Legal Strata Landlord help

PreSsieGuY on 04/01/2019 - 11:33
Last edited 07/01/2019 - 17:31

Hi Ozbargainers, i am in a pretty crappy situation with regards to my Strata Management group and was wondering if anyone could offer any advice.

About 3 weeks ago around 11pm, my tenants neighbor stupidly called the Strata Security on my tenants because they accidentally left the kitchen tap on and the pipes was making a screeching noise. They claimed it sounded like an alarm going on and it disrupted the neighboring units (alarm sounds completely different to rattling pipes). It is also the first we have heard or been reported about rattling pipes.

Security came out, knocked on the door of my tenants, couldn't do anything and left.

Now the Strata Management group is billing me for the Security call out because the sound came from my unit. My rental manager and myself feel that the neighbour who called security should foot the bill as they just called security even though they themselves could not reach the tenants (i also feel the neighbors are bulling my tenants and trying to get back at them but thats another story).

i have contacted Consumer protection, Landgate and Citizen advice bureau for some legal advice and no one seems to be able to help or it is quite confusing for a non legal person to understand. I have looked into my strata title and it doesnt mention anything about situation like these. i was told to speak to my unit council members, however i dont know who they are. Would anyone have any legal advice or advice on who i could speak to?

do you think i should pay this security bill? is it warranted? or should i stand my ground and not pay.

the bill itself is around 150 bucks so its not warranted to take it higher but i feel its the principal. i also have gotten a plumber out to address this issue too.

—Update—
one of the points made by the strata manager was that the invoice was billed to me as directed by the Council of Owners. does that mean i have to find who these people are and argue my case?

Poll Options

  • 49
    Neigbour who called Security should Pay
  • 5
    My Tenant Should Pay
  • 1
    My Self (Landlord) Should Pay
Financial

Comments

  • Ocker on 04/01/2019 - 11:45

    The "screeching" sound was most likely emanating from the tap washer and not rattling pips. Such sounds from the washer are relatively common, but normally only occur when the tap is opened at a certain point

  • bloom on 04/01/2019 - 11:52
    +5

    Fix the tap ASAP and ask them to prove it was your unit, checkmate.

  • toristo on 04/01/2019 - 11:54
    +1

    If you were the neighbour having the quiet comfort disturbed, would you feel like you should have to put up with it, or, as they've done, contact someone else and have them deal with as they're entitled to?

    Sorry OP, I don't see that the neighbour did anything wrong (though personally I would have at least tried knocking on their door myself first to be fair).

    Someone needs to pay for the call out - it's a reasonable request to pay for a guard after hours, and you wouldn't want to keep paying for a guard for other units if they had parties every week out of your strata fund I assume.

    Edit: quiet/quite

    • PreSsieGuY on 04/01/2019 - 12:06

      i totally understand. "Apparently" (cant be proven) they did go out and knock on the door, and my tenants didnt hear them.

      though i think calling security is a bit excessive. Security wouldnt have been able to access the property anyways. i can understand if it was a party or a loud domestic dispute, but not sure about a rattling tap.

      • Melb69 on 04/01/2019 - 12:18

        Were your tenants home. Is there a door bell. Might be worth putting one in for your tenant. Could have all be avoided if they were home and answered the door.

        • PreSsieGuY on 04/01/2019 - 12:25

          yep, my tenants was at home, just didnt hear anyone. i assume they thought the running tap wasnt coming from their kitchen.

          definately it would have been all avoided if they did answer the door. i dont know if the neighbors really did go and knock on my tenants door.

          • Mike88 on 05/01/2019 - 18:44

            @PreSsieGuY: Sounds like your tenants are stupid if they couldn’t work out noise was coming from within their apartment. Seems reasonable they would not hear a knock on the door also.

            • PreSsieGuY on 07/01/2019 - 15:34

              @Mike88: lol, yea my agent and i were wondering how did they not hear noise was coming from their apartment. it was very late in the evening, they could have passed out or something.

              not sure how long the taps sounds went on for.
              trying to get more info from my agent. :(

    • Melb69 on 04/01/2019 - 12:14
      +1

      I like this so if I hate my neighbour. I just keep calling up the security guards, so they foot the bill. Some common sense. There use to be a time when we use to know our neighbours. Which we actually do. If there was an issue we would knock on the door. Leave a note, or even have their mobile to call to let them know there's an issue. Call the police if there was actually a burgular on site. How did these neighbours even know there was body corporate security.

      So the called the security who couldn't do anything. The noise couldn't be stopped. In any event unless the neighbours could contact the tenant or owner the noise was always just going to keep going. Is there an afterhours number for the body corporate to call for assistance.

      • PreSsieGuY on 04/01/2019 - 12:28

        Is there an afterhours number for the body corporate to call for assistance.

        i dont think so, i think there is just a Sign with the company Security and their number around the complex.

    • HighAndDry on 07/01/2019 - 11:45

      If you were the neighbour having the quiet comfort disturbed

      Really? Calling security over a noisy tap? They couldn't walk over and knock on their door themselves? The neighbours sound like a bunch of w**kers.

  • SnoozeAndLose on 04/01/2019 - 11:55

    Call out fee of $150, if everyone keep calling then they will become millionaire

  • CyberMurning on 04/01/2019 - 11:58
    +8

    i came here expecting opal tower debacles…

    • Baysew on 04/01/2019 - 14:59

      …I heard what I thought was a cracking sound coming from neighbors unit. Didn't want to ring Strata Security because the owner went off crook last time over some screeching noises.

    • dcep on 04/01/2019 - 17:58

      Any updates ?

  • Melb69 on 04/01/2019 - 11:59
    +2

    Don't pay. If it wasn't an alarm or related to any security issue you shouldn't have to foot the bill. Can you write a letter to the security people stating your case. They should chase up with the neighbour. They made the call, so nothing to do with you. Hold tight. As you say an alarm is totally different from a noise from pipes. Seriously. Who are these neighbours. You also fixed the issue as soon as possible so you have already addressed the issue.

    Did the neighbour not knock on the door to see what it was.

    • PreSsieGuY on 04/01/2019 - 12:14
      +2

      the security just issues the call out fee. its really the strata managers who is sending the bill to me.

      we have stated to the strata managers im not going to be paying the bill for the reasons above. its ludicrous that anyone could willy nilly call security without thinking.

      • Melb69 on 04/01/2019 - 12:16

        Make sure you send a letter or email stating your full position and who you spoke to etc. For the record.

  • elgrande on 04/01/2019 - 12:08
    +1

    I would refuse to pay. Your neighbors were unreasonable to call security over the pipe noise.

    Seriously, what could security do if your neighbor knew the tenants were not opening the door?

    Typical 2019ers thinking the world should be peachy.

  • chumlee on 04/01/2019 - 12:09
    +1

    Tenant should pay

    • wordplay on 04/01/2019 - 12:21
      +2

      landlord alert

  • mbck on 04/01/2019 - 12:21
    +3

    call security out to your neighbour. so they'll have to pay 150 too

    But no you shouldn't have to pay, you've done no fault, there was no evidence of issues. Neighbour should pay.

    • Geoff-bargain on 05/01/2019 - 15:57

      Ha this is what I was thinking. You might have to call them out multiple times for them to get the message.

  • tsunamisurfer on 04/01/2019 - 12:21

    Refuse to pay.
    The strata or neighbour is going to have a hell of a time justifying water hammer sounding like an alarm.

  • trustnoone on 04/01/2019 - 12:23

    Sounds super dumb, why doesn't your tenant call out the security guard on their neighbor like 20 times and put them into a $3,000 dollar debt. I understand fineing you for a specific aspect (like if your tenants were being illegally loud) but I imagine security guards to be part of Strata payment.

    I'm not a lawyer but I guess it all depends on the agreement you signed, if it wasn't in there though I wouldn't pay, or at least not happily.

    • bargainhunter87 on 04/01/2019 - 12:36

      Don't do this. It will go to a question of reasonability and your tenant will be asked to pay the $3k debt.

      • trustnoone on 04/01/2019 - 12:56
        +1

        haha yeah apologies, I didn't mean you should actually do it, what I meant is that it sounds absurd to get other people to pay for it because there is a super obvious hole that can be taken advantage of so it doesn't make sense.

        Not that you should try to take advantage of it because likely it would back fire.

  • bargainhunter87 on 04/01/2019 - 12:42
    +1

    I personally would ask my other neighbours if they heard it. I can't imagine a tap being THAT noisy that someone would need to call security? Have you had a chance to talk to the security guard to see if they could hear something that was reasonably cause disturbance?

    If no one else could hear it or the sound was minimal - most likely its your neighbours trying to get back at the tenants, in which case I would withhold payment and write a letter.

    If the noise was actually disturbing, you are liable as the owner of the house but have a good case to make the tenant pay. I would cough up the $150 bill.

    • PreSsieGuY on 04/01/2019 - 12:58

      i am yet to call the security group. i have the report and still trying to gather my questions. not sure ill be able to speak to them regarding this incident. they probably wouldnt remember but i will give them a go

  • geech on 04/01/2019 - 12:45
    +3

    Imagine your neighbour wants to borrow a cup of sugar, but gets no response from knocking on your tenants door because they're asleep. If your neighbour then calls an ambulance because they assume your tenant is having a medical emergency, should you/your tenant foot the bill for the callout? Your neighbour sounds like a stiff

    • PreSsieGuY on 04/01/2019 - 13:02

      im thinking similar scenario if my tenants car was going off in the middle of the night, theyre asleep and couldnt hear it. it doesnt mean the neighbor should call security on my tenants car. Security wouldnt be able to stop the alarm in the car would they? doesnt make any sense

    • Melb69 on 04/01/2019 - 13:30

      The neighbours should have called the bikies if the door didn't answer. I'm sure if they came knocking on the door you would come to the door. Well at least get your shot gun ready before opening it to check.

  • Alwaysprofit on 04/01/2019 - 13:21

    I think your neighbour should pay the bill, otherwise any expense can be billed to you out of his reasoning. Get advise from lawyer, some legal centre offer free session. You can opt to bring this up to the next AGM and see what your neighbour think about the issue. Good luck.

  • thatonethere on 04/01/2019 - 13:32

    The pipe noise could have been water hammer - might be useful to identify whether it is strata pipes which are generating the noise or your internal pipes.

    The strata should have a list of fees documented for various scenarios (eg lost key, call outs etc).

  • Donaldhump on 04/01/2019 - 13:58

    tell your strata to stick up their a$$ and take it to court.

    or

    call the same security company back and tell them you think their are dangerous criminals inside their unit making noises when they are away, and return the favour.

  • fullmetal on 04/01/2019 - 14:08

    In my opinion, it should be strata should pay since it is kind of a strata responsibility to keep the environment livable. It is like if you call a police to address an issue, it is the tax payers who pay not the one who call or the culprit creating the problem.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 04/01/2019 - 14:59

    Pipes (or anything behind your paint on your wall) is actually common property so I doubt you/or your tenant should be liable.

    • PreSsieGuY on 04/01/2019 - 15:41

      i think the issue ended up coming from the taps. it sounded like pipes as what the security report said. i actually got the taps fixed about 6 months ago due to a leak and its the first ive heard of the taps rattling now.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/01/2019 - 16:31
    +4

    This is a pretty shitty shakedown. You need to ask the strata what standard practice is if someone calls security and it is a false alarm then the who pays.

    I would be calling security back on the unit that called security on you in the first place.

  • HeWhoKnows on 05/01/2019 - 08:10

    Firstly if there is an issue with the pipes it is a strata problem for them to fix.
    Secondly as you state it was not your tenants that called and they were not home hence why should you pay the bill.
    In the end you should write a letter to the committee via the manager saying you will take the matter to a tribunal for adjudication.
    Have you spoken to the strata manager?
    They are normally very reasonable

    • PreSsieGuY on 07/01/2019 - 10:11

      Have you spoken to the strata manager?

      its actually the strata manager whos being unreasonable on the matter.
      theyre adament that its the landlords fault (me) for having taps that caused the rattling sound.

      the tenants was home at the time but i think they must have not realised the rattling sound coming from the taps was caused by themselves.
      again i question, how legit was the noise when the tenant didnt notice and they were at home.

  • 82norm on 05/01/2019 - 09:25
    +1

    Hi,

    What state are you in?
    A. I would certainly not pay and stand my ground.
    B. Ask the body corporate if they have any bylaws and see if there is anything similar to the situation you’re in.
    C. Go to Dept. Of Fair Trading, seek advice, this should be a free service and they will offer meditation if required.

    You are right, in the sense, what would Security have done, except knock on the door. There is no definitive evidence the noise was originating from your apartment. Even if a running tap was left on, there is no law against that anyway.

    Pipes, electrical wiring behind walls are common property, so it should be managed under the body Corp.

    It sounds like it’s a fairly large building complex, so I am surpised there is no facility to call a 24/7 number to the body corporate and they then manage the situation from there (e.g, building manager, supervisor) to investigate first. Calling security sounds ridiculous and then expecting YOU to foot the bill is absurd.

    Stand your ground on principal, let us know how you go.

    • PreSsieGuY on 07/01/2019 - 10:20

      i am in WA.

      im definitely going to try and stand my ground, but just unsure what the implications would be if i continue to refuse.

      having troubles finding the body corporate members to discussed this but looking at my strata by laws, it doesnt look like theres anything on there regarding this situation or what the process is when calling security out.

      i did go to WA consumer protection to discuss this unfortunately they weren't able to assist. i will try department of fair trading today and see what they say.
      thanks

  • TransportPosters on 05/01/2019 - 11:50
    +1

    Maybe send the security company a nice bunch of flowers for New Year and ask for this bill to be waived?

  • bobbified on 05/01/2019 - 12:58

    I certainly wouldn't pay it.

    Firstly, it wasn't an urgent situation that warranted the calling of security;

    Secondly, a person leaving a tap on wouldn't reasonably expect that it would create such a screeching noise/disturbance; and

    Thirdly, if there are problems with the pipes in the wall, it is strata's responsibility to get that fixed and hence they would be responsible for that bill.

    Separate to the above, how does someone accidently leave a tap on? (Im assuming it wasn't just a dripping tap). The flow of water out of a tap has a very distinct sound and it's not exactly quiet either.

    • PreSsieGuY on 07/01/2019 - 10:24

      we are questioning that too.
      i can understand leaving a tap on but to leave it on and thus causing such a loud noise that its disrupting others? if it disrupts others, surely the tenant themselves would have heard it too.

      ive sent a plumber out straight away to address the issue. im very tempted (if they dont find anything wrong with the taps) to send the bill to the strata manager and tell them to pay it for false claims on rattling taps.

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