Legal Advice: Are Melbourne University Sports Fees and Fines Ilegal or Unethical?

nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 13:11
Last edited 09/09/2018 - 21:03 by 1 other user

Hi all,

I would highly appreciate your opinion on how ethical (or even ilegal) is the business model of the Sports facilities at Melbourne University.

The system at first glance seems simple: Direct debit with fortnight payments OR upfront monthly payment. Because is convenient, most people choose the direct debit option, but here is the catch:

  • If for any reason the automatic debit fails, a $15 fine is added to your fees.
  • There is no way to waive the fees. Sometimes it might be a bank/card issue, sometimes your account might have too little money, but still they enforce the fine in all cases.
  • You can't use the facilities until you pay the fine, but they will still continue charging you! In fact, while the payment method is unresolved, your fortnight payment fees and additional $15 fines keep adding up indefinitely.

There are also a few other things which are strange:

  • You can only pause the memberships on a Wednesday BUT if you let them know a WEEK in ADVANCE. So for example, if you have an emergency or feel sick on Thursday, you can't pause until 14 days later. This make membership pauses pretty useless.
  • They still charge you fortnight fees even in periods when the facilities are fully closed. For example Christmas/ New Year which is close, you will still get a debit (and a fine if it fails…)

I understand sports facilities business model relies on people singing up and, in many cases, never using them. However the current system is predatory to members as it relies in maximizing income by:

1) Offering a prepaid service which you are liable for, but however they withhold access to the service.
2) They don't drop your membership. They keep charging your membership and late fees for months. You can't use the facilities in all this time.

Key questions:

1) Is it legal to charge a processing payment fine for fortnight debit?
2) Shouldn't UNIMELB SPORTS stop the membership immediately once the payment is refused? Why do they keep charging you for facilities you can't use?
3) Should't they allow members to pause memberships as they prefer?
4) Shouldn't they stop charging members for facilities they can't use?

I am happy to prepare a letter to the Ombudsman so he is aware of this situation and hopefully stop the abuse.

Thanks for your comments!

EDIT 7/09 10am:

  • Thank you all for your feedback! Just to clarify:

a) I understand the contract specifies the fines clearly, that is not unders discussion.
b) They key question is if UNIMELB should keep charging members for a service that is not providing. Why would it keep charging a membership fee, when in practice members can't use the facilities?

Examples of services that you get fined, but you can continue to use:

  • Mobile: How would you feel if they would give you an invoice for your monthly phone plan, but you couldn't use it until you pay a fine?
  • Internet: How would you feel if they give you the invoice for your internet monthly plan, but you couldn't use it until you pay a previous fine?

EDIT2 7/09 11am:
- Fortnight contracts do not require a 12 month contract. Jus a minimum of ~4 months, after which you can retire at any time.
- Unimelb charges IN ADVANCE for the use of the facilities. When you miss the payment, they make you liable for the upcoming to weeks but you can't use until you pay the fine. That's absurd

EDIT 8/09
After several days of discussion there has been not one single example of a business which follow UNIMELB Sports Centre questionalbe practices. Any service provider will at least give you a notice, and grace period. I haven't seen one who will charge for a service not provided, and I am looking for examples.

Financial Legal Advice

Comments

  • Davo1111 on 06/09/2018 - 13:22
    +25

    It's a gym, they had a contract with the above terms, you signed it. If you don't agree, then you shouldnt have sign it.

    • HighAndDry on 06/09/2018 - 13:53
      +28

      How could you possibly expect uni students to be able to read?

    • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 11:26
      +5

      For the record, I am well aware of the terms and conditions :)

      I just find it too strange a business model in which they charge you in advance for a service, but they don't let you use it.. While overdue you are not allowed to use it, that's fair, but to continue charging you like you could, that's strange.

    • No ONE on 08/09/2018 - 13:10
      +4

      Have you heard of unconscionable conduct or unfair contract. The business has too much bargaining power and there is no negotiation or alternative. Well, the only way to proof it, is to take the matter to court which is obviously too much for an individual.

      • Davo1111 on 08/09/2018 - 14:05

        i have, but this is not unfair.

        • nomekop on 08/09/2018 - 22:02

          Hi!
          I am sorry to hear you don't feel is unfair. But do you have examples of business which follow this practice?
          I am still looking for one good example

        • idonotknowwhy on 09/09/2018 - 09:25

          @manabeins: Most gyms are like this. My gym sometimes closes for 1-2 weeks but I have to keep paying because there's another gym in the franchise within 15kms.
          Yours is a little extreme, but they're the only gym on campus, so you're basically their bitch.

          • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2020 - 00:44

            @idonotknowwhy:

            you're basically their bitch

            There are gyms off-campus. Being "their bitch" is a choice.

            • spackbace on 05/02/2020 - 13:33

              @[Deactivated]:

              idonotknowwhy on 09/09/2018 - 07:25

              Bit bored JJB?

              • [Deactivated] on 05/02/2020 - 14:52

                @spackbace: Yep. Being semi-retired is starting to get to me :(

      • nomekop on 08/09/2018 - 22:02

        I am ok with not getting the fine back.

        I am just looking for them to stop these practices which at the very least are unfair. They should provid give a notice before restricting access since they are charging in advance for the gym membership. They should stop charging membership and fines for months to students making a profit out of it.

  • Godric on 06/09/2018 - 13:26
    +1

    $15

    • ronnknee on 06/09/2018 - 13:32
      +2

      Forth-night

      • Godric on 06/09/2018 - 13:35
        +12

        fortnite

        • Ugly on 07/09/2018 - 11:33
          +8

          No - Fortnite is what stops you going to the gym

  • spackbace on 06/09/2018 - 13:27
    +4

    What's in the contract you signed?

    How's POL123 working out for ya? 😂

    Ah uni students, still don't quite have that real-world experience.

  • pingualien on 06/09/2018 - 13:28
    +2

    that place is a rip, what sports do you play there?

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 13:46
      +1

      It's a gym, you can access the pool and some fitness classes

      • Kangal on 09/09/2018 - 11:22

        $15/fortnite sounds cheap.
        If they're offering a pool, gym, and classes. Much more competitive than other gym memberships, well on-paper since I've never seen the facilities in person.

        Then again they could just charge you $1 fairly since I've already paid for all that fluff through my taxes.

        • nomekop on 09/09/2018 - 13:48

          hi!
          15$ is just the fine. The price for fortnight is around 30-40$ depending you are a student/staff or not.

  • toniyellow on 06/09/2018 - 13:32
    +10

    If it was in the terms and conditions of the contract you signed, this doesn't sound illegal.

    It sounds like something you should raise through your student union not through Ozbargain https://umsu.unimelb.edu.au/getinvolved/studentscouncil/

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 14:02
      +2

      That's a good advice! THANK YOU!

  • rambutann on 06/09/2018 - 13:39
    +1

    get a credit card.

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 14:02
      +1

      Good idea

      • xuqi on 08/09/2018 - 12:14
        +1

        Make sure you place a small limit on your CC. I've had a limit of $2000 on my CC since getting it some 20+ years ago, not because I can't control my spending but never felt the need for more credit.

        When required I move cash in to the CC account to buy items worth 1000's above the limit.

        As a student starting out a small limit will help shape your spending habits.

    • HighAndDry on 06/09/2018 - 19:25
      +11

      I don't know if this was just expertly done sarcasm. I feel like OP will return a week after signing up for a credit card spewing "OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY CHARGE ALL THESE FEES!"

      • Brouw3r on 07/09/2018 - 21:19
        +5

        They charged fees and interest and they kept account open.

  • pantsparty on 06/09/2018 - 13:45
    +9

    Haha - abuse. They are not abusing you. They are doing exactly what they said they would do when you agreed to their T&CS. I am guessing you didn't read their terms when you joined? If you know a payment is coming out of your bank account why wouldn't you leave enough money in there?. I had a look on the website and found:

    ".4 Default Fee If your bank or credit card account is rejected for any reason whilst processing your fortnightly direct debit payment, a $15 default fee will be charged. Memberships will not be able to be used until both the outstanding fortnightly direct debit payment and default fee is paid at reception."

    Honestly this is a crap post. Read the terms before you join things going forward and you will do just fine.

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 13:58
      -4

      Thanks for the reply,

      I am very well aware those are the conditions, I am just trying to understand if it logical to charge "for any reason" and if such a condition violates consumer rights.
      I am just tired of the amount of fees that I have seen are charged to students for variety of reasons.

      • pantsparty on 06/09/2018 - 15:25

        I think it is logical to charge for any reason. If the payment is rejected it is highly likely to be the fault of the customer - the gym would be incurring costs having to deal with this (even if it is just the cost of staff having to manually intervene). I don't understand why you think this is not fair?

        Have enough money in your account and you will have no issues. Pay with a credit card perhaps? You can always join a different gym if you don't like how this one operates.

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 10:17

          I appreciate your feedback! I will use a credit card for sure.

          I am not complaining about the fine. However I am complaining about the fact they KEEP charging you for the gym membership, but you CAN"T use. It is very strange honestly.

      • Logical on 08/09/2018 - 19:28
        +1

        It's not logical for them to charge such fees. They have a profit to make and they target their only source… Their clients.

  • HighAndDry on 06/09/2018 - 13:47
    -6

    Lol.

    Haven't read your actual post. But

    Are Melbourne University Sports Fees and Fines Ilegal or Unethical?

    Lol no.

    • [Deactivated] on 07/09/2018 - 18:22
      -1

      Actually John Howard banned compulsory union fees/membership. Something has happened since, I’m not sure of the detail.

  • HighAndDry on 06/09/2018 - 13:49
    +23

    Okay, now reading your actual post:

    If for any reason the automatic debit fails, a $15 fine is added to your fees.

    Welcome to the real world, yes, if you don't pay bills on time, you get charged fees.

    Sometimes it might be a bank/card issue, sometimes your account might have too little money

    All of these are your problem, not the problem of whoever you need to pay.

    You can't use the facilities until you pay the fine

    Of course not - you haven't paid.

    I think the bigger crime here might be that Melbourne University is also probably charging you for a degree that you obviously have no chance of getting.

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 14:01

      What about the fact they keep charging you, even though you can't use?

      Again, I understand is logical that the fine should be paid. However my biggest concern is the fact they keep your membership running even though you can;t use the facilities.

      They should block you all together until you pay the fine

      • HighAndDry on 06/09/2018 - 14:03
        -4

        Have you thought that instead of complaining about what others should do, you could consider maybe that you should read the contracts you sign?

        I assume it's in English and you seem to be able to read English fine. So what's your excuse for signing a contract and then complaining about it after the fact?

        • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 14:06
          +5

          You are not getting my point.

          There are no other fitness facilities nearby, and YES I could stop using it. However I am trying to understand if Australia law just allow business to do as they please, or if there is a level of regulations to avoid profiting excessively from mostly uni students

        • HighAndDry on 06/09/2018 - 14:09
          +3

          @manabeins:

          There are no other fitness facilities nearby, and YES I could stop using them.

          What was the point of this entire sentence? Could've saved us both the trouble.

          However I am trying to understand if Australia law just allow business to do as they please, or if there is a level of regulations to avoid profiting excessively from mostly uni students

          I'm still apparently not getting your point. A $15 late payment fee is wholly reasonable. If people like you didn't always pay late, the business could save a lot of money by not having a late payments department or reduce their accounts department staff. You are causing extra costs because you are apparently unable to pay a set amount on a regular timetable.

          The business charges fees based on the contract you signed. If it's a yearly membership, then you have already agreed to pay the full year's fees, only they're allowing you to pay in monthly installments. Why is it their problem if you can't pay on time, or if you can't use the facilities?

          See how the root of the problem here is you, and all your issues could be solved yourself?

        • Baysew on 06/09/2018 - 14:54
          +2

          @manabeins:

          There are no other fitness facilities nearby

          There are heaps!

        • HighAndDry on 06/09/2018 - 15:50
          +4

          @Baysew: Again, how could you possibly expect uni students to be able to read maps?

        • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 19:10
          +1

          A few questions for you:
          - How would you feel if they charge you for your monthly phone plan, but you couldn't use it?
          - How would you feel if they charge you for your internet, but you couldn't use it?
          - How would you feel if they charge you for your parking spot, but you couldn't use it?
          - How would you feel if they charge you for rent, but you couldn't use your home?

          Either they charge a fine and let you use it, or cancel your service (cancelation fee). But fining and not letting you use the facilities is an abuse in my opinion.

        • HighAndDry on 06/09/2018 - 19:19

          @manabeins:

          I don't know what's wrong with your logic circuits. None of those are vaguely analogous. And you're leaving out an important part I think: You're being charged but you haven't paid.

        • idonotknowwhy on 09/09/2018 - 09:29

          @manabeins: > - How would you feel if they charge you for your parking spot, but you couldn't use it?

          Yeah, they used to do that when I went to uni. I paid a huge fee for a permit but often the spots were all full.
          As a uni student, not much you can do other than buy a bottle of lube :(

        • Kangal on 09/09/2018 - 11:25

          @idonotknowwhy:
          Wake up earlier and park at the station?

        • R-Man on 09/09/2018 - 16:41

          @Kangal:
          But you've paid a few hundred for a yearly parking permit

          How are spots full? universities selling more permits than dedicated permit spots available?

        • Kangal on 09/09/2018 - 17:06

          @R-Man:
          I'm not saying buy the permit, then park elsewhere. I'm saying if you cannot use the permit then do not buy it, find alternate solution.

          The uni has to sell more permits than spots since everyone goes to uni at different rates, different days, and different hours of the day. But how much over-limit is the answer I do not know.

          It's like buying tickets to an all-you-can-eat-buffet, only to show up later and find other ticket holders have finished the meal. Can't blame the venue entirely.

          I used to find parking was okay before 7.30am, then busy until 9.30am, and full by 10am. So I either went early, or I parked elsewhere. I didn't think someone that has gained entry to Higher Education would need to learn these things. Public transport, though not faultless, seems to be an excellent choice.

        • sghetti on 10/09/2018 - 09:00

          @manabeins: I don't know about you, but don't pay your mobile plan or internet and being on bad terms with the provider and your service will be cut…

    • [Deactivated] on 06/09/2018 - 17:03
      +2

      I think the bigger crime here might be that Melbourne University is also probably charging you for a degree that you obviously have no chance of getting.

      Maybe it's because I was already seated on the porcelain throne but I literally shat myself laughing.

    • AddNinja on 07/09/2018 - 09:04
      +9

      I don’t know HighAndDry. I know younger people sometimes think that they are special and laws and agreements don’t apply to them, but I think your dismissive tone is over the top and that the OP is right question it. For a start, sometimes businesses charge fines that are illegal and can be overturned in court (think of those dodgy car park companies). Secondly, just because you signed a contract doesn’t make the provisions in that contract unethical. Thirdly, signing a contract doesn’t mean you have to like it, only that the contract is probably enforceable. Finally, even for contracts that are signed, legal and perhaps ethical, if enough people complain about it, they can get the contract changed.

      I get the impression that you side with institutions over individuals in contracts. Given though how common it is for institutions to act unethically or downright illegally, I think it is entirely reasonable for individuals to question and complain about the terms in the contracts they signed.

      • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 09:53
        +1

        Thank you for your kind reply!

        As you mentioned, I am just trying to question the contract and hoping that a better option can be offered in the future.

        • Maxxjet on 07/09/2018 - 15:56

          mate, you are asking the right qustions - the T&C is not the King in any circumstance - especially if the facility doesn't have any meaningful competition - they are abusing their monopoly apparently - T&C can be unfair - even if you agreed to it - the fairness must be there regardless if you are supposed to read , and put your name down.

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 19:43
          +1

          @AllWins: Thank you for you kind reply and encouragement!

  • singlemalt72 on 06/09/2018 - 13:50
    +1

    Because is convenient, most people choose the direct debit option

    And there lieth the problem - if you are regularly using the facilities how hard is it to pay per month in person.

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 14:01
      -1

      I didn't mention in the post, but it's slightly more expensive AND you can't pause the membership if you choose to do that way (not that it is much help)

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 06/09/2018 - 14:45
    +1

    never sign up for direct debt it that is how they get you i reckon at least 1 in 10 ppl in Australia are paying weekly/monthly/annually for something they dont use and probably have no idea they are still paying for it.

    You signed a contract its 'legality' can be questioned but if you signed it that is on you.

    The fees they charge are bull**** i agree with you but that is the real world…and the real world is not fair

    If you want me honest advice if they have deducted the fees just dont pay them but otherwise never give anyone access to take money from you without direct permission

    • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 09:50

      Thank you!!

      Will do so!

      :)

  • try2bhelpful on 06/09/2018 - 15:42
    +1

    So what is the weekly fee you are paying for this; I bet it is a lot less than clubs outside the University. Within reason they can do what they like because you signed the T&Cs.

    Key questions:

    1) Is it legal to charge a processing payment fine for fortnight debit? -yes it is. There are many places now that charge fees for credit cards and, if you don't have the funds available to cover your debt, they can charge a processing fee; provided they have indicated they will do this.

    2) Shouldn't UNIMELB SPORTS stop the membership immediately once the payment is refused? Why do they keep charging you for facilities you can't use?
    You are the one who didn't fulfil the payment schedule, (allowing people to use the facilites when they haven't met the contract obligations would not give people much incentive to actually meet them) you haven't given them notice you are quitting the club so they will continue to charge you the monthly fee until you do. If you have an issue with how this is managed then bring it up with them or find a new club. $15 is not going to break you and, if this was a banking issue, then take it up with your bank to get them to resolve it.

    3) Should't they allow members to pause memberships as they prefer? No, because this can lead to the billing software needing to be individualised to enable people to start/stop as they see fit. Many of the gyms align membership pause with the billing periods and require sufficient notification for them to do this.

    4) Shouldn't they stop charging members for facilities they can't use?
    Shouldn't members pay their bills and their fines so the gym can avoid the hassles of chasing people about their debts. If you don't want to pay the fines then quit the gym. $15 is not going to break you.

    I never understand why people get so upset about such petty amounts.

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 19:09
      -2

      A few questions for you:
      - How would you feel if they charge you for your monthly phone plan, but you couldn't use it?
      - How would you feel if they charge you for your internet, but you couldn't use it?
      - How would you feel if they charge you for your parking spot, but you couldn't use it?

      • how would you feel if they charge you for rent, but you couldn't use your home?

      Either they charge a fine and let you use it, or cancel your service (cancelation fee). But fining and not letting you use is an abuse

  • Diji1 on 06/09/2018 - 16:23
    +1

    Never enter a direct debit arrangement period.

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 18:34

      thank you for the advice!

  • josetann on 06/09/2018 - 17:43
    +2

    Let me just throw this out there. If I don't pay my electric bill, I expect to get charged a late fee. I also expect them to eventually disconnect service. But, should they continue billing me for using electricity that I can't use?

    I mean, I kinda understand both sides, but it doesn't seem right to be charged for a service you can't use. To make it fair, the business should instead have an X day grace period, if you're not paid up by that point, service is cancelled (with requisite cancellation fee, of course). If you want to reinstate the service, then you can do so after paying in full + reinstatement fee.

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 18:34

      Exactly!!
      That's what I have trying to explain :)

      Thank you for your reply!

    • HighAndDry on 06/09/2018 - 19:21

      With electricity - if you're not using it, you won't get charged usage fees. But you'll still definitely be charged the base connection/service fee. Whether or not you use any electricity. And that's even if you're current on your accounts.

      the business should instead have an X day grace period

      There is a grace period. It's called "the entire month since the last monthly payment date".

  • try2bhelpful on 06/09/2018 - 18:25

    If you have an issue with fines and suspensions you might want to have a look at this.

    https://library.unimelb.edu.au/borrowing/information/fines

    "STUDENT SYSTEM SANCTIONS
    If you have a long overdue item or unpaid fines of over $25 you will incur a sanction in the student system which may prevent you getting access to your results, transcripts, graduating or re-enrolling. The sanction is cleared when you return the overdue items or pay the fines."

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 18:35
      -1

      I am aware of it!
      However University Sports works as an independent company and late fees are not translated in sanctions to students

  • GangGang on 06/09/2018 - 18:39
    +5

    All your points sound like the standard terms and conditions with gyms around a Australia.

    • nomekop on 06/09/2018 - 19:05
      -2

      So in all gyms in Australia when payment doesn't go through, they stop your membership, or like UNIMELB they keep charging even though you can't use?
      I have seen cases of students who went home for a couple weeks and just with fines they have to pay 30$ as two weeks passed

      • HighAndDry on 06/09/2018 - 19:23
        -4

        I have seen cases of students who went home for a couple weeks and just with fines they have to pay 30$ as two weeks passed

        They're not capable of planning 2 weeks in advance?

        You're really dragging down the reputation of UMelb by the way - the next time I see a job applicant with a degree from there, I feel like I'm going to be obliged to ask: Are you capable of reading contracts before you sign them?

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 09:42

          Hi again!
          As I mentioned many times, I am well aware of the conditions of the contract, and I am understand what I signed for. I am not complaining of what already happened, but I am looking for ways to improve the system which unfairly withholds a service while it keeps charging for it.

          For example, if there is a problem paying a mobile phone service, they don't block your number, they still give you service and they add a fine to your next bill. If they decide to stop the service, they will just cancel your contract all together.

          Sports Centre fines you, keeps charging you BUT withholds the service, and I can't think of other examples of services which would do this

        • HighAndDry on 07/09/2018 - 09:52
          +2

          @manabeins:

          but I am looking for ways to improve the system

          It's not your gym or your system. Why do you think you're entitled to have any input? Go own a gym, then you can set up whatever system you want.

          I can't think of other examples of services which would do this

          Let me assure you that that's definitely only because you're not thinking hard enough. A lot memberships work on a similar system - you have to be in good standing and accounts current to take advantage of benefits, but of course you don't just get to cancel a contract by failing to pay - that would defeat the purpose of a contract.

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 10:05

          @HighAndDry: I think that as members of the society we have the right to question the services we are provided. We might be right or wrong, but to question and open a debate is what allows the system to improve. So we are entitled to have an input.

          The owners might listen to the feedback or not, but that won't change the fact that I will openly question and fight for what (I think) is right. Otherwise we become just pawns of the system. We must be critics.

          And finally about having a membership good standing to access a service. I can't think of a service that CHARGES YOU, but because of a fine doesn't let you use it. Usually to be in good standing is to pay the monthly fee, but if you are already paying, can you come up with an example like this?

          I wonder if they are as strict as Sports in which you could be paying for years, but if in the morning the payment don't go through, in the afternoon you can't get in -.-

        • HighAndDry on 07/09/2018 - 10:15
          +2

          @manabeins:

          but to question and open a debate is what allows the system to improve.

          This isn't a government program. You're not a shareholder of the gym. You don't get any input, what part of that is unclear? It's like if I walked into your home and started telling you how to wash your dishes. You'd be right to tell me to Get the F*** Out. Same here.

          but if you are already paying, can you come up with an example like this?

          The entire point is that you're not already paying. You didn't pay. You forgot to pay. MONEY DID NOT GO FROM YOU TO THE GYM AS YOU AGREED IT WOULD. How many different ways do you want me to say it?

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 10:28
          -2

          @HighAndDry: ok now I understand your confusion:

          • Yes, the money didn't go from the bank account to they gym. BUT they still make members liable to pay for the period they can't use either.

          For example: Let's say your payment don't go through on a Wednesday and you can only fix it until next Wednesday because you are out of the city. They blocked your access, but they will make you liable to pay for the week that you couldn't access anyways.

          They are "effectible charging you" (you will get an invoice) for a period in which you couldn't access. I know of the case of a student who left the country due to an emergency, and when he came back (2 months later), he was given an invoice of 2 months plus four 15$ fines. The irony of the whole situations is that he was not even entitled to access anyways in that time. Is it logical?

          All companies will stop the service the day the payment didn't go through, or give you a fine and continue the service. Do you have a good examples of companies that work as sports unimelb?

        • HighAndDry on 07/09/2018 - 10:32
          +1

          @manabeins:

          BUT they still make members liable to pay for the period they can't use either.

          YOU HAVEN'T PAID IT.

          Let's say your payment don't go through on a Wednesday and you can only fix it until next Wednesday because you are out of the city.

          You're out of the city, you're not using the gym anyway.

          Is it logical?

          Did the gym cause the emergency? If not, why the hell is it the gym's problem? Yes, it's logical. He didn't pay as he agreed to pay. The gym cut off his access as he agreed it could be cut off if he didn't pay.

          You're still arguing that "oh yeah I agreed to this but now I don't want to abide by it."

          Do you have a good examples of companies that work as sports unimelb?

          YES. Like I said, MANY MANY PAID CLUBS work on this principle. Here, I randomly googled "golf club terms and conditions":

          https://www.twinwatersgolfclub.com.au/images/brochures/membe…

          In the event a member fails to pay subscriptions by the due date the member will be liable
          to pay a late payment fee of 10% of monies owing and a notice may be sent to the member
          requesting payment of the account plus the late payment fee within 7 days and in the
          event the member fails to comply with such notice the members membership entitlement
          will be suspended.

          Oh and, 10% of a golf club's membership fees? Much more than $15.

        • Ughhh on 07/09/2018 - 12:30
          +1

          @manabeins:

          you can only fix it until next Wednesday because you are out of the city. They blocked your access, but they will make you liable to pay for the week that you couldn't access anyways.

          I know of the case of a student who left the country due to an emergency, and when he came back (2 months later), he was given an invoice of 2 months plus four 15$ fines. The irony of the whole situations is that he was not even entitled to access anyways in that time. Is it logical?

          In both scenarios, you left the city and your friend left the country. It's there such thing as e-gym? You couldn't access the gym anyway?

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 12:38
          -2

          @HighAndDry:
          Hi!
          The golf example you used just proved my point. The golf club won’t withhold the service, but members can still continue to access. It is only after 7 days when the membership entitlements are suspended.
          I am ok with the 15$ fine, but to withhold access don’t make sense. They can choose to suspend members like in the golf club, but instead they keep billing you for a service you can’t use and accumulating fines.

          Another example?

        • HighAndDry on 07/09/2018 - 12:42
          +1

          @manabeins: No, I'm not going to keep finding examples for you. The 7-day period is discretionary, and fees are still payable while membership benefits are suspended. Go cry elsewhere, I'm done explaining English to you.

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 12:51
          -2

          @HighAndDry:
          My friend, no need to look for examples because there are not. Fees in the golf club are fixed per year, and you just pay in instalments. And of course you have to pay regardless as it is an fixed term contract

          Remember what we are looking for: Company wich offers a service continuously charging in advance, AND withhold the service due to a fine, but make you still liable for the fees.

          The more I read, the more irregular it looks, and even the gyms I googled and called don’y follow such system.

          We’ll see if someone has a good example.

        • HighAndDry on 07/09/2018 - 12:52
          -1

          @manabeins:

          Remember what we are looking for:

          What you are looking for. No one else cares.

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 19:44

          @HighAndDry: :(

      • sahh on 06/09/2018 - 21:47
        +1

        They will keep charging you assuming you signed up on a contract. Based on your criteria and displease at the fees/charges, would you be more suited to going a pay-as-you go system?

        Most gyms have this business model because they want to have certainty over their income as pretty much all their costs are fixed (rent, salaries and wages and assuming their equipment are leased)

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 09:45
          -1

          I am ok to pay the fines.

          What it is very strange is they will charge you the standard fee, but not letting you use the facilities. They might as well cancel your contract instead.
          Options I can think of are:
          1) To charge the fine and standard fee, and letting you use the facilities for a period of time until you fix it.
          2) To pause the membership immediately.
          3) To cancel the contract and charge a cancelation fee.

          Currently they charge the usual fees, but you can't access. And that's an abuse

      • Davo1111 on 07/09/2018 - 09:05

        So in all gyms in Australia when payment doesn't go through, they stop your membership,

        you still build a debt, even if you can't pay it. they might just freeze your door pass.

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 12:42

          Yes. In a reasonable timeframe they will freeze the door pass if you don’t pay. And you are liable for that period. They will also cancel access and membership.

          However In sports unimelb they charge in advance you BUT you can’t use. They even keep your membership running for
          Months without giving you access.

          If you can confirm other gyms do this I’ll let the issue go

        • HighAndDry on 07/09/2018 - 12:43

          @manabeins:

          I’ll let the issue go

          Why the f do we care if you let it go or not? Go waste your time on this.

    • GangGang on 06/09/2018 - 19:48

      I vaguely recall a time when my direct debit didn't go through. The first thing I did was fix it up. Aren't the direct debit a private company handling all the payments? Maybe you should speak with them.

      I guess they could pause your membership until they start receiving payment. That's what your paying for.

      • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 09:49

        This is exactly the point I was trying to make.

        They could even just cancel your contract if they wish. But to charge you for a service not provided, seems strange.

  • Davo1111 on 06/09/2018 - 20:26
    +1
    • How would you feel if they charge you for your monthly phone plan, but you couldn't use it?
    • How would you feel if they charge you for your internet, but you couldn't use it?
    • How wouls you feel if they charge you for your parking spot, but you couldn't use it?

    These things are not necessities, plus all can be paid on a daily rate.

    I'm not at home right now, i dont get a refund on my car registration, internet, electricity day rate etc.

    That's life, deal with it.

    • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 09:28
      -2

      mmm, I think you are confused.

      All the examples you mentioned: Internet, car registration, electricity, are the opposite of the sports facilities, because you can use them if you have a late payment.

      I am not asking for a reimbursement, I am just asking to be able to use the services which they are charging. I am happy to pay the fine as well, but to withhold they service is absurd

      • Davo1111 on 07/09/2018 - 10:34
        +1

        Internet - afaik they might give me a day or so notice, but they can cut me off straight away. I pay monthly in advance

        Car rego - they just cut it, and i am driving around an unregistered vehicle. I pay yearly in advance

        Electricity - incur late fees, eventually cut off. They probably dont cut off straight away because it costs to send somebody around. I have a contract with them.

        I am happy to pay the fine as well, but to withhold they service is absurd

        so you pay the penalties, and then they re-instate the card. This sounds fine to me.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/09/2018 - 07:47

    Direct debit is convenient. It's also a great way for banks to collect extra fees. Honestly that's an awful system, but when has exploitation been illegal? Your Union is the best place to support you with this.

    • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 09:30

      Thank you for the advice!
      I am contacting them already :)

  • Mythreesons on 07/09/2018 - 08:24
    +1

    How would you feel if your house mate stayed at their girlfriends house for a night and decided they should get a discount on their rent this week. Pretty sure if my phone was on a contract and I didn't pay it, they would fine me with a late fee, disconnect my service and I would still have to pay the monthly fee. I am really concerned about this next generation when they are having so much trouble understanding the basic life skills needed just to have a gym membership.

    • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 09:30

      Actually that is not how it works,

      If you are late to pay your phone service, you will still have service for several months. They will keep sending you invoices (and possibly added fines), but the service is not cut until several months later (disconnection fee/contract termination fee might apply). They would never ask you to pay if the service is not active

      • callum9999 on 07/09/2018 - 17:14
        +3

        You're talking complete and utter rubbish. They DO charge you if the service isn't active. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone sign up to 2 year contracts, take the free phone then never pay any of the bills?

        You seriously need to understand the concept of a contract. They are specifically designed to make sure you pay regularly over a set period. Very few contacts just cancel without further penalty if you stop paying - and even if you manage to find one that's completely irrelevant.

        • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 20:34

          My friend, thank you for your reply.

          Otherwise why wouldn't everyone sign up to 2 year contracts.
          Sports unimelb is not a locked-in contract. After 8 weeks you can leave at any time without any additional fees.

          They are specifically designed to make sure you pay regularly over a set period.
          This is not that kind of contract. You pay in advance every fortnight. You pay a fine if payment does not go through.

          Very few contacts just cancel without further penalty if you stop paying - and even if you manage to find one that's completely irrelevant.
          I am happy to pay the fine. I am not asking to cancel the fine. But remember the fine is for a payment in advance! It doesn't make sense to charge for a fine and membership, but deny access to the facilities.

          even if you manage to find one that's completely irrelevant.
          I haven't seen any business who charge in advance, but deny to provide service

  • mjwills on 07/09/2018 - 09:38

    1) Is it legal to charge a processing payment fine for fortnight debit?

    Yes.

    2) Shouldn't UNIMELB SPORTS stop the membership immediately once the payment is refused? Why do they keep charging you for facilities you can't use?

    It depends what the contract says.

    3) Should't they allow members to pause memberships as they prefer?

    It depends what the contract says.

    4) Shouldn't they stop charging members for facilities they can't use?

    It depends what the contract says.

    Please don't reply disagreeing with me. Above are the only valid answers. Your emotional response to every poster who disagrees with you doesn't change that fact.

    This isn't a moral or ethical question. You agreed to a contract (which gave you discounts if you used direct debit - which you were happy to take advantage of - and penalties if you fail to pay). You didn't leave enough money in your bank account, and you got charged a fee. This is life. It has happened to almost everyone. Pay the fee, let it go, and move on with your life.

    • nomekop on 07/09/2018 - 09:49

      Thank you for your answers!

      I was not aware that in Australian law point number 4 was legal as long as it is in a contract (to charge for service they don't provide), it sounds fishy that's all. I can't think of an example of a service that is withhold until you pay a fine. For example when they charge for electricity, internet, mobile, rent, etc, etc it will be crazy they don't let you use it.

      • spackbace on 07/09/2018 - 10:32
        +3

        You realise it's to stop people breaking contracts with no repercussions. If they allowed a payment to bounce, then just went "well that's it we're cancelling your service" then it's actually the customer that wins, as so many have regret after signing 12/24 month contracts.

        They rely on people serving out their contracts… I mean after all you do sign a contract, it's not just some verbal agreement

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