Landlord Denies Window-Mounted Air Conditioner

[Deactivated] on 25/01/2019 - 17:30
Last edited 25/01/2019 - 21:16 by 1 other user

With the current soaring temps across the country, I've asked my agent if I could have a window mounted air-conditioner installed professionally into my sole-occupancy unit. Two of my neighbours have them, previously approved by the owner.

The response from the owner via the agent was actually a "no". Further, the owner tells me they don't approve of any portable units using water, and tell me to check with them before purchasing any portable unit.

So, aside from completely overstepping legally through trying to control any non-installed appliance, would this be grounds to break the lease early? It strikes me as a might unreasonable, borderline in breach of the agreement if they intend to try and enforce it.

Or, could I have installed (in a removable way) a window unit regardless with legal impunity?

I'm renting in NSW with the standard tenancy agreement. I'm certainly happy to move, because crazy landlords, but don't want it to be at my cost.

EDIT: ===================

There's a clause in the agreement stating:

"28. The landlord agrees not to unreasonably refuse permission for the installation of a fixture by the tenant or to a minor alteration, addition or renovation by the tenant"

Given two other units have been approved for the exact temporary modification, I can't see how the response is anything but "unreasonable". And given my request is for a removable change without anything permanent, I'm confident NCAT would find in my favor too.

As @HighAndDry pointed out though, that determination is up to NCAT to make. I cannot decide it's unreasonable and just go ahead anyway.

Ultimately though, I probably won't find out. Speaking to my neighbours who know the agent, I don't want the argument. I suspect it's easier to move and find a place with air conditioning provided. Most houses here do.

Home & Garden

Comments

        • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 08:59

          I have installed a window A/C.

          The A/C is not bolted to anything, it just sits on a flat surface.

          But to get a flat surface you will need to bolt something around the window to create a flat surface and it needs to be sturdy to carry the weight and cope with the vibration.

          If an A/C was small enough to just sit on a window sill it would probably do a lousy job at cooling anyway

          A portable A/C with temporary ducting is a much better solution, can be moved from room to room and setup in minutes. Doesn't need any permission from landlord since it is not fixed to anything.

    • lunchbox99 on 26/01/2019 - 23:33

      Exactly what I would do, just install it. If the landlord doesn't like it, they will terminate your lease so it's a win either way.

  • LUTSlit on 25/01/2019 - 23:30
    +2

    This is a total breach of all real estate laws. The real estate should find you a brand new luxury apartment with ducted air con immediately, at a reduced price rent for the inconvenience.

  • d39833 on 25/01/2019 - 23:36
    +1

    Just do it, landlords don't have much power anyways!

  • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 00:28
    +1

    1. A portable unit that uses water is not a good idea, since they work by evaporating water and increase humidity in your unit. The humidity increases the risk of mold developing in the less ventilated parts of the unit. They generally only work will in dry climates like Adelaide. If mold develops in the unit you might be up for large repair bills to fix the problem depending on how bad it gets.

    2. A window unit will involve minor modifications to the window and are not easily reversible, so i don't blame landlord refusing if they don't want to make those modifications especially since you want to remove it when you leave. They might reconsider if you offered to leave it when you leave.

    3. A portable air-conditioning unit would be your best choice. doesn't cause any mold and actually will prevent mold by de-humidifying the unit. Are more effective than evaporation water cooling. They don't need any modifications to the windows and usually come with a small plastic window kit and ducting that sits in the gap of a partially open window. I can't see anyone refusing this type of unit and feel that is why they asked to ask before purchasing so that they can confirm this is what you have chosen. So try your luck pick something like this and run it by them.

  • MessyG on 26/01/2019 - 08:05

    I don't see why you can't use a portable aircon like a Polacool that vents out a window and water collects inside the appliance itself. I used one in Sydney and never checked with my landlord as wasn't a fixed device. I loved mine - best thing is you can take it to the next rental. Just get one, they can't tell you not to use personal appliances.

  • dammit on 26/01/2019 - 08:22
    +1

    I have had the exact same issue as you. It was very stressful. I will write you a detailed reply.

  • Melb69 on 26/01/2019 - 08:22

    Your request is reasonable given the circumstances and past approvals with neighbours. At the end of the day you piss off the owner by say going to NCAT or whatever and the rent will just hike up. There are ones you can put through a window opening to get the hot air out. Just get one of those. If the agent or owner kick up a fight over it then fight it. Any reasonable moderator at a hearing will probably side with you given extreme weather conditions for health and safety. IMO

  • Micko179 on 26/01/2019 - 08:48
    +1

    Portable Air Conditioner = problem solved!

  • dammit on 26/01/2019 - 08:50

    Firstly - I feel for you having to go through this unnecessary stress. Nothing annoys me more than the fact tenants get treated like secondclass citizens yet helping landlords pay for their investment.

    I have rented, owned and been a landlord and the customer (AKA - tenant) in this case, needs to be treated right.

    That aside - I went through the exact same issue you are experiencing. I had a really arrogant agent, and an even more arrogant and selfish landlord. I was renting a 100 year old terrace in inner west Sydney. The place was double brick. No one wanted it and it stayed vacant for months as the owner wanted a greedy price. They dropped it maybe 35% and eventually I came along and applied/got it. I verbally mentioned to the agent if I want to do some minor refurbs (there was peeling wallpaper, walls crumbling etc) she was like yeah absolutely, this place needs any love it can get… Anyway lesson learnt, be specific and get every agreement detailed and in writing before signing.

    It was double brick and I thought it was hopefully going to be cool. Little did I realise the place was like an oven; no insulation qualities. Outside would be 30 degrees and inside 36. The heat would get trapped and no way out.

    It was christmas closure so I took matters in my own hands and bought a portable in window air con. I thought doing the right thing asking the agent/landlord for permission to drill 4 holes into the bricks to mount brackets and promised to make good/repaint/whatever is necessary. Weeks dragged on and the answer was flat out no. I begged for reasoning and was told that the landlord doesn't want you blocking the only window in the house (it was a middle terrace) with an air con as that will decrease natural light and make the property not as nice to live in as the front room got a lot of nice sunlight according to them. - WTF>> they aren't living in the property!?! What do they care about sunlight. Also the property being 100 years old was in a derelict state almost; so why do they care if I drill 4 holes.

    They wouldn't budge. I even said I would pay for the air con, give it to them when I leave for half the price, etc etc. Nothing. I rang Tenancy advice line trying to pursue grounds of the landlord not being able to unreasonably withhold consent for minor alterations and was told it is a grey area and probably 50/50 chance me going to the tribunal and winning. I threatend it to the agent/owner and was told go my hardest.

    In the end, I decided it was not worth the stress and effort fighting them in NCAT although I am confident I would win. I bought a 44 gallon drum second hand which was the perfect height to sit my air con unit on. I removed the front security screen from the window. Opened the window, drilled the air con bracket in place into the window sill and a bracket to secure the window. Agent knew I was 'temporarily installing it' - she just wanted me out of her hair and said as long as I am not altering anything she will turn a blind eye. Little did she know I drilled a few holes (and left them there when I moved out - ha).

    Unfortunately no photo of the end install that I can find but here is a photo of the drum and where it went.

    https://i.imgur.com/MnbDpTy.png sorry - small photo

    By the way - they can't object or stop you from installing a portable air con unit, incl one with water. but to be honest they are rubbish so i wouldn't bother.

    • Micko179 on 26/01/2019 - 08:59
      +3

      A unit that uses water is an Evaporative Cooler NOT a Portable Air con!

    • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 09:20

      Thank you for your response and advice.

      I'm still considering next steps, but it will likely be to just move.

      I'm actually considering, if I do decide to move, I'll allow the owner and agent to improve my case with NCAT, through asking to use a portable unit that "uses" water, to which they'll say no, further exercising unreasonable and overstepped control. From there, they'll have bucklees chance of holding me to the lease.

      • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 09:57

        Your taking a chance because Evaporative Coolers ("uses water") are known to cause building damage through mold and don't actually cool anything, they should be called saunas.

        Edit

        Evaporative Coolers have their place in dry hot climates for example Alice Springs (notice the low humidity)
        Forecast for Alice Springs
        Sat
        26 Jan
        Mostly sunny 27°C 41°C
        Humidity: 9am: 26% 3pm: 15%

        Not so Good in places like Sydney ( notice the high humidity)
        Forecast for Sydney
        Sat
        26 Jan
        Sunny 24°C 33°C
        Humidity: 9am: 66% 3pm: 61%

        • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 10:29
          -1

          I wasn't referring to an evaporative cooler. Just a refrigeration cooler which uses collected water to cool the unit. Hence the air quotes around "uses". It would also just be a question, to get a response. I wouldn't actually purchase a portable unit if I decide to vacate.

          EDIT: The agent / owner are not being reasonable about portable units. I may choose to use that to my advantage.

          • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 10:40

            @[Deactivated]: Your mistaken,
            The collected water is not used (you don't fill it with water) it is a result of condensation and is drained/disposed by you on a regular basis.

            The landlord clearly did not mean NO you can use this type of portable air conditioning.

            The landlord will obviously approve this type of portable A/C.

            The landlord was simply been cautious by asking you which make and model of portable A/C you are going to use because many people do confuse portable evaporative coolers with portable air-conditioners.

            If all you want is a portable A/C go pick out your favourite and use it without asking you are safe no one can do anything about it. If you feel like notifying the landlord to keep them satisfied that is up to you,

            • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 11:08
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: Some units actually do use the condensed water to help cool the compressor. It actually makes them more efficient. DeLonghi units actually do this, and would probably be my choice if I were considering a portable unit.

              Regardless of approval for such a portable unit, I've a problem of privacy due to the built in blinds. To install the window exhaust panel, I would have to un-clip the blinds and open them some way. The current blinds were installed by the owner in order to give privacy, as opposite these windows are another set of units. Hence opening those curtains allows a straight view into my bedroom, removing my privacy. I could ask to install a curtain rod with brackets, but that necessitates making modifications to the unit, which they would likely reject.

              The owner still has no right to limit my choice, even if I wanted an evaporative unit.

      • maximum on 26/01/2019 - 20:23

        I think you will find that NCAT may make an order to allow you to use the portable unit which you choose to purchase (the type which you email them about) , not necessarily just allow you to vacate the lease because they denied you permission in the first place.I have found NCAT in NSW try to act on a more educational/ negotiation based system than a straight out you're right they're wrong position.

        • dammit on 26/01/2019 - 20:56

          Yes ncat won’t be terminating the lease at your request. If there is a breach by landlord eg not being reasonable with a minor alteration (if ncat defines it as this); they will simply order to allow it. You won’t be allowed to end the lease early. Are you fixed term?

          • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 21:35

            @dammit: Hmm, you may be right. According to choice website, some states allow you to request termination after one breach, while others need a few breaches. In my case, it's probably not severe enough'

            Yes, I'm fixed term.

            If I can't get out the lease, I'll just wait till it expires :(.

            I can't wait to buy.

    • simonjb on 28/01/2019 - 06:01

      "Drilled holes and left them there. Ha." Exactly why landlords say no to peasants.

      • simonjb on 28/01/2019 - 06:08

        'tenants'

  • terrys on 26/01/2019 - 11:47

    " they don't approve of any portable units using water, and tell me to check with them "

    The generic name for those is "furniture" and they don't get a say…

    • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 11:53

      Agreed :)

  • DarkOz on 26/01/2019 - 11:57

    1. Landlord can deny the installation of a new air conditioning unit provided the lease agreement did not state that you could.

    2. Landlord can not deny the use of a portable air conditioning unit provided this is actually a portable air conditioning unit. The landlord could be worried that you are going to use the window mounted air conditioning unit portabaly.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 12:07

      Landlord can not deny the use of a portable air conditioning unit provided this is actually a portable air conditioning unit. The landlord could be worried that you are going to use the window mounted air conditioning unit portabaly.

      Maybe, but that seems like a stretch. I'm not even sure how that would be done. I did tell them that I hadn't purchased anything.

      • DarkOz on 26/01/2019 - 12:36

        If you are going to use a real portable air conditioner you don't even have to tell your landlord let alone asking for permission.

  • Ronthecrypto on 26/01/2019 - 14:14

    why wouldn't you go for portable units. you can get good one around $500 brand new. once you leave this property, take it with you.
    I did the same when I was in shared/ rental accommodation.

  • Ricciardo on 26/01/2019 - 14:34

    This is really common for rentals.

    Older rental houses don't have air-con due to the cost of installation and repair if it fails. Tenants dont want to be uncomfortable so they mount window units within the existing window using plywood and brackets from Bunnings. Normally they dont worry about asking the real-estate seeing as its not a permanent fixture. I have even seen tenants install a split system into a window in this manner.

    Dishwashers, garden sheds, above ground pools and water tanks & fire-pits are other items that I have heard of tenants "installing" without seeking permission. For a dishwasher for example you can get units that are on castors that you attach to the kitchen sink outlet, do the wash and then can wheel it back under a bench.

    Usually as long as everything is put back the way it was when a tenant leaves its ok otherwise it gets left behind. The stupidest thing I heard a real estate asked for is for a wall repair to be painted. The wall had a hole in it when the tenant moved in that was on the entry report and the tenant was kind enough to patch it but not paint it. The tenant offered to remove the patch to create a hole again as part of the exit and instead the agent then agreed to instead offer the tenant some money off the rent in exchange for finishing the job painting it. In fairness agents dont get paid a huge amount and with high turnover often dont have the time to check on all these things so just assume the tenant is always at fault. Often behind the scenes it may be an unrealistic land-lord that's pulling the strings.

  • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 16:09

    Just been wondering throughout this thread. If you were a landlord who had a good renter… takes care of the place/pays rent on time, been there say 5+ years… mightn't it be a good business to just have a system installed? Adds value to the place and improves the potential retention of said good renter…

  • eggles01 on 26/01/2019 - 17:03

    ————CONTACT YOUR NSW TENANT UNION THAT IS WHY THEY ARE THERE TO HELP TENANTS IN THEIR TENANCY————
    THEIR PHONE NUMBER IS IN THE PHONE BOOK OR YOU CAN FIND THEM BY SEARCHING VIA GOOGLE ETC

    • John Kimble on 26/01/2019 - 17:04

      Why are you yelling?

      • eggles01 on 26/01/2019 - 17:07
        -7

        BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT THEY HAVE THEIR OWN BRAIN AND NEED YELLING AT TO WAKE THEM TO REAL LIFE

  • john_conner on 26/01/2019 - 17:12
    -1

    Hi. Sorry I haven’t had time to read all the replies.

    Some points to consider:
    1. You will need to screw the wall mount unit into the window sill. If you take the unit with you, landlord is going to be left with holes (unless you patch them).
    2. You will need a dedicated circuit for your wall mount air con. This will leave an extra power point in an odd spot for the landlord. Guess this is a good thing if they want to install one down the track.

    The additional install costs for a wall mount might make the portable air con unit more attractive for you. I would probably just buy a portable AC which your landlord would be ok with (they make water, not consume water).

    Good luck.

    • dammit on 26/01/2019 - 20:55
      +1

      If under approx 3.5kW it will be 10amps and can use the existing GPO PowerPoint.

      • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 21:37

        Question, does that "kilowatt" measurement indicate power consumption? As in, does a 3.5kW unit use 3.5kW of power per hour?

        • [Deactivated] on 27/01/2019 - 00:43

          No

          It represents cooling capacity, how much heat the A/C can pump out of the room. So yeah A/C are efficient in that they can pump out a lot more heat than power they consume, usually 3 to 1

      • john_conner on 27/01/2019 - 23:12

        “The power cord must be connected to an independent circuit. The yellow/green wire must be grounded.“

        https://www.appliancesonline.com.au/manuals/KWH15CME/2001201…

        Kelvinator KWH15CME 1.6kW Cooling Only Window Box Air Conditioner.

        Best consult the manual prior to install. Independent circuit is the best and safest option for a number of reasons.

  • ozboygsl on 26/01/2019 - 17:13

    re objecting to a portable unit. you can tell the pos 2 words { 1 begins with "f" and the other fines with it}, ignore the turd and buy 1. theres nothing it can do.

  • echelon6 on 26/01/2019 - 21:47

    u can use a portable one, its like a fridge or microwave or toaster - landlord can't do shit about what appliances you have.

    if u want something more permanent, eg a split system or one of those permanent window ones, why would he say yes without you offering something of value in return? people these days. Offer $ or more rent.

  • mezje on 27/01/2019 - 10:48

    You could try offer a rent increase to cover the cost of a an AC over 24 months?

    Sounds like they are being unreasonable and probably weren't impressed you said you were taking it with you as that will leave a huge hole and is frankly just a ridiculous thing to say.

    Failing that nothing stopping you getting a portable, window vented AC. Many use water but it is to cool the internals and motor. They absolutely cannot say no to you getting one of these. I was always skeptic but was given one for free from a relative (10 years old) and it works quite well for one room.

  • karkashian on 27/01/2019 - 14:58

    simply email:

    Thank you for your response. Now there are actually some maintenance issues, some that will need to be rectified ASAP.

    they include:

    • gas leak
    • water leak
    • water pressure issue
    • windows that don't open
    • power tripping on power points
    • phone line continually cuts out
    • door lock faulty
    • toilet running
    • drains block constantly
    • leaking shower
    • heater doesn't work
    • areal point is not working

    Would you like me to put in formal maintenance requests?

    • [Deactivated] on 27/01/2019 - 16:51

      That's ironically not far from the truth :).

  • Cadal on 28/01/2019 - 03:15

    This may have been said already, however it is quite posible that if this is a shared single house that the existing appliances mean that additional high electricity usage appliances would requite a power board upgrade (the thing on the side of a house/structure). These tend to be quite expensive. There's usually a reason for a no, if this is the case that may also be the reason for the portable concern too.
    Good luck with your negotiation.

  • trapper on 05/02/2019 - 13:10

    You're not expecting the landlord to pay for anything right? So just install it anyway, what are they going to do.

    When inspection time comes either cover it up it or remove it temporarily.

    If you get caught whats the worst that can happen.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join