[AMA] Im a Luxury Car Broker and Financier - Ask Me Anything

Hey All,
Im a mostly-retired motor vehicle broker with extensive experience in brokering new cars, negotiating and structuring finance.

Im fortunate to have a diverse background from dealer sales, corporate sales, finance, product management, and I am happy to share my knowledge, advise on any deals (this is ozbargain after all!) as im passionate about cars and the industry as a whole.

Ask me anything you like.

im not associated with any brand or broker or store.

EDIT - thanks for the interest and your questions - hope the ozb community is finding it interest. Just a reminder to please check the thread first and see whether the question may have already been answered earlier

closed Comments

  • +1

    On a whole would you say it was true that if you're a good negotiator you can achieve the same result as a broker? (Large metro cities etc.)

    • +1

      Good question - yes if you are an exceptional negotiator you can achieve the same (or better) result than a broker, but on the whole most people individualyl are unable to achieve a result that the combination of skills and buying power of brokers can.

    • what if you're looking at a brand like Porsche & there are very few dealers around & no trade in, so hard to play one against the other.

      • +4

        Porsche are a difficult brand to buy well on due to simple supply and demand dynamics but yes discounts can still be had, a broker will earn their money here vs trying to negotiate by yourself.

        Brokers (or specialists with relationships with porsche like myself) are also better at obtaining factory allocations of GT spec cars - sometimes its just about getting one and not the price when you're talking about the porsche GT cars

  • +1

    what do you drive ?

    • +6

      Currently, F80 BMW M3

      • Nice.

      • +1

        What did you pay for it?

        What should I pay for a BMW M2 Pure?

        • +1

          @bigblueit:

          Thanks.

        • +83

          @bigblueit: The last A in AMA means anything. No point in an AMA if the good questions don't get answered.

        • +13

          @nomoneynoproblems: Ask anything doesn't mean they need to answer it. Lookup the protection services guy AMA he avoided loads of questions

        • +15

          @nomoneynoproblems: Technically he answered the question by saying he wont disclose it :) Taking a leaf out of the politicians book.

        • +18

          @altinvestor:

          What should I pay for a BMW M2 Pure?

          BMW M2 Pure - 91k

          Found one for $88,900. Saved you the commission! Hahaha

          BMW M2 Pure

        • +17

          @altinvestor: What's the problem with disclosing the price you paid? It's not like the OP asked you to disclose your address and phone number. If you aren't going to answer legitimate and genuinely interesting questions, why are you starting an AMA?

        • @SnakeCasablanca:

          duplicate

        • -4

          @CocaKoala:

          This is not a thread about my own personal affairs. Perhaps teh question should be what is a good price for a BMW m3 - currently thats about $130k for a competition pack.

          Please show me in the thread so far where i have not answered each and every question put to me apart from this one.

        • +10

          @SnakeCasablanca:
          realise there is a difference between a new and a used car…

        • +12

          @altinvestor: How much did you pay for that car is hardly a personal question, considering the fact that you're a car broker, this thread is about getting good deals on cars, and the question was about the price you paid for a car.

          Perhaps teh question should be what is a good price for a BMW m3 - currently thats about $130k for a competition pack.

          Perhaps you should try and understand the meaning of "Ask Me Anything" instead of telling people what they should ask. Why don't you do one up on it and publish an FAQ, because that would let you ask and answer all on your own. It's much different to an AMA though.

        • +3

          @CocaKoala: mate I'm not obliged to give an answer to each and every question and Ill decide if it's personal or not - we good?

        • +23

          @altinvestor: Mate, so long as you understand that it's ridiculous to create an AMA and decide not to answer random questions by classifying it as "personal" and justifying it; then yes, we good. What a waste of time.

        • +10

          @altinvestor:

          Honestly, dude. Your car is chump change compared to what people pay for property and cars in AUS. Why so secretive?

        • +6

          @altinvestor: did you really need to keep arguing back with the community? Could have avoided all this and just told us what you paid for the M3. Hardly a personal question - its a bloody car, we're not asking for your salary or your godamn number plate. If it really is a good price it would have only added to your credibility as a car broker.

        • +34

          @havok44: Fine - im going to respond but this is my last reply to this particular thread. I lease my car on a rolling 6 month lease, i didn't buy it outright - i have an arrangement with particular dealer group where they replace my car each 6 months, how attractive that is depends on what business we have done together over that last 6 months… hopefully you understand why i didn't answer initially

        • +22

          @altinvestor:

          Now that is an insight worthy of an AMA. Thanks for sharing!

        • +3

          @SnakeCasablanca

          Found one for $88,900. Saved you the commission! Hahaha

          That is a year old used car advertised as a demo because it is low km.


          The bullying above is disgusting.

        • @This Guy: Hence the "Hahaha". There is no sarcasm font but the hahaha is the best that I could do. Cheers

        • -1

          @This Guy: Also… If you believe the above comments are 'disgusting' and 'bullying', good luck with life mate. Its much harder than that! :)

        • +1

          @altinvestor: Thats pretty cool. Very jealous as I dont think anyone outside the industry could set up something like that. Appreciate your response though

        • -1

          @SnakeCasablanca:

          Life is easy. The level of entitlement shown above was disgusting. I don't care how you justify it.

        • +3

          @This Guy:

          I'm enjoying this fight lol

          Starts an AMA then gets pissed when asked how much he paid for his own car

          LOL

  • what is the average discount you are able to negotiate for luxury brands?

    Merc, Lexus, BMW, Audi, etc..

    • +4

      Discounts vary significantly on model to model within each brand as they are heavily influenced by factory/manufacturer incentives.
      Ive done deals with discounts of over 30% but they are exceptional and rare circumstances.

      If i had to pick a number, between 12-15% is average across luxury makes and models.

      If you are pushing for something exceptional, finance from the dealership can sometimes be the factor on getting the deal done or not.

      • If that is the case, how much do you reckon I should pay for brand new?

        1) X1 25i
        2) X3 30i
        3) NX300 ft sports
        4) RX300
        5) GLC250

        Thanks in advance

        • +3

          1) X1 25i - low $50s
          2) X3 30i - $86k

          id have to look into the others in some more detail but have recently transacted those 2 models above so am comfortable with the numbers.

          Direct Message me if you want my assistance but i would suggest you narrow down what you want to buy before getting into negotations.

        • +50

          @ykwon10: He's doing us a favour, don't give him a bloody shopping list!

        • +4

          @HighAndDry: a disgusting shopping list too!

        • +6

          @HighAndDry: FYI he is a car broker. If he is not complaining, I am not sure why you are. BTW, AMA means "ask me ANYTHING"!

        • +1

          @Suspect420: Everyone has different taste I guess… yours must be great!

        • -3

          @ykwon10: subjective, yes.

          Oh my tastes are extraordinary!

        • @altinvestor:

          People have negotiated an optioned up X3 30i for $81k da with 5y servicing.

        • @Craysee:
          i have seen that pricing under corporate agreements, but not individual purchases - car is still quite new so not a lot of data or sales to base a firm price on it, but 86k is definately acheivable.

        • +1

          @altinvestor:

          Check whirlpool forums … a few people have been able to get around 20% off.

        • +2

          @Craysee: good result…i have only done 1 so far and it was very early on in their release, and they were not keen to move more than 15% but it appears there is much more stock around with BMW AU now, so i believe it. comes down to the exact month and spec of purchase as always.

      • Hoping to piggyback off this thread, but how much do you think I should be paying for:
        2018 Volvo XC90 T6 R Design or Inscription?

        In my circle, they're commonly perceived as on the lower end of the 'premium' segment and I haven't got a clue where to start.

        I've heard of 10% off for BMW, Merc, Audi but no-one ever seems to have any feedback on Volvos.

        • I did a T6 inscription recently at approx $106k .
          i agree Volvo are considered the lower end but thats changing with cars like the XC90/XC60 and F pace etc.

          DM me if you want it bought for you

        • @altinvestor:
          Oh cool thanks! That's more like in my ballpark, then.

          Cheers! I'll absolutely keep you in mind, but I've got a little while to go before I'm ready to buy

        • @altinvestor:
          things have changed in the nearly 16 months since I bought mine(demand is hot, supply is little from what I understand), but I got a my17 t6 inscription that had literally just got off the boat for more than 10% off that price. It obviously depends on what options you want (mine had heated seats, metallic paint, tech pack a few little accessories and 3 years free servicing through corporate deal). 2 friends have bought loaded d5 inscriptions for well under 100k.

          You will always do better if you are willing to take an already made car (on the boat, in a car yard etc) rather than a made to order car, no matter what make you're going for.

          There aren't many decent 7 seat suv's on the market. The only real competitors are the q7, land Rover Discovery and the cx9. Rest you can barely fit a toddler in the back

        • @butwhy: Merc GLS fits tall adults easily too.

        • @butwhy: Good post - could agree more with all of the above.

        • @BestofOZB:
          Yes forgot that one. The GLS is humongous. It's 18cm longer and 500kg heavier than the Volvo. It wouldn't fit in our garage. Underneath it's a bit long in the tooth though. From memory it was 20k more than the Volvo, and didn't come with an reasonably economical petrol engine (I know most people want diesels)

  • +17

    It has been a long understood FACT that $80k Mercs are exceptional investments. Some lesser educated people don't understand how the investment works.

    Can you please break it down so everyone can understand the value proposition & why everyone should add one to their portfolio?

    • +24

      Hi, not going to advise on what people see as good investments or not, a car is a personal decision based on whether you want something A-B or something to make a statement - also applies to almost everything else in life.

      What people want to buy is up to them, but i will say apart from limited production cars, no car is an investment, and even then only then you need to know what your buying when it comes to limited production exotics too… have many clients in this area that have made but also lost money…

      • +7

        Great answer OP.
        In the below suggestion for this persons circumstance - Uni graduate soon (21), will be entering Westpac as an Investment Analyst.
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/273269

        • +11

          Right - got it.
          Again, people can do what they wish but at 21 the inner financial advisor in me would be suggesting to do something different

      • Saying "no car is an investment" is a bold statement. Maybe for "new" luxury cars, but not for exotic JDM cars if low kms and stock. I have two examples:

        Example 1 - In 2012 my Brother bought a 2004 white Mitsubishi evo 8 MR for $28,888 (he was Chinese) from a private seller with 34xxx km on the clock and Japan auction grade 5 papers. Car now has 41xxx km on the clock, garaged and immaculate inside out (even new car smell), MEEK automotive said it could fetch well over $40k now. During that time we only paid for brake pads, belts, oils and oil filter. Check carsales and you'll see only one 27xxxkm for $75k completely stock. Plus my brother's one is more desirable in white and has a few (Japanese factory only) optional extras which you cannot buy now.

        Example 2 - In 2011, friend of mine purchased a 2001 Nissan 200sx for $24k with 4600km on the clock. Yes you read that right. The car was absolutely mint (and stock) with brand new car smell. It was in storage most of its life. It now has 14xxxkm and he was offered $42k at a car show but declined.

        Maybe if you add up rego, insurance and maintenance costs, it might break even. But if you keep it in storage, you will profit.
        I'm sure there are many other JDM car owners who have appreciating assets if they aren't modifying or spending big $$ on their car.

        • +3

          Yeah those numbers are wishful thinking. I had a mint Evo 8 that sold for the same price I paid for it <3 years later. It's a jump and then some to go from 28k to $40k… (Meek did some work on my Evo, but they're a workshop and not an auction site / dealer).
          I also had full verified papers and a complete jap service book with everything up to date.
          There are few good Evo's left, I'll give you that, but the prices being asked by some people are just stupid/greed. There's a few on Carsales that have been there for many months even one I saw there for a year. That guy asking $75k for a low km example -> It's still there because he's dreaming.

          Cars are very very rarely an appreciating asset..

        • +2

          You forgot to add registration, insurance and other maintenance costs. Even garaging the car technically costs money as well.

          After that, does the car still make them money or would putting the same money into a savings account make more?

        • @kingmw:

          I laughed of loud when i read above statement: buying depreciationg assest (a car) as an investment

        • @SaputraJ: ive seen 240zs, 260z, VL Turbos/walkinshaws, 458 speciale's, 991 gt3rs's all make people good money - the thing is these are rare events, and yes rego, insurance cost of holding etc etc all take some of the profit away. on other cars like evo's etc i just dont see it and cant see it in the future.

          also just remember just because something is listed on carsales doesnt mean its selling for that - what matters are sales prices not advertised prices. same as in buying new cars…

        • Every car is an investment. How do you think car dealerships work?

    • +7

      I view cars as consumables, expensive consumables, but consumables nonetheless. That way you won't cry when you get a scratch or ding. The only way to keep a car in pristine condition is to not drive it and have it always garaged.

      • +2

        Na brah. This $5,000 complete care package actually bonds with your clear coat and makes it like glass, preventing any damage.

        Bird poop? Noooope. We don't warrant against bird poop! You need to clean that off the minute it lands on your car.

    • +2

      For those unfamiliar with OzBargain Lore - ChickenSaltFire

      • +11

        No no, don't grave dig. We don't need to keep this joke running any longer…

  • Do you advise buyers to avoid finance if possible?
    Have you ever told buyers they shouldn't buy cars they can't afford?

    • +16

      It all depends on the individuals situation.

      • do they own a company
      • do they have car allowances as part of their employment
      • How much they earn
      • are they investing funds elsewhere that they can generate a greater captial return etc
      • Do they want a new car every 3/4/5 years and dont want to worry about used car disposal

      There is no right answer with finance, but ultimately if you have no investments that are generating a greater return than the cost of finance, it is always better to buy the car cash.

      While we are not actually allowed to give financial advice, i have suggested to some people who may have had very aspirational purchases in mind, that they should "take their time to consider if this is the right thing for them.."

  • +2

    As an estimate percentage, how many of your clients are buying something they can barely afford?

    • +9

      Not that many actually, i would say less than 25%. Most have decent levels of affordability on what they are purchasing.
      some of those 25% are doozies though.

  • +2

    What’s the craziest purchase you have come across in terms of financially structuring a deal for tax benefits? Trusts etc? Or all pretty straight forward?

    • +2

      The most obscure was probably a sale i did on an SLS AMG (500k car) to a small business owner that has his own company.

      It was fully financed and we brought the first year of finance forward so that he could pre-pay the first 12 months of interest in advance to get an instant deduction against upcoming accessible income, as the car was bought in June…

      • How he get around the LCT limit?

        • +7

          you might be confusing it with the depreciation limit, the total interest expense of the car is fully deductible

      • Wow, you can do this?

        You have me interested. So close to June too.

        How much can you get a Porsche GT3 RS and what are brokerage costs? Trying to work out the delta..

        Also need a new family car and thinking of the Volvo XC60 T5.

        Thanks for you doing this service

        • +3

          Wrong site…

        • +1

          DIrect message me and id be happy to look at your requirements. Depends on options etc but there is not much movement at all - retail with an allocation was the last one i did, but at least we got the allocation as many have not.

          Can help on the volvo too

      • Can you explain this further please, because I am keen too? So if repayments for the first 12 months for example were 100k, and interest was 10k, he paid the whole 110k upfront in June to deduct the 10k in tax? Wouldn't it be better to just add the 100k to the deposit?

        • +1

          In his business he couldn't class an initial deposit as an operating expense, hence the lease payment but paid upfront,and he knew he was having a bumper year that wouldn't occur in year 2 so he basically just frontended the lease.

  • What brands did you commonly sell? How much of a discount were you able to achieve your clients? Do you achieve more of a discount using finance (dealer/broker gets a kickbacK) or by paying cash?

    • Hi Azrael
      see my post above as i just answered this.
      Between 12-15% is average but it varies significantly based on newness of model, manufacturer incentives, stock levels etc etc.

      Brands i typically worked with are MB, Audi, BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Jaguar, Range Rover, Alfa, and then some exotics like lotus, aston martins, Ferrari, bentley.
      Ultimately can get my hands on anything (everything is for sale when it comes to cars…)

  • +3

    A little tangential to the subject, but where do you see manual transmissions in higher-end luxury performance cars in the near/med future? I understand the trend has basically being to move towards autos in almost everything, with Porsche being a rare recent example of a brand saying they'll continue to make manual transmission vehicles so long as even one buyer wants it. Do you expect manuals to exit this segment of the market entirely, and if so, on what kind of timeframe?

    • yeah good question. I think in the vast majority of the luxury segment across all brands, the next gen of upcoming cars will be automatic and in future electrified too. I think only certain models will continue with manual transmissions
      -I see brands like Porsche and BMW going the furthest with manual transmissions but even then the G80 M3 in 2020 could come as auto-only, and the new M5 which was just released is auto-only.

      Short answer, there will not be many manual cars left in the market apart from track toys, and even then they are selling more autos than manuals anyway…

      • I'm not too sure about the other brands but I believe Porsche is very unlikely to continue manual transmission.

        If their flagship series (911) is anything to go by, manual versions of their cars will be few and far between from now on. I received news of the 911-R, the only manual race spec 911 for over a decade, much before the car magazines leaked any pictures or made headlines. I was still 50th+ in the waiting list. They are a rare breed.

      • Ah… thanks for the honest if depressing-to-me answer haha. I guess I'll have to either hold onto my car for a long while and save up for a porsche.

      • On the subject of trends, do you see in the luxury space, a trend towards electric? Telsa being the obvious brand, but also the usual car brands are investing so much in electric as well.

        • absolutely - toyota/lexus, bmw, mercedes, audi all looking at introducing electric cars in their next generation of models. The automotive landscape will be very different 10 years from now, i actually feel the last 10 years has been the golden era of motoring when you look at the sheer value, technology and performance available across all brands - its never been this good.

          Will electrification of cars be better again? time will tell i guess..

    • Too subjective for me to answer really as it depends on many factors..
      Would you invest in a house in toorak or mosman?
      Can you afford it?

      like any other investment will likely continue to go up but not immune from drops either…

  • +3

    How much do you have to spend before you get a car with decent build quality?

    I'm used to driving what others might term shitboxes ie 15 year old commodores, but a little while ago I got to drive a Mercades SL500 2015 model. At the time it was worth $150K, but I was surprised at how crap it was. The steering wheel felt plasticy, the seat warmer felt like it came out of a toaster, and the radio was really hard to use. Only things I really liked was the screen inbuilt into the steering wheel, and the road isolation - my speed kept creeping up to 140 in a 110 zone, something that would shake my car like crazy.

    • +2

      hard to answer, i would consider the VF commodore as decent build quality for the money…
      Lexus have good build quality across the board, most german produced cars are also built very well

    • Most of the brands with long, unlimited km warranties have excellent build quality and usability.

      You follow asks about materials and design. That is a very subjective. A brand new VFII's only real draw back is it's radio and that it's discontinued so available colours and trim levels are limited.

    1. Which car would you personally consider the most reliable?

    2. What's the most expensive vehicle you've sold?

    3. What's the most cheapest vehicle you've sold?

    • +12

      Which car would you personally consider the most reliable?
      - Toyota/Lexus
      - most analog cars with little electronics and manual

      What's the most expensive vehicle you've sold?
      - McLaren 675 LT but just got someone a Porsche GT2 RS allocation - that will be in the mid-high $700s once finalised

      What's the most cheapest vehicle you've sold?
      - Toyota Yaris

      • Thanks for the reply! Love the design of the McLaren!

      • +1

        What's the Toyota Yaris story?

        • +5

          no story there - someone wanted to buy one - they were a friend of a friend, i did the deal for them as they are not negotiating type people.

  • Hi There, How much do you think I should pay for the following brand new or demo (with no finance)?
    1. Lexus NX300 Luxury
    2. Audi Q5 TDI Design Ultra
    Thanks

    • Please direct message me with specifics and options and I'll see what I can find. Too many variables to just list prices, anything I've quoted publicly so far are just approximates, in reality it varies from car to car and month to month

  • Firstly thanks for the AMA.

    I’m interested in how a broker like yourself used to get remunerated.

Login or Join to leave a comment