Car Involved in an Accident - Whilst Being Serviced

cookietime on 03/05/2019 - 11:28
Last edited 03/05/2019 - 13:06 by 1 other user

Hi Ozbargainers,

It's a long messy story so please bear with me.

Two weeks ago my parents dropped their car off for a service at Toyota. The service centre was at a different location (due to reno work) so the mechanic drove the car to their service centre. The car was hit on the way. The mechanic was not at fault because the other car failed to give way.

Toyota told my parents that they would claim through their insurance. A few days ago they said that the car was written off and offered to pay the market value for the car.

My parents have comprehensive insurance with an agreed value, which is higher than the offered market value. However, I assume that because they didn't claim through their own insurance, Toyota's insurance doesn't need to offer the agreed value, is that correct?

They are reluctant to claim through their own insurance because the car was hit a few days before insurance renewal date. The agreed value at the time (for FY 18-19) was higher (more than 2K) than the agreed value after the policy was renewed (FY 19-20). Their insurer told them that if they make a claim now, they will need to provide all evidence proving that the accident happened during the previous policy.

My parents are in their 70s and don't cope well with stress. While we try to help them as much as we can, they are stressed out from the uncertainty and things that they need to do from their end. I reckon the simplest thing to do now is to negotiate the market value with Toyota's insurance. Honestly we don't like our chances as they are quite pushy and we have never dealt with this issue before.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and what did you do?

Thank you!

Update 1: Thank you so much for your suggestions! Greatly appreciated!

The car is a Corolla 2012, 51,000km on the odometer. The difference between the offered and agreed value is $1,400. If they make a claim to their insurance, they have to pay $700 and Toyota dealer said that they wouldn't cover this amount so if they make a claim, they would get $700 extra and a long wait until their car is assessed and paid out.

I'm not sure why they have to pay the excess neither, but that was what their insurer advised. On the hindsight, they'd better claim through their own insurer rather than waiting for Toyota's insurance company.

Regarding the option of getting a similar used car, the dealership said that they didn't have anything and couldn't find anything. When my parents asked them about buying a new car from them, they would give a standard discount as they would for a normal customer.

Automotive

Comments

  • sghetti on 03/05/2019 - 11:39
    +4

    I guess at it's simplest, ensure they can get a like for like car at the market rate that Toyota's insurance provider is offering. If you can, then all is right with the world?

    • sghetti on 03/05/2019 - 11:41
      +1

      If it doesn't, then I'd say it would be a clear case of negotiation:

      We have car make/model 'XYZ' in condition '123'. A comparable car on marketplaces goes for $xxx and you're offering less than this.

      • cookietime on 03/05/2019 - 12:09

        Thanks for your suggestions. We are collecting this information so that it's ready when we want to negotiate with the insurance company.

  • Baysew on 03/05/2019 - 11:41

    How many dollars difference between market value that they have been offered and agreed value? (Policy at 18-19).

    • cookietime on 03/05/2019 - 12:07

      The difference between the offered and agreed value is $1,400. The car was a Corolla 2012 with 51,000 km on the odo.

  • o53djz7qTPY4der on 03/05/2019 - 11:49
    +5

    Just put in a claim with your insurer. You've got evidence so should not be an issue. Your insurer is going to recoup their costs from the other party.

    This is why you pay for your insurance. Toyota's insurer is going you don't make a claim so they can save money. You might be eligible for a higher payout, car hire etc. This will cost them more than market value.

    • Tech5 on 03/05/2019 - 12:22
      +1

      There could be problems with unnamed driver excess etc, now you are in a fight with Toyota to get them to pay that too

      • cookietime on 03/05/2019 - 12:30

        You are absolutely correct. I forgot to mention this in the OP. The excess is $700 and the Toyota dealership refused to cover this amount.

        • whooah1979 on 03/05/2019 - 12:34

          the Toyota dealership refused to cover this amount.

          The dealership's reputation is worth more than $700. They choosing to not pay the excess is bad for business.

        • sghetti on 03/05/2019 - 13:40

          That's terrible. THEY crashed your parents car, even though it wasn't their fault. They should not be out of pocket any more than what the service was going to cost.

          It sounds like your parents may not want confrontation or to push the issue, I certainly wouldn't be taking that as a final answer.

      • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2019 - 13:02

        It doesn't matter because your insurer won't be paying anything unless they're also Toyota's insurance. The only issue is the delay in informing them. They'll issue a letter of demand to Toyota on your behalf for all their costs, which Toyota's insurance will pay or negotiate. At that point, the stress is out of your hands because the insurers can argue among themselves.

        The only time you have to pay an excess is when you're at fault or you can't identify the at-fault party.

  • Randxyz123 on 03/05/2019 - 11:49

    They should speak to the service manager and the dealer principal. How old was their car ? Maybe the dealer would make up the difference by selling them a new car for a discount?

    Did they have new for old policy ?

    Their insurer told them that if they make a claim now, they will need to provide all evidence proving that the accident happened during the previous policy.

    Stat dec from the mechanic as well as evidence of booking for x date that was still inside the previous policy should be fine.

    How much higher is the agreed value ?

    • cookietime on 03/05/2019 - 12:17

      The car was a Corolla 2012 with 51,000 km on the odo. Difference in values is $1400.

      So far Toyota offered them the standard discount if they want to buy a new car. I'll ask if they spoke to the service manager and the dealer principal.

      • Randxyz123 on 06/05/2019 - 22:59

        Speak with the manager. Both the service manager and the dealer principal should be able to do something here to stop them from walking down the road to Nissan and telling their friends to do the same. At this point through no fault of Toyota's they are still without a car. I'd be a bit shocked if they didn't knock an extra $1400 off the price.
        A standard sales rep might not be able to as he/she needs to meet certain targets. DP should have no issues.

        If they make a claim to their insurance, they have to pay $700

        No, they wouldn't it isn't their fault so no excess.

  • spackbace on 03/05/2019 - 11:57
    +4

    Similar to above comment, I'd be talking to the GM/DP of the dealership and see what car they can get them into for the same/similar price. If they're prepared to do a quick easy deal to keep the peace and keep your folks as customers, you might get lucky and they might have a car for your folks.

    Worth going in there and sitting down with them

    • Love a bargain on 03/05/2019 - 12:44

      Exactly my thought
      They're a Toyota dealer so if they can find you a similar car (that's not worse than what they had) for the price of the payout, then all sweet. If they can't, then obviously the payout is not "market value" and use that as a basis for your negotiation.

    • cookietime on 03/05/2019 - 12:49

      Thanks! I'll discuss with my parents about this option.

      Buying a new car from them at a discounted price isn't seem to be an option as they don't want to give any extra discount.

      • spackbace on 03/05/2019 - 12:52

        Yeah not new, just grab a used one

  • whooah1979 on 03/05/2019 - 12:08
    +1

    They are reluctant to claim through their own insurance because the car was hit a few days before insurance renewal date.

    Why are so many drivers so afraid to file a claim with their own issuer?

    • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2019 - 12:59

      Yeah, this is crazy. If you can identify the at-fault party you should do this immediately as there's no situation where you will be out of pocket any amount at all.

      • wittyusername on 04/05/2019 - 16:59

        If you are not at fault, will your insurer chase the at-fault party for excess costs too?

        Sorry, haven't had to claim before.

        • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2019 - 13:26
          +1

          There are no 'excess costs' because you're not actually claiming money from your insurer. They'll chase the at-fault party for everything they have to pay you as well as any of their own costs.

          I've made two not at fault claims and both times all I had to do was call the insurer (immediately after the accident!) give them the details of the at-fault party (and details of the incident) and my insurer organised for my car to be repaired and I never heard anything else about it or paid anything.

  • Tech5 on 03/05/2019 - 12:21

    Don't go through their own insurance, go with Toyota instead and just keep pushing for your own agreed value. Treat it basically like you are trying to sell them your car, except Toyota has to buy it no matter what.

  • CMH on 03/05/2019 - 12:23
    +1

    Given you do not have a policy with your workshop's insurer, you can file a letter of demand for whatever you want against the workshop.

    They just might not pay the amount.

    What this means is that you can negotiate directly with the workshop or their insurer. If negotiations aren't getting you what you think your car is worth, you can take them to court.

    Otherwise the other option is to file with your own insurer, and provide proof they require, which doesn't sound too hard (stat dec from mechanic might suffice?). Tbh this wounds much easier.

    • CMH on 03/05/2019 - 15:04

      Also just noticed the update. $700 excess for this claim, is it going to be refunded once they determined it is not your fault?

      It is common for insurers to charge the excess first and then refund it once they decide the policy holder is not liable.

  • bloom on 03/05/2019 - 12:32

    That $1400 difference is probably only $700 after you pay your own excess to be fair…

    • Love a bargain on 03/05/2019 - 12:46

      & even less if the insurer than increase the premium in the future (as some insurers do)

    • CMH on 03/05/2019 - 12:46
      +3

      Not at fault accident, shouldn't have any excess.

      • Love a bargain on 03/05/2019 - 12:48

        apparently some insurers do (as has been discussed in other forum threads)

        • CMH on 03/05/2019 - 15:03

          While I concede there are many insurers with many different terms, the vast majority will not have an excess for any not-at-fault claims where they have someone to chase for costs (I'm assuming is the case here).

          Therefore shouldn't have any excess, as opposed to definitely.

          Always check the PDS before buying insurance peeps

  • [Deactivated] on 03/05/2019 - 12:58

    When you can identify the at-fault party you should always inform your insurer the moment you have the accident/know about the accident. Even some third party fire and theft policies only will deal with this for you, it's why you pay them. You will not have to pay an excess in this case as it wasn't your responsibility, the insurer will deal with getting your car repaired/replaced and then pursue the insurer/person responsible for the full amount of their costs (excess is irrelevant because you're not claiming money from your insurance, even though they are dealing with it on your behalf, they won't be out of pocket unless they're also the insurer of the at-fault party, and then it's their excess that will be affected).

    You should double check with your insurer this is the case but I've yet to come across one where this isn't the case. (Excepting some third party fire & theft policies which won't do this for you). Also, the situation is a little more unique where the at-fault party was driving the insured car.

    Delaying notifying your insurance leads to questions since you have a responsibility to inform them as soon as practical.

    In any case, you're entitled to at least the real market value for the car, that is, what it would cost to replace with an equivalent vehicle.

  • redforever on 03/05/2019 - 13:11

    In fairness, their insurance renewal notice with a 2k reduction in agreed value indicates the market value offered by toyota insurance is fair.

    You have two options, check with your insurance if you will be liable for excess or increased future premium by making a claim. If no, make a claim with them. otherwise, I think Toyota's offer seems fair. but nothing stopping you from negotiating a higher payout.

  • Bobtrimb on 04/05/2019 - 10:08

    Bro. Claim through your parents insurance. They will take Toyota to task and subsequently recover all costs. If everything is legit, dates or evidence shouldn't be an issue

  • Baysew on 27/07/2019 - 13:31

    Any updates on this long messy story?

  • [Deactivated] on 27/07/2019 - 15:30

    Just saw this thread.

    If the other driver was at fault by not giving way what does it have to do with the Toyota dealers insurance?

    • godofpizza on 29/07/2019 - 15:26
      +1

      the car wasn't driven by the owners. Some insurance might not cover it and may have to go thru the dealers insurance.

  • cookietime on 30/07/2019 - 14:51
    +2

    I was going to update the post a while ago but couldn't find the Edit button. Maybe the post was too old to be edited.

    A bit more background information before talking about the final outcome. At the time of the accident, Toyota convinced my parents that they should let them make a claim via their insurance, that the process would be straight forward, etc. My parents spoke to a consultant at an NRMA shopfront and were told that they would have to pay the excess because they did not have details of the other driver. Toyota refused to hand over details of this driver. My parents disagreed with NRMA but couldn't get a different answer, hence they decided to try dealing with Toyota insurance.

    When Toyota insurance refused to negotiate on the payout value and became rude, my parents called NRMA to speak to a different person, who agreed that Toyota dealership should be liable for the excess. They got in touch with the dealership to confirm the story and went from their.

    My parents received the amount that they insured the car for, without paying for the excess. Though they had to wait for another month or so until NRMA assessed the car and made their decision.

    • godofpizza on 30/07/2019 - 16:54

      would you ever recommend that dealership/toyota insurance again for the trouble they put you thru?

      when toyota offered you the payout figure was this based on the local price? the NRMA payout figure an agreed value?

      • cookietime on 01/08/2019 - 11:21

        No I wouldn't recommend as you would imagine! The dealership was fairly helpful at the beginning by giving my parents a loan car while waiting. When my parents expressed an interest of buying another Toyota, they said that they wouldn't be able to give any discount on top of their current promotion and directed us to speak to their sale department like a normal customer.

        As we decided to submit a claim through NRMA, they hassled us to get the car back asap. At one point they sent us an email stating that they needed the car back immediately because they already sold the car and the new owner was waiting to pick up the car. My parents ended up returning the car to them and used our car for a few weeks while waiting to buy a new car.

        Dealing with Toyota Insurance was another headache on its own. They refused to negotiate and pretty much said "that's all we can offer. Take it or leave it". The assessor was extremely rude too. We spoke to him after receiving the payout offer but he refused to listen and negotiate.

        I thought it was really weird that they didn't want to negotiate because they would lose more money if we put a claim through our insurance. Wouldn't they have to pay the amount that NRMA paid us, plus excess and other costs?

        • godofpizza on 01/08/2019 - 11:27

          i had the some problem with RACV, they offered a payout based on the market value of one car on carsales. Which had more miles and similar specs. I didn't think it was a good estimate i manage to get a bit more. It wasn't worth the hassle as the accident wasn't our fault. and both parties were with RACV.

          anyway i glad you got it sorted. to be honest an older corolla should need to go back to a dealership for a service.

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