Real Estate Institute of Australia President Says Renters Should ‘Get Two Jobs’ to Buy a House

tsunamisurfer on 07/09/2018 - 15:58
Last edited 07/09/2018 - 16:07 by 1 other user

The REIA President has come out and said on radio that people should "Do the hard yards. Maybe even, God forbid, get two jobs," .

The message as you can all imagine was not received well at all and is causing a storm.

The articles are below.

https://www.realestate.com.au/news/real-estate-institute-of-…

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-06/tenants-unable-to-pay-…

My take on it is what Mr Gunning has suggested has merit from a pragmatic sense.

If your income is below what is required to service home ownership increase your income, and one of the most common ways is to get a second job.

However, his delivery, his tone and who he is (someone that is rich and profits from the very issue preventing his target audience from affording a home) works in concert to make him sound like an insensitive, out of touch, Knob.

Its akin to telling the people to eat cake.

But if we were to put aside the outrage for a brief moment, is there anything fundamentally wrong with Mr Gunning's assertions that people who want but cannot afford home ownership should :

  • Increase income as another way of saying get a second job.
  • Move to a more affordable area
  • Review one's expenses / budget as another way of Mr Gunning quoted as saying "first-home buyers should move away from Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, cut spending or negotiate their rent."

If I were on the cusp of being able to buy my own home, I would happily take Option 1, because just sitting there and bitching about how everyone else is bidding more than me will not get me into a home any time faster.

If your goal was the Great Australian Dream, and it is 'ohh so close' would you be prepared to make additional sacrifices to achieve that goal?

Home & Garden Affordability Property REIA

Comments

        • smartazz104 on 09/09/2018 - 15:15
          +3

          @bobolo: fast internet? Australia? You must be living in the land of make believe.

        • scheps on 09/09/2018 - 21:34

          @try2bhelpful: or simply live out further from city center

    • Donaldhump on 08/09/2018 - 18:01
      -2

      Widowed single mother should have had life insurance on her husband.

  • callum9999 on 08/09/2018 - 17:32
    +1

    It's basic common sense. If you want something but can't afford it then you either go without or earn more money.

    People moaning about it are just over entitled.

    If the government announced it you could complain to them and say that they would regulate the market to make it cheaper etc., but this guy obviously has no power to do that.

    • try2bhelpful on 08/09/2018 - 17:50
      +5

      What rot, you can’t go without housing - shelter is a fundamental need. Actually those of us that got in early and bought housing when you didn’t have to pay 1 million bucks for a house are the lucky ones. I don’t want this for myself I want it for others, I’ve got my property. Renters are being treated as second class citizens, which is why the Victorian government has stepped in. If landlords hadn’t been so high handed they might have been able to avoid this, but forcing people to put down their pets because they can’t find accomodation to take them to doesn’t play well with the electorate. Imagine that set of advertising if the Liberals try to roll that back.

      The fact that someone who would be living very well, and would get even more money if housing costs are high, is coming out with this is not really surprising. Any Government that really addresses housing affordability will get a political advantage.

      • sobes on 08/09/2018 - 19:03
        +3

        As with anything, if something you want is too expensive then your choices are to earn more, or go without.
        If you can't afford a house in the area you want, you either a) look for cheaper property to buy, or b) rent. Nobody likes it when they can't get what they want, but the reality is that's just how a capitalistic society works.

        • scheps on 09/09/2018 - 21:37

          i agree. there are things i want which i cant afford or i would need to sacrifice or compromise further for which i ultimately dont end up having as i think it's not worth it

      • robredo on 08/09/2018 - 20:32

        On housing affordability, one could vote ALP in the next federal election. https://www.alp.org.au/negativegearing. While I don’t necessarily agree entirely with their entire policy, the Liberals haven’t exactly been all that serious about tackling the issue head on. When the tide washes out, we’ll see who’s been swimming naked ;)

      • HighAndDry on 10/09/2018 - 13:04

        What rot, you can’t go without housing - shelter is a fundamental need.

        Shelter is a need. Owning property isn't.

  • diddy50 on 08/09/2018 - 17:52
    +5

    That's how I afforded my first flat. Two jobs, little to no life and saving, bit spending.

    If that's too hard for you, then how could you ever afford to pay off the house?!?

    • robredo on 09/09/2018 - 07:53

      People need to distinguish between the ability to service a mortgage and actually affording to buy a house. With the low interest rate environment and rising house prices that have resulted from people taking on excessive debt, many have been rewarded for thinking that it’s a ‘safe’ investment since the GFC. It’s not. Wages have stagnated, massive companies (like Apple any many others) aren’t paying their fair share of tax in Australia, unemployment numbers are not what they appear in the headline figures, automation and rapid technology advancement are carving out the lower and middle class, politicians are being lobbied constantly by high net worth individuals with their own self interest in mind, and a highly accommodative immigration policy over the years has been undermining the average Australian worker not only in wages but in their ability to find work. It’s no wonder why people find themselves in the predicament where they need more than one job to make ends meet. Excess debt = Enslavement

      • scheps on 09/09/2018 - 21:39

        do you mind linking source for immigrants successfully outdoing locals for jobs. not doubting. i would like to understand why. i am sure many on here would be curious as well

        • nikey2k27 on 13/09/2018 - 05:50

          it mostly low skilled job where immigrants are out doing local for work.

    • smuggler on 09/09/2018 - 15:41

      HOw long ago was that? WEre prices well over 500k like it is now? I doubt it.

  • DiscoJango on 08/09/2018 - 22:00
    +8

    eat less = shit less = buy less toilet paper = save money = housing affordability crisis solved.

    • scheps on 09/09/2018 - 21:43

      Thats true but hard to do in practice. Hence the obesity epidemic. And its made much harder with all the cooking shows, bill boards, instagram and FB shots of what people eating etc etc.

      • DiscoJango on 10/09/2018 - 08:55

        You mean the pics of an impossibly skinny girl sitting in front of a family sized pizza with a burger and chips on the side, pretending that she eats like that every day yet remains somehow a size 4?

        • apptrack on 10/09/2018 - 12:12

          Well she probably eats it, just doesn't get digested

  • paloverde88 on 08/09/2018 - 22:24
    -1

    Real Estate Institute of Australia President ought to have his head dissected for medical students searching for a cure for zombies.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 09/09/2018 - 00:46
    +6

    Housing in Melbourne in f***d honestly better to not work get into housing commission in St Kilda or South Yarra sell drugs for cash like most of them do live the life in great suburbs.

    The Alternative is work your ass off and not afford anything within 20k of the city buy in hillside or Tarniet and get robbed by Apex - the same people stealing money to buy drugs from those living in commission homes….

  • cintamami on 09/09/2018 - 10:09
    +3

    he meant well but with an extra poor delivery.

    Though myself, I honestly dont know how people in Syd and Melb able to buy a property, well I guess, you can, but I dont know how your lifestyle is.

    Having your wife going to back to the workforce isnt really a smart option as well, unless she is earning very good money (over $80k plus) but even then, if you had 2 kids, full time day care……….. you are left with nothing from her salary anyway. Not to mention the priceless things in having kids, see them grow up and personally spending time with them. I already spent slightly less time with my 3 months (planning to have 2) due to my personal job and my business, so I feel that my wife should spend her time with our children more instead of trying to earn extra bucks. As a dad, I will work like crazy, spend more time with my children, go on major holiday once every 2 - 3 years and minor holiday once/twice a year and when the time comes I will make sure that I have enough resources to support them through my kids higher education. I have been brainwashing my son to become doctors. I will do that to my other child as well as soon as he/she enters the world :):):):):).

    I am quite lucky to live in WA and earn good money. But even with my salary and even back to when my wife was working full time, I dont know whether I would have bought a place if we were in Sydney (maybe Melb is possible cos its slightly cheaper). Kudos to you guys in Syd, it trully is a definiton of death to the bank for the average earning family.

    But for the people in Syd (average earning family), there are better options of utilising your cash and living a better life, I could never imagine a young couple eaning $80k each and forcing themselves to buy 650k-800k apartment, well you can if you dont want kids.

    Move to WA or TAS or rural NSW, upskill yourself and good luck.

    For others, rent is dead money, SO IS INTEREST TO THE BANK!!! You just have to choose the which one is cheaper. With the current property prices, I doubt you can say that rent is a more expensive dead money, specially after coupled with propertys outgoing. But you do get stability with your own home, so you just have to work it and think if it is worth it.

    Cheers

  • Chewy Chunks on 09/09/2018 - 12:06

    "Do the hard yards. Maybe even, God forbid, get two jobs,"

    The problem is the "God forbid" part. It implies people know they could just get another job but aren't willing to (i.e. too lazy). Language people choose to use always betrays their real intent, and he just exposed his disdain for everyone.

    • HighAndDry on 10/09/2018 - 13:06

      You're implying people are too stupid to know that a second job is possible?

      • Chewy Chunks on 10/09/2018 - 15:36

        Are you asking me or accusing me?

        The president of this organisation is arrogantly telling people they just need to work harder or get two jobs. Does he think he is telling anyone anything new by reminding people that to increase their income they likely need to work more?

        This is all moot because simply getting more work doesn't necessarily translate into being able to afford a house.

  • Cluster on 09/09/2018 - 12:30
    +4

    The problem with smug advice from rich people with vested interests in real estate is there is no end to their advice. The logical conclusion is they just keep escalating their demands of others:

    Got a full time job and it's not enough? Get a part time job in the evenings. Still not enough? What are you doing with your weekends, there's a good 20 hours of available time to work too. Your partner isn't working because they're taking care of children? Get them to work from home. Psst - are the kids aged 8 or more? Surely they can secretly do some work too! On and on it goes.

    He does realise that pumping up the supply of money going into real estate just pumps up the prices even further, requiring people to work even harder just to remain afloat?

    About the only good, common sense piece of advice he had was to move. We can't all live in the center of Melbourne and Sydney, but so many people still try.

    • r3volt on 10/09/2018 - 16:10

      People live where the work is.

      Urban sprawl and dismal public transport dont help either.

  • Melong on 09/09/2018 - 13:35
    +3

    Instead of complaining, why don’t we put the rest of Australia into the one percent!
    https://youtu.be/hiGEh7UoMYg

  • AddNinja on 09/09/2018 - 15:46
    +1

    I live in a big city, and some real estate guy said it was just big city snobbery that stopped Melbourne/Sydney people from moving to a much cheaper country town - that we tend to think of them as dusty hick towns with no jobs whereas in fact there are many that are vibrant happy places that would benefit from the professions city people bring with them. I have no idea if he was correct about the positives of country living, but he did list all my prejudices.

    • scheps on 09/09/2018 - 21:46

      I think one major consideration would be schooling and education opportunities. That is a major limiting factor for people i know and in fact dont actually prefer to live in the city however they compromise for their kids education.

    • SkMed on 10/09/2018 - 12:39

      I grew up in a country town and moved to Melbourne over 10 years ago. I can assure you that there aren't many jobs in small country towns outside of retail, or working on farms in most areas. There's certainly nothing outside of the city that has anything to do with my career and the career's of most of my friends. I loved growing up in the country, but living there through adulthood just isnt an option. I will most likely be renting through most of my life in the city at this rate then possibly retiring in the countryside in my late 50's I imagine.

      • AddNinja on 10/09/2018 - 13:41
        +1

        Thanks for adding your experience. Certainly then a happy country town is looking like a good place to retire if you are renting,

  • Donaldhump on 09/09/2018 - 16:45

    What about the alternate solution of cashing out annual leave instead.

    • scheps on 09/09/2018 - 21:47

      Great idea, but wont service a mortgage i would be guessing, however, clearly individual situations vary dramatically. But i would also think most people like their holidays.

      • Donaldhump on 10/09/2018 - 13:07

        i like my holidays

        but in this regards i would rather do this than work 10 overtime saturdays. saturday work is hard to find, and generally cheaper paid work that pays peanuts compared to a mon-fri wage.

        you miss out on consecutive days off thats the only downside.

  • moneyhungry on 09/09/2018 - 17:24
    +2

    If you want that extra in your life you need to work hard. No such thing as a free lunch.

  • cannedhams on 09/09/2018 - 19:44

    From an economic standpoint, this is quite simply nonsense, and I can only assume that the person who said this has no knowledge of macroeconomics. Its whats termed the "mercantilist fallacy" - the idea that if we work 24/7 and spend nothing we will all be better off.

    There simply isn't space in the labour market for a significant number of those working one job to pick up a second job. We just don't have that much more additional demand for uber and deliveroo drivers.

    Moreover, at the present time, consumer spending is quite anaemic. If people attempt to work longer, this will have an impact on consumption, and quite possibly result in a net economic decrease.

    Its the same thing as saying that all people need to do to afford a house is to stop buying avocado on toast. In reality, that would simply put avocado farmers, baristas and restauranteurs out of a job.

    As it is, housing is already eating up too much of the pie. The last thing we need is people piling even more money into it.

  • Macgyver on 09/09/2018 - 21:37
    +2

    I thought lifestyle should be getting better not becoming worse?

    • HighAndDry on 10/09/2018 - 15:39

      It is better. It's a lot better. But people don't go outside and see how others are actually doing, they stay in watch the TV and compare themselves to the Kardashians.

  • Atazoth616 on 10/09/2018 - 00:12
    +1

    Instead of purchasing a house people should:

    Establish a perpetuity that returns per annum the cost of living + 3% to be reinvested.

    In theory this should provide the funds to rent indefinitely.

  • freakatronic on 10/09/2018 - 07:14
    +6

    Things Australians have a problem with

    1. People telling them what to do.

    2. Hard work.

    3. People who have more/nicer stuff than them.

    So this realtor hits all three buttons at once and thinks the lynch mob won't come for him. What a goose.

  • imurgod on 10/09/2018 - 08:27
    +1

    He's right. Either that or study, start a business or whatever you need to do to earn more and spend less.

    The fact is that Sydney (as an example) is an expensive city to live in.

    If you can't afford it. Move way out west or South Australia or somewhere affordable for you.

    I just don't understand why all the whining. Take responsibility for your circumstances, nobody owes you a house. I had to work super hard to buy my first property.

    Also, nothing wrong with renting. Owning isn't for everyone.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 10/09/2018 - 09:46
    +5

    Only 2?

    I brought my 1st house at 23 i was working 4 jobs 7 days a week around 50-65 hours - it is called hard work- i do feel for people in the heart of Sydney and Melbourne because the prices are out of reach now for regularly working people no matter how hard you work but there are a lot of people that are simply too lazy or are not willing to sacrifice a bit of short term life style to own there own home. -

    Im 28 and my peers who dont own property or are struggling had this attiude in the early 20s i have to travel to Europe for at least 2-3 months, then after that every year i need a holiday for at least 2-3 weeks (that costs a f*** tone of money), then they need to drive newish cars only low kms will do, and going out on the weekend hell yeah got to spend at least 250-300 on drinks, food, cloths and taxi

    As much as this bloke is a douche for saying it there is some truth to it

    • SydBoy on 10/09/2018 - 09:58

      Housing prices are simply inflatted so high that working 2 or 4 job is not the solution to pricing inflation. 50 to 60 hours per week with one or multiple job will get same earning for those on minimum wages and by the time they reach 20% deposit prices goes up so they keep staying behind!

      With liberal removing penalty rates things will be much tougher for working class people and they will always be running behind making ends meet.

      So rich will Rich and poor stays poor….this is the agenda of people running business (liberal) so they keep getting cheap labour !

      • Trying2SaveABuck on 10/09/2018 - 10:45
        +5

        Not every body who is rich started rich, they just started to do something about it. Most people i know that I would consider 'well off' didnt start that way most of them are 1st or 2nd generation Australians who's parents came here with nothing and got not nothing from the government but instead of moaning they worked long hours and made hard sacrifices.

        Although i agree getting rid of pen rates is unfair(for some) - the Australian work force is NOT cheap labor if anything we have some of the highest wages in the world for low skill workers.

        Im not saying i agree with the way he has made the comments but i get the sentiment. Too many people dont want to work or do what is required to be successful, they just complain that 'rich' people have it all they dont see the effort behind what it takes to become rich in the 1st place.

        As much as i cant stand real estate agents it is one of the most competitive stressful jobs you can do and to be successful you need to be ruthless thus is why most of them leave the profession within 24months because they cant hack it. He is from his experience and that needs to be considered.

        • Cluster on 10/09/2018 - 11:12
          +3

          "As much as i cant stand real estate agents it is one of the most competitive stressful jobs you can do"

          More stressful than a police officer entering a hostage situation? More stressful than an ambulance worker in the red light district on a Saturday night? How about an emergency room doctor at the end of their 12 hour shift? A pilot landing an aircraft in a storm?

          Let's not exaggerate that being a real estate agent is so stressful. Sure, they have to deal with annoying customers with unreasonable demands, and other agents constantly trying to eat their lunch (agents are after all, largely an exchangeable commodity), but one of the most competitive stressful jobs that can be done? No. When's the last time a real estate agent, as part of their job, was seriously injured or died?

        • Trying2SaveABuck on 10/09/2018 - 11:38
          -3

          @Cluster:

          Police officer - lets be real that happens maybe once or twice a year our Police (Victoria) are some of the most useless Police in the world are more interested in road fines then assault and home invasions

          Ambulance drives - i cant argue they deserve there money in fairness they work 4 days on and 4 days off (plus normal leave entitlements) they also make around 90-120k + super a year full time which isnt bad (once they have a few years experience) but they deserve every cent they get plus more

          Doctor - you are on crack they are probably the most over paid profession in this country but if you are talking about on there internship or during there 1st 5 years then they start on a basic wage but it gets better quickly most doctors i know earn close too 7 figures. I'd argue nurses have it much harder….

          Pilot - stressful maybe i dont know i dont know anything about aviation

          All those professions make over the average wage on a 38-40 hour week they also would make well into 6-figures if they did 45-50 hours a week…. this strengthens the argument to work harder not complain about the price housing - if they just saved 30% of there income they would have enough for a 10-20% deposit for a home in under 5-8 years of working….

        • [Deactivated] on 10/09/2018 - 12:16
          +4

          @Pastry: You must be talking about 'specialists' when you refer to doctors. Most GPs I know earn 100-200k for working 60+ hour weeks, and that's before you take out expenses which can be tens of thousands (try pricing medical indemnity insurance). Never mind the decade of very expensive training it takes to get there and the additional time the need to spend training to keep registered. Personally having seen that I definitely avoided the medical profession entirely.

          Nurses have a shit job, but it's easier to qualify for and usually their expenses are covered by their employer.

          If you want to make money in the medical profession you need to own a business and run it ruthlessly. There's no place for caring about patients if you want to make near 7 figures.

          Meanwhile I know plenty of people who have quit their original 9-5 desk job and become real estate agents because it's far easier and lets them work around their kids commitments etc. There are no 'real estate emergencies' that require them to visit someone at 2am or attend court to testify about some horrendous crime etc.

          Being a real estate agent is one of the easiest jobs in the country. Barely one level above asking if you want fries with that.

          You don't seem to know anything about what police spend their time doing either. Domestic violence incidents are a daily occurrence for most.

        • moo on 10/09/2018 - 14:04

          @Bargs: Great post. Much more informed and realistic compared to the garbage spilling out of Pastry’s mouth.

        • Trying2SaveABuck on 10/09/2018 - 14:23

          @Bargs: Fair enough maybe i over stated it let me rephrase it is stressful (not the most but it is stressful)

          But GP's earning 200k or less are either working the public system or they arent working hard enough. I've worked with GPs my whole career never met a full-time working GP that makes less then 300k a year - But i've met ones that make well north of a million a year working 12-8pm 5 days a week - they are not stressed

          I dont think people realise they get compensation for everything weather it be care plans, recommending certain drugs, paper work for work cover/TAC etc GP's are make a killing, Medicare/Insurance is free access to money - just doing a letter for Workcover which takes 10-20mins can be billed for what most people make in a whole day.

          Doctors actually have too much power but because there is a lack of understanding medicine there is loads of poor medical practices out there and i agree the quality of care is compromised in most bulk bill clinics but it is a business and the business comes 1st dont think for a min GP's arent doing well.

          Nursing is f***n hard job god knows i would never do it and they make about 90k a year with enough experience they are probably the only profession that truly care because you wouldn't be a nurse for what you get paid if you didnt love helping people especially in emergency, Psych or in dementia wards

          Probably the only people who have it better then GPs are orthodontist but that is another story…

        • SydBoy on 10/09/2018 - 17:57

          "we have some of the highest wages in the world for low skill workers" and the same worker has to pay highest money to buy house and we have median housing price more than 10 times median wages !!

          Real estate agent are one of the lowest skilled and highest paid professional as long as they can lie, deceive and do what they are supposed to be doing (manipulate) !

        • Trying2SaveABuck on 10/09/2018 - 18:47

          @SydBoy: I agree with you regarding agent most of them are scum doesnt mean it isnt a horrible job

          roughly 30% of people rent in melb and syd that is actually pretty good compared to other major cities like NYC, London etc

          Keep in mind there are people who choose to rent over owning there own home

        • SydBoy on 10/09/2018 - 19:01

          @Pastry: socio economy structure in Europe or States is way different to what Australia has so comparing economy or socio culture won't be same !

          Agree I met few who prefer to rent over buying property. Housing affordability is disastrous at the moment in Sydney and Melbourne but it is affordable in Perth and Brisbane.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/09/2018 - 21:35
          +1

          @Pastry: But i've met ones that make well north of a million a year working 12-8pm 5 days a week - they are not stressed

          Either they are full of shit or you are. Just the paid work you could do in that time, if you ignore all the extra hours of paperwork and unpaid work, comes to about $170,000 worth of billing GROSS. Assuming they have no minutes off in those 8 hours. Then you need to take away costs and insurances, training etc.

          If they're doing private billing exclusively and only seeing people for medical certificates and ignoring anything complex like mental health issues then sure, $300k might be possible. IF you find someone working 40 hours a week and making 'well north of a million $' they're not in Australia or committing enormous amounts of fraud (most likely billing for unnecessary and not correctly completed care plans - It's what I've usually seen in the case of GP's making > $300k).

          Just for reference your 40 hours a week at even $1 million dollars let alone 'well north' is roughly $520 per hour, have you been to many doctors that charged $130 for a 15 minute consultation? The medicare rebate is $37.05 and a heap bulk bill or get paid less / hr for longer consultations. Then they have to do other work such as checking results etc and other follow up unpaid because despite your claim, they don't get paid for everything, every phone call is free and un-claimable. Oh, and this is of course with no receptionist or practice management, insurances etc.

          I've seen the actual books of several private medical practices, what you're claiming isn't reality, it's so far off even basic maths shows it to be false, even if you don't know anything about the expenses required to make that amount.

          Probably the only people who have it better then GPs are orthodontist but that is another story…

          • A GP is the 48th best paid job in the country for men, and 40th best for women according to the ATO. With an average income of $184,639 for men and $129,834 for women in 2013-2014.

          You can see the source data here:
          https://data.gov.au/dataset/taxation-statistics-2013-14/reso…

          If you find a very special niche and operate in the inner city you can make more than the average, but they tend to be doctors that aren't really considered GPs in terms of their day to day anymore (eg skin clinics etc). You can't just choose to do only the most cost effective consultation types unless you specialise and there's few that do.

          Never mind GPs can be sued if they stuff up slightly, and even sued when they do everything perfectly (lots of lawyers that sue everyone the patient has ever seen speculatively), which in itself can require weeks of preparation to defend even if the legal fees are covered by insurance and it gets dropped before going to court, the time is not free and there's no payment for any of that.

          Probably the only people who have it better then GPs are orthodontist but that is another story…

          Dental specialists earn $253,411 on average (Male) and $140,504 (Female).
          Cardiologist $453,252 / $215,919
          Oncologist $322,178 / $208,611
          Gastroenterologist $258,971 / $260,925
          Anaestheist $370,491 / $243,582
          Neurosurgeon $577,674 / $323,682 (This is the best paid job in Australia for men).
          Judge $381,323 / $355,844 (The best paid job in the country for women)
          Cricketer $257,527 (Male)….

          These are all better paying than GPs, and none come close to a million dollars, let alone 'well north'. Million dollar plus salaries are pretty much limited to CEOs (and then only a very small subset thereof since the average of a 'CEO' is $181,849 - Male), million dollar plus salaries just don't exist in salaried work much outside of that.

          Since real estate is commission based, top earners can make in excess of $1 million - no doubt at that end of the pay scale they do work for it but that being one of a very few jobs where that's possible (Others professions that are similar things like actor etc have similar skews at the top). About a third earn >$100k which isn't bad given it only takes about 3-5 years to be able to earn that, compared with most other jobs that require a lot more training to get near that.

  • r3volt on 10/09/2018 - 16:06
    +2

    Real estate agents. The crux of the most useless profession within society

    • idonotknowwhy on 10/09/2018 - 16:19
      -1

      How are they any less useful than airport security and slow/stop sign holders?

      • r3volt on 10/09/2018 - 21:53
        +1

        A guy holding a stop sign has the purpose of directing traffic to keep workers(Who are building road infrastructure) safe.

        Real estate agents just skim money off the top of people's hard work.

        • idonotknowwhy on 10/09/2018 - 23:19

          I mean I hate them too, but they do have good soft skills. The acting and presentation skills at auctions are fun to watch.

        • payton on 10/09/2018 - 23:34

          @idonotknowwhy:
          yeh, acting skill in use when they lie right to your face :P

  • idonotknowwhy on 10/09/2018 - 16:14

    Sounds like a bad time to have too much wealth stored in this country:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lrdxpKPocY

  • alisso on 10/09/2018 - 16:17

    A lot of people here are saying that they worked multiple jobs to get their first house deposit, but that isn't really relevant to what this guy said. You shouldn't HAVE to work two jobs to afford to buy a home. If you want a better home or a better location than you could otherwise afford, sure, but if the ONLY way for the average person to own their own home is to work so much they never see the place, something is fundamentally wrong with the way our economy is functioning.

    • bobolo on 10/09/2018 - 17:49
      +2

      People on average salaries working one job can afford to buy property in Sydney and Melb and anywhere in Australia. Just not in the premium, high demand areas. For that you have to work hard for it just like anybody else.

      While shelter is a fundamental need, owning a house is not. People can and do rent their entire lives all around the world and in Australia and are perfectly comfortable doing so. People also buy and live in properties they can afford in average areas and are perfectly fine as well.

      Just like anything else in life, if you don't want to put in the effort to earn something nice, then you are going to have to settle for something less. It doesn't go from a quarter acre block in Rose Bay to homelessness in the park. There are plenty of affordable options in the middle.

      But hey, whingers gon' whinge

      • Shiny Mew on 10/09/2018 - 21:37

        Plenty of affordable options if you're willing to suffer physically, mentally and emotionally (and probably lose your family) because you have to get up at 5.30am and return home at 9.30pm for a 2.5hr roundtrip commute (and consequently waste 10% of your life stuck in traffic).

        • bobolo on 11/09/2018 - 14:29
          -1

          so you start work at 6:45am and finish at 8:15pm? I hope you're working 2 jobs or getting paid more than an average salary to afford somewhere nicer…

          An hour each way for a regular 9-5 commute is pretty typical for any major city around the world. Also considering people are living in affordable houses with big backyards (talking areas in Western Sydney for example), most comparable cities they will be travelling home to a much smaller condo/apartment.

          Only in Australia do people feel they are entitled to everything handed to them but can't accept that you have to make sacrifices in life to truly get what you want. The guy working 2 jobs is making his sacrifice to have a more comfortable future. The guy that doesn't want to do that needs to sacrifice his quality of life and a longer commute. What's so hard to understand?

      • [Deactivated] on 10/09/2018 - 22:49

        That's fair, but in other countries tenants have a lot more rights / longer leases / are difficult to evict etc. We do need more options in this country (eg 10 year leases where the tenant is responsible for non-structural maintenance required / can paint / hang pictures etc / can't be evicted etc.)

        Owning a home shouldn't be as desirable as it is, our taxation system makes it highly advantageous to own a home and never/rarely move as well.

      • 819mac on 11/09/2018 - 09:49

        Median Australian income is $65,557pa, or $4329.36 per month net income. To avoid mortgage stress, you need to keep your mortgage repayments at 30%, or $1298.7. With a 3.7% interest rate, you are looking at borrowing about $280,000. Assuming you somehow save the $70,000 deposit plus the standard costs of buying a house (call it $80k savings), you can buy a $350,000 property. From personal experience as a young first home buyer who recently bought in the far fringes of one of our capitals, this does not leave too many options. Unless living at home with no overheads it is very difficult to get $80k in the bank by your early 20s, especially if studying or doing an apprenticeship.

        I agree that you need to work hard and can't expect to buy near the CBD at first, but buying a house is a much different beast to what it was 10 years ago or earlier, and it is foolish to equate the experiences of the past.

        • [Deactivated] on 11/09/2018 - 21:37

          Bought a unit in Brisbane in 2009 for $320,000. $14k FHB so only needed $50k deposit, and that wasn't until my mid 20s. It's a dumb idea to buy a house in your early 20s, it's not been something people have traditionally done and you're probably going to want to move if circumstances change and be lumped with big transaction costs.

          And how much is my unit worth now? A nearly identical one sold last year in the same complex for $305,000. Prices have gone nowhere (they were up about 6 years ago but have been slowly falling since). This is 4km from the CBD so not in the middle of no where either. But with all the unit building there's been $0 capital gains, and even drops in established properties given the lack of FHB grants for them these days.

          Granted Sydney and Melbourne have been nuts, but Brisbane is still quite affordable if you don't want to move into your 'forever home' in your early 20s.

          If you're buying a house though, be prepared to commute a heap or have dual incomes or quite a large income. Or maybe buy cheaper earlier and upgrade. Especially in what is likely to be stagnant market and rising rates for the next decade or so, time not paying interest is on your side.

  • Shiny Mew on 10/09/2018 - 21:35
    -2

    The ethical choice would be for the government to remove negative hearing and ban foreigners from owning property. But guess who benefits from the current status quo…

    • cwongtech on 10/09/2018 - 23:09

      The ethical choice would be for the government to remove negative hearing

      I think the ethical choice would be positive hearing from the damn millennials and their smashed avocado.

      But guess who benefits from the current status quo…

      Stamp duty on smashing avocados?

    • [Deactivated] on 11/09/2018 - 21:41

      Negative gearing really isn't having any effect on prices currently because interest rates are really low (most people aren't negatively gearing). It's the capital gains discount which really caused prices to skyrocket. But you don't hear most politicians talking about that because you could quite easily NOT grandfather changes to that in and they'd be screwed.

      Negative gearing just doesn't make sense right now unless you expect prices to rise (lots of inflation), which no one does at the moment.

  • AndyDD on 11/09/2018 - 00:02
    +2

    My parents both tell me they worked 2-3 jobs to get their first houses as single people and renting each room out for something like a dollar a week to pay off the loans as quickly as possible (1960s-1970s).

    I'll ask them how many hours of work that meant, but I'd assume at least 80 hours, if not 100 hours per week (I'm absolutely exhausted working 50). Have no reason to doubt them, they're still working full time in their 70s, despite probably having the means to retire.

    They both paid their houses off in less than 10 years - they were different times, but I reckon a house approx 30-40km from Melbourne, as a couple in this day and age on a slightly below average wage each, could easily be done in 15-20 years with a similar attitude and just a second part time job each (+lifestyle sacrifices), even though the wages/house price differential is obviously much more out of whack.

    Of course how they went about it and the results don't account for their white privilege (as first gen immigrants). And how the underlying societal patriarchy automatically gave them an advantage in life. Well for Dad anyway, his 80-100 hours a week must have been heaps easier than mum's.

  • Mosher on 11/09/2018 - 07:31
    +1

    Start your own daycare centre from your new home and look after the other peoples kids while they work their second job to pay for their house

  • Joxer on 11/09/2018 - 09:36
    -1

    You want to reduce prices? Scrap negative gearing on all real estate… Even commercial rent is excessive.

    This reduces the mindset of property as an investment and allows businesses reduced expenses. Ask any struggling small business and they'll tell you rent is the biggest expense.

    • tsunamisurfer on 11/09/2018 - 10:26

      Scrapping NG will not reduce rents.

      Historical evidence proves that.

      • [Deactivated] on 11/09/2018 - 21:57

        He was talking about prices rather than rents. In any case, rents went down in Brisbane and Adelaide when they were last removed, but up in Sydney and Perth (low vacancy rates even before it was removed). Rents were flat in Melbourne. Basically, no discernible effect on rents. Given the proposal to remove negative gearing was going to grandfather in existing properties, it probably wouldn't have any effect there either. Maybe even an increase in property prices as people held onto properties rather than sold.

        If property wasn't an investment, there wouldn't be anywhere for people to rent. The rather generous capital gains discount does however encourage people to over-pay for properties because the lower returns on rents may be offset by reduced tax on the capital gains. Otherwise property prices would be closer to what could cover rents anyway (eg, negative gearing wouldn't be something anyone intentionally did any more than a business intentionally makes a loss).

  • h4zey on 11/09/2018 - 11:24

    yeah don't mind a 2nd job mate if you are only required to work 3-4 days for the first full time job..

  • happirt on 11/09/2018 - 21:02

    why not 3?

  • Munki on 12/09/2018 - 10:46

    This is something Joe Hockey has been saying. IF YOU'RE POOR, GET A HIGH PAYING JOB. God damn peasants.

  • Thaal Sinestro on 12/09/2018 - 23:47

    The wealthiest 1% of Australians own more than the poorest 70% of Australians. Instead of telling people to get 2 jobs, just put a massive wealth tax on the top 1% and use it to build good quality public housing, or provide mortage assistance to poorer people so that they don't have to rent. Owning a home is the only way of building wealth and getting ahead in Australia. When you retire, it is the onl form of wealth that isn't asset tested for the pension.

    • Bludgeman on 13/09/2018 - 06:19
      +2

      Thats just stupid.
      People SHOULD get 2 jobs if they cant afford things that they want.
      I pay more tax than most people and I probably benefit the least from it. It goes to the people that are too lazy to get out of their comfort zone and actually do some hard work. & your solution is to just tax the wealthy even more?
      How about, if you're poor and capable, do something about it instead of complaining & taking more from the people who already have.

      • whooah1979 on 13/09/2018 - 06:26
        +2

        Working hard for a living? That’s un-Australian.

  • nikey2k27 on 13/09/2018 - 05:48

    As somebody who own a home now and has rental places in my family, Today people want to much too soon I did without to get to my house and now have a nice house.

  • coffeerequired on 13/09/2018 - 11:56

    A reduction in the stamp duty wouldn't hurt, feels like an absolute rip off compared to other countries.

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