Council Bylaws and Jurisdiction on Beaches?

tunzafun001 on 14/01/2019 - 15:18

Let me start with, nothing like getting legal advice on OzBargain!

This is pretty much a 'first world issue', but just bought a new house in this area, and this has taken the wind out my sails…almost literally.

I've launched my vessel at our local beach for years, and now the council have started banning certain vessels from the beach ramp. Surf Life saving (right on the beach) say they are happy with everyone who launches there (including jetski's/ catamarans / kayaks / power boats/ sail boats), and not sure what the issue is. There has never been an incident at this beach. Also, no environmental issues on the beach as cars are still allowed. So clearly just a power play from some influential council member / person with vested interest in developing the area.

I just want to go out and get a few crabs, whiting and squid after work!

Just wondering if anyone can tell me where a local council's jurisdiction ends on a beach (below the water line at any given time of day? / lowest possible tide line? When you beach launch/ retrieve you unhook from the vehicle, and walk it down into the water for launching/ retrieving. I think this is out side councils bylaw jurisdiction anyway.

2nd - Who enforces the bylaws (council inspectors I guess, with Police not interested?. I know once in the water it becomes Marine and Harbours jurisdiction. Jetty jumping is also banned (i'm too old for that), but the council cant enforce it and the police have openly stated they wont be enforcing it either.

3rd - What obligations do councils have re signage. Is a simple sign with no launching or retrieving enough? or does the sign need to indicate which vessels, what act/ bylaw /authority is being enforced, maximum penalty etc etc?

Note - Plenty of people still launch here, crack a beer and walk their dogs (also banned on the sign).

Just want to know my rights if pulled up.

Cheers all

Financial

Comments

  • chumlee on 14/01/2019 - 15:23
    +2

    You are best off speaking with someone at council. You have provided very limited information

    • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 15:26
      +2

      While this does seem like a common sense suggestion, in this case council might not be in the best position to give unbiased advice.

  • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 15:25

    Very generally, local councils have jurisdiction on what you can do on the beach itself, and you'd lose if your only argument is that their jurisdiction ends at a high or low water mark, because it'd generally be interpreted to follow common sense. But you're in Adelaide (from your profile) and I honestly have no specialised knowledge about SA local government laws and regulations so it could be completely different there.

  • Stewardo on 14/01/2019 - 15:39

    I’d imagine if the ramp is man made it would be a council asset and be controlled by them.
    When somebody gets injured, guess who gets sued.
    That’s why we have all these seemingly petty rules, not because someone’s on a power trip, because it’s someones job to assess the potential risk. The surfers down at the SLSC probably don’t think like that. I’d give the council a call and ask them.

    • tunzafun001 on 14/01/2019 - 17:24

      All Boats are allowed to use the beach. Just not all allowed to launch. So not sure if it's risk based.

    • backpaqer on 15/01/2019 - 13:19

      This. I've seen many councils start to ban really insane little things (like 30m of pavement for cyclists where bike path runs through). Just so that if anyone gets hurt they can just point to the sign and say you did something illegal so not our problem. No enforcement until someone gets hurt.

  • QW3RTY on 14/01/2019 - 15:42

    There's an interactive map here which lists all boat ramps in the area.

    Just having a look around on the website, each council appears to have a management plan for the boat ramps under SA legislation. If the boat ramp is owned by the council and they've passed a resolution to discontinue its use, they should be able to provide this information.

    If it's possible, can you launch elsewhere in your area?

    • tunzafun001 on 14/01/2019 - 17:23
      +1

      I can, but it's a 40km round trip. Ramp is about 1km from home.

  • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2019 - 15:42
    +1

    Unless it's a protected beach and they are banning 2 stroke engines (because they do leave an oil trail), I don't see how they are legally able to enforce their arbitrary rules to exclude certain vessels.

    Councils are still subject to the law. They often think they are not and make bizarre rules and/or decisions.

    • tunzafun001 on 14/01/2019 - 17:23

      Cheers, 4 stroke so no issue there.

  • EightImmortals on 14/01/2019 - 15:44
    +2

    When you are dealing with crooked organisations like councils you need to play them at their own game, become more of a pain in their bum than they are in everyone else's (if that's possible). Start by sending a letter of complaint (a real paper letter via registered mail)and asking then under what legislation are they banning access from the beach, where were the prior notifications posted where the public could have objected. If they cite 'environmental issues' then demand that they send you a copy of the environmental impact statement conducted on that particular boat ramp. Don't be surprised if they try to hit you up for some kind of 'permit fee', that's how the scam usually works. They don't mind you doing things, they just want to to gouge money out of you. Don't bother with emails or phone calls, use real letters, registered post and if they ignore your letters then continue using the PUBLIC boat ramp and see what happens from there. How far you want to fight these crooks is up to you, most people don;t bother or give in to the lamest threats pretty quickly, and the council scum know it. :) So good luck and make sure to report back how you get on.

    • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 15:58

      I'm a little curious to see what your ideal/preferred form of government would look like. I'm not defending councils here by the way, they can definitely power-trip from time to time.

      • EightImmortals on 14/01/2019 - 16:24

        I have this funny little idea I like to call 'democracy', it's not the best idea in the world because I can't see why 51% of the population should get to force their will on the other 49% but at least it has the virtue of having never been tried, at least in this country. It could be implemented simply enough these days whereby people could propose their own initiatives to a government website and if they enough support then it pops up on an extra bit of paper at the election booth (or possibly as an online enterprise if they work out the security/privacy issues). The same mechanism can be used for when 'we the people' wish to direct the government to do/not something….like ban people from using boat ramps.

        Am I dreaming? Should I just stay bent over and take it?

        • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 16:36

          Are you suggesting a direct democracy? Eh. I think you far overestimate the general population, both in terms of intelligence and rationality.

          • EightImmortals on 14/01/2019 - 16:41

            @HighAndDry: Well I don't think anyone has ever accused me of that before. :)

            But it's either that or continue with the kakistocracy so I'd still go with my original idea if for no other reason than trying something new.

            • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 17:34
              +2

              @EightImmortals:

              A kakistocracy (/ˌkækɪsˈtɒkrəsi, -ˈstɒk-/) is a system of government which is run by the worst, least qualified, or most unscrupulous citizens.

              HAHAHA Nice.

              Eh, it's human nature. Any form of government relying on people, will end up being a popularity contest won by people best at faking it.

              I personally like the idea of a benevolent aristocracy. Sure, you'll have the occasional member of the ruling class using their power to set up sex dungeons, but it's not as if our current system is free from abuses or injustices. They just occur more from incompetence than malice.

              • Ozpit on 15/01/2019 - 12:18
                +1

                @HighAndDry: Nah, benevolent dictator is the way to go. Too much family in-fighting and power plays with aristocracies - benevolent or no. With a dictator it’s a clean nay or yay, such as, “Off with his head.” (if it’s for the benevolence of everyone else), or “Today, it’s cake for everyone.”

        • afoveht on 15/01/2019 - 00:47

          @EightImmortals: If you want to change it from the inside out then consider the Flux Party. I prefer changing it from the outside in.

          • EightImmortals on 15/01/2019 - 07:13

            @afoveht: Why not both? :)

            • afoveht on 15/01/2019 - 19:17

              @EightImmortals: I only found out about the Flux Party recently as I'm generally disinterested in today's statism and its politics, and do only what I have to so that I don't get too beaten up by them. When discussing this party with a few friends one said "What will the representative do with no clear direction? Will they just become a useless vessel in parliament?" IMO that was the ultimate argument FOR the Flux Party, to deligitimise the drek that's already in there.

              • EightImmortals on 15/01/2019 - 19:32

                @afoveht: Pretty much. Haven't had a chance to look them up but will try tomorrow and see what their policies are. :)

    • tunzafun001 on 14/01/2019 - 17:26

      OK, I'll give it a crack.

  • JimmyF on 14/01/2019 - 16:26

    Lots of waffle, but whats the issue? Whats this new bylaw that you're upset over?

    • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 16:35

      the council have started banning certain vessels from the beach ramp.

      • JimmyF on 14/01/2019 - 17:31

        the council have started banning certain vessels from the beach ramp.

        yes, which ones though? Like I said, lots of waffle and no real details of the issues.

    • tunzafun001 on 14/01/2019 - 17:29

      I can't actually find the bylaw documentation anywhere. Will contact council direct.

      Interestingly, Marine and Harbours told me if I'm in the water then there is no issue.

      So after I retrieve from in the water and I dont stop, there shouldn't be an issue.

      • JimmyF on 14/01/2019 - 17:32

        if I'm in the water then there is no issue.

        Again whats the issue…

        You haven't clearly stated your issue with the bylaws, just wild blanket statements.

        What are you wanting to do that the council bylaws are saying you can't

      • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 17:32

        I'm assuming your truck/trailer/car would be on-land during the process though.

        • tunzafun001 on 14/01/2019 - 17:38
          +1

          The council link to the pdf bylaw is corrupt! So only working off the no launch / retrieve sign. Car would be there. But trailer would be unattached.

          Now if I launched onto their sand,I'm breaching the bylaw. But I'm launching into water. They don't own that.

          Being cheeky.. But a bit over councils and their own personal agendas.

          • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 17:42

            @tunzafun001:

            But a bit over councils and their own personal agendas.

            Hahah I don't think I know anyone who isn't, to be quite honest. Good luck, let us know how it goes!

  • mskeggs on 14/01/2019 - 17:42

    Are you trying to launch a JetSki or jet boat or something people might object too as being inappropriate around the other beach users? I’m guessing yes because you are being really vague.
    Why not give the council a call and ask what has changed? It won’t prevent you from following other letter writing avenues etc.

    For all you know, they are reacting to a complaint from the SLSC that some boat users are being aggressive - which is why they had nothing to say to you directly. Start by trying to gather some information before being confrontational.

    • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 17:43

      I just want to go out and get a few crabs, whiting and squid after work!

      Pretty hard to do that from a jetski I'd say, though hey OP might be especially talented.

      • mskeggs on 14/01/2019 - 17:47

        I’m just trying to understand why they are being vague, and why the council might have changed the rules, the specifics of which are also unspoken.

        • HighAndDry on 14/01/2019 - 17:49

          OP or the council? Honestly Council might've just passed a blanket ban on launching boats from that beach because they got complaints about too many watercraft in the area. But per OP above:

          The council link to the pdf bylaw is corrupt!

          Guess we'll have to wait to see…

      • tunzafun001 on 14/01/2019 - 18:19
        +1

        Haha, You must be referring to the "stink machines" (see attached article), that most have no issue with. We launch a 4m boat and a mates 2 seater Jetski / PWC (rigged up for fishing - but I wouldn't call him talented!). Doesn't really matter as the Bylaw says 'boats'.

        Article:

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-13/jet-ski-etiquette-und…

    • tunzafun001 on 14/01/2019 - 18:12

      Yeah I tried to call, but just missed them after work. Will try again tomorrow. Just want to be 'armed' with the correct terminology.

      I spoke with the SLSC,they are happy for even Jetskis to be there. I just tried a different browser, and could open the link (which in true dodgy council style has the wrong council's title on the PDF, but they have changed the letterhead).

      Bylaw says a 'boat' (a raft, pontoon, jetski or any other personal water craft) must not launch from a beach. Followed by no bathing within 5m of a jetty, no fishing near people, no alcohol etc.

      • EightImmortals on 14/01/2019 - 19:15

        "I spoke with the SLSC,they are happy for even Jetskis to be there. I just tried a different browser, and could open the link (which in true dodgy council style has the wrong council's title on the PDF, but they have changed the letterhead)."

        Take screenshots and download as much incriminating evidence as you can.

        • tunzafun001 on 14/01/2019 - 22:22

          Yeah, hopefully doesn't come to that, but it's becoming that sort of world.

  • tunzafun001 on 15/01/2019 - 14:47

    Rang all councils and marine safety regulators. All "we'll get back to you"… zero replies.

    Here is the act for anyone with legal eyes.

    The way I read it I can only LAUNCH below the low tide mark (ie in the water), and retrieve any time as there is no reference for retrieval.

    Also Note worthy…

    Any loud annoying kids are in breach of the bylaw.
    Anyone fishing is in the breach of the bylaw.
    Anyone identifying, or transgender don't use the toilet.

    Again, sad this path has to be taken. I'm no public menace. Just like fresh squid and crabs!

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