Some people haven't been happy about the current trial in Bonython, ACT.
Based on the picture in the article it looks like a bunch of old people complaining.
Are You Concerned about Drone Deliveries?
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The only concerns I have is that it's going to take too long before they're commonplace!
Username checks out!
these are not the Droids you are looking for..
oh no, my neighbours can't hear me mowing my lawn on my john deere over the stupid delivery drones that are probably still more reliable than auspost
No, more useful than Auspost.
But what if it's Auspost that is running the drones?
M.Night Shyamalan could learn lots from you
a bunch of old people complaining
Shocker.
it's all good, until one crashes and kills someone….
.This is why we allow bikes and vans to deliver things. It's impossible for them to crash or kill anyone.
those driverless cars are doing "real good"
.The drones are manually piloted. Is it really so impossible to read linked articles?
@HighAndDry: "Wing has not reported any accidents or crashes during its Bonython trial, but has twice been forced to undertake so-called "contingency landings", where the automated aircraft decides to land because of unsafe conditions"
From the article. I guess it isn't impossible. Comprehension, on the other hand….
@kale chips suck: Were you meaning to reply to another comment regarding 8 months of trials without incident? On that point, the article says:
It noted Unmanned Systems Australia had undertaken more than eight months of flights across Australian, with no reports of crash or accidents.
If you're disputing that the drones are remotely piloted, the article says:
including permitting Unmanned Systems Australia, which operates the drones on behalf of Wing, to fly the aircraft
"Unmanned" does not equal "self-piloted" (in the same way as self-driving cars), just as UAVs (Unmanned Aerial Vehicles) used by world militaries are also remotely piloted. There is a level of automation - in the case of loss of signal, which might force the contingency landings.
If you want more confirmation:
https://www.casa.gov.au/aircraft/standard-page/trial-drone-d…
While an accident is unlikely to occur, pilots will know instantly if any of their drones operate outside of a standard mission.
That's from CASA itself.
Also - current drone regulations don't allow for self-flying drones, you can't even operate more than one drone at a time per pilot.
@HighAndDry: And from Alphabet info, who own Project Wing:
"How does Project Wing's drone delivery work?
The fleet of unmanned aircraft are being designed to collect packages from businesses and homes, carry them to a chosen location, and lower packages to the ground at the designated spot, such as near a doorstep or in a backyard.The automated aircraft fly pre-planned routes and use sensors and software to avoid collisions with drones and other obstacles."
@kale chips suck: Holy sh**** this is by Google? Nice.
But yeah, that quote is what Google is aiming for, from this piece here:
How autonomous are Project Wing aircraft?
While the drones operate autonomously, at present each drone is monitored by a pilot, who can take control of its flight if a problem arises. Eventually Google plans to run a fully automated system, which is safe and effective and doesn't require the pilots to be on standby.
(my emphasis). And just as a comparison point - this is how modern day passenger jets carrying hundreds of people work too so I don't see an issue.
Driverless cars are an order of magnitude safer than people driving. Look at the amount of accidents per 1000KM travelled, not sensationalist headlines "OMGERD DRIVERLESS CAR CRASHED".
They've done plenty of drone deliveries in Afghanistan. The recipient would be out and about, not even expecting the delivery, and then, with the help of SIM card tracking technology, the parcel would be dropped. The delivery company would then subsequently define all recipients in the delivery radius as the intended targets. As a bonus, anyone researching past delivery spots and recipients would also receive a surprise delivery.
Australia is currently conducting illegal bombing in Syria in support of ISIS and Al Quada in their fight against the Syrian Government while the population cracks jokes about war crimes safe at home.
knock knock
I didn't call for a party van…
If belligerents followed laws of war, the first bill would outlaw war altogether.
There’s always one nutbar
Do you really think our govt is not capable of this? They have committed all sorts of crimes on our behalf to prop up the economy. Downvoting does not make it less true
The delivery company would then subsequently define all recipients in the delivery radius as the intended targets.
Sounds like Auspost really, so we're way ahead of the game.
the missile kind, yes. ive seen too much liveleak
Flying untested commercial UAV over densely populated areas is a personal injury solicitor's dream.
Flying untested commercial UAV over densely populated areas is a professional personal injury victim's dream.
The article says they've been tested for 8 months with no crashes.
You should be negged for bringing common sense into a discussion.
You should know better.
Can't wait until Americans start taking pot shots at the drones as they go over their homes. It will be like Clay Pigeon shooting.
No need to wait, they have been shooting at delivery drones the past 5 years.
"Black Hawk down" for drones. Now there is a video game idea in the making.
Leave no drone behind…
And then people start getting hit by the falling bullets/shrapnel
Given regulations WILL be developed, this shoud be less alarming to people than self driving cars everywhere. I vote yeehaw!
Legislation won't stop UAV from crashing. The more widgets we send up in the air the more changes they'll come down when we least expect them to.
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/12-drone-disasters-that…Legislation won't stop UAV from crashing.
The same could be said for cars - but good programming can actually stop UAVs from crashing, but having very conservative conditions under which they'll make contingency landings.
There could be other factors that may cause a crash. Increasing air traffic may cause mid air collisions. A $20 toy UAV could accidentally or purposely cause a collision.
https://youtu.be/9Csh9uUOKNo?t=838@whooah1979: True - but that's why this should be (and if I'm reading it correctly, is) being regulated. I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to fly drones without approval in residential streets anyway.
Not a zero risk, to be sure, but I'd say the benefits outweigh the risks. (Granted, says I, a person who hasn't had a drone crash into them yet.)
you're not allowed to fly drones without approval in residential streets anyway.
https://youtu.be/uarefbw8uek
https://www.casa.gov.au/modelaircraft@HighAndDry: Don't get me wrong. I understand that we're heading towards unmanned and autonomous systems that may improve our standard of living.
What I don't like is the added risk. We already work in a dangerous work environment. The last thing we need is objects falling out of the shy.
@whooah1979: Hahaha no I agree, I've been swooped by magpies enough times to share your distrust of things in the sky.
I would hope that the regulatory bodies keep the density of these things in the air at a low-enough volume that it doesn't create an appreciably higher risk than the people already flying their drones recreationally.
But yeah - mostly my view is that we're heading that way anyways, better to get experience in it, start seeing what regulatory framework works, have some time to slowly adopt, enact and refine the rules (and the risks involved) as early as possible.
Legislation is indirectly stopping them from crashing. There's no-drone zones in several places in Australia now.
I'm looking forward to the drone pirate era.
Tracey Grimshaw will be salivating at the opportunity to do a story about Somali refugees forming gangs to rob stores selling drones, weaponising them with technology from dole bludgers, and taking down Amazon deliveries to Aussie battlers.
The vegetables will watch that after they've watched the news which is a show where they pretend that journalism means repeating what politicians say with no analysis at all.
And then we'll force them to vote.
So when should we seize the means of production?
Compulsory voting is our greatest ace in the hole. It is hard to disenfranchise voters when you insist everyone votes. The fringe can’t take over like in America and the Brexit vote where low turnout can mean crazy decisions.
I’m not that keen on the Murdoch news aficionados, either, but our electorate is like a thermal mass, it evens out the extremes.
@try2bhelpful: If not for compulsory voting Labor would never get in. Which is why we should ban it. Why force a donkey vote.
Lol. Yeah I agree, like with the majority of your statements. But don't you ever think it's a lost cause?
I mean I admire the idea of speaking truth as a form of protest, but I'm more resigned to having a few beers, playing battlefield 5 and watching the world trump itself, I realise I'm part of the problem, since I'm certainly not part of the solution, but where do you get the energy?
You must have kids or something.
@ozbjunkie: Meh, you were just asking questions and expressing your laziness. You'll have to do better than that :-)
That sounds a bit extreme - when a GPS and mobile jammer will probably work.
Drone hoons
I don't want aircraft noise in my suburb so Amazon can save money.
Aircraft noise, lol. They don't have twin turbo jets on them, nor are they a helicopter.
UAV motors does produce a rather noticeable sound during take off and landings. The motor sound from the Inspire at 100' (30.48m) is easy to hear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5DYre_EZKUOne could assume that any increase in commercial UAV air traffic in residential areas may cause more noise and RF pollution.
Actually yeah you're right that is pretty noticeable……
@Zachary: This is the UAV that's being trialled.
https://abcmedia.akamaized.net/news/video/201811/NOLn_Drone_…
Well it would be aircraft noise if there's more than one flying around to do deliveries……like maybe 200 or more of these flying just over houses? And I'm assuming they would get bigger ones to deliver the heavier or and bulkier items like fridges or furniture…..and they would be even louder still, still think there won't be any aircraft noises around the area, hm?
Surely fridges and furniture would be off the cards. You'd need a full sized helicopter.
@rhino015: …or 50 or more drones……depending on lift capacity of said drones, I don't have one so I don't know how much a typical drone can lift up, and still take off and land safely without damaging the product(s)….
If they're doing drone deliveries to completely phase out road deliveries, I don't think anything is off the cards…..
And I reckon it wouldn't be 200 of them in one area. The whole idea is that they don't take any manual labour. So it'd be a smaller number of them making more trips, because buying the drones would be the main cost. They can spend all day dropping delvieries here and there without any issue. And not every house has a delivery every single day. It'd be spread out. The only exception I can think of is dinner time if it was used for food deliveries, because then a lot of people would need deliveries at the same time.
Arguably a drone is no more noisy than a delivery truck driving past your house, so net noise gain would be zero
A delivery truck has 20+ parcels. How much noise is 20 drones+?
You wouldn't have 1 five minute window in the day where 20 $1500 drones would deliver 20 parcels worth $20 each. Wouldnt be economical. The one drone would do many trips throughout the day, so you wouldn't get a 20 drone noise at once issue. And not every house would have a delivery that day. How many houses away can you hear one drone from? I can't imagine you'd hear it 20 houses away either.
@rhino015: If the customer paid for express delivery or same day delivery or something similar, they would have to….
OP why didn't you capitalize "about" in your heading? I just have to know…
That's what OzBargain recommended from what I typed in, I just clicked accept recommended title.
Subject: Are you concerned about drone deliveries?
Suggested format for above title:
Are You Concerned about Drone Deliveries?
I like the concept of using them.
less polluting.
less road trafficless polluting.
How so? UAV use batteries that needs to be charged. >76% of electricity produced in Australia is from fossil fuel.
less road traffic
Perhaps less road traffic, but definitely more air traffic.
Because the parcels still need to be sent, and propelling an unmanned drone will take less energy than propelling, at a minimum, a delivery bike + rider.
And even better, a drone won't just hover outside your house for a while and fly off because it's too fat/lazy/behind schedule to walk up your apartment stairs.
There is a limit to how many articles an UAV may carry and deliver on one run. A Hiace LWB may carry 6m3 of cargo or about ~800 mail articles on one run.
The UAV in the link is delivering one coffee order on one run. A Hiace may deliver enough coffee for a high rise building.
https://abcmedia.akamaized.net/news/video/201811/NOLn_Drone_…@whooah1979: A delivery drone uses about 100w of power which translates to 80g of carbon dioxide produced for every hour of use in Australia
A conservative estimate of how much fuel a van uses in delivering parcels is 4L per hour, which translates to approximately 9kg of carbon dioxide being produced for every hour of use.
So, conservatively, a delivery van produces 116 times as much carbon dioxide as a drone does per hour.
A drone also flies directly to the destination rather than inefficiently using a traffic network.
Can a van perform better than 116 drones performing simultaneously?
a delivery van produces 116 times as much carbon dioxide as a drone does per hour.
It should be 112.50 times.
Can a van perform better than 116 drones performing simultaneously?
The UAV that Wing are trialling have a payload capacity of 1500g.
https://wing.com/intl/en_au/australia/#testing-drone-deliver…How much weight can the drone carry?
Our drones can carry packages that weigh up to 1.5 kilograms (kg).A Hiace may carry 1000kg of cargo. It would take 666 UVA to carry same amount of payload. That's about ~53280g CO2 p/h.
@whooah1979: But drones are down-scalable, in a way that the Hiace isn't - you have to use one Hiace even for 100kg of cargo as for 1,000kg of cargo. Not to mention that economies of scale in energy production mean that the electricity powering a drone is (should be) generated far more efficiently than the energy powering the Hiace van. (Electric vans in the future may blunt the advantage somewhat).
You then also have the fact that the Hiace must use an inefficient route to deliver its cargo (even if it's packed to capacity) whereas a fleet of drones can use the shortest route for each individual delivery and also be far easier to optimise.
Btw, I'm not saying Toffees is necessarily correct, but I don't think efficiency (or lack thereof) is knowable to the extent of being able to use it as an argument for or against this.
@whooah1979: Can't argue with the logic about CO2, Whooah1979. Not that fussed about it tho tbh. If it's quicker or cheaper delivery than Aus Post then I'm sold. I don't see the issue with noise. It's like nobody lives on a main road? My house backs onto a thoroughfare through Kambah (60 zone) and I hear buses, motorbikes, cars, burnouts occasionally even, and I hardly ever notice it anymore. I only do when I'm not busy doing anything and I'm outside sitting silently by myself or something. Drones wouldn't be anywhere near that loud or that regular. I'd only hear take off and landing for my own house and maybe 1 or 2 other neighbours where I am (if I was outside standing silently, not busy doing stuff), and I doubt they'd be getting deliveries that many times every day.
@Toffees: So glad someone here did the maths so I didn't have to.
Was going to that make the argument too, that electrical energy use is << than petrol. Also there's overhead of the petrol having to move the heavy vehicle steel chassis.
Right now Wing are operating out of a greenfield site, their energy sources are limited. Once they move to a more permanent site they have indicated that they are excited about the possibility of utilizing renewable energy i.e. solar.
If anything happens I'm sure they'll resend an item
The drones will have cameras so they will have footage of what happened.
The question is will they have black boxes.
"Black Hawk down" boxes.
…well they won't have them if someone shoots them down…..and steals the drone from themselves……
I assume it's uploaded to the cloud in real-time, seeing that it needs a data-link to be piloted anyway.
@HighAndDry: That would be some strong WiFi to be uploading 1080p videos in crystal clear definition right back to command center…..or maybe even 2160p videos…..for even clearer yet visual…
@Zachary: It wouldn't need to be 1080p60 or anything like that. Plus - there's already a live video feed *because these drones aren't automated, they're piloted. Something like 720p30 is probably easily doable over 4G internet.
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I for one welcome our robotic overlord masters