2 tins per customer clearly not working, my Coles has empty shelves and I see at least one article a week at a different place where they record people shameless Chinese buying baby formula in bulk. I'm bloody sick of it and I don't even have kids.
Is there anything we can do to stop it? Name and shame?
There is no right or wrong way sell this good. Stock it on the shelves and sell it. Rinse and repeat.
@ClawShrimp: Not everyone can perform any given task. I'm well aware of that, you're simply stating the obvious.
In this age of implants, non-medical cesareans and commercialism, I think it's useful to remind parents that they aren't above the other mammals in their obligations to their young. Breastfeeding has worked well for hundreds of millions of years and has a whole host of important hormonal, psychological and immune benefits as well as nutritional ones.
@Scrooge McDuck: Whos going to whinge if everyone did the obvious?
But of course no-one does because everyone wants convenience for themselves and think their precious little babies can only survive on one single brand of milk powder.
I have no opinion on the people who buy and resell the milk powders, but people seem to always find something to whinge about.
@Scrooge McDuck: As a parent that had our problems with breastfeeding these sort of comments are really not appreciated. These flippant, broad and obvious statements do nothing but fuel the massive stigma and judgments that parents that can't breastfeed face. I would say YOU are simply stating the obvious. Yes natural is best and most people using formula know this and want to do this but just can't.
Most babies are pretty picky with their formula too - we had to cycle through a huge range before being able to settle on a brand that worked for our bub. We were lucky that it wasn't one of the high demand brands in China. I really feel for the parents who need A2 or some of the other highly sought after brands.
@whooah1979: We need to bring back wet nurses (with adequate health checks and screening), milk drives and milk banks! #Bewbs4Babes
@LFO: Problems were medical.
200 years ago, without a wet nurse babies that couldn't be breastfed in all likelihood would have died.
Just like diabetics less than only 50 years ago would of died without insulin. Just like people died without antibiotics for a whole raft of things a hundred years ago. Do I really need to explain to you how the human race continued to survive?
You are contradicting yourself by saying breastfeeding is the best alternative. If anything formula is the alternative, not the primary solution. I have already acknowledged that - the problem is that the whole "breast is best" thing has created a huge stigma for those who formula feed. Look at the way Scrooge made his comment, and look at the way you have made yours - automatic implication that people are lazy, simply not trying hard enough or too busy with work. This all adds to the unneeded shaming and stigma that puts massive pressure on those that have problems with breastfeeding and need to use formula, which is a much larger number than you think.
Babies have died of dehydration because parents have been shamed into into not formula feeding but were also not producing enough milk - this is a thing. There was a big story around March last year where a baby in the US, Landan Johnson died of dehydration because the mother wasn't producing enough milk and her doctor and support group insisted she kept breast feeding. In fact this case started a movement called fed-is-best to help support parents against judgmental people like you.
Yes breastfeeding is the best option, but in the end fed-is-best. But you keep fighting your good fight.
@Scrooge McDuck: Far far less then you think. We persoanlly don't know any parents that are using formula for convenience, and plenty out of necessity, either for medical/physiological or as a supplement for supply issues. Out of curiosity how many people do you know that are using formula for pure convenience? Even looking at this thread alone i can see plenty of genuine examples of why people need formula, and not a single one about it being a simple want. I'm not sure if you have kids but it's just about impossible to go through the process without being educated on the benefits of breast feeding.
Those consequences you talk about are verging on hyperbole. By the same token I can say how many expectant, current and future mums who have now read your comments are going to edge into post natal depression because it makes them feel that little bit worse about themselves? How many mum are now going to not give a life saving bottle of formula to a child as a direct consequence of reading your comment? How many people have read and upvoted your comments are now feeling empowered to make a snarky comment to a mum bottle feeding her child in public with zero knowledge behind why?
I can't stress enough that I (and I imagine most people) agree that breastfeeding should be the first option. By all means advocate breastfeeding, but don't demonise formula at the same time. Why the need to sensationalize your moral preaching with links to implants, non-medical cesareans and commercialism and add fuel to another problem? Why not address both in a positive decent way?
Words matter - even if you did not intend that outcome look at the people that have followed up on your comments:
@Cunning Linguist: What would your personal experience or feelings have to do with the accuracy and legitimacy of his advice? He's right. It doesn't matter if you don't like to hear it, he's still right. Everybody knows there are exceptions to the rule, that doesn't mean that everyone else ought to silence the truth in order to protect the feelings of a small minority. Especially when there are many more people who, it would seem, stand to gain by being reminded of that advice. I would expect you to have the sense and awareness to understand that the advice obviously doesn't apply to you if precluded by some physiological issue; that doesn't mean nobody else can hear it, and it also doesn't mean you can't support it!
@NotSureAboutThatMate: He is right, breast feeding is the better healthier option - this has already been established. The problem is that there was no need to demonise formula while doing so and contribute to another, more pressing issue.
Also I feel you have your rules and exceptions mixed up - you'll find these days that convenience formula feeding is very much the minority, not the rule.
I think it's useful to remind parents that they aren't above the other mammals in their obligations to their young.
Hence they buy formula…???
You know, spend an extra $50 a week on stuff they could make for free if their tit's were working.
Yes,
Breast is best.
And you already seem to have lost your flippancy.
I just wanted a crack at being a smartarse.
@cameldownunder: Wow…mate.
That was a real emotional roller coaster.
I didn’t see the sarcasm until the end, and by then my blood was already boiling.
I’m not even made. Well played.
@ClawShrimp: Most find excuses not to breast feed than because of genuine/medical reasons in my experience. I do understand that breast feeding isn't easy for a new mom.
@negger: And what is your experience?
I’ve had three children. None were able to be breastfed for a number of reasons. We weren’t finding excuses.
@ClawShrimp: It is not easy and I am sure there are plenty with genuine reasons why they can't breastfeed. There is a tendency to take the easy route among baby formula crowd in my experience. They are quick to defend themselves too but I don't see a reason why they have to if that's what they are more comfortable with because of whatever reason.At the end of the day, I don't think anybody is a perfect parent.
@[Deactivated]: Just came to lol at this attitude. Chinese on the run from a centrally planned, state economy using capitalism to make westerners scream for the protection of a centrally planned, state run economy.
Capitalism isn't utopian. It doesn't cause economic heaven in earth, and nor is it meant to. It's just a system for managing exchange at an agreed price. Both participants in the exchange agree to the exchange voluntarily. I could sell an egg for $1m and if I find a willing buyer then fair's fair. This can cause problems when supply doesn't meet demand. Prices get bid up, whatever. It's not heaven on earth, but it is the "least worst" economic system ever used. Most of you were happy to see your real estate investments ballooning on Chinese money. Now you want to kick them out over milk powder? Make your mind up, Australia.
A state run economy would, at gun point, enforce a set number of goods to be produced at a set price every day. When demand outstrips supply, you have the same shortages but the manufacturer is unable to continue supplying. The cost of supply will have gone past the price of the good. This happens every time a government tries to supplant the market. Uncle Karl's price and supply targets are Uncle Karl's own ideals. Not necessarily connected to reality, or the cost of manufacturing and supply. So the shortages continue under Uncle Karl, but then you need to raise taxes to grow the police state. Need more police to crush the resistance cells forming out of unemployed farmers and manufacturers who couldn't afford to produce, and now just can't afford to eat.
The people who hate capitalism the most are unsurprisingly the people with the least to offer a market. Communist dissidents have the lowest strength, skills, and IQ. They are the least helpful people and it's obvious. No one wants to hang around a leftie commie - they're miserable about everything and morning's ever good enough. They can't get hired because they've spent the last decade failing feminist dance history in some fifth rate online college. So they sit in the gutter screeching in mad jealousy at the people who have more than them (and that's generally anyone with the diligence and grit to work at all). That's what you're asking for when you ask for price controls and government regulation of supply. You're asking for the most miserable and useless people on earth to properly do something that no one can do perfectly.
@freakatronic: Thanks a lot, That's exactly what I wanted to hear.
I said we should appreciate our last taste of freedom left before people ask for more regulations from a totalitarian government or totalitarian cults like "Green gangs." who want to shovel their ideas down everyone's throat! Hope it did not look differently coz looks it triggered a lot of commies for sure! My favourite part was when you crushed feminism. Not a fan of commies at all!
There is a reason they just drop the pallets at specific times. The line waiting for new stock is ridiculous and like a literal stampede at some stores, I have plenty of mates and woolies and coles and they can't stand it.
If they try enforce the limit they are just met with literal kicking and screaming, it sucks for workers, it sucks for mums and it sucks for people just wanting to do their shopping. Seeing this behaviour as seen in videos from adults is just really sad, money really is a cause of evil…
I just hope Police continue to crackdown on the amount of this shit that is stolen through self serve.
@mezje: Breast is Best
But as everyone has said sometimes it isn’t possible or feasible.
Me and my wife have just had a baby one month ago and from the time we were in the hospital we always got told the same thing, Breast is best. Don’t worry if there’s no milk it will come just keep trying. Don’t worry your doing it right it will work eventually. So we just kept trying and trying. After we left the hospital we had midwives visit to make sure everything is still going well. Our baby had no energy, had a fever, couldn’t do a wee or a poo. We were told if we kept trying to breastfeed for another day our baby would have to be rushed to emergency and could very well have died. Breast is best but I think having a living baby is better.
As for the baby formula. It can be a problem and a lot of stores will just keep selling whatever they have as it’s better business for them. I have seen a few stores that actually save a lot of their stock out back so that it’s there when a parent needs it. Perhaps you could try calling your local store to reserve some or ask when they are likely to get more stock and you might be able to get to it before the resellers do. In general I have, so far, had a harder time buying bottled water than milk formula (fortunately we don’t use a2).
@Scrooge McDuck: Another insensitive comment to a new parent giving advice they should have started doing something 'years' ago. Give your agenda a rest, your point is made.
@[Deactivated]: You are presuming that the user won't have any additional children and that no one else will read my comment. This is a public forum, advice provided may benefit any reader.
Regardless, there's no negativity nor judgement in that particular reply. It's purely a positive suggestion. Further, there's still value in learning alternatives after the fact, even if you don't plan to repeat. It adds to a person's experience which they can offer to someone else, and be more at ease with their own understanding. We shouldn't have to walk on eggshells with unknown online users by default.
Stop looking for offence in things. If you continually look for negativity, that's all you'll find.
@Breeso: @Breeso sorry to hear that, my wife had appendicitis 3 months after baby 2 was born, so we had to use formula for a bit but my wife effectively lost her milk (went from pumping out a full bottle to pumping out a few mL), we had to supplement with formula and do lots of pumping and it wasn't working.
If your ever int he situation again, I found bookie bikkies (in particular the active ingredient brewers yeast), between those and lots of pumping we got it back, though in hindsight it would have been good if we didn't because after a year of sleepless nights turns out our little one had developed lactose intolerance which was causing her pain and waking her (and us) up at night.
@Scrooge McDuck
While yes there are lots that opt for formula for convenience (just like those that opt for c-section delivery for convenience/personal reasons), "Breast is best" doesn't help the situation, the correct phrasing is "whatever keeps the baby fed is best", breast is usually easier and cheaper but sometimes formula is whats needed.
Wouldn't the easiest way be detect baby formula in packages and simply have them destroyed (i would say give them to the needy but i wouldn't can trust the quality of it from an unknown source), if its treated the same as drugs by customs then the demand for it would disappear as its not likely to make it to the destination.
@mezje: The police won't crackdown on sh1t. Obviously they send this stuff through the mail to China and nobody can stop it. Put an export tax of 400% on tins leaving the country which must be pre-paid. If it isn't then it should be seized and given to charity.
I heard about this and have seen this happening in Chemist George St. Still, I cant see how its a bad thing. Surely baby formula is not natural resource.
Just because it's not 'illegal' doesn't make it right…
It's certainly difficult to define right and wrong. I think sometimes the legal system gets it wrong, and will expand on what you said with:
1. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.
2. Just because something is illegal, doesn't make it wrong.
As for the milk powder issue, I can see why there's demand for it (babies in China have died!).
But those who are selling it overseas are just profiting from a poor situation. They're depriving Australian children of sustinance.
Before someone replies to me with "breast is best", there are mothers who are incapable of breastfeeding due to physical problems, too poor to be able to take the full 9-12 months off work that a baby needs to be breastfed for.
So ^ is a morally great area, but here's where in my view, it becomes pretty clearly wrong:
On wechat right now, there are stores operated by Chinese people who are buying the supermarket milk powder, and selling it to mothers Australians at a mark-up!
These lazy assholes are too lazy to even ship it to China, and are just broden-ing milk powder like it's Classic NES consoles!
There is NO right or wrong in business, you would know it by now. Only what is legal or not, even that some can even bends the laws to suit their business …
Is it really that wrong? What we have, is Chinese parents so concerned for the safety of their babies, that they are willing to buy for a lot of money good formula from a regulated market such as Australia. This has led to opportunistic people buying it for them.
It's just supply and demand - willing buyer, willing seller even with the shipping costs added. Plenty of people, particularly those on Ozbargain, would buy parallel imports or electronic goods from Asia online. I've done it in the past (not anymore) with Finish dishwasher tablets, plenty of SD cards and digital cameras etc. Some of those would be from sellers who just buy them at a retail store down the road then sell online to Australia. However the dishwasher tablets are probably a bulk buy from a wholesaler. Similar to that, the solution to this is not to 'restrict' how much people can buy - Really the solution is to increase wholesale supply of a quality assured supply chain of regulated product to capitalise on the situation and ensure it can be bought for a premium price by willing buyers from China. I can't believe all this time later there aren't more Australian people selling into China on bulk scale to stamp out the individual supermarket purchasers!? Surely the capital investment to set it up would be worth it… or do the buyers just not trust larger companies?
Or are there systemic, regulatory, process or trade/tarrif barriers that either get in the way or diminish the profitability of the venture. Are there Chinese officials to be bought off, are there health authorities to be appeased or are there licenses to obtain. Obviously private citizens working under a loose banner probably tick none of these boxes but a legitimate wholesale business would have to. i have a friend who tried this and had some initial success but was eventually scuttled by a raft of local and foreign regulators, departments and officials.
Tell that to the parents in China, would you buy formula with melamine?
I'm sure it's illegal to evade tax.
ATO dob-in line to report any daigou you know:
https://www.ato.gov.au/About-ATO/Contact-us/Report-fraud,-ta…
The description is very detailed also!
Sydney, Australia direct mail, Australia, New Zealand local manufacturing, domestic sales, authentic and quality assurance, the store only do direct mail, not in China, no bonded warehouse. All products are purchased from Australia's local supermarket Coles, Woolworths and pharmacy Chemist Warehouse, Priceline, with invoices to ensure first-hand sources. Due to the limited purchase of Australian milk powder, I will purchase the goods in different supermarkets or pharmacies, but I will not choose the Chinese supermarket. The store also offers luxury and bracelet bead purchase. Also support Alipay or WeChat RMB payment, please contact me first
It usually takes 10-15 days to mail from Sydney to mainland China. You need to provide a positive and clear photo of your ID card for customs clearance. The specific mailing time is subject to the current situation. If you need to mail to Hong Kong and Macau or overseas, please contact me first.
My husband and I are both Australian citizens, purchasing Australian milk powder, health products, and Australian specialties. Purchasing is actually your porter, from purchasing and shipping, to customer service, every time you get deep roots in the middle of the night, you need to go to work the next day, so please reply later, please understand.
The date of milk powder production will be synchronized with Australian supermarkets and pharmacies. Generally speaking, it will be the first 2 months or 3 months of the month. For example, it is December, and the production date of milk powder will be in September or October. The date of production recently purchased is January 2017, and the warranty period is January 2019. If you are unable to update it in time or have questions, please contact me first. Expire date Jan 2019.
Please note that this product is not packaged before purchase. The postage fee for Australian direct mail to China is 90 Australian dollars. The total price is the price of the goods plus the postage. Please pay in time after purchase, and check your binding EBAY/PAYPAL after payment . E-mail or login to EBAY account, I will contact you directly through EBAY. If you are unable to pay, it is because I need to manually confirm your order to pay, please wait a few hours and then log in to your EBAY account to pay. If you need to buy more quantities, please contact me first to add enough stock to you to buy. Thank you.
If you want to post them to other countries besides China, p lease contact me for the quote first before you buy it now, as the postage is different.
From birth to six months, your baby goes through an amazing period of development, and appropriate nutrition is important.
S-26 GOLD ® NEWBORN is a premium infant formula that provides complete nutrition for babies from birth. Its protein source is alpha-lactalbumin enriched whey protein concentrate and non-fat cow's milk.
@[Deactivated]: "Every time you get deep roots in the middle of the night"
What the hell does that mean?
@bmerigan: Some people wake up in the middle of the night (witching hour) and want to spend quality time with their partner.
Thot patrol hotline.
Willing seller, willing buyer.
Sounds like things are working the way they should be.
As for those who say that these people are making it difficult for other parents, here's a link for them:
https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/search/products?searchTer…
Most expensive is $35 - and all in stock.
Buy two tins a week and you're covered.
True, the market should be free, apart of skyrocketing milk powder prices, the effect is little to nothing.
"Skyrocketing milk powder prices…"???
See: http://www.agriculture.gov.au/milkpriceindex
I wouldn't call that skyrocketing.
@Almost Banned: Way to go.
I meant if that happens at all but thanks for the information. The market should be free unless something crazy goes down. There is demand, there is supply. I don't understand the tantrum!
you have just listed generic infant milk powder. you can make your child very sick if you feed a newborn toddler formulation…
they might not be in stock…
good luck getting 0-6months aptamil or a2… Frequently the products never appeared online..
even if you order two tins, theres a good chance that the order will not be filled.
there a human woolworths shoppers that push a trolley down the aisle and take products off the shelf… They do not go into the storage and look for products. This is not Amazon with robotic fulfillment and central warehousing…
if the shelf at your local woolworths is empty, you don't get the product.
We did the online ordering and paid the yearly woolworths shopper plan to reduce shipping costs. You will get out of stock notifications. We were lucky to get 1 out of six orders filled. depending on what time you want it delivered, the personal shopper will start doing the rounds XXX hours before it get shipped.
good luck getting 0-6months aptamil or a2… Frequently the products never appeared online..
You're not limited to just Coles and Woolworths. Nutricia's own web store stocks Aptamil with free delivery for 3 tins. A2 can also be purchased from A2's web store, including a message to get in contact with them if you can't find stock in store and they guarantee to get you stock delivered to your door (I have no idea if delivery is free or not with A2).
It just look bad for the rest of the Asians who earn a living in a normal way. Do the right things and there won't be a public bashing.
No race or ethnicity should be subject to collected "punishment". Each person should be treated as an individual.
I don't think he was talking about an actual bashing… Of course if a group of people disproportionately act in some socially-unacceptable way, they ought to be condemned for it. It's quite clearly correlated with their ethnicity/nationality. And it's definitely efficient!
I think people would laugh if, for example, there was an ad campaign featuring some pale Swiss-Australian couple unscrupulously transporting baby powder to Europe, with a scary voice-over warning Australian residents against the illegal export to their home country.
Everyone knows the source of the problem. You don't look virtuous if you pretend there's no race factor here, you just look stupid or nauseatingly willfully-ignorant.
Nope. It looks bad for the news orgs pushing lazy, racist journalism.
This has been going on for over a decade. If our grocery chains can't get their poop together in a decade and order extra for export entrepreneurs, then there is something seriously wrong.
It's not like there is real money in it. If there was Coles and Wollies would be importing directly.
They do, Woolworths have their own Tmall store.
https://woolworths.m.tmall.com/?ajson=1&parentCatId=0&refer=…
It may not be illegal but you'd have to be a xenophile of the most destestable order not to acknowledge a serious problem with foreigners coming to your country to pilfer your nation's supply of baby food and send it back home for their own. This is almost some cuckoo-bird-level parasitism.
it is all Legal
More importanlty the listing are for 6 tins!
I feel this post is more able creating hate than anything else
I do not support them buying out all the formulas but do not misread the listing
Because we live in communities where we agree to behave in certain ways and taking all the formula and reselling it and not leaving enough for people who actually need it isn't behaving in the "spirit" of a community.
not worth it.
I'd question how income is being declared in the majority of reselling setups.
In additional I thought at most large supermarkets also have policies about sales not being available for commercial quantities as part of the agreement with their suppliers (I think that's the case with Dan's on the alcohol side as well). The volume negotiations that the large players have can make it cheaper to buy from a supermarket then directly from the supplier, especially when there are sales.
So not criminal activity, but certainly possible issues in terms of contract and tax law.
Not that I see anything done wrong, we don't have any export quotas. I'm surprised one of the supermarkets hasn't just set up an export arm, surely there is money in it.
I can get some locally I can sell you if you're short?
There should be a $5-10 deposit on the tins to prevent export.
they will just add $5-10 on top of the price then.
Only if you don't return the tin.
Tins cost less than $5ea landed. A $5 refund could easily mean a loophole where empty tins are imported for profit on refunds.
@whooah1979: Empty tins fall under dairy product import controls due to CJD mad cow disease and foot and mouth concerns.
surely that would outrage the majority of parents whom now have to store and keep and return tins
also "crisis" only exists on select brands
if one company sees that they can potentially get more money from this "scheme"
welcome to the bandwagon the rest
so now you have not only not solved the problem you have created one where one did not exist prior
The daigou market is what the infant formula companies are aiming for to succeed in China
Good idea
I'm bloody sick of it and I don't even have kids.
Australia manufacture some of the best milk formula in the world. It's reliable and trusted by many international markets. We should export more not less.
We shouldn't export more if people are having a hard time finding it here.
The sale of milk formula in Australia is unregulated. John and Jane of any race have the right to buy as many tins as they may get their hands on.
So it's first in, best dressed.
@[Deactivated]: Aren't you race baiting by questioning race?
He explicitly said "John and Jane of any race", to inform readers that John/Jane does not mean someone that is British/Caucasian, so as to dissolve the topic of race from the subject matter.
It's like someone telling you that "they will not stereotype Italians" and you go around and start yelling "this guy said he hates Italians". Mentioning something does not make it racist (or race baiting), especially when out of context. And if context doesn't matter, then it means in-practice that free(dom) speech cannot exist and gives huge power to governing agencies.
" Peace at the cost of Freedom, isn't Peace at all "
@Kangal: Did somebody mention race? That's racist. Did someone call someone a silly woman? That's sexist! Did somebody say rich old white men are the problem? Make that last one a headline it's all good.
Outrage culture is ridiculous. Offense is taken not given! Get a life virtue signallers!
And Aussies have every right to condemn this policy! This country doesn't exist to feed the next generation of Chinese. What kind of nation has no preference for its own children, over complete strangers?
@NotSureAboutThatMate: Australia?
No preference for who buys the houses, gets the jobs. Shall I add more?
The brand with the biggest premium to the Chinese daigous is A2m, which isn't even made in Australia (imported from New Zealand) they only buy the other brands when A2m is out of stock.
And if you really want to buy A2M for your kids you can just email A2M directly, they give you a code for their online store and provide you free shipping.
Never heard of free shipping code given by them. You need to buy 5 tins to get free shipping. I think you are dreaming?
A2 just Licenses dairies producing milk. They produce/process relaticely little. They definitely make product in Australia
How are you having trouble finding it? I can go down to a chemist like Priceline or a supermarket and find multiple stacks of it. You must not be looking very hard.
Depends where you shop.
At my local coles/woolies i commonly (at least once a month) see the "people mass buying the baby formula to send to china". These people come in bands of probably 5 - 15 and walk away with trolleys full of it. A few times out of curiosity i have taken a look in the baby formula isle to find large sections of bare shelves. If i were after the formula i would definitely have issues buying it - maybe not all the time - but enough to be inconvenient. Note that i do live close to springvale in melbourne so that may play a factor in how often this happens around me.
Name and shame? For what? It's annoying for parents, but they aren't doing anything illegal.