose, as such I have invested about $3000 on BTC at $10000 AUD price, and only have invested about $500 worth on above altcoins.

    Great advice. Working on AUD BTC is at $14780 as we speak. You are up almost 50%.

    If you are wanting to draw an income from cypto you either need to subscribe to the services of some one whom is really good at anaylising charts or learn how to analyse charts yourself.
    These courses are popular: https://chartguys.com/courses/

    In crypto there is so much FUD and missinformation.
    New entrants to the market tend to gamble by actting on poor information, a sure recipe to end upside down.

    FOMO drives new traders into investing to early.
    Try and limit your investments in the early stages.

    LINKS, go back through these clips for free knowledge:
    - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLo66QVfEod0nNM_GzKNxmQ
    - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCatR7nWbYrkVXdxXb4cGXw

    • bluehalk on 30/11/2017 - 15:26

      I am (or would have been) up 50% on my BTC holding, but the initial mistake I made was moving them around while settling on wallet.

      I wasn't sure which wallet would suit me and so I had them transferred from exchange to JAXX, then to Blockchain, then to electrum. I didn't realize the high transaction fee (mining fee) at that time, but in few instances I have paid up to 0.002 BTC in mining fee. Also, I didn't realize the mining fee was not based on the amount I moved, so I did few transactions in smaller chunks but ended up paying the same higher fee for each transaction.

      So in reality I am about 10% up.

      And I agree, there is so much FUD and FOMO in crypto.

      • mskeggs on 30/11/2017 - 15:45

        In previous bubble run ups this got a name too:
        https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/pick-and-shovel-play.as…

        See the graph of NASDAQ:NVDA for another example.

        • Kangal on 04/12/2017 - 22:14
          +2

          BitCoin is the most important cryptocurrency. It has far more value and reach than Ethereum, so it is far ahead, in the market to become a legitimate (or recognised/authorised) fiat currency. Obviously governments wouldn't like them to go that far, and strip the monetary power from the government, so they can shut it down, but there's a window of opportunity to do so.

          So BitCoin has three fates:
          - it gets shut down by China, USA, Europe… making it essentially worthless
          - the bubble bursts, and the market deems it too dangerous/volatile to continue investing, so the bubble "bursts" and ends up dying of natural causes
          - it keeps growing, becomes too large to be shut down, and becomes something akin to "email" or "facebook" or "YouTube" or "Google" or "iPhone" or "Internet", an essential service/part of future society

          If BitCoin becomes recognised by countries as a currency (and less like stocks), it will be a High Tide that lifts all boats, and by boats I mean other cryptocurrencies such as Etherium, LiteCoin, Zcash, Cardano, Monero, Steem, Dash, Ethos, Ripple, Waves, NEM, Nxt, Ark, ByteCoin, BitShares (just to name some AltCoins for fellow OzBargainers to keep an eye on, apologies for the extensive research and comment beforehand). I've been watching BitCoin closely, and other cryptocurrencies passively. I realised the potential. However, the risks were more practical than hypothetical. So here's the history that I know/speculate of it:

          I only heard about BitCoin in the news on the Internet in its early days, I never really looked into it. So I definitely wasn't a follower of investor back when it was scraping USD $100 value. Or even earlier when it was $10. Or going even earlier when it was $1 or less, so I can't speak much about it. I only heard of someguy who paid for $20 worth of 2 large pizzas and delivery in the early days, with like $10 worth of BitCoins… but it was 10,000Bt, something that's worth like $200M today (and possibly $1B in the future). I came aboard when it was picking up momentum. At the time I had low self-esteem, a bad car, low-paying graduate jobs, no furniture, untrustworthy housemates, and barely $3,000 in the bank. So it definitely was wrong for me to invest gamble at a time like that. It steadily climbed from a value of around $200-$280 to a whopping $900 mark. And there where a lot of hype, but not much history or substance. I do agree with the professionals that it was in a bubble at the time. Then I saw the Mt Gox conspiracy, Tether fraud, and the BitCoin bubble burst in 2014 from its whopping $900 average (daily spikes reached as far as $1,300 around this time), all the way down to a $400 level. A lot of people lost a lot of money. Confidence was shattered. People began pulling out, heh. So it steadied on the $400 mark. I was proven right, it wasn't a scam, but it was going to die.

          Then it didn't. Reports came from China that the government was going to shutdown BitCoin, so a lot of Chinese people with Car Parks full of GPU-miners started selling off. This caused the steady $400 value to fall down, comically in a steady order, down to $200.
          What I didn't know at the time, was that it would very slowly claw itself back up to the $400 mark, then to $700 all throughout 2016 until the holiday season. I stopped paying attention. The fact that it gained momentum and value, in a steady and non-volatile means actually meant I was wrong about my previous assessment. So back to the history, it eventually broke the previous $1,000-$1,200 barrier back in late Feb 2017. The worst part of the story was that I stopped tracking the market, despite random YouTube recommended videos popping up in my feed. I also had a new car, new job, all furniture, plus better financial stability, so I didn't need anything… on top of a $20,000 savings. So it would've been the perfect time, alas. And since May, the value of BitCoin rose from the $1,200 level to $2,000 and continued to stack up all the way to December. I just spoke with a friend of a friend, who invested almost AU$7,000 around that period and it has grown to just above AU$50,000 yesterday. This steady growth from $2,000 early May followed all the way until $6,000 mid Nov. It wasn't even phased in September when China followed on their 2015-rumours and began closing down ICOs. There was a hiccup, but then it fell into high-gear in late Nov 2017 and it has gone up to $6k, then $7k, then $8k, then $9k, then $10k, then $11k, and now we're on $12k.

          Some say its in a bubble now. I think it is going to keep rising (maybe to $16k) until mid-Jan 2018, where it will fall down, possibly to around $9k value. But your guess is as good as mine. So even if you missed the massive growth periods, like the one from May 2017, you still have time if you want to invest. You can buy in early Dec, and sell in mid January after the Holiday Season High. Even if its just AU$1,000 worth you could make AU$400 over this time. I think it should be relatively stable at $9k and then slowly pick up steam throughout the year. Then I think 2018 or 2019 will be the decisive year of its mainstream growth (and it might demonstrate a "bubble burst" or "stability"). I think we will see it hit $20k in 2018. (Probably in June), so this might be a good time to re-invest if you're interested. And that if it does become legitimised, then its net value is roughly equal to $50k. This process of becoming mainstream/too large to stop (ie shrinking window of opportunity for governments to crush it) would be in the next 3 years maybe/possibly (let's see how Tokyo Olympics treat it). However, to actually legitimise/recognise/adopt it would take substantially more time, I figure at least 10 years since the Great Stability of 2016. And I think 2nd-World countries are more likely to take this step (eg South Americas), whereas 3rd-World countries are more likely to adopt it in their banks since some already use other currencies like USD/EUR/etc etc as alternative currency instead of their own, their own being unstable/subject to mass inflation. But if we go down that route, before then, we are likely to see BitCoin's value hit $100k and $150k highs, then crashing down to $20-$50k zone. And probably multiple times. Again, its only speculation, I'm basing a lot of this on the economy, past history, and Hive Mind…. mostly from my Napkin Maths doodling.

          In terms of myself, I'm going to get into it. But going to get into it smartly, by putting only what I can afford to lose, and diversifying. Probably like 45% Eth, 34% Bt, 22% AltCoins. And taking investments out in increments (eg 20% of 100% BitCoins). And if I manage to invest big, say $50,000 (that's a lot of money for me, an OzBargainer) and somehow manage to duplicate the successes of 2017 by increasing that to $500,000 then I will look into quiting my job, making it a 24/7 venture, paying off any loans, then hedging my funds to other assets like land, real estate, Gold Bullion, and even Copper Bullion (what? it's the highest density and valuable non-corrosive metal we have that has intrinsic uses, unlike Silver/Gold/Platinum. It also looks really cool). I have heard of someone who invested AU$250,000 by borrowing from the bank in April, who is looking to cash in at around AU$2 Million after paying off his debt. Basically a lifetime's worth of money, through one smart borrowing/investment gamble. But I doubt I will be that wise or lucky in my adventures.

          And of course; past performance is not an indicator of future success.

        • mskeggs on 05/12/2017 - 06:54
          +2

          @Kangal:

          Good luck to you with your bitcoin investments, I would just point out a couple of points:
          -past performance is not an indicator of future success.

          Of course, but half your comment is about how others made good (if they sell now!) on past decisions. The only way BTC is a good investment is if it is cheap now. I argue it isn't, but speculators may prove me wrong. Bear in mind that while you are talking about multi-year investment terms, a great many people trading in BTC are thinking in hours, and will flee like rats in any downturn.

          -ie shrinking window of opportunity for governments to crush it
          This is the crux to me. The inherent advantage of BTC for many (most?) is its ability to skirt currency and tax controls. You argue that it will reach a critical mass, making it immune to regulation. I think very much the opposite, and it will be sidelined to protect government revenue.
          How? Take a look at how the USA dealt with gold hoarding in the depression: https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/gold_reserve_ac…
          The government made it illegal to own gold (except jewellery) and set its price for new discoveries or industrial use.
          Imagine the same law in China, but applying to BTC, and with a death penalty for breaching it. Let me assure you, gold had much more of a "critical mass" that BTC will have.
          And, of course, the governments of the world have a strong motivation to regulate BTC, and they own the guns necessary to see their wishes come to pass.

          It may be that BTC will climb ten fold from here, to $2T market cap - that isn't unimaginable, and it would still just be a speed hump to governments (for comparison, the value of all gold is around $7T). But I am completely positive if it becomes more than a minor irritation for governments, no amount of critical mass will prevent it from being regulated, with consequent huge losses for holders.

          I don't want to be holding an item with no physical worth should it be regulated out of existence.

        • Kangal on 05/12/2017 - 08:51

          @mskeggs:

          Thanks, I figured you would be one of the more intellectual members here to voice your thoughts.

          I was a skeptic. Still am a skeptic. But time and time, BitCoin proves me wrong.
          It almost has enough momentum to push ahead the troubles of its past. I mean in September, China was cracking down on BitCoin which should've been the end of it (70% of mining is in China). They didn't do this previously in 2015, but were rumoured to do it, and that rumour alone caused BitCoin to drop its value from $400 to $200, and keep it down for nearly two years. Now in September, they actually took action. Yet that barely registered a blip on the market. And after a couple days, it began to rise in value.

          So if the value of BitCoin is around $50k, which I estimated using napkin maths, then even at the all-time high of $10k-$12k it really is cheap. Again, it is speculation but so is everything. So someone who recklessly invests their half-life savings of AUD$50,000 today may actually see their investment grow to AUD$250,000 in a few years. And if they are smarter, they could gamble this savings now and pull out before it deflates. Then re-invest and pull out. And do this several times, which I expect the market would follow. And have something closer to AUD$500,000 build up. And I stated how BitCoin is likely to hit $150k bubble some years later, then burst, coming back down to $40k and stabilising around $50k… based on my napkin maths.
          So people can still make a killing later on. Or they can lose a lot. Probably both.
          (….for anyone reading this from the future, take out your half-million investment, and store it in Gold Bullions as that is far less influenced by Bitcoin, by the dollar, and can be used in any country. Copper Bars would be even better, as they hold value AND are a useful commodity in growing/developed nations, but you would need thousands of tonnes of it, instead of like a couple kilograms.)

          You're right about Tax Avoidance, but the crux of my argument is: force. The government has a lot of power and resources under its belt, much more than an individual or even large groups. Case in point: Eureka Stockade.
          The governments won't ask to compartmentalise and shut-out BitCoin.
          They will do it by force. And use the media to divide and confuse the public.
          That way they can ensure as little resistance as possible.

          However, if BitCoin becomes a commodity in itself. That is, it becomes valuable because of value that people see in its uses and existence, then it would be a different story. Imagine if Bitcoin grew to become as popular/adopted as Facebook. I think where we are now, we have come a long way since the inception of Btc, however, it is still more likely that it will be a "bubble" that bursts like the DotCom crash in the late 90's… rather than something that becomes mainstream. It would be difficult to shut it out/kill it, and a lot of people would object. Despite this Facebook has been banned in China, Russia, Turkey before. So yes, it can be contained/killed and anyone who thinks not, is deluded or doesn't know their history.

          However, if the primary countries (USA, Canada, UK, Australia, NZ, South Africa) lineup to kill something that was used by the people, you can expect a lot of backlash. Possibly even overthrowing of the government, to install a new governing body. It's not impossible, it's not even improbable. It's hard to imagine it now in the 2000's, but it certainly wasn't long ago 1800's when this was still going on. Otherwise, the masses might just ignore the government and circumvent their policies. Do you remember the Prohibition Ban in America?

          I think the government might look at cryptocurrency. Take the technology out. Improve on it/customise it for themselves. Then start a federal crypto (eg Australian Bit Dollars = ABD), and run it in secret. They have access to much more computer hardware (and specialised), direct access to internet lines, and much cheaper electricity. They could run it, and build it to maturity without public's notice, make reforms, announce it, open it to public use, assert control over it. Probably not USA or Europe, as they are weighed by their existing structure. While Canada, Australia, and New Zealand would be forced by other nations to stop. However, I could see other smaller countries like South America adopting it. Russia is a coin toss, I could see it as beneficial to them, but I don't think they will do so. Whereas China could definitely do it, since, they have their own Internet there. And electricity. And hardware. And far-reaching laws and influence.

          Your case about the gold hoarding. That was a necessary step the USA did to control their currency during the Great Depression. It was more about controlling the public, than controlling companies. Just before the crash, thousands of people took to Wall Street to cash-out their stocks. If people traded their cash for gold, in the same way, the USA wouldn't have been able to handle the demand as they didn't have enough in reserves. So its not an Apples to Apples comparison, as there were major differences in the economy. I think that Gold is still the, ahem, Gold Standard, when it comes to value holding. It's been that way for thousands of years. So it has the stability of a thousands year history… whereas the fiat currency of a nation does not, even much less in the case of BitCoin.

      • murkywater on 01/12/2017 - 18:35
        +10

        WOw man you are all over the place. Next time do your research on how to store the coins before buying them. Might just be best to buy a hardware wallet, however based on what I'm reading in this thread, best for you to stay away from crypto.

  • holoz0r on 30/11/2017 - 19:30
    +3

    If you blog, go to Steemit, it is like reddit, but you make money when people upvote your posts.

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