So I just realised I got a fine when I'm about to renew my car rego. And it was because I accidentally used fog light.
I remember that at that the police told me that it will be just warning. But now I got this $215 fine for just using up a fog light.
I think $215 is a bit too much for this type of fine.
What does everyone think of it?
I have a 2016 wrx sti. The drl's are in the fog lights. So when I do switch over to the fog lights, they're more powerful, but can be mistaken as the drl's.
Poor OP though. I was driving my old car with red parker lights at night with the headlights off and the dark yellow fog lights on and only got a warning. Highway Patrol as well. Yes, stupid, I know, I learnt my lesson.
It's the luck of the draw with police officers.
maybe your memory was fogged and you mist the part where he fined you
thanks for the giggles m8
Most upvotes I’ve seen for a comment. Good to see Dad Jokes aren’t dead-well done…
does it even matter of what you think and what we think ?
the amount is fixed and not what the officer thinks whatever he likes
you can try appeal, but tough luck
savage af
Not really, it's a pretty fair response to a question like this.
the amount is fixed and not what the officer thinks whatever he likes
Actually, in NSW the legislation prescribes a maximum penalty. For some reason, the police officers always levy the maximum penalty. A judge can reduce the penalty.
That is certainly not the case. All offences in NSW are from a Fixed Penalty Handbook. Whether a speed camera gets you, a council ranger or a police officer, they are all set by SDRO in both amount and points.
You'll also find that they are nowhere near the maximum penalties.
https://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2014/75…
Driver using a mobile phone is around $330 for a fixed penalty notice. Any person issuing an infringement can only fine for that amount.
The maximum penalty prescribed by legislation is 20 penalty units. A penalty unit in NSW is $110, therefore a court can impose up to a $2200 fine.
Get your facts right before you try to correct someone.
He's right that the judge can reduce the fine, but you're taking a gamble. The judge will most likely uphold it, he/she might reduce it, or if he/she doesn't like you or the circumstance they might increase it.
A realistic comments. The fine was issued for you breaking the law, just pay the fine and move on. No matter if you think it's justified or not. Whinging won't fix the outcome.
NSW
tag is that he's based in NSW not WA
The tag was changed. I did the same thing. It had NO state mentioned, so i went off OP's profile location. It was then changed to "NSW" after these replies had been made.
If OP was fined in NSW from Perth the lights were too damn bright!
Yeah, would have been $100 if you used code "tightarse2018" but coupon expired so its back at $215.
This was posted about a year ago and the cheapest its been was $80.
So i've negged it as it was only a 1hr deal.
He was unlucky by being fined when it was pricejacked just before the 20% discount period came in.
Wow, something went wrong there… Assuming you are still in Perth, WA, the WA Gov website says…
Inappropriate use of headlights / high beams / fog lights (Fine=) $100 (Demerits=) 1
Not the $218 you are claiming. Did you not pay it, shirk it off or forget to pay and they added other charges on? Was it multiple charges? If it is a single fine, ask them what it is all about as the WA Gov website says $100, not $218.
Posters location is set as "PERTH" and at the time of replying, the topic said "Got Fine for Using Fog Lights" and made NO mention of NSW. It was changed as I replied.
It was changed 11 mins ago. My post was "posted" 11 mins ago. I wrote it before I submitted it. It took me 5 mins to research and write it. So I started when it said nothing about NSW.
As soon as I hit submit, and the page reloaded, the topic had changed. I went back to amend my original statement, but you had already replied and locked me out of doing that.
Learn to understand context.
Seems fair to me.
Seems fine to me.
Seems clear to me.
Night and day!
I haven't the foggiest why anyone would need light shed on it.
Phone is fine
I'm fine with it…
Seems there's quite a few uptight people on ozbargain judging by the number of down votes for having a sense of humor
Too much - yes
Can we do anything about it - No
rules are rules… doesn't mean i like them either, but why the f would have fog lights running on in the day? doesn't help the cause or do anything for you… if you want to be seen, there's DRL for a reason
the fog lights won't help you see much more in normal conditions at all - if you think lights are not bright enough, make sure you clean the headlight housing or upgrade to legal brighter lights
What is DRL?
Motorbikes are encouraged to turn on Headlights.
On overcast showery days dark coloured cars can be difficult
to see.
ie white and yellow cars are cheaper to insure)
Headlights aren’t fog lights. They’re designed to not blind other motorists. Fog lights are designed to illuminate a wide area with no height restrictions.
DRL = Daytime Running Lights. They are low brightness lights used on cars to make them easier to see during the day. They are usually small LED lights in the front and rears of cars that are on at all times.
If anyone else wants to know the difference between DRL and fog lights… You can read about them here;
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 76/00 - Daytime Running Lamps) 2006
Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 50/00 - Front Fog Lamps) 2006
Most common motorcycles don't have a choice. Headlights are on as soon as the bike is on.
Daylight Running Lights relay on the parking brake switch which engages the parking lights when the hand brake is off. LED Daylight Running Lights are an additional bank of LEDs in the front light housing. LED positioning lights are similar LEDs, but run off the park light switch.
@whooah1979: fog lights are designed to shine low and close to the vehicle so as not to light up the fog and make it harder to see. Driving lights are to light up ‘more’ and ‘everything’
@whooah1979:
That's true but I'm yet to see front fog lights that would even remotely disturb me and I've been driving for 18 years. Now the rear fog lights are a completely different story. Why would people knowingly use them not in thick fog is beyond my comprehension.
@whooah1979: The foglights on old WRXs are aimed down from factory. They're to illuminate the road, not the surroundings ahead.
Absolutely.
It enrages me when douchebags drive with their high intensity tail lights on in clear weather.
If it's torrential rain and visibility is severely limited, use them. Otherwise, don't be a dckhead. All you're doing is blinding the vehicles behind.
I'm convinced some people get in their car and activate every switch they can find.
What defines daytime? It is better to have a clear law that that states when you can use them ie. during adverse weather conditions where visibility is low. Fog lights are actually for the benefit of other drivers so they can see YOU.
What defines daytime?
This is from the NSW RMS handbook on vehicle lighting;
Your headlights must be on when:
- Driving between sunset and sunrise
- At any other time when there is not enough daylight to be able to see a person wearing dark clothing at a distance of 100 metres
Then onto:
is better to have a clear law that that states when you can use them
And there are clear rules for where and when you can use your lights;
NSW Road Rules - 2014. Part 13. Div 1.
218–1 NSW rule: using lights on vehicles generally
Yeah I think you backed up everything I said.
Ninjas!
og lights are actually for the benefit of other drivers so they can see YOU.
Front fog lights work in fog to light up below the fog. The back ones are just brighter to penetrate the fog and warn others of any other vehicle.
Australian roads and road rules are designed to safely accommodate the worst 10% of drivers. That means 3 second gaps, two second reaction times, 100km/h speed limits and no distracting lights.
If you want better drivers and looser rules, I suggest you give this list of countries a good read.
Alternatively, if safety is not your thing, a different starting point would be this list, sorted descending, 'Road fatalities per 100,000 motor vehicles.'
/s
immagine national road rules with common sense, 10% harder tests and we could drive 30% faster with less fatalices
Our road rules biggest limitation is physiology, not common sense, hence we allow for a 2 second response time. That's why the first link goes to a list of countries participating in modern eugenics.
Mean reaction times are around .75 seconds. Racing drivers often have reaction times around .2 seconds. But people with nerve damage can be far worse. People with in some mental states can have significantly different reaction times for various reasons. Reaction time could be affected by a child crying or exhaustion from working to pay off a mortgage. It also allows many disabled people mobility.
That said, our road rules are already common sense. Like don't drive with your fog lights on unless needed because you might daze someone (like driving over a rise in the shade). There are plenty of people here arguing otherwise.
Fog lights aim up and blind* other drivers. They're only meant to be used in (wait for it…) fog.
* For clarity, I'm using blind in the sense of "temporarily disrupt their vision", not "totally and irreversably destroy their sight".
Are they actually fog lights or daytime driving lights ? Maybe you can contest the fine ?
If you can turn them on and off then they are fog or driving lights. If they are just on, then DRL.
so you can't turn off DRL ? really ??
Well that is my understanding. Car on, DRL on, no switches. Happy to be given an example where they are switchable.
@Euphemistic: I can't be bothered to research the Adrian, but I know DRL's in Canada and USA come on when the engine starts and often (definitely not always) turn off when the park brake is applied.
You are partially right. If the lights come on automatically, regardless of time of day and are under ADR regarded as low power/brightness, then yes, those would be DRL lights.
However, some cars will allow you to go into the settings and turn this feature off. Classic example of this is the BMW iDrive system. You can even store your preference on your keyfob. So, if you want them on and your wife/husband/life partner doesn’t, it can be set up like that.
But you are right in the case that fog lights should NOT come on automatically and usually have to be activated by the driver. But in saying that, my old Toyota Aurion had a setting where in a certain position, the fog lights were always on when the headlights were on, but never on "all the time".
The easiest way to tell DRL from fogs is that fogs can be high output and very bright. DRL are limited to between 400 and 1200cd. (ie: about as bright as your average 500lm LED OzB special torch.)
@pegaxs: That makes sense. The premise being that the DRL are on when you drive it off the lot and if you have to stab a button to turn them on the first time you drive, then they aren't DRL.
I've had a few cars. One where the fog/driving lights needed to be activated after each time you turn the ign on. that is, they reset to off when you stop the car. Other cars have a physical switch that allows you to leave them active, but they only come on when the headlights (or parking lights) are switched on.
I haven't owned a car with DRL, but when I read some rules about them recently I was surprised to find that they are supposed to turn off when the headlights come on, some modern cars don't seem to do this. It was an info page on a website though, so may not be 100% correct.
@Euphemistic: Mine has DRL but it's all set to Auto
There are a few settings and the police have kinda given up on it. apart from fog explanation below.
Rain - helps you see better without impacting other drivers nothing like a high beam doesn't increase rear lights
Fog - We don't really get a lot of it that warrants the use of it but to me it appears like a diffused high beam (biggest tell to other cars is from the rear, one normally lights up twice as bright as the other just so cars have more of a chance seeing you or you may have an independent one)
Since the introduction of DRL this rear light are the cars they go after for this fine as it's the easiest to prove.
Unless you have something like the older WRX that had large independent ones on the front.
Night - High beam works on sensors turn on when no vehicle is sensed and no light coming towards you and dips as soon as an oncoming car comes into range.
Also has an auto setting for all mirrors - changes all mirrors so if a car comes up from behind with high beam on you don't get blinded.
The police are becoming a lot more efficient at ticketing and use the cams so if he said he wasn't going to fine you they normally have that recorded to challenge and should be able to challenge if he said it was a warning.
@Euphemistic:
Chrysler SRT8 6.4L drl's are certainly switchable in the settings menu. When indicating, that side turns off too!
@F111: Sorry i should have said i set all of mine to Auto out of convenience, but yes you can turn the whole lot off if need be.
Same with the indicator it changes from DRL to indicator, I'm not sure why they even chose to call them DRL as they essentially stay on the whole time.
Anyway, all the WA and changed topic aside. Now that we know it is from NSW and I cant change my other original post…
Laws in NSW for Fog lights: NSW Road Rules - 2014 (218-1)
The driver of a vehicle must not:
(a) use any fog light fitted to the vehicle unless the driver is driving in fog, mist or under other atmospheric conditions that restrict visibility
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
From the RMS General Traffic Infringement book:
Rule 218-1 (a) "Use fog light when not permitted" (Fine=) $110 (Demerit=) 2
So, my original comment still stands. Why is it $215?? was there two items on the ticket? I would call and ask why the ticket is $215 when the RMS website says it is only $110.
Were they charging per light??
5$ Discount for having 2 working ones
Why is it illegal to have your fog lights on?
Because you could be imparing other drivers' vision.
Isn't that your highbeams? I thought fog lights faced the same angle + direction like your main headlights?
You could impair other drivers' vision with either lights.
Not correct sorry. Foglights are not like low beam. They will blind incoming traffic, similar to high beam, which is why you are only allowed to use them in foggy conditions (in Vic at least).
@Presence: fog lights are designed to shine light low, under the fog. If they were like high beam they’d just do exactly like the high beam does and light up the fog making it harder to see. They should not blind other traffic because they are set so low.
Driving lights are a different matter. They shine high to light up more.
@Euphemistic: Theres a variety of foglights. The factory ones on a new Merc are gonna be better calibrated than the huge ones on an old WRX but I do completely agree they should go under the fog for optimal performance.
I think fog lights have more of a 'flood' effect rather than a 'spot/highbeam' style of lighting.
@Presence: WRX fog lights, at least 2005 and earlier, aim lower than your low beams, so no, they don't blind incoming traffic.
@ronnknee:
I absolutely hate it when (young) people turn on their rear fog lights (particularly in Toyota 86) thinking it's cool to have it on.
@ronnknee: I guess, didn't think OP was talking about the rear fog light though. Your comments are all talking about front fog lights, so that's wh I responded talking about front ones.
@MrFunSocks:
Agree. I think fog lights are different for different cars.
The key if they are dazzling other people, then you get a fine.
I drive around during the day with my parkers and fog lights on for visibility as I live in QLD and no one seems to know how to drive here so I use every precaution possible to avoid an accident.
Someone is looking for a fine.
@Euphemistic: The fog lights are barely brighter than the park lights so it is impossible that it would impare someone's vision. I have been pulled over and passed many highway patrol vehicles using them and have never had a problem, so I think the people being fined are using some pretty strong bulbs in their fog lights.
@mdogxxx: you wouldnt have to be dazzling incoming drivers to receive a fine. The rule is no fog lights, not no dazzling fog lights. If the copper is having a slow day he might just pull you over to get something on his books for the day.
Sounds like you’ve just been lucky so far not to be booked.
If you want to be seen during the day and you don’t have drl there is nothing wrong with using your headlights on low beam - it’s more legal than using your fog lights.
Op, thank you for your donation to the up keep of nsw roads. It’s a shame that there aren’t more infringement notices issueed for this type of offences.
https://www.powerbulbs.com/au/blog/2017/12/fog-lights-daytim…
DRL - Daytime Running Lights
after reading link info still seems a bullshit money raiser.
Fog lights are super annoying in clear weather conditions - especially back facing red ones. At a quick glance they can be difficult to distinguish from brake lights and are often annoyingly bright.
Hyundai Excels come to mind as one where many drivers seem to always have them on and are annoying to be behind.
I think all new European car drivers are clueless and don't know how their lights work. Countless drivers with their white LED fog lights on.
White LED foglights?
Are you sure those aren't the DRLs? (all new European cars have them fitted)
That would account for some of them.
I agree, it is not so much the front fog lights but a lot of cars have brighter rear lights when the fog lights are turned on, and most owners do not realise this.
Annoyingly bright as you say.
I do occasionally flash mine on at night when people are tailgating me.
State revenue coffers send you thanks for their support. Bear in mind the flood of dash cams. Never hassle the car behind you there is practically never a valid reason to do so. All one can do legally is to slow down till the tailgater gets the message. If you get too many install a dashcam on your rear!
Rear facing fog lights are insanely annoying and should never be used outside of fog.
I've never had an issue with front fog lights though, at least factory fitted ones. By design they are meant to put out light low to the ground, lower than the main headlights, so they can shine down underneath fog.
The ones on my car are very useful for lighting up more of the road next to the kerbside, this gives me better vision of pedestrians, cyclist, dogs, roos etc. It's also good to see things on the road surface like potholes or debris.
Fog lights directing light low and nearer the front of the vehicle can actually make it harder to see the normal distance. It’s sometgubg to do with your eye overcompensating or focusing on the near more easily to the detriment of distance.
Got Fine for Using Fog Lights [NSW]
How fine? Are we talking a strong 8? Or a unicorn?
crazy. I would dispute it at court. Nothing but revenue raising.
Almost as bad as driving with thongs on = fine in NSW i think……what a joke!
WRX?