How to Recover $22,000 after Mistaken Internet Payments?

Before we start, this is not an internet scam thing, money was not sent to Nigerian Prince, it was just transferred to a wrong person, 11 times!

My friend has set up a periodic bank transfer to pay an employee $2000 weekly last year. However, he unwittingly chose a payee details from previous payee list due to similarity of the names. This error was only discovered after 11 transfers had been made to the wrong person. Sounds unbelievable but it's true. The total of $22,000 has gone to the wrong recipient.

It seems lot of people doubt that how come there were 11 transfers before the error has been discovered. On their behalf, I have contacted my friend to make the story straight.

It's a husband and wife restaurant business, normally wife is in charge of setting up of payroll and make payment. Husband asked wife to setup a transfer to pay the employee. When the employee notice the payment didn't come, he contacted the husband, then husband couldn't see the payment to the correct person, so he paid him through another fund. He forgot to check with his wife on this matter.

The wrong recipient was paid once on 2016, so his bank detail is on the payee list.

That's why it was only discovered after 11 transfers.

The money was sent from Bank S to Bank A, which was wrong recipient's bank. He has contacted his own Bank S, told them the mistake and asked them to recover the money on his behalf. After a while, Bank S sent 11 letters to him, all but said one thing, Recover is Unsuccessful, End of Message.

He has contacted Bank S again, they told him they couldn't help him anymore, he should contact the person who wrongly received his money directly. Is this a correct advice?

He only has the person's name and bank detail, no address though. When he tried to contact Bank A, they told him they couldn't help him due to privacy laws. Fair enough.

Here are some options I can think of:

1) ask a lawyer to send a letter of demand to Bank A, demand Bank A to freeze the fund and return to my friend.
This is base on the Fact Sheet - Mistaken internet payments from Financial Ombudsman Service.
"Between 10 business days and 7 months: the recipient's bank will freeze the funds.
The recipient will then have 10 business days to show they are entitled to the funds. If
they do not, the funds will be returned to you. "

2) report to Police, it should be equivalent to the case that you drop your wallet, someone picked it up but unwilling to return it back to you. right?

3) engage professional service, e.g. private investigator, debt collector, even bikies? the dilemma is that the amount of the lost money may not be quite substantial to cover the cost in the end, so is it a worthwhile option?

Can any fellow OzBargainer come up a recourse to recoup the money? Or the money is lost forever due to bank unwilling to assist anymore.

Thanks in advance

TLDR: $22000 was sent to wrong person due to genuine mistake, not due to scam, how to get it back

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Comments

            • +1

              @trapper: Any loss can be tax deductible, even if the owner is incompetent, and lost money due to their own failure to prevent errors due to negligence, talk to an accountant and stop talking out of your ass.

  • If the bank transfers money to your account wrongly and you spend it they come after you in court/sue you and do everything to get the money. If you accidentally transfer money to the wrong account bank goes meh sorry can't help.

    • +4

      Of course.

      Bank makes mistake - bank goes after money.

      OP makes mistake - OP should go after the money.

      • Yeah that is true, but it would at least be nice for the bank to offer some service of sorts (even at a cost) that would be similar to what they do. No one really knows how to go about it like banks do.

  • +6

    Make a $1 transfer and add a description to call back

    • This might be worth a shot. If my previous employer identifies that they've been sending money to me by mistake, I'd return it.

    • This is really good advice

    • -1

      Or just to see if the account is still active.

  • -1

    F in the chat

  • +4

    Lawyer up. That's all they can do. Get letters sent to the banks and the person who received the money. It'll only be expensive if it goes to court, and I don't see how it could considering the receiver has no claim to the money at all. If it did, that would be the time to decide if it's worth it, and I mean this genuinely, call in the bikies.

  • +2
    1. Figure out who the person is.

    2. Ask for money back. (try and get some confirmation from them that it wasn't deserved, for use in step 4)

    3. Offer a 'finders fee' if they give money back.

    4. Court. You have plenty of evidence that the money was accidentally transferred to the wrong account.

    • Don't know this person or haven't had any interaction with this person for a long time.
    • Never owed this person $22k and there is no documentation they could produce to contradict this.
    • Know some other person with similar name that you do owe $22k and can produce documentation to confirm.
    • Thanks for the advice.

      As I have already explained above, after I confirmed with my friend. His wife set up the transfer to new employee, but she got the wrong payee. The rightful intended recipient didn't receive the money, asked my friend, he checked there was no payment to new employee, setup new payment to him. He forgot to check with his wife, until 11 weeks later.

      • +1

        What kind of a restaurant worker make $2000 a week? I would like to know.

        • The coke dealer.

        • +1

          Bikie protection guy?

        • midnight restaurant

        • Not saying that this is what's happening here, but employees who pay for a job in order to get a Visa generally get very inflated incomes…

  • +3

    I can see how this could happen if not paying close attention, and then setting it up as a recurring payment. Set & forget.
    I'd be interested to know when the correct receiver let your friend know - no funds received ? Was this at the 11 week point ?

    So, as suggested above - send a series of $1 payments to the account and put something in the description like:
    TWENTY TWO
    THOUSAND
    DOLLARS
    DEPOSITED
    INTO
    THIS
    ACCOUNT
    BY
    MISTAKE
    PLEASE
    RETURN
    IT
    SEE
    YOUR
    BANK
    MANAGER
    URGENTLY

    • Don't make it too obvious you can't find this person's information

      • +5

        Maybe better luck with below,

        I don’t know who you are. I don’t know what you want. If you are looking for free money, I can tell you I don’t have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you return my money now, that’ll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don’t, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will…

        Maybe he'll deposit back 2 cents with,

        GOOD
        LUCK

        • haha send a fee 1c transactions with the above.

  • +7

    OP, you've said "He didn't divulge, I didn't ask." several times. I can distinctly see there is something missing from this story. How does your friend intend to get specific advice without providing all the facts?

    Bank account details don't just appear in his/her internet banking. He/she has obtained them from somewhere. He/she would recall or have the email/sms/letter/recall the conversation with a specific person, providing those details. They would also have records of what previous payments they sent that person which surely would prompt a recollection of who they are.

    The fact that he/she is in the "restaurant" business and makes regular large bank payments without corresponding invoices or records is evidence enough.

    Don't waste our time.

    • This information has been supplied in the thread before your comment.

      The wrong recipient was paid once on 2016, so his bank detail is on the payee list.

      • -2

        Did you even read my post?

        • Did you even read their post?

          All the information you ask for has not only already been provided, but is ultimately completely irrelevant to the question of how to get it back.

          • -1

            @callum9999: I repeat, you do not just add someone to a business banking internet payee list without some form of corroborating invoice, email, text, phone call.

            OP's friend claims they "don't remember", OP has NOT said whether they have conducted searches to identify why that original payment or payee was initially conducted. You don't just speak to some rando who does a one off for a business and then pay them via BSB/Account number without some form of communication. The amount of the original payment would be highly relevant in identifying whether it was a casual who did a trial shift, a tradie who performed work etc.

            Again I repeat OP's repeated post

            He didn't say whether it is a salary or supplier payment or some other arrangements.

            He didn't divulge, I didn't ask.

            If you want help you need to ask. Your friend is going to the effort of visiting 3x law firms, police, calling government authorites, but won't divulge this?

            I would have thought identifying the payee, from the original transaction details KNOWN to OP's friend, would have been highly relevant to getting the money back.

            • @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: The original post has been updated two days ago. All your questions have been answered.

  • dayum man that sucks…i always wonder if it's the internet company's fault for not chasing you..I mean that's 11 months of payments..

    ..gluck man

    • +1

      Internet company???

      • Username checks out

  • +1

    This spells it out clearly

    What if I transfer money to the wrong account?
    If you have made a mistaken internet payment, you need to contact your bank or credit
    union immediately. Your bank or credit union will then contact the unintended recipient's
    bank to try and get the money back.
    If the money is still in the other person's bank account and it is a genuine mistake
    (because the account name and number do not match), then the process for recovering
    the money depends on how quickly you have reported the mistake to your bank. If you
    report the mistake:
    Within 10 business days: the funds will be returned to you.
    Between 10 business days and 7 months: the recipient's bank will freeze the funds.
    The recipient will then have 10 business days to show they are entitled to the funds. If
    they do not, the funds will be returned to you.
    After 7 months: the funds will only be returned if the other person agrees.
    If the money is not in the other person's account when the receiving bank is notified,
    then the receiving bank must make a reasonable attempt to get the money back. For
    example, by negotiating with the unintended recipient to repay the funds.
    If your bank or credit union does not help you to fix the mistaken internet payment, you
    can lodge a dispute with the Financial Ombudsman Service Australia

    What if money is incorrectly transferred into my account?
    If money is incorrectly transferred into your account, you should notify your bank. Your
    bank will then try to return the money to the sender.
    You should not spend or withdraw the money transferred into your account by mistake
    because it is not legally yours and you have to pay it back.

    Looks like the FOS is the last resort
    The receiver should not be spending money that isn't legally theirs. Banks make mistakes all the time and you don't get to keep the money

    • +1

      Unfortunately, as mentioned before, this code does not apply to businesses.

      "… genuine mistake (because the account name and number do not match), …"

      This case does not count as a genuine mistake as the account name and the number matches. Further on the ePayments code it clearly defines what they count as a mistaken payment, which is not this scenario either.

      Maybe this is a civil court matter rather than FOS?

  • Oh no, thats a big money (for me) tbh I dont know what to feel if i was the recepient

  • +2

    Your friend will most likely have to go through FOS to get anything done.

    Friends bank will have submitted a MIP (Mistaken Internet Transfer) for each transaction, in which the other bank has a certain amount of time to respond (normally 30 days).

    In this time, the bank that received the money technically cannot hold the funds or block the persons account. They send a letter to the person who owns the account saying money has been transferred to you that may not necessarily be yours, and can either have a form to fill out inside (almost like a Stat Dec) or it will ask them to present to their local branch.

    If they choose not to answer, other bank will just say funds are unable to be retrieved.

    FOS will open a case against your friends bank and ask for it to be investigated further, in which they will most likely pull their finger out and do a lot more to retrieve the funds.

    Has your friend tried threatening their bank with FOS getting involved? Banks listen a lot more when you mention ombudsman because they pay a fee for any case opened and its not cheap (in the thousands I believe) so if they can sort before it gets to that they normally will.

    • When I worked for a bank, it was only somewhere between $25 to $50 (I forget) initially for any FOS case opened (in relation to credit cards at least). It got more and more the longer it stayed open or the higher it escalated (which does get into the thousands).

    • Thanks for the sound advice.

      That's what I think bank probably just did what you said, that's what I mean they probably didn't do enough.

      What most frustrate thing is that the letter that informs you that recover was unsuccessful, it does not tell you what's the reason for the unsuccessful recover, i.e. it's lack of fund, closure of account, or simply no response from the client.

      So I would make suggestion to my friend to make $1 transaction to see if the account is still active.

      • -1

        i.e. it's lack of fund, closure of account, or simply no response from the client.

        Of course - that's private information belonging to the account owner. The bank would be breaching a dozen regulations if they disclosed those kinds of information to third parties.

      • +1

        No problems! :)

        Yeah its vague due to not being able to disclose information of that customers account unfortunately.

        We actually had a similar issue at a branch I worked at. Customer had a manager that was meant to direct incoming rental payments to the customers account. Because it was going to a savings account they weren't monitoring their customer didn't notice for 2 years that no payments had been made to the account.

        When confronted they realized they had missed a number.

        It was a nightmare, but I believe it was sorted at the end of the day. Just not an easy process and they had a Relationship Manager that got involved which means they were committed to sorting as soon as possible for customer.

        Check with friend to see if they have a Relationship Manager, otherwise your "RM" is a Local Bank Manager. Ask to speak to them and tell them you aren't happy with the way things have gone so far. Be nice to them of course, don't blame them for anything but just say its a considerable amount and needs to be sorted as soon as possible.

        • Good advice. However, my friend said Bank S (his own bank) has made it clear they don't want to be involved anymore.

          I guess file a complaint to the newly established Australian Financial Complaints Authority (replacement of FOS) will be his last shot.

          It seems the AFCA can help even it's a business transaction account, unlike FOS.

          https://www.afca.org.au/make-a-complaint/banking/banking-dep…

  • +2

    Poor guy who received an extra $22k, now he has to declare that as extra income and pay more tax…he should report your friend back!

  • Yeah you ain't getting the money back unless the person who has the money gives it back voluntarily which is on them.

    I lost $340 to a gumtree ipad pro scam and I still have not gotten that money back and I have all the scammers details and etc and given all the information the police but basically I just handed money over to someone over word of mouth.. I have no say I flucked up and now pay the consequences.. lesson learnt though I needed it to be so trustworthy and gambly online in my buying selling adventures.

    Bank cannot do nothing.. police will probably do nothing unless you have a legal document or contract saying something it was a mistake which I have no idea how that would work so basically you gave $22,000 away to somebody.

    Maybe ask to get back half and minimize your losses.

    Asking for it all back would be a hard thing to do imho.

    • +1

      bikies

      • What's the going bikie rate these days have not used them in awhile :p

    • -3

      Thanks for sharing your story. I didn't neg you though, I remove one neg for you.

  • +1

    Search for him on social platforms. Google his name; try whitepages, yellow pages. Maybe you can find more info out by yourself. If you get an address or a workplace then send a letter of demand.

    • BSB number points to Canberra branch, however, my friend couldn't remember who he is after only once payment in 2016.

      Only if he could remember the person more, his would have more options.

      • I thought you had his name?

  • Are your friends still married?

    • Last check, he is still married :-)

      • probably unhappily at the moment :)

  • Just consider it a mistake and sip in

  • +2

    Can your friend check a statement from 2016 to identify the unintended payee using the reference?

    • He only know him by name, as he couldn't remember why he had to pay him, for what…

      • +3

        So, in other words, a transaction made to someone without parallel accounting records? Just a cash payment? From a business account? Bloody deserves to lose the money in that case, all of this sounds pretty dodgy to me. Must be doing well to allow 20k to disappear without really worrying about it.

      • Wait, so he knows the name after all that?

  • Didn't your friend have a bookkeeper for his business?

    The mistake should have been picked up by his bookkeeper.

    • Probably the wife…

      • True.

    • -1

      Yup. $22,000 could've paid for a lot of bookkeeping.

  • Edit: removed and unrelated

  • So the employee saw he wasn’t being paid and contacted the husband, who checked and saw no payment to the employee and paid the employee himself. What did the husband check exactly that he missed multiple $2000 payments over several months?

    • I guess some people doesn't reconcile their book every month.

      • Running a business would keep you very busy. Yes I know I'll stop.

  • +2

    Some people have said that no crime has been committed, however I am sure I have read instances when this was classified as a type of "theft by finding". If so the police should be contacted to see if this is a crime.

  • Correct me if I am wrong. My impression has been like if there is unexpected money showed up in your account, you're not allowed to take it or you offended some law?

    • You certainly break the law, but it seems nobody is interested to enforce it except the person who lost it.

      Even when bank makes a mistake deposit money into unintended recipient, they will probably let it loose after they consider it would take too much effort
      to get it back. Of course, how many zeros behind that figure will be weighed in their decision.

    • Police has no interest in taking the case, cited it's a civil matter.

      My friend has just been back from police station.

      Now all we can pray and wish mysterious money appear on our accounts.

    • -2

      Not necessarily. It's very fact dependent and depends on a lot of subjective factors.

      • What do you mean? Multiple sources online align with my understanding that it is illegal to take and use the unexpected money appeared in your account.

        • -2

          Look, I can find multiple sources online saying the earth is flat. Basically - it depends on if the recipient knows or reasonably should know that it isn't there money. If they can argue they had reason to think it was actually their money (for example an investment account with tens of thousands in transactions each day), there'd be zero legal liability.

          If OP can prove that the money is theirs, then the recipient would still have to return it, but that's not a matter of legal vs illegal.

          • @HighAndDry: This doesn't help the OP by saying it can be both. So given that there is chance that this can be illegal, who is the authority that should enforce this here?

            • @justwii:

              This doesn't help the OP by saying it can be both.

              I'm sorry that reality isn't on OP's side. The law is rarely black and white, because facts are rarely black and white.

              So given that there is chance that this can be illegal, who is the authority that should enforce this here?

              About a billion things can be illegal. You see a coworker putting white powder into their tea it could be illegal - if the powder was cocaine - or it could be an anti-flu supplement. Something illegal could have happened here, but without knowing more there's zero indication that anything illegal did.

              And "Authority"? Why are people always so quick to try and run to an authority figure to save them? There's no authority here, because OP f***ed up. It's like if OP set a pile of notes worth $20,000 on fire. There's no "authority" whose job it is to help OP fix his mistakes.

              • +3

                @HighAndDry: What is it with you and your moronic analogies? People don't put cocaine in tea, it's not reasonable to assume that the white powder is therefore cocaine. You're not seriously claiming that assuming someone should probably notice an extra $22000 in their account is the same as assuming white powder being added to tea is cocaine are you?

                Oh, yet another one. The money still exists so no, it's not REMOTELY like setting it on fire. Just stop - you're clearly incapable of creating a coherent metaphor!

                Because authorities have powers that we do not have. Why that is news to you is beyond me?

                • @callum9999:

                  You're not seriously claiming that assuming someone should probably notice an extra $22000 in their account is the same as assuming white powder being added to tea is cocaine are you?

                  No, I'm saying that when it comes to allegations of crimes, you shouldn't be using assumptions at all. What about THAT is so hard to understand?

        • +1

          It is not illegal to take and use unexpected money in your account. Even the code of payment said it, if someone doesn't realise they make a mistake after 7 months the it is up to you to agree to give it back or not.

          It is illegal to not give it back if you have been inform that the money was transfer by mistake and refuse to give it back when ask within a reasonable period.

          In this case we don't know the inner dealing of the bank, no one know what happen to the money nor the communication between the banks and the receiver. If the receiver already take money out of that account and the bank just try to recover fund without any communication with the receiver, the end result will be a unsuccessful recovery message.

          It is not illegal to transfer the fund or even use it, you just have to give it back when ask. You are under no obligation to even find the people who transfer it to you. It is morally right to do so but you didn't make any mistake, they did.

          In this case, the OP friend make a mistake but want other to do the work for him to recover the money for free, it doesn't happen. The OP need to get legal aid from a professional and try to recover the money at his own expense.

          Who know, what if the receiver is some naive guy and were expecting $2000 a week for helping some Nigerian prince and believe the money was rightfully his. Is he committing a crime now for spend money he thought was his?

          I know the story above is kind of stupid and hard to believe but it is as believable as the OP "friend" setting up a weekly payment of exactly $2000 for a small restaurant employee. The world is strange and thing happen, coincident exist.

  • +2

    If your friend has reached a dead end with their bank, then they should contact the Australian Financial Complaints Authority (which has replaced the Financial Ombudsman Service/Credit and Investments Ombudsman) for advice and assistance.

    The AFCA handles complaints from individuals and small biz (up to 100 employees) and they deal with complaints re: mistaken internet payments.

    If the AFCA cannot take on the case, they'll refer your friend to an appropriate organisation (eg. a community legal centre/law firm).

    • +1

      Thanks for the sound advice. It will be my friend's last shot though, unless he can find out the address that guy lives, he would have more options.

  • -4

    Have you asked the person who got the $22K to send it back?

    • +1

      Ever so useful

    • How do you get through life being this oblivious?

  • OP. Sorry to hear. $22,000 is a lot of money.

    I can only think of the following.

    1. Usually when you paid someone you would need bank account bsb, account number, and account name. Perhaps the account name would ring a bell but if not engage a lawyer or private investigator to find out the identity of the receiver and then sue civilly.

    Car Park operator somehow is able to find out details of drivers through court channel and I am thinking thats one avenue I can think of.

    Even if it costs at least you may get some money back. OR

    1. Consult FOS or its replacement and suggest point 1 above if it is feasible. It really is theft and I simply dont understand why police doesnt see it as such.
    • Thanks.

      Police and Lawyers don't want to help.

      How often you see Police solve a burglary case?

  • +1

    edited:

    https://www.fos.org.au/custom/files/docs/fact-sheet-mistaken…

    "If the money is not in the other person's account when the receiving bank is notified, then the receiving bank must make a reasonable attempt to get the money back. For example, by negotiating with the unintended recipient to repay the funds.
    If your bank or credit union does not help you to fix the mistaken internet payment, you can lodge a dispute with the Financial Ombudsman Service Australia".

    • Thanks.

      It's now called AFCA, and it covers the small business too.

  • +2

    As the name and account number with bsb is known, hire a private investigator to find out the recipients address, then Send a letter of demand.

    If no reply, go back to police (the one near the address) and if they can’t help go to court.

    Hope all will work out.

    • It won't work, police already said it is a civil matter - how would your friend prove it is not a , for example, " change of mind" case ? Your friend and the receiver originally had an oral agreement about some works etc so he gets paid $2k / wk, - now your friend changed his mind due to some reason unknown to third party…The fact it took 11 weeks to for him to come and ask is already making onlookers here doubting your friend's story let along in a court ( and I doubt your friend would like to go to court to have all of business dealings under microscope) …

      • If the friend doesn't want to go to court than I guess $22,000 is not that important to worth the effort.

        If the friend does want to go to court then it will be civil action but as I said above, I think private investigator is one feasible avenue but it costs.

      • Yeah, police might not help unless it’s a slow day and they are bored.

        Of course we don’t know what’s true and what’s not but if OPs case is as said this is what I would do.

        • The same onus to prove the money is rightful yours would fall to the recipient.

          As long as you can prove the same amount of money were paid to another person, you have a case.

          • @jayzee: Not that your friend does not have a case, however, the case can easily become a " he says, she says" one

            • -1

              @Maxxjet: May be you can tell me how banks can claw back the money they wrongly transfer to unintended recipient?

              • +1

                @jayzee: With a willing party, everything is easy, he/ahe should have contacted your friend already without being asked by the banks. Unfortunately in this case, there is no such willing party so be prepared, should your friend’s story hold up.

  • First thing previous payee list means he was former employee.. so your friend must have his details from previous employee list lol. Also I am preety sure if that employee close his account then bank can not reopen account for few years with identical no because of record keeping purpose for ato. I believe any employee does not get 1st week wages will let boss know instantly, so I believe he was transferring money for tax saving purpose which could be his relative who does not know how to check online untill got 3 months statement. So 11 weeks = 3 months around. Case solved.

    • +1

      I believe any employee does not get 1st week wages will let boss know instantly, so I believe he was transferring money for tax saving purpose which could be his relative who does not know how to check online untill got 3 months statement. So 11 weeks = 3 months around. Case solved.

      You could be right, something is bogus here.

    • The rightful employee did receive the pay after he contacted my friend. It's in the original post which was updated two days ago.

      The previous payee was paid once only in 2016, again it's in the original post. It doesn't seem like he was an employee if you only paid once.

      • +1

        Your friend did 11 transfers of $2k without realizing something is not right when it is supposed to be automatic- not saying this is not true however a too big oversight or coincidence in any sense. I got that he is a busy man can’t be bothered to check with the finance minister however if he got called by an unhappy employee 11times for late salary and did that 11 times manual transfers , it makes people think he actually has a bit of spare time. Again not doubting your friend story but trying to point out the logics here.

      • First thing I am book keeper and any employee you pay by electronic fund transfer need all details which includes tfn ,abn, address , phone no email even super no. If he paid you former employee he must have all details. It’s not matter you pay for week or pay for month,
        I think what you saying is your friend have no details at all of former employee, it’s ghardrd to digest.

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