Requesting a Rental Reduction Because of Broken Oven

Laurenlauren on 20/07/2018 - 07:27

I am currently renting and the oven broke a few months back.

We notified the real estate agent straight away, who sent an electrician out the next day (a Saturday).

The electrician advised us that he could replace a part for the same price as install a new oven, so he would pass this on to the estate agents.

A week goes by, the oven still isn't working and I haven't heard from the estate agent.

It took 20 days for the oven to be repaired and for a family who use the oven a lot, this was a big adjustment for us.

It's important to note that the gas stove top was still working, as was our microwave.

I have send a number of emails to the real estate agent requesting a rent reduction of 20% for the 20 days that the oven was out of action.

I'm yet to receive a reply, but she did mention in a phonecall about a separate issue that it was a ridiculous request as they were waiting on a part, which would be the same wait time if we owned the house. She said that the real estate agent handling the issue did everything they could.

I agree the agent acted promptly, but we were without an essential appliance for 20 days and should have a rent reduction for that time. I have spoken with consumer affairs for advice and they say it's a reasonable request.

We're ending our lease in 2 weeks (not related to the oven) and I'm thinking of not pressing the issue until we're out and the bond is returned. I'm not even sure if the estate agent has passed the request onto the landlord.

Has anyone else had a similar situation and what was the outcome?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Amaris on 20/07/2018 - 07:52
    +36

    If the agent doesn't agree to your request for rent reduction you'll have to go to the tribunal to get an order.

    Personally, I think it is ridiculous to ask for a 20% reduction for a broken oven when the stove tops were working and they were actually in the process of repairing it. Would you have replaced the oven if it was your own house (likely with a cheaper model given the new oven offered to you only cost as much as the repair cost)?

    • JimmyF on 20/07/2018 - 08:53
      +15

      Agree 20% is way too much

    • HighAndDry on 20/07/2018 - 10:47
      +4

      I mean, ultimately the oven was fixed after 20 days. That's not a lot of time at all, and I'd say pretty reasonable. It's an oven - not running water or an essential service.

      • SPCTRE on 20/07/2018 - 11:14
        +5

        Not considered an urgent repair because cook top stove was still working.
        When both are out of action, then it’s an urgent repair.
        They have 14 days to to fix non-urgent repair issues.. You are essentially only able to ask compensation for 6 days, not 20days.
        Adjust your claim with this in mind.

  • chumlee on 20/07/2018 - 08:01
    +19

    20% is very high for an oven out of order.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 20/07/2018 - 08:13
    +6

    I don't know. I understand what you're saying but it sounds like the landlord did what they could. I mean, they didn't string you along or ignore the request.

    • HighAndDry on 20/07/2018 - 10:50
      +11

      This is why there are so few good landlords - they run into people like OP and go "(profanity) it, what's the point in being nice at all?"

  • CLoSeR on 20/07/2018 - 08:14
    +7

    I guess it's not uncommon to think you should receive some rebate for having the oven out of action for 20 days.

    It seems like the owner attempted to fix it asap, your 20% claim is not proportional.

  • Randxyz123 on 20/07/2018 - 08:27
    +3

    20 days doesn’t sound that bad. Do a takeaway on Friday and most other things can be done on the stove. What were you trying to cook in your oven?

    Most tradies have a 1 week turn around time, add in 2 days for the owner to approve the repairs, a couple for parts to come in and the weekends,

    Ask for a 5% reduction. Anything more you’ll be laughed at

  • sparkles on 20/07/2018 - 08:32
    +14

    The use of the oven probably equates to $5 of your rent for the week. Claiming 20% is just a money grab and the real estate knows it. Would you claim the same if you knew you weren't moving out? Your overblown claim probably means they will be extra extra picky on your final bond inspection. Expect that.

  • SnoozeAndLose on 20/07/2018 - 08:38
    +3

    If you go to Tribunal you would have nothing to claim against with. Agent did their best to fix the issue. May be you just buy an electric oven around $200 and just claim half from landlord and you can keep it when you left. I think this sound fair but before you do this ask agent for permission.

    Be warn if you try to be ridiculous, agent can put you on blacklist and you will ve hard to rent elsewhere

    • [Deactivated] on 21/07/2018 - 10:24

      But it’s already fixed. No point buying an electric oven now.

  • ykwon10 on 20/07/2018 - 08:44
    +6

    I personally think that the agent has been very reasonable in their dealings with you. They sent someone out the next day (not to mention on Saturday instead of following Monday) to try to fix the issue for you. As per comments above, 20 days doesn't sound that bad. 20% off rent is a ridiculous request which equates to essentially 6 days free rent.

    • Laurenlauren on 20/07/2018 - 13:36
      -2

      I agree the agent has been reasonable, for the most part. I'm a bit miffed that we were told it would only be a couple of days when it was much longer, and that I haven't received a response about the rent reduction, but was very impressed they sent an electrician out on the next day, which was a Saturday.

      I'm not seeking a reduction because they were unreasonable, but for the time we were inconvenienced by not being able to use the oven.

      • [Deactivated] on 21/07/2018 - 10:27
        +6

        Basically you’re trying to get a level of compensation that matches your level of anger over the situation. When what is reasonable is to request a level of compensation that is representative of the value of the oven to the overall rental.

        Tl;dr - the oven is not 20% of the value of your rental.

  • MynyMouqe on 20/07/2018 - 08:46
    +4

    Ridiculous claim - you're acting like it was the entire kitchen that was unusable, or that one of the rooms was uninhabitable.

    They've responded immediately, to the point of dispatching an electrician on a weekend - and whilst it's painful waiting for parts, it's not an unreasonable time. You may have had more pull if you were complaining during that 20 days, and asking that they just put a new one in (rather than wait an extended time for parts) - however that would just be to fix the issue quicker, not get you a rent reduction.

    • Laurenlauren on 20/07/2018 - 13:33
      -1

      We were told that a new one was getting put in, but that was from the electrician before the landlord was consulted. We also contacted them a number of times during the wait to be assured it would only be "a couple of days".

  • ThithLord on 20/07/2018 - 08:49
    +10

    20% is an absolutely ridiculous amount to request deducted.

  • Ryanek on 20/07/2018 - 08:58
    +4

    I think you got your answer OP.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/07/2018 - 08:59
    +4

    A landlord and property manager that acted swiftly.

    A tenant that feels entitled enough to ask for 20% off.

    If I'm the landlord, the rent is going up by a fair bit to deter deadbeats.

  • rompastompa on 20/07/2018 - 10:24
    +3

    How would you feel if your tenants wanted 20% off?

  • HighAndDry on 20/07/2018 - 10:46
    +1

    it took 20 days for the oven to be repaired

    So it's repaired now? 20 days is reasonable. Go make a fuss, but don't come back here crying when your landlord deducts everything they can from your bond.

    I have spoken with consumer affairs for advice and they say it's a reasonable request.

    Lol. Good, go for it. Report back how it goes.

  • spackbace on 20/07/2018 - 11:16
    +2

    Have fun with that agent as a reference for the next place, and with how lenient they are on the bond inspection!

  • doweyy on 20/07/2018 - 11:20
    +2

    It's important to note that the gas stove top was still working, as was our microwave.

    That's enough information for me to believe this is a ridiculous claim (for 20%). Sure, if all your appliances were broken then requesting that is okay. But requesting 20% off your lease for just a broken oven, come on. It's not like the broken oven stopped you from cooking completely!

    Imagine if you were the landlord, having to fork out to fix the oven, and then pay back 20% of the lease! You wouldn't like it one bit hey?

    • Laurenlauren on 20/07/2018 - 13:40
      -1

      You're right, the broken oven didn't stop us from cooking completely. We cook about 85% of the time using the oven, so while it was a big adjustment, we were still able to prepare meals.

      We are landlords and have issued rent reductions a number of times when our tenants were unable to use appliances. Considering our experience as landlords and after speaking with consumer affairs, I thought a rent reduction request was reasonable.

  • GourmetFoodie on 20/07/2018 - 11:30

    Why did you wait 20 days for the oven to get fixed?

    Not sure what state you are in but in Victoria there are legal processes to manage repairs. You have to submit forms via registered post to create a paper trail of responsibility and to ensure outcomes. Repairs classified as "Urgent" need a fix within 48 hours I believe. "Non urgent" is either 7 or 14 days…can't remember. If a fix doesn't happen within the specified time you can then take them to VCAT for breaching their obligations.

    But point is you need to follow the legal processs for your state at the time the issue occurs. Unless you did this, you don't really have a leg to stand on.

    • CLoSeR on 20/07/2018 - 11:38

      Repairer was waiting for parts, seems legit.

    • Laurenlauren on 20/07/2018 - 13:30

      We're in Victoria too. We didn't get a response from the real estate for the first week and just assumed that the oven was going to be replaced as that was the recommendation of the electrician.

      I contacted them after a week and was told that it would be a couple of days. In Victoria, tenants are able to carry out urgent repairs up to $1800 but as it was being sorted and was only going to be a "couple of days", I didn't do it.

      Being landlords ourselves, I didn't want to make a decision about their appliances while it was being sorted. However, the time without an oven did cause inconvenience.

      • HighAndDry on 20/07/2018 - 13:31

        I don't think repairing an oven is classified as an "urgent repair".

        • Laurenlauren on 20/07/2018 - 13:41

          Cooking is classified as urgent repairs, however it's not clear whether both the oven and stove need to be broken for it to be urgent, or just one.

        • SPCTRE on 20/07/2018 - 13:49

          @Laurenlauren: both need to be broken to be class as urgent.
          Only one broken = non urgent.
          I know because I went through the same thing with a broken cook top stove for over a month.
          Consumer affairs confirm this definition with me.

        • Laurenlauren on 20/07/2018 - 13:51

          @SPCTRE: thanks for that, the consumer affairs rep I spoke didn't know.

          Did you request a rent reduction for the time you were without an oven?

        • HighAndDry on 20/07/2018 - 13:53

          @Laurenlauren: Cooking is, but it needs to be something that prevents you from cooking at all (and so is affecting your use of the kitchen). For example if this ever went in front of VCAT (not recommended), the first thing they're going to ask is: "So what stopped you from cooking on the stove?"

        • SPCTRE on 20/07/2018 - 15:25
          +2

          @Laurenlauren: I did not ask for any compensation even though I knew I was entitled to it.
          Landlord and agent did their best to get it fixed but it was more on the tradie and item stock that caused the delays.
          Did not want to punished landlord for something that was beyond thier control.

  • mick01 on 20/07/2018 - 11:49

    Technically I agree you have a right to a reduction in the rent. A portion of your rent includes the use of the oven so if the oven isn't working then yes, you could be compensated. The problem is calculating what is a fair amount of the rent reduction. Is it an amount of money that is really worth worrying about in the scheme of things? 20% seems excessive. If that property was put on the market without a working oven would it really rent for 20% less than what you are paying? I'd be surprised if that was the case. Calculate the amount you are entitled to, minus the cost of your time in fighting for it — it's probably not worth it.

    But if you have plenty of time, maybe it's worth a shot. I'd be interested to know how much you end up with.

  • bobbified on 20/07/2018 - 12:24

    20% is wishful thinking! The oven itself isn't worth one 1/5 of the rental price.

    $10/$15 week is more reasonable but for 20 days, but for such a small amount (relative to the scheme of things), it's not really worth arguing over. You also run the risk of pissing them off enough to put your name on the rental blacklist!

    • HighAndDry on 20/07/2018 - 12:27

      Yeah. 20% is OP acting as if a whole room in the property was unusable.

  • good grape on 20/07/2018 - 12:27

    I feel 20% is a bit too much to ask for since they fixed it in reasonable time.

    Anyways interested to know the outcome

  • Laurenlauren on 20/07/2018 - 13:20
    +1

    Thanks all for your input. It's good to hear other perspectives and the general concensus seems to be that 20% is far too much.

    I do about 85% of cooking in the oven, so it was a significant change not to have it working. Maybe that's not the case for others.

    When the electrician attended the day after it was reported, he recommended a new oven be installed. If it were our house, we would have done that. But the landlord decided to have the part replaced and wait for the part.

    We are landlords ourselves and have provided rent reductions to tenants before while they were unable to use appliances. I honestly thought it was common practice but considering the response in this thread, that may not be the case.

    • HighAndDry on 20/07/2018 - 13:23
      +2

      We are landlords ourselves and have provided rent reductions to tenants before while they were unable to use appliances. I honestly thought it was common practice but considering the response in this thread, that may not be the case.

      It's not rare but it's also not common. You're a far better landlord than many others. But it's also about proportionality - the rent reduction needs to be based on the loss of utility of the property. I think most people's views aren't that you're not entitled to any reduction, but that an oven is far less than 20% of the use of the property. Add to that the fact the agent sent out an electrician immediately (on a Saturday no less), and it was fixed as fast as was practicable, and that's why you're getting less sympathy here than you might otherwise have gotten.

      • Laurenlauren on 20/07/2018 - 13:44
        +2

        I'm not after sympathy and it's great to get the opinions of others. From these responses, it's very clear that 20% is considered too much. I posted the question to see what others had done because even though I have issued rent reductions as a landlord, I've never requested one as a tenant.

        It's good to hear what others think and I appreciate the input. Given the circumstances, would you think a rent reduction is reasonable and if so, how much?

        • HighAndDry on 20/07/2018 - 13:51

          Sorry, sympathy/support.

          Putting aside your special use case (which is crazy - 85%? Not a criticism, just… that's really high) - I think I'd agree with bobbified above of maybe $15-$20 a week or so. $50/wk at a stretch, so maybe $150 all up? That's really low, but I can't think of a way to justify any more, using any of the following:

          1. Oven value as proportion of property value (it'd be <1%),
          2. Affecting your use of the property as a whole (e.g. no hot water means you can't shower) - not applicable as there's still the stove and microwave,
          3. The fact you use it for 85% of your cooking - but that's up to you and unless it's a commercial premises you use for a bakery, not really an issue for the landlord.

          Honestly, I'd prefer the goodwill when it comes to returning my bond (and references if you need it?) than the money.

        • Geryatric on 22/07/2018 - 06:45

          $10-$20/ week but ONLY if not fixed within a reasonable period. 4 weeks IS a reasonable period to replace a major appliance so I wouldn’t be asking for/or giving anything.

  • try2bhelpful on 20/07/2018 - 13:55
    +1

    When Longford blew up we were without Gas for weeks. Our hot water, cook tops, heating are all gas. Our answer to this was to adapt to what we were left with. We used the microwave and electric oven for cooking, we washed at work or blanket bathed using water boiled with the jug, we used our electric heaters instead of gas heaters. Maybe, OP, you should have used the opportunity to expand your cooking reportoire and do more stir fries, steamed veggies, poached chicken, etc. The fact it took a lot of adjustment speaks of a lack of adaptability rather than the loss of amenity; there are plenty of websites that will show you recipes and alternate cooking methods.

    Our microwave doubles as a convection cooker. If our normal oven went on the blink, for a while, we would barely notice it. Frankly, given you are leaving, I think the estate agent is waiting you out. If this came before a tribunal, and I was the landlord, I would be arguing that the effect of the oven was much lower than 20% for 20 days of outage given the cook tops and electricity were still working.

    • mysterytal on 20/07/2018 - 14:03
      +1

      Longford….oh the memories.

      Imagine living today with no hot water. Chaos would ensue. We survived.

      And..to top it all off the pathetic compensation that was offered.

      This year 31st January 2018. A phase on the electricity transformer blew a fuse due to it being a sweltering hot day and everyone using air conditioners. Compensation for just a few hours of no electricity $80. Much more than I was ever expecting.

      • try2bhelpful on 20/07/2018 - 14:12
        +3

        Guys at Longford lost their lives; we just had to live with the inconvenience until it was safe to provide gas again. It is things like that that put your life in perspective.

      • HighAndDry on 20/07/2018 - 15:29

        I guess I'm lucky (?) to remember days when you'd boil water and use that to wash/etc.

  • mogy1808 on 21/07/2018 - 08:01
    +1

    The agent acted quickly and oven was repaired as soon as possible. You still had cooking facilities. Your request seems unreasonable and certainly not worth a 20% rent reduction.

  • TheBilly on 21/07/2018 - 10:59

    Now start a thread on what the landlord should charge you for wear and tear

  • HeWhoKnows on 21/07/2018 - 22:00

    Forget it. The oven doesnt stop you living there and its not essential.
    As you rightfully pointed out there are many other ways of cooking food.
    You can ask but understand the owner must pay for the repair or replacement.
    Also you may get a temporary rent reduction then cop a permanent increase later - they will get thier money back and rightfully so!
    So dont rock the boat and be happy with your working oven

  • Mrgreenz on 22/07/2018 - 00:54
    +1

    +1 on 20% being too much.

    Would you give a 20% reduction to one of your tennants for loss of function of a oven?

  • belongsinforums on 22/07/2018 - 02:05

    OzBargain is great

  • Tech5 on 22/07/2018 - 04:28

    An oven is not an essential appliance unless you are were on the German side in WW2.

  • Geryatric on 22/07/2018 - 06:44

    It was only out for 20 days? They replaced it very quickly. If it was out of order for months maybe you could ask for a reduction - but it’s only worth $10-$20/week

  • solidussnake on 22/07/2018 - 08:14

    We had our oven blow up when I was cooking a roast, 8 days later the owner arrived took the oven without telling us and replaced with a new one in the afternoon. Was pretty annoying having no oven but happy to have a functioning oven as the previous one all the temps and functions were rubbed out and they hand drew the temps on back to front..

    • HighAndDry on 01/08/2018 - 15:26

      The landlord might've been a little more eager to get that resolved if it actually blew up on you… lots of potential liability there.

  • kaleidoscope on 22/07/2018 - 08:45

    The fact that they took actions to solve your problem is good enough imo…

    where as our agent and landlord is total pos.
    1) Had not fixed our intercom for 15 months
    2) Did not reimburse is for nbn new development fee telling its tenant’s responsibility.

    • o53djz7qTPY4der on 22/07/2018 - 10:14
      +3

      2) I'd push that. He gets to benefit from that $300 ongoing. You, however, are temporary. Issue an invoice to the agent. If they don't pay go to VCAT

      • kaleidoscope on 22/07/2018 - 14:48

        Thanks I wasn’t aware of that.

    • DemocracyManifest on 06/08/2018 - 10:36

      Yeah every place ive ever been in has pushed that shit even with ADSL but ive been lucky enough with breaking contracts and the like with no issues to avoid paying those fees

      • o53djz7qTPY4der on 07/08/2018 - 06:02

        Connection fees and new development fees are different.

        The new development fee is a one-off payment to the NBN for establishing the NBN connection to the premises the first time. Any subsequent connections to the same premises do not have to pay it.

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