Cert 3 Electrician or Bachelor of Electrical/Civil Engineering

Rippii on 20/08/2018 - 11:34
Last edited 20/08/2018 - 11:40

As title states, I'm not sure whether to go pursue Cert 3 Electrician or to do Bachelor of Electrical or Civil Engineering at USYD/UNSW.

With Cert 3 Electrical, I would want to start my own small business - with prospects of $100k+ /year eventually.. (less stable)
However with Bachelor Civil/Electrical Engineering - I would most likely work for a big company with a fairly constant wage of ~80k (more stable)

I'm not sure which one to choose as Cert3 just seems to easy to get into (no pre-requisite), and with B.Eng I have the potential to enrol in the course at a 'prestigous' university.

I've also heard that there are more jobs as an on hand electrician, rather than a civil or electrical engineer in Australia.

Any insight into what I should do would be greatly appreciated :)

Education & Work

Comments

  • HighAndDry on 20/08/2018 - 11:39
    +3

    They're fundamentally different career paths, so it really comes down to what your preferences are.

    Personally for me, the stability and (expected) better job security of working for a big firm would sway me towards the B. Eng degree, but then no one's ever accused me of being a risk taker. On the other hand, if you like, or think you'll like the freedom and flexibility of having your own business, and think you can hack the headaches and lack of stability that also comes with that, then maybe the Cert III is for you instead.

    • BrantRaven on 20/08/2018 - 13:36
      -1

      Personally for me, the stability and (expected) better job security of working for a big firm

      Seriously? Stability and job security?

      I am a top tier engineer. I have worked in all sectors and several countries. Nothing I learned in any of my university courses have any relationship to the real world. My degrees are bits of paper that simply paved a way and nothing else. My job has never been secure! I survive only through good connections and being good at what I do. I have a well established reputation. I have seen people around me…who are qualified and good at what they do leave the job and sometimes get re-orged out of a job.

      Given half an opportunity…I would much rather go with the Cert III.

      Dr. Brant Raven

      • HighAndDry on 20/08/2018 - 13:45
        +2

        Yes, having a job in a large company - even in uncertain economic conditions, has better stability and job security than having your own business. It's not necessarily good, but any change in the economy hits smaller businesses faster and harder than it does bigger ones. You might still lose your job from a big company, but by that point small businesses would have been hemorrhaging jobs for a while already.

        My degrees are bits of paper that simply paved a way and nothing else.

        Yes, well maybe not absolutely nothing else, but paving the way is pretty much their primary/sole function.

      • Hazzard on 20/08/2018 - 17:38

        Nothing I learned in any of my university courses have any relationship to the real world. My degrees are bits of paper that simply paved a way and nothing else.

        Nothing against you, but maybe it's the types of jobs you take up/apply for? I am a graduate civil engineer and the things I do were certainly taught during my bachelors degree in civil engineering. Ofcourse there are some things I did in my course that I would never apply and some things I am doing that weren't taught in uni.

        Having said that, it did take me like a year and a half to find a suitable graduate position.

      • Hunter80 on 23/08/2018 - 18:35

        Not sure where you studied.. Second working as an Engineer isn't that tough..
        No Dr Just an Average Joe (or shall I say Engineer)

  • trustnoone on 20/08/2018 - 12:03
    +1

    What do you want to do afterwards, they're pretty different fields, money aside for a moment. Do you want to do electrician work, do you like working with your hands, are you happy talking to people, making quotes, doing electrical work on their house, discussing for money etc. Or do you prefer business life, more written design or maintenance based work, more boss/employee structure, less client discussion, more possibly design/development/consulting or maintenance sort of things, less labour but possibly still stressful?

    • Rippii on 20/08/2018 - 12:05

      tbh I'd be happy with both aspects :/ which makes this decision a bit harder for me

    • SBOB on 20/08/2018 - 12:25
      +2

      are you happy talking to people, making quotes, doing electrical work on their house, discussing for money etc

      plenty of electrical jobs that arent 'domestic', though they are usually less the 'small business' type

      • trustnoone on 20/08/2018 - 12:45
        +1

        haha yeah, apologies about that, I think I added that part in due to OP saying:

        I would want to start my own small business

        But yeah definitely get what you mean.

  • Caped Baldy on 20/08/2018 - 12:25
    +2

    My 2c is that it is tough to get an eng grad job and the hours can be punishing at bigger firms.

  • Ugly on 20/08/2018 - 12:39

    As someone who works in the industry, just know that most Civil Engineers don't do any actual engineering anymore. It's all about compliance paperwork (safety checklists, greenhouse emission reports, waste tracking & recycling, etc etc etc)

    If you are a "hands-on" type, then go with the Cert 3 Electrical.

    • Rippii on 20/08/2018 - 14:48

      how about Civil Engineering vacancies and salaries in Australia?
      Are there many job opportunities in Australia with good salary?

      • Ugly on 20/08/2018 - 15:33

        Depends where you are and your qualification, but in Sydney at least there appears to be a shortage. Particularly if you have railway or tunnelling experience.

        There is a boom in major infrastructure Sydney at the moment (Sydney Light Rail Project, West Connex, North Connex, a new international airport, Sydney Metro).

        Have a look at Infrastructure Pipeline if you want an idea of where & when the work is.

        • Archi on 20/08/2018 - 16:36

          There is a boom in major infrastructure Sydney at the moment (Sydney Light Rail Project, West Connex, North Connex, a new international airport, Sydney Metro).

          all the above mentioned projects have well and truelly designed and documented.

          having said that there is bucket loads more coming. but any creative design work is done by seniors that have years of experience and new designers work in the computer aided modelling arena of roads and tunnel design.

          my electrician is so busy he turns down jobs and now only picks the easy ones to do and doesn't even bother quoting and competing with others. just charged my sister $30 cash per light point to put in her new house there was 50 down lights throughout and he did that in 2 days. that's what I get paid in a week as an engineer

        • Rippii on 20/08/2018 - 16:52

          Shortage in Engineers or Electricians?

        • HighAndDry on 20/08/2018 - 16:58

          @Archi: Yeah but you need to look at least a few years into the future for this. (Same with getting degrees - if not even worse). See it happen all the time - shortage of X, glut of X grads/workmen, pay/jobs for X go through the floor.

          House construction is going to slow down if it hasn't already.

        • Ken1977 on 21/08/2018 - 09:02

          @Archi: Was that $30 including supply of the light fitting or just install.

        • Archi on 21/08/2018 - 09:44

          @Ken1977:

          no that was labour only but light I bought off a deal on ozbargain..
          https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/338825

  • vinni9284 on 20/08/2018 - 13:01
    +5
    1. Do Cert III Electrical and complete apprenticeship.
    2. Get workplace experience few years underneath your belt + good money.
    3. If trade is not for you, you can go always to Uni as an adult intake -> Post Grad M Eng. The catch is that you have to pay a full fee (you can go through FEE HELP if eligible) and it will take you up to 2 years FT/4 years PT. This depends on your Maths and they make you jump a few hoops to get in. But it's doable. Good thing about Post Grad is that it is in the evening hence can work during the day.
    4. The prospects of landing an Professional Eng job will be easier as you have had many years hands on experience in the field + a Post Grad Degree and don't have to jump over the rubbish, bulls*it graduate hurdles/test/interviews/psycho tests… etc
    5. Best of both worlds and a backup. Trade & Professional experience

    Cheers

    • follow on 20/08/2018 - 13:51
      +1

      Don't you need a degree to do post grad? Especially for something like engineering?

      • vinni9284 on 20/08/2018 - 15:11
        +1

        Nope.

        You have to show that you can undertake the Post Grad Degree if you don't have one.
        Many aspects can be provide evidence of work experience and even previous courses you have completed (E.g related Cert III - Adv.Dip)

        This depending on Universities that are articulation friendly.
        In Melbourne, the best for these are RMIT & Swinburne Uni

        Normally, depending on the course, you don't have to get straight into Masters as you have a course pathway (depending on course)

        In hierarchical order:

        1. Graduate Certificate.
        2. Graduate Diploma.
        3. Master's Degree.

        For Eng, you have to be proficient in problem solving, maths and computing. They may ask you to take a pre-entry test or undertake a few units and go by results and review.

        Cheers

    • straphlinger on 22/08/2018 - 07:39

      Do the Cert III. But follow it up with some Business qualifications. I've met some very good trades people who cant handle the business side of things. Those that are good at both the Trade and Business do very well.

  • Freitag on 20/08/2018 - 13:24

    How long will each option take to complete?

    • Rippii on 20/08/2018 - 14:47
      -1

      Tafe Digital; Ideally I would complete the course in 6 - 12 months (complete at your own pace)
      Uni: 4 years

      • vinni9284 on 20/08/2018 - 15:15
        +1

        Electrical Apprenticeship = 4 years. You are not going to wire up / cabling by looking only at digital media. 240V lol!
        Uni 4 years FT

  • EFC94 on 20/08/2018 - 15:23
    +1

    Cert 3 electrical isn't easy to get into, you need an apprenticeship first which isn't easy to find.

  • whooah1979 on 20/08/2018 - 17:06

    Have you considered becoming a plumber?

    • epic1gum on 20/08/2018 - 17:49

      Don't want to due to personal preference for obvious reasons :( — other than that it's a pretty good trade too

      • whooah1979 on 20/08/2018 - 17:57

        obvious reasons

        Does this have anything with family and culture? Some cultures regard engineering as a higher status job than say electricians while plumbing being below both?

        • epic1gum on 20/08/2018 - 18:06
          +1

          Oh, it's just I can't really work with shit fluids well 🤮

        • whooah1979 on 20/08/2018 - 18:10

          @epic1gum:

          Lol.

    • Hardlyworkin on 20/08/2018 - 23:05
      +1

      It's not all it's cracked up to be.

  • aussieprepper on 20/08/2018 - 18:07

    Why not get a trade and move up from that point? If you are a sparky you can do tafe/uni at nights to get into an engineering course? They will remove subjects you have already completed.

  • ms_caz on 20/08/2018 - 18:36
    +2

    Visit the NECA website NECA This is the site of the industry body for the National Electricians and Communications Association. On this site you can find links to each state and the regulations relating to apprenticeships and training in this industry. You will note that the industry covers more than just the traditional idea of an electrician - there are quite a variety of roles which begin with the basic Cert 3 qualification.

    There is a link to the NECA pre-selection assessment. This is a test which assesses how suitable you are for selection into the course. It is highly recommended. If you are in Victoria, you would then apply to do your training through NECA Group Training Organisation. Of course, you could also go elsewhere to do it, ie a TAFE.

    Engineers Australia is the industry body for the Engineering profession. It also has a section which you can use to find out more about the role and requirements of engineers in a number of different sectors of the industry. It is highly recommended to read the "students and educators" section so that you know what you are getting yourself into if you choose this professional field.

    I assume that you have also looked at the relevant state university admissions centre - in Victoria this is VTAC so that you know what the pre-requisites actually are for the courses at different institutions.

    And finally, you can look at Job Outlook in order to access the most up to date data about changing employment profiles, job opportunities etc.

    Good luck with it.

  • gres on 21/08/2018 - 09:09

    Both great choices, how do you see your future?

    A trade qualification means you can live pretty much anywhere in Aus you like and get work or start your own business, no traffic issues, reasonable housing costs, etc.

    Engineering, while a great career, will be less flexible, there are regional opportunities but fewer of them and typically hard fought to win,

    Maybe just another way to think about it,……………….

  • HeWhoKnows on 21/08/2018 - 14:24

    Which ever is less likely to be replaced with computers, internet, robots or artificial intelligence.

  • r3volt on 17/09/2018 - 23:16

    You do understand that you dont just do the course work with a cert 3? You need to do the actual apprenticeship with it?

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