Bank Transfer Taking So Long? Could It Be Possibly Fake?

kakarot123 on 18/07/2018 - 23:22
Last edited 30/07/2018 - 22:23

Hey guys,

I sold a few books to someone on Monday night. We agreed on cash but when I arrived, she said she could only do a bank transfer. I saw her open the NAB app, and I looked away out of respect while she was transferring.

She showed and sent me a screenshot of the receipt. Thinking it would be pretty hard to make a fake receipt, I decided to proceed with the transaction.

It's been 2 days later, and I've opened my Westpac bank app and nothing has come in.

Was wondering if >2 business days for the funds to appear in my account is normal or not?

Thanks.

Edit: I sent a few text messages asking for the transaction ID as I called my bank and they said there was nothing. I just received my payment today. Obviously it wasn't initially sent at the time the buyer stated.

Financial Bank Transfer

Comments

  • sssx on 18/07/2018 - 23:29

    I know it doesn't help now, but register and use pay ID for instant transfers next time.

    I'd hope it arrives by 10am tomorrow, sometimes 3 days seems not out of the ordinary. I wouldn't assume it isn't coming JUST yet…

    • kakarot123 on 18/07/2018 - 23:32

      Thanks a lot. Unfortunately with Westpac there's no payID (until 15th Aug), so I thought since she opened a truncated screenshot of just a receipt (not with a timestamp from her phone) it would be unlikely it was forged/faked.

      • garetz on 19/07/2018 - 09:17
        +2

        Actually you should think the opposite of that, if someone sends you a screenshot of a receipt, i would think its a fake deposit, cause if someone makes a real transfer then when the deposit clears it will speak for itself, and you wont need to send a receipt screenshot as there is no reason to do so.

      • sssx on 19/07/2018 - 18:23

        Ah, I thought you meant she showed you the transfer confirmation (not a screenshot of it) immediately after doing it, and then sent a screenshot to you.

        Surprised if they can make a convincing receipt on their phone, unless there are apps to to fake particular bank screenshots. Not sure why she'd have taken a screenshot and then truncated it either.

    • peterpeterpumpkin on 19/07/2018 - 12:03

      I know you mean well but people have been suggesting PayID to avoid these scams since the first week it rolled out, even before the people's choice, ING, offered it. Many months on, even those banks that promised to roll it out when the NPP matures, like Westpac/St George, Citibank and HSBC are yet to deliver. And who knows when ME Bank will deliver the goods? The fact you can't transfer more than $1000 via PayID with many banks also limits its usefulness in situations you most need it (e.g. buying a car).

      But it's true the public does need more education about PayID, since even those people that have supported banks don't know about it or use it. Based on the monthly questions on "which card is best for travel" and the surprisingly outdated responses, it's clear that many OzBargainers don't keep up to date with the latest trends, let alone society at large. It reminds me of a few years ago when a person in their 20s asked me "What's Uber?" and because of my little world I was surprised that anyone could be detached enough to ignore it.

      • sssx on 19/07/2018 - 18:16

        I'll admit, my experience with it was sitting next to a friend and testing how instantly it appeared to work by transferring some money to his pay ID. He was another bank, I was ING. It was quick. May not be suitable for all applications e.g. a car, and may not be available to all banks (yet), but surely for the situations it can be used (limits/banks) - surely it's a good idea? Is there a better option when it is available?

        I don't think most people have a reason to keep up to date with the latest trends in best cards for travel (or other purposes), it's kind of a niche.

        • peterpeterpumpkin on 20/07/2018 - 10:47

          No, I would definitely use PayID if the other person was aware of it. The Osko 280 character limit is also very useful for the sender but is open to contextual manipulation in a transaction ("$50 as final installment of 20 for iPhone"). If not already available, I think there are NPP apps in development that will allow it to be used in future as a "cash plus receipt" alternative. When every (tax-paying) tradie offers it to you as a first option you know it's hit mainstream.

      • linnaen on 20/07/2018 - 09:52

        a) I'd never heard of PayId before today, and I'm generally more aware of such things than anyone around me. Doesn't appear to be available to CBA yet.
        b) What is the best card for travel these days? I'm with Bankwest for that at the moment.
        b) Uber still doesn't exist where I live, therefore when I travel they don't immediately come to mind as a mode of transport to use. The only time I did think to use it was in Bali, but they were blockaded from using the suburb we stayed in by the official taxi drivers and refused to go there.

        • peterpeterpumpkin on 20/07/2018 - 11:26

          No worries. I assume you live in regional Australia. Before making any major financial commitment it's useful to Google it. Websites like finder.com.au can be useful but the articles may be out-of-date or have minor mistakes.

          (a) CBA lets you send to a PayID even if you haven't set one up yourself. You just need the latest version of the app. I don't have a bank account with any major bank (I close them once I receive the $50 sign-up bonuses).
          (b) If heading on an extended trip to Thailand or Chile, where foreign card fees are ridiculously high, the ING card is a no-brainer since in addition to getting no foreign transaction fees you also get rebated the foreign ATM fees (~$9 in Thailand, ~$12 in Chile). I would also recommend ING for the Philippines (where withdrawal limits are low and the fees ~$6) and the Americas in general (probably every second or third country charges some fee). The catch is depositing $1000 (easier if you have 2 banks with PayID) and making 5 transactions the month prior. If you know a country has no foreign card ATM fees, then the Citibank Debit card doesn't charge any foreign ATM transactions fees or make expectations of you the month before. Citibank doesn't have PayID yet so it's not as useful in an emergency cash transfer between cards.
          (c) Yeah the same happened to me. I was visiting a friend in a private resort area of South Kuta where Grab and Uber are banned and the "hire-taxis" wanted $20 to get out of there. I thought I'd outsmart them by walking to the highway but there were no Ubers/Grabs in that area! So I walked it…However, I did manage to use my free Uber and Grab credit at other times.

  • zonra on 18/07/2018 - 23:36
    +11

    We agreed on cash but when I arrived, she said she could only do a bank transfer.

    That should have been when you walk away.

    She showed and sent me a screenshot of the receipt. Thinking it would be pretty hard to make a fake receipt, I decided to proceed with the transaction.

    Receipts can be easily faked in general, but in this instance sounds like it could be 50/50, transfers usually don’t take that long but it happens from time to time.
    Give it a few more days then get in touch with her again, see if she dodges your call then you’ll know if you got scammed.

    For future reference, unless you see money in your account on your device, you haven’t got paid.
    Treat all screenshots/emailed receipts as fakes.

    • kakarot123 on 18/07/2018 - 23:58
      +2

      Yeah, I guess I opened myself to getting played.
      Lesson learnt for next time regardless of whether the money comes in or not tomorrow or within the next few days.

    • CyberMurning on 19/07/2018 - 10:24
      +1

      "For future reference, unless you see money in your account on your device, you haven’t got paid."

      not really.

      read lots of post on whirlpool, people can put the money on your account, shows there, but then few days later disappear. bank removed it because it was proceed of crime (stolen cheque, etc etc).

      • emibel19 on 19/07/2018 - 19:36

        The statement you quoted means "if you don't see money in your account, you haven't got paid".

        This does not imply that "if you do see money in your account, you have been paid".

        Basic logic says that "if A implies B", then "not B implies not A", NOT "if A implies B", then not A implies not B".

  • foxmulder on 18/07/2018 - 23:57

    Could it also be at the time she need to commit on the payment, she may have missed doing it.

    • kakarot123 on 18/07/2018 - 23:58

      What do you mean by this?
      (the screenshot she sent me was dated for 16th July etc but didn't have a time).

      • foxmulder on 19/07/2018 - 01:05

        Committed payment has transaction or payment ID or number.

        I did once or twice paying someone forgot to commit thus that transaction is not transferred. This kind of receipt usually still have the "transfer" button on screenshot.

        If you still have the buyer contact, say by tomorrow after 9am you still do not get the money, inform her or him politely that there may have been a mistake.

  • SmiTTy on 19/07/2018 - 01:30

    Could take 3 days… Usually not any longer

  • whooah1979 on 19/07/2018 - 07:00
    +2

    We agreed on cash but when I arrived, she said she could only do a bank transfer. I saw her open the NAB app, and I looked away out of respect while she was transferring.

    She showed and sent me a screenshot of the receipt.

    using screenshots as proof of payments is one of the oldest scam tricks. why would you trust a photoshopped image from a stranger that had just made a last minute change to the terms of the transaction?

  • chumlee on 19/07/2018 - 07:43
    +2

    Nect time tell em to come pick up the stuff once funds are in your account but cash is always king

  • Ocker on 19/07/2018 - 08:34
    +4

    If the buyer intended to scam you it would have been simple to enter just one incorrect digit in the payee account number field. You probably would not even notice.
    The NAB system does not check this detail and would have accepted the transfer and issued a receipt.
    After a few days the payment will be rejected by the inter-bank payment system and returned to the account of the sender.
    Easy scam to pull off.

    • kakarot123 on 19/07/2018 - 09:00

      Yeah that's fair enough. I checked the screenshot many times and the digits were correct. The issue now is whether it was faked or not. I haven't received anything yet.

  • Randxyz123 on 19/07/2018 - 09:17
    +10

    Very well known scam. They schedule the payment which doesn’t come up on the receipt. Once you leave they cancel the transaction.

    In the future insist on cash and walk to the atm with them.

    • RockyRaccoon on 19/07/2018 - 09:23

      Unfortunately you are so right.

      Scheduled payments can be cancelled as they havent been sent

      • kakarot123 on 19/07/2018 - 10:21

        So even after I have a receipt they can cancel the transfer?

        • CyberMurning on 19/07/2018 - 10:26

          probably the receipt you see is receipt to make scheduled transfer.
          not sure. next time take photo of the receipt and post here we can help to explain it

        • Randxyz123 on 19/07/2018 - 10:35

          Yes. Receipt doesn’t prove the money hit your account. Just that they sent it somewhere?

          If you have the receipt, call your bank.

  • HighAndDry on 19/07/2018 - 09:52
    +5

    We agreed on cash but when I arrived, she said she could only do a bank transfer.

    That's when you say "Oh, okay, let me know when you can come back with the cash."

    • CyberMurning on 19/07/2018 - 10:27

      OP came to buyers place

  • [Deactivated] on 19/07/2018 - 10:33

    you got played

    • [Deactivated] on 19/07/2018 - 11:45

      Game over.

  • pantsparty on 19/07/2018 - 11:49

    What kind of crappy buyer says yes I will pay cash and then arrives with no cash. I think she wins.

  • peterpeterpumpkin on 19/07/2018 - 12:09

    I'm just surprised that someone would scam another over books. I assume these are textbooks?

    If you don't receive the money by tonight you can try contacting her tomorrow.

    The only thing I ask is that you inform others of the mistake you made in trusting a receipt, whether it's real or not. I keep educating older family members in how easily receipts can be faked and the only excuse I've received is that the "person sending the money is too stupid to pull off a scam".

  • kakarot123 on 19/07/2018 - 12:58

    If I know the person's details, should I report it? The transfer was supposed to be under 100 dollars.

    • Randxyz123 on 19/07/2018 - 16:03
      +1

      In the first instance give them the benefit of the doubt. Send them a message saying something like “Hi <their name> it’s kakarot123 I sold you the books a day ago.
      Just wanted to see if you could send me a screenshot of the payment receipt as it hasn’t hit my account”
      Cheers.

      Willing to bet that they gave you a fake name and a fake mobile.

      The next step is to report it to the police. Not that they’ll do anything.

  • Poolprouk on 19/07/2018 - 13:19

    Pretty impressive how she managed to create a fake receipt in front of your own eyes?

    I can understand someone creating a fake receipt away from the seller, but how she managed to populate that fake receipt with your account details while you were standing next to her doesn't seem right? Did she have her laptop out with picture editing software available?

    Perhaps if she was scamming you she rang the bank and cancelled the transaction?

    • kakarot123 on 19/07/2018 - 13:28

      I gave her my details about 30 min before she opened up the NAB app.

      • HighAndDry on 19/07/2018 - 13:31
        +5

        Could just be the "schedule payment but don't actually go through with it" thing. Or it could just be taking some time…

        Send a message, as if it's just a bank mix up - something like "Hey sorry, I know you showed me the transfer receipt but I haven't received the money yet, could you check with your bank or your statement and see if the transfer went through?"

        Worst case, she's a scammer and ignores you and you're no worse off. And it only costs you a few seconds of your time, just in case it is a mix up.

        • kakarot123 on 19/07/2018 - 15:09

          Thanks. I sent the buyer 3 messages but I haven't heard any reply.

          If I ahve their number and know who they are (i.e. facebook) do you think it's worth reporting? (the value was around 100 bucks).

        • HighAndDry on 19/07/2018 - 15:14

          @kakarot123: To the police? Honestly it'll take you maybe an hour+ of your time and won't likely result in anything (they'll see it as a civil issue, which isn't too inaccurate in this case), but other than the time and effort, won't cost you anything either.

          Other options are to basically publicize the fact that they're a scammer in various places like forums, message boards, etc, but risky for both legal and practical reasons, and for around $100, I don't think worth it.

        • kakarot123 on 19/07/2018 - 15:17

          @HighAndDry:

          Yup that's fair enough. I guess I'll have to count it as a loss and my naivety on my behalf and be a lot more firm next time.

        • patel4541 on 27/07/2018 - 15:42

          @kakarot123: It's better to think of it as a donation, books are going to be used for good anyways.

        • [Deactivated] on 28/07/2018 - 21:21

          @kakarot123: definitely report it to the police, it won’t necessarily take very long at all.

          Also please update us on what happened!!

  • t_c on 19/07/2018 - 16:22

    Bitcoin or Eth, transfers in 5-10min and is non reversable. Way safer than the big banks.

  • RyanMK on 19/07/2018 - 17:27
    +1

    A few months back, someone agreed to buy a pair of RM Williams Boots for the price I listed it for on Gumtree ($300). I was stoked, he didn't bothered negotiating at all and was happy to pay the price listed.

    Ended up being a similar story like yours. We met up at the agreed place, he tried the Boots on and then said to me he left his wallet at home and if he could transfer me the money instead. Like you, I agreed. He entered my details, showed me the receipt on his phone, and we both went on our way.

    15 minutes later I started regretting it and it was all I could agonised about for the next 2 days before the money finally came through! Phew! But definitely not an ordeal I'd put myself through again.

    Reading the comments above, I didn't even know scheduling payments and then cancelling it was a thing!

  • peter05 on 20/07/2018 - 11:24

    NAB has instant payments via SMS as does commonwealth bank. I would insist that they use these as all they need is a mobile number

  • sssx on 27/07/2018 - 21:24

    Did you get your money?

    • Eeples on 28/07/2018 - 21:30

      We will never know.

      • kakarot123 on 30/07/2018 - 22:22
        +4

        I sent a few text messages asking for the transaction ID as I called my bank and they said there was nothing. I just received my payment today. Obviously it wasn't initially sent at the time the buyer stated.

        • HighAndDry on 31/07/2018 - 14:29
          +3

          Oh congrats. And thanks for the update too.

        • sssx on 31/07/2018 - 20:35
          +1

          that's really slow! :P at least they paid up in the end, good to hear

  • bazza1980 on 29/07/2018 - 10:49
    +1

    Given you know where they live, it's time to bring in the bikies…

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