Parking in an 2P Zone for 8 Hours and Getting Away with It - A Moral Dilemma

Just looking to see what OzBargain thinks about the logic behind my work commute.

I live about 7km away from work as the crow flies.

I've tried catching the bus to work, but it's too slow - it takes about 1 hour and 15 minutes on two all-stops services and requires a transfer + a fairly long walk. This was not helped by my direct bus route to work being truncated and replaced with one that goes around the world before requiring a transfer (it previously took me 50 minutes by bus with the direct service). I also tried riding my electric bike to work (~40-50 mins), but a few close calls with cars has spooked me.

So I went back to driving my car. The parking situation is like this - there are heaps of '2P 8am-6pm/8am-10pm Residents Excepted' zones within about a 400 metre radius to the south of the building, with parking spaces usually always available, but obviously I'm going to be spending 8 hours at work so that was out of the question.

Unrestricted spaces were available around 400 to 1000 metres away from the building to the south, but they were pretty much full by around 8am. After that, parking choices are a 20 minute/1.5km walk from an industrial area into work, or pay $30 to park inside the building for one day (yes, that expensive - this isn't even the CBD, either).

Now, the council have started removing many of these unrestricted parking spaces as of a couple of weeks ago for various reasons - a school redevelopment with associated movement of the pick up/drop off zones was one. Expansion of the residents' parking zone to another side of the road was another. Hence there was no more unrestricted parking available within fairly reasonable walking distance to the office unless I arrive before, say, 7am.

So after these changes, I actually paid $30 a day for parking in the building for a few weeks because I'm a foolish, lazy bastard. A friend snapped me out of it once they showed me the obscene amounts of money I was throwing away on parking (yes, I know…).

I realised there was a third option - parking in the 2P zone all day and going out to the car and checking for chalk marks periodically (e.g. at lunchtime). I worked out that even if I did get booked, say, once a week, I'd probably still come out on top budget-wise (the parking fine in NSW for overstaying in a spot is $110).

The thing I was most concerned about was the reputed zealousness of the City of Sydney's parking rangers - I'd heard that they are absolutely ruthless and have armies of parking rangers in hi-vis coming around with the chalk every two hours…one month later, and I haven't even had my tyres chalked once.

I've noticed several other cars in the 2P zones near my office building with the same idea as me. They're often still there when I come back to the car.

So as a result, I'm saving heaps of money by parking in the 2P zones…but there is the ethical problem where I'm potentially depriving residents of parking, which is presumably why those parking restrictions exist in the first place.

What would the people of OzBargain do if they were in my shoes?

Poll Options

  • 73
    Keep parking in the 2P zone near work
  • 5
    Walk 20 minutes from unrestricted parking to work
  • 2
    Ride electric bike
  • 1
    Catch the bus
  • 1
    Pay the $30/day for underground parking, you tightarse!
  • 1
    Taxi!

Comments

  • +1

    Is there a slightly longer bike route that avoids trafffic better? Or perhaps get a folding electric bike or scooter to fit in the car, park 1.5km away and save time that way. 5 parking tickets = one of those Xiaomi scooters.

    • This. I used to do the same when I worked in Melb CBD. Drove halfway in. Parked somewhere free. Rode the bike the rest of the way. Best of both worlds.

      Still unsure why it takes OP that long to ride in with an electric bike, let alone a standard road bike…

      • Agree, I used to commute 6.5km to work. The longest it took was just over 20min. Admittedly it was mostly flat and no traffic lights etc to stop at but I don’t get 40-50min on an electric bike.

  • +2

    ..but there is the ethical problem where I'm potentially depriving residents of parking,

    Let's be honest - if you really felt guilty, you'd know exactly what to do without the need to ask.

    For me, I'd just park there. The inspectors are free to come around to write you up whenever they want and it's not your fault if they don't.

  • +2

    keep parking there dude
    lifes all about the grift

  • With parking. Good on you.

  • +3

    I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that, regardless of whether you get fined or not, what you're doing is morally questionable. It's not a victimless crime, you are taking away a parking spot from someone who would otherwise be using it for its legitimate use.

    I have plenty of examples of people parking illegally causing issues for others. Here are some that have been constant issues for me:

    1) There's a road near where I work that's a 2 lane road, but people are allowed to park in the left lane apart from a clear-way between 4.30pm and 6.30pm. The selfish people who leave their cars there through the clearway causes drivers to have to merge into one lane right before a set of major lights. Usually I spend around 2 minutes at that intersection before I'm through the lights, it can take up to 6 - 7 minutes when having to merge into one lane because a selfish bastard decided not to move his car for the clear-way.

    2) This one is similar to yours. My parents live near a train station and people would always park on the street in front of their house, meaning that when they had more than one visitor (their driveway can only accommodate two vehicles), the other visitor would have to drive a very far distance to park. After complaints from residents, the local council erected 2P signs there, after which I could visit them and park right in front of their house without having to drive a long way to find a park somewhere. After a few months (after the council did not fine anyone), people went right back to parking in that street. Residents had to harass the council to send around a parking ranger to deal with the issue.

    Don't be a selfish bastard - organise to car pool with work mates who live near you and split the parking, catch an Uber, get to work earlier, catch public transport, hitchhike…etc. There are plenty of ways to get to work without being a nuisance to other people and inconveniencing them. In your own post, you say that you are depriving residents and their visitors of a parking spot. You know you are doing the wrong thing.

  • +2

    Have a look round the 2P area each day after work, heaps on people park for more than 2 hours in these and if the rangers have been you will see at least one car with a ticket. If there aren't any tickets they probably haven't been for the day.

    City of Sydney patrol different areas with different frequencies, around the CBD they'll be out every day, in Pyrmont they're usually out once or twice a week, once you get to the residential streets in Glebe they'd probably be there once every few weeks at most.

    Though anecdotally they do often hit areas in batches, so they might be there on Monday then Tuesday or Wednesday of the same week and then not come back for a few weeks. If you get a ticket I'd avoid the area for a few days.

    As you've noted they will chalk your tires so if you've got time to walk out and check them at lunch then you'll probably save yourself some money.

    I can't imagine you'd average anywhere near a parking ticket every 3.67 days to make the tickets more expensive than the parking lot.

    Also, $30 is an obscene amount to charge for parking anywhere but the CBD.

  • +1

    Walk 1.5km to save the worry and cost. It would probably take ~15 minutes. Think of it as free exercise.

  • Even if my park was out the front I’d get pretty sick of checking my car every two hours. Doesn’t your boss care?

    Is there a middle ground where you can drive to a train station or a point 10mins bus ride away or similar where you can more easily park?

    • +1

      Even if my park was out the front I’d get pretty sick of checking my car every two hours. Doesn’t your boss care?

      Probably about as much as the people that take a smoke break every hour.

  • +3

    How can it possibly take you 40+ min to do 7km on an electric bike? That's ridiculous. That should be a 20min ride tops.

    Anyway, with that off my chest I say just keep parking there, just don't complain when the inevitable happens and you get fined. All it takes is someone to get sick of it and make a complaint. Near work the rangers never come around either so you get people parking illegally and stupidly. One or two cars at first then more and more. Whenever it gets too bad and the trucks start having trouble getting in and out we call the council and they immediately send out a ranger who books 30+ cars in one go.

    Personally that short a distance I'd be riding for sure or at least walking the 1.5km from the other parking.

    • The shortest driving route is about 10.5km, so there's that…also I'd rather not get all hot and sweaty on the way to work so I just let the electric motor do most of the work (I do ride faster coming home…). Also quite a few hills on the way, too.

  • Can you start work earlier? Not can, have you asked?

    Or

    Get an electric scooter and ride the footpaths from home.

    • +1

      Get an electric scooter and ride the footpaths from home.

      That fine is much larger than any overstaying fine OP can get! lol

  • +3

    What would the people of OzBargain do if they were in my shoes?

    Always remember the first rule of Parking in an 2P Zone for 8 Hours and Getting Away with It.

    • Always remember the first rule of Parking in an 2P Zone for 8 Hours and Getting Away with It.

      When you get a fine start a new thread asking how to get out of the unfair fine?

  • I'd be worried about annoying the residents who are probably the people who requested the residents' parking in the first place. They will get to know your car pretty quickly, and will be hanging out with it all day. Slashed tyres etc will be more expensive than a fine.

    • +1

      Escalation to criminal damage is probably unlikely. Most people are reasonable.
      And, as reasonable people, local residents will probably complain to the council who will send out parking inspectors.

      • +1

        Hopefully, but I live near a train station in a street where commuters like to park every day. It is not a problem for me, but some of the other residents and some of the commuters can get pretty aggressive in their attempts to park. I've seen several cars deliberately damaged for various reasons. I've also seen people double park their cars to block another car that was parked taking up 2 spaces. One of my neighbours does this to cars if he can't get a park for himself. Another neighbour let down the tyres of someone who parked across their driveway. When people get desperate to park they seem to do crazy things in my neighbourhood.

        EDIT: I have so many crazy parking stories that I couldn't help adding another one. We also have shops 2 blocks from our house. The shops have 2P parking. There is one shop owner who will come out and threaten you if you park outside his shop and don't go into it.

  • Do rangers still use chalk?

    • The rangers in our area (VIC) have made the switch to using a marker that requires a UV light to be seen, so unless you happen to also carry a UV torch, you wouldn't know if you'd been marked or not.

    • In areas that aren't the CBD, yes.

    • Not in some areas https://amp.smh.com.au/technology/virtual-chalk-to-keep-tabs…

      If you happen to be in a digitally monitored area, you can check your car as often as you like - not having a chalk mark does not mean you are not going to get a fine in the mail.

  • this isn't a moral dilemma

  • Park 1km away and buy a Xiaomi M365 Scooter and scooter it to work. Hell, if you live 7km away, scooter all the way to work on nice days.

  • Plenty of RICH types in Sydney CBD park in "No Stopping/Parking etc" zones all day and cop the $200+ fine. They consider it cheap for the convenience of parking in front of the building etc.

    PS: As for your idea, Officers also "Valve Stem" so don't rely on chalk and the clever ones will pick up on what you do and will outsmart you. Remember the 2P is for all spaces within the zone/area. So just moving your car a space forward or across the road/around the bock does not suffice.

  • 7km? That’s a no brainer, ride to work. Even with a few hills you should be able to do that a lot quicker than 40min. Save the car for rainy days if you must, but think of the fuel savings and health benefits of cycling let alone not ha ing to worry about parking or traffic jams.

  • 7km as the crow flies, there's your solution.
    just build a drone based copter to carry you
    .

    • Or train a crow to carry you.

  • As someone who has worked on the software that the parking officers use…
    There are other ways of recording the fact your car is parked in a 2P zone. Officers can do valve stemming (which is recording the position of the valve on a front and a rear tire) and also license plate recording. There can be integrated parking sensors placed in the ground that detects magnetic force above the sensor, using an algorithm to record the individual reading that can detect if the same car has been moved and then reparked over the same spot.

    Chalk is old school because everyone knows about it. Don't you think it's a waste of time having to go out multiple times a day to check for chalk and then maybe get a fine anyway?
    You can rent car spaces now that might work out cheaper than a paid carpark, or walk longer. Or use a scooter/bike to go from car to office if it's too far.

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