Fight Back or Roll Over - Work

EDM on 22/05/2018 - 18:37
Last edited 22/05/2018 - 18:40

Hi All,

I am having an issue at work where I have been employed for about 13 months, and I fear for my job and also my mental well being.

Some concerns have been raised about my performance at the end of my probation, however they are unfounded and not true. Whilst there are parts that I agree with, it appears they are trying to get rid of me. I have access to unfair dismissal but that appears to be a huge headache of a path that I don't really want to go down.

Is it better to roll over and agree with the concerns that have been raised or provide a response outlining my side of the story with the truth/alongside some agreement?

Happy to hear anyone's experiences.

Thanks,

EDM

EDIT: To add, I am a public servant and the union advised me to roll over, which is the reason for this thread.

Education & Work

Comments

  • mbck on 22/05/2018 - 18:43
    +9

    Union already advised you and that's with them knowing the full details. Now us ozbargainers just have a glimpse of what's going on…so I'll make you feel better.

    FIGHT. don't roll over. FIGHT. You got this mate.

    ps, I'm not liable for whatever comes your way

    • EDM on 22/05/2018 - 18:52

      Thanks mbck for the motivation! Unfortunately the person at the union didn't have a half a clue as to any employment laws so I'm not sure how much I can trust their word. I also have concerns about bullying and intimidation which they didn't seem to think much of - my supervisor yelled at me for requesting evidence of non-performance.

      • Caped Baldy on 22/05/2018 - 18:59
        +1

        Wow the yelling is very concerning. If you go through dismissal for poor performance there needs to be a formal process followed. This will be typically be through performance management. They will need evidence of poor performance so request it via email.

        It seems to be a toxic environment, look for another job but request that evidence so they can't give you the boot. Keep fighting.

        • EDM on 22/05/2018 - 19:05

          According to my employment agreement, the probation period is my performance management system. I have already served a probation which was completed successfully under a different agreement however they decided to put me through it once again.

          Yup, definitely a toxic environment. I've had 4 supervisors over the past year and about the same have left the team (out of 8 or so people).

        • original15 on 22/05/2018 - 20:30

          @EDM:
          wait what? you completed initial probation (lets say 6 months?) but then they put you through another probation? were you aware of that at time of initial probation ending?
          if so..i guess thats what they will use as evidence of under-performance or performance plan

        • EDM on 22/05/2018 - 20:33

          @original15: Yeah, I completed an initial probation of 3 months when I was on a fixed term agreement. It was not an extended probation but on engagement of my permanent position another probation period applied for 6 months.

      • Icecold5000 on 22/05/2018 - 21:37

        Roll over and then start looking for another job. Once you have that bail immediately.

        They believe what they want to believe and unless you're expecting and can fund litigation what's the point of fighting it.

  • tsunamisurfer on 22/05/2018 - 18:45
    +1

    The default position would be to stand your ground and go through the process of justifying why their concerns are not founded (citing examples).

    As your mental wellbeing is impacted, it may be better off for you to leave. What are your prospects of finding another role quickly? Finances also come into play as you may have bills to pay.

    • EDM on 22/05/2018 - 18:49
      +1

      Thanks tsunamisurfer. Needed to hear that, most of the concerns raised remain to be proven by management.

      I am looking for another job however, I would like to leave on my own ground. I believe that if I get terminated it will make things a lot worse for me.

      • Donaldhump on 22/05/2018 - 19:02
        +1

        Keep a resignation letter in your pocket, or even better if you are quick enuf write one on a banana peel, and if you are ever dragged in to a room to be fired, whip it out and beat them to it.

        Tell them to file the banana peel too.

        Are u being asked to sign a warning letter

        For what it’s worth it’s pretty hard to fire someone unless they gross misconduct, I’d fight it and if fired, fight it again, if you believe your being wronged.

        Don’t stress, your next job may be perfect

        • EDM on 22/05/2018 - 19:09

          Hahaha made me laugh. Thanks.

          I'm being asked to agree or disagree with comments/concerns made in a probation report. I have the opportunity to provide my comments too.

          Certainly hope so!

        • AutomationGuy on 22/05/2018 - 20:37
          +1

          @EDM:

          If you say you agree with all the comments you will have no leg to stand on later if you do end up with an unfair dismissal.

          I would disagree with some elements but keep the comments very cordial and non-combative. I suggest getting somebody external to the situation to read over the comments before you submit them. The purpose here is purely to have your objection noted not to shift blame or make change.

          At the same time, continue to look for work. This does sound toxic.

        • EDM on 22/05/2018 - 20:46

          @Joshm12: This is exactly my concern, even though I am trying to not go down that path it would be nice to know that it was available if I changed my mind within the 21 or so days. I also feel that if I agree with what they say, say 'yes I will develop myself' etc, that it may further used against me for termination.

          Thanks for your tips, I'll be sure to do that.

  • Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead on 22/05/2018 - 19:23
    +6

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

  • whooah1979 on 22/05/2018 - 19:31

    the union advised me to roll over,

    They’re right. You pay union fees so that they may help to keep you employed.

  • onetwothreefour on 22/05/2018 - 20:00
    -2

    It's so hard to get rid of underperformers these days, just move on and find something you are better at.

  • TheBilly on 22/05/2018 - 20:11
    +2

    Dude, Id just start looking for a new job. Its just a place you work, impacting your mental health is not worth it. Start looking for a new job, do not tell anyone, once you have something just leave.

  • Quantumcat on 22/05/2018 - 20:12

    I don't know the right thing to do, but it is really important to make at least some people be happy with you before you look for another job so you'll have a reference.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2018 - 20:18

    It would take an extraordinary turnaround from both parties to make this a happy and productive working relationship - the sort of job you want to turn up to each day.

    Your best bet is to resign and get a new job.

    • EDM on 22/05/2018 - 20:31

      Absolutely I agree, I have given up on trying to make this job work for me. That attitude may be affecting my performance as of recent however not to the extent that they've mentioned.

      I'm weighing up trying to win over the probation, keeping the job for 2 or so more months and getting out when the going is good. I would resign right now but I'm afraid of not having a job to get another.

      Am I being silly?

      • [Deactivated] on 22/05/2018 - 20:45
        +2

        Sometimes things don’t work out, and that’s fine. That shouldn’t have to have a lasting impact on your career. You’re better off getting out early, rather than getting ‘stuck’ in a job and becoming miserable.

        If you want to wait a couple of months before resigning, in order to look for another job, that’s fine. But be honest with your employer. You may be able to avoid both parties unnecessary and awkward performance conversations. And it may make your last two months more bearable.

        I do genuinely believe that honesty and transparency is a good approach.

      • Quantumcat on 22/05/2018 - 21:54
        +1

        You aren't being silly. But make sure you know what things would go on your permanent record and what won't. If you want to get another public service job in future.

  • thatonethere on 22/05/2018 - 20:28

    Generally for the public service six months is the maximum probation (or Minimum Employment Period - MEP) as per Fair Work legislation. So seems odd you will be under probation for 13 months.

    If you want to keep the job - just say you are surprised about the concerns and find out what exactly their recommendation is to improve in their eyes. Ask for additional assistance/training to help you. Given they have exceeded their probation period they will have to put you on performance management which is fairly labour intensive for all involved and unless your work is extremely regimented and easily assessed - and you do the minimum and don't do obviously dumb things - you will be fine.

    • EDM on 22/05/2018 - 20:35

      I've been on probation for a total of about 9 months, 3 of which were when I was in my fixed term role. When I took my permanent role they placed me on probation again. My first probation was successfully completed 100%. Thanks for your message. I am very much surprised about the concerns that have come up - no feedback on my performance has been raised until this point.

  • 2jzzzz on 22/05/2018 - 20:34
    +2

    Mate, contact the union again and always demand someone from the union accompanies you to any formal meetings.

    • EDM on 22/05/2018 - 20:38

      I'm in Melbourne and my union doesn't have an office down here otherwise that'd be the plan - they have to dial in to any meetings! Not quite the same unfortunately.

      EDIT: I just checked, they do have an office in Melbourne. Not sure what my representative was on about.

      • pernunz on 23/05/2018 - 12:08
        +1

        If your rep wasn't aware of this I would speak to someone else about advice for your employment situation

      • ozbjunkie on 24/05/2018 - 00:10
        +1

        Get another rep, yours is a dud.

        Fight of you need the job, leave if you don't.

        Ask for the evidence either way.

  • Hardlyworkin on 22/05/2018 - 22:01
    +4

    You've got as much chance getting decent advice on here as you do a union rep. Unions can be a great help when it's an issue affecting a bunch of members though less so in your situation.

    Btw you may find you get put on another performance plan after your current one is finished. That's the public service way. I only ever saw one result when it got to that stage…

    Either where you work is terrible, you're a shite employee or the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

    Time to ramp up the job apps, cancel any plans for the weekend, replying to selection criteria it is.

  • farknos on 23/05/2018 - 09:19

    your union rep was just trying to avoid helping you.
    they want your money but as an individual you have very little chance of being supported by them.
    they will flush you down the toilet before they support you.
    as others have stated look for another job.

  • minniethemoocher on 23/05/2018 - 13:08

    My friend was in the same boat as you on probabation and she fought it and won. She was also in the public service. But please take on board what they are telling you about your performance. Like it or not some of it will be true. If you don’t want to spend your whole working career being performance managed.

  • gconboy on 23/05/2018 - 20:26

    You have plenty of ammunition if you want to fight it. The fact that after you finished your fixed term role they hired you into a permanent role means they must have been happy with your performance. I would argue that the second probation period shouldn't have applied as you already had completed a probation (even if it is in the contract). Also you have been working for nine months before getting any feedback regarding poor performance which is unreasonable.

    It sounds like they haven't been managing you well.

    You could ask if they will give you a payout.

    I would fight it if you think it's unreasonable and you like the job.

  • Melb69 on 24/05/2018 - 04:11

    I just got retrenched due to issues employer had with me. In their opinion. Sure we can all do better. But when the boss pulls you up as the phone call was to long and doesn't put in place a stategy to address that for me is that my fault. I was not in my opinion on 15min calls all the time. In any event I never left on time or asked for overtime. The writing was on the wall. OP if your not happy there look for another job while there. Get the new job and leave. If you like it there fight it and see if they can suggest options assistance on how to improve in writing and regular updates on where your at. Might help you get better. I started a phone log and timer on calls, but it was all to late.

  • green0 on 08/06/2018 - 09:54

    Play the game to your hand. If they want to get rid if you they will. Best outcome for you is a redundancy. Don't waist time and energy proving you have been mistreated.

    1. Any emails sent to you regarding your performance, or lack of always respond in the positive "I will endeavor to address your concerns…..blar blar".

    2. Start looking for a new gig now.

    Best case you get redundancy and new gig, and some sanity back.

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