eBay/PayPal Charged an Extra $20 in Transaction. Scam?

drspy00 on 04/07/2019 - 22:31
Last edited 04/07/2019 - 22:34

Just bought a $600+ item for a family member from overseas using the ING debit card due to no conversion fees. Noticed right away sneakily there was no mention to use paypal conversion option or card conversion,only an example of the exchange rate. I clicked it and double checked to make sure the conversion was handled by Visa Card as I would never ever use the paypal option. After double clicking it was all in US Dollars, its $387.40 USD and $40.49 USD GST (427.89) USD total, I clicked pay. As I am aware of currency charges, I always check to see what rate was given and have been impressed with ING Visa debit for being extremely reasonable. Only to see the transaction has appeared in the account as $634.70 AUD. I did the maths and it didnt add up. Multiple Currency conversion sites and visa daily rate calculator quote it as $609-615 AUD when converted. Every other transaction on ING Visa has matched exactly the daily rate. So this is an extra unexplained $20 I am not happy about. I have double checked the paypal transaction and it was in USD, I remember doubly checking to make sure the card provider option was ticked so I am puzzled, and annoyed this happened. Could paypal possibly be going against my wish and using their currency conversion even when I made sure not to?

Is there anything I can do about this? Would be willing to cancel the transaction, but that would mean a long wait, and possibly not being able to pay for the item again through ebay. This is really annoying because I was super careful to double check. I know its $20, but $20 for nothing is annoying!

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Comments

  • SnoozeAndLose on 04/07/2019 - 22:43
    +2

    you should change your payment currency to USD and use your CC to pay.

    • drspy00 on 04/07/2019 - 22:49

      I did. I double checked it. This is why I am annoyed about it. I am pretty much a tightwad when it comes to these fees and paypal adds something like a 3 or 4% conversion fee.

  • drspy00 on 04/07/2019 - 23:17

    What is weird is the paypal payment when logged into paypal is broken down as the item price, gst, shipping etc, coupon discount of 5% but received another paypal receipt for 445.39 USD which calculates to roughly the amount taken on the card, so its like they didnt take the coupon into account even though it worked, and its proved on the invoice. Thinking this could be some kind of glitch.

  • Master Bates on 05/07/2019 - 06:30
    +3

    MS Paint diagram would be helpful (or maybe just a screenshot).

  • Neoika on 05/07/2019 - 07:24
    -1

    ING charges conversion fee too.

    • drspy00 on 05/07/2019 - 12:45

      No they dont, they charge the visa card daily rate, which was still $20 less.

  • djkelly69 on 05/07/2019 - 09:19

    Bank cards don't normally give you the exact interbank exchange rate.

    • drspy00 on 05/07/2019 - 12:47

      I know, but its never $20-25 more. I calculate it pretty well. ING charges only visa daily rate which is $20 less.
      Paypal have used their conversion, even though I selected not to do that and to do it with the cards one.

  • drspy00 on 05/07/2019 - 14:47

    Paypal sent a receipt of payment for $445.39 USD, but the ebay invoice was only $427 USD which also takes into account the 5% coupon we used. The payment appears to have gone through at the higher payment without the coupon, which seems really weird.

    • wannagrababargain on 05/07/2019 - 15:09
      +1

      You can go into the Paypal transaction details and see the exact funding taken from your card and seperate vouchers/coupons applied for example:

      Funding details
      Payment type: Credit card
      Payment method: -$85.45 USD - VISA ending in xxxx
      This transaction will appear on your card statement as PAYPAL *XXXX
      Payment type: Voucher
      Payment method: -$4.50 USD -

      Also ING does charge a 2.5% international transaction fee but if you do meet the criterea for "$0 inernational fees" it will be applied as a rebate..so you will get a ~+$20 rebate applied to your account.

      • drspy00 on 05/07/2019 - 15:47

        Thanks so much, you have been helpful, That would explain it! I forgot they rebate it! The person on the phone at ING did not say that. Still confusing me that paypal sent a receipt for a different amount, I did not think about the fact ING rebate the discount later!

      • drspy00 on 05/07/2019 - 17:14

        Your explanation was a good one, but even at 2.5% it does not add up to that sum. I also went back and noticed the international transaction fee is charged separately, then put back but even for a $400USD purchase it was only about a $9 fee, not a $20 one. Every other purchase I have made, it matches perfectly to the visa card daily rate with 0% added.

  • drspy00 on 05/07/2019 - 17:47

    Paypal have now confirmed the transaction was in USD but it was firstly converted automatically by paypals rate from USD to AUD and then back to USD to complete the transaction! This happened automatically without me choosing this, I always make sure I choose the paypal conversion rate. Really makes me realise paypal is more sneaky than I ever thought! Does not even show the transaction in AUD like before, the whole thing stays only in USD!

  • drspy00 on 16/07/2019 - 00:30
    Merged from How Does eBay and PayPal Get Away with The Currency Conversion Scam? Is It Legal Under Consumer Law?

    After being stung by ebay/Paypal with an extra $25 in fees with their default currency conversion scam during a purchase in USD. I made sure the currency was set to “Card issuer will determine your exchange rate” and it still was charged. I also made sure the currency was set to USD when clicking the pay button. Was shocked to see it still charged me their currency conversion rate. Paypal confirmed their currency converter was used, even though I did not authorised it and double checked. This could be a glitch or something I believe was on purpose.

    I am wondering if they could be breaking consumer laws, or are they totally exempt because the company is based overseas? (eBAY Have an ABN) If a company in Australia did this, it would not get away with it.
    Imagine if Coles or Woolworths decided to implement their own payment provider for example, which by default charged an extra %3.5-4%, unless you changed it back to the visa or MasterCard option.

    I know its common knowledge about this and some may not think of it as a scam, but its become harder to even see if the currency conversion is in place. It always would show the transaction in AUD if their converter was enabled. I have tested numerous transactions to see it now does not even show the currency in AUD like it did before, it shows the original transaction with a small currency conversion detail on the top. Any other site you pay, if the invoice says in USD or GBP it will be in that native currency when you click pay.

    Even Aliexpress does not appear to charge big fees as I have compared the currency conversion to be the same regardless of currency, and similar to the currency conversion on the day.

    I have screenshots of just before I clicked pay, and all other documents to prove what happened. This is not just about the money, more the principle of it. I make sure I use a no fee debit card to get around these fees, so it doubly annoys me! So currently fired up enough to push as far as I can go with this, even if it achieves nothing I want to try.

    • Meho2026 on 16/07/2019 - 03:23

      Go get em

      • pgcs on 16/07/2019 - 08:01
        +2

        Ooohhhhh no. Not correct.

        If you're asked to use AUD, they are doing a 'Dynamic Conversion' which is always done at terrible rates. Choose to pay in local currency - preferably with an FX fee free card.

      • TheBooleanOne on 16/07/2019 - 08:23

        If you did a quick Google search for dynamic conversion before posting, you would see this isn't the case, like here

    • c64 on 16/07/2019 - 08:25

      ask for a refund of the extra charges

    • bloom on 16/07/2019 - 08:40

      Lawyer up!

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 16/07/2019 - 09:49
      +1

      I made sure the currency was set to “Card issuer will determine your exchange rate” and it still was charged.

      Did you definitely use a linked Visa or Mastercard for the purchase?

      My understanding is paying via a bank account will always use Paypal currency conversion.

      I have never been charged a currency conversion since I changed the option manually yonks ago.

      • drspy00 on 16/07/2019 - 15:59

        Yes, definitely. I think you are right about the bank account too and that's happened before by accident so I removed my bank account, was accidentally charged a fee when paying ebay fees once.

    • Cheeper on 16/07/2019 - 09:54

      " I make sure I use a no fee debit card to get around these fees, "
      Does this work the same as an international conversion fee free credit card?

      • drspy00 on 16/07/2019 - 16:00

        Yes, its ING but ive also got a macquarie debit card and use them all the time, it always settles at the mastercard or visa daily rate, so a very small fee charged by visa in the payment compared to the actual currency rate but its still very good as most cards charge 2.5-3% of that.

    • PotPlant on 16/07/2019 - 10:23
      +1

      Would it be possible that you changed your payment method (eg switched to another cc card) AFTER selecting “Card issuer will determine your exchange rate” as I have noticed if you do that it once AGAIN defaults to the standard "Hi I am paypal and I am going to rob you with my foreign currency fees".
      You have to once again select the option “Card issuer will determine your exchange rate” and then everything should be apples. Hope this makes sense. Basically if you change anything on the payment screen, it'll default to the setting where Paypal will make the most money.

      • drspy00 on 16/07/2019 - 16:03

        I dont think so but my point is no matter what it is still very misleading. Any other site that charged a 3.5% fee wouldnt get away with it. The payment is also in USD and ive tested it since, even if you use the paypal currency option (which is nolonger mentioned like before) it still shows the payment solely in USD, so its very very easy to accidentally have the paypal option selected, which I admit but I am sure it didnt happen as I took the screenshot at the time of payment. I did this as it was for someone else, so had to send them the details.

  • Love a bargain on 25/07/2019 - 14:02
    +1

    I've experienced the reverse of this. Purchased a few items in FC on eBay (didn't select DCC). The payments went through fine in the FC as they're supposed to. However, when the payments were refunded for varies reasons, PayPal applied DCC on the refund (i.e. the amount that got put back onto my card was in the card currency - rather than the currency of the purchase). This means the amount a got back was substantially less (% wise) than what I originally paid.

    This is a clear contravention of PayPal's own T&Cs. However, When I contacted them, they refused to acknowledged that'd happened and I didn't get any update from them after the first few messages (when they promised they'd look into it). Life got in the way and it took me too long to realise that I haven't heard from PayPal for a while. By which time, the message have already dropped off from my inbox/ outbox in PayPal and I am no longer able to resurrect that.

    Not a lot of money in my case but still a terribly dodgy practice nonetheless. (The unexpected might just assume that it's due to exchange rate movement.)

    • drspy00 on 30/07/2019 - 11:01

      Yeah, and the transaction in question here has a possible problem with the seller, so may have to do this too, so I would almost bet it will happen. Its quite a grubby company and if another alternative to paypal comes about I will use them. They are not saying to me that Paypal determines if the transaction should have the currency converted or not even if you choose to let your card do the conversion!

      • Love a bargain on 30/07/2019 - 13:27
        +1

        Just got charged foreign transaction fee by Citibank on 2 AUD-denominated eBay purchases paid through PayPal. Never had that happened to me before. Luckily they're small purchases so 3% on that was only a few cents - but still annoyed nonetheless

        • drspy00 on 01/08/2019 - 14:30

          I thought citibank didnt charge any of those fees. ING will refund them which is good.

          • Love a bargain on 01/08/2019 - 15:04

            @drspy00: Never happened before with all of my previous eBay + PayPal transactions on the same Citibank credit card. Reckon Citibank must have been charging the fee on the ground that the transaction was processed overseas. Not sure if it's worth my time to fight them over a few cents.

  • spersephone on 05/07/2020 - 17:06

    I just got charged considerably more than eBay predicted. They said it would be about $400AUD, and I took that to mean including the shipping and import charges, but I think it didn’t. I got charged $434 and $90 AUD for the global shipping. Really unclear what I was actually paying for.

    By my estimates from their original invoice, it should have been no more than around $500 AUD, including the global shipping.

    An extra $30-35 that I don’t really understand. Why bother coming up with an estimate if it’s going to be so far out from what was charged almost instantly, since I paid immediately?

    • Love a bargain on 08/07/2020 - 11:43
      +1

      Did you pay in FC or AUD? The estimated AUD amount eBay display is using the market rate (similar to what your CC company would charge you) but PayPal's conversion rate is much worse if you choose to pay in AUD.

  • spersephone on 08/07/2020 - 13:41

    I’m not sure I was given any choice in the transaction. It just went through. I know about the conversions.

    • drspy00 on 10/07/2020 - 13:25

      If it was in Australian dollars, you will always get a worse deal than even the worst cards can offer. They are so sneaky but hopefully that may change with ebay ditching paypal!

  • OpayuOnam on 03/08/2020 - 15:42

    In addition to the exchange scam, now I am dealing with a refund scam. PayPal as they always do defaults to shitty conversion ( I am very certain I chose to use CC conversion and not sure how paypal managed to change that), then when seller refunded me PayPal exchanged the refund again with buy/sell price so I lost on that TWICE around 6% difference, since they screwed me 3% for buy and 3% for sell (refund).
    Why I call this stealing/scam? Simple:
    1. PayPal default to their own conversion
    2. PayPal continuously makes it harder to avoid using their conversion
    3. PayPal does not allow you to change conversion method for all transactions
    4. When ever I contacted them about this issue, they gave me the run around and faffing about.

    I am done with this, I am going to complain to FOS and take it all the way.

    I have stopped using PayPal and am slowly changing all my transactions to direct CC.

    Wish I could swear in this forum :D

    EDIT: Actually forgot to mention the insult to injury, when they use "their own" exchange rate if you have a CC with international transaction fees, you will still be slugged with the 1-3%… So really what is the point of PayPal conversion other than stealing?

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