Hello all,
Being on this website for a while now and always enjoy reading AMAs so I thought I'd start one myself. 10 years experience which includes 4 year apprenticeship and 6 years out of my trade.
Employed full-time, I'd class myself as a commercial electrician, mainly doing new installs on shopping centres and high rises throughout my career. I do feel like my knowledge as an electrician in other fields is lacking but I will do my best to answer any queries.
Agreed with BensonP, even on big commercial sites, is there always a team from a high voltage distribution company come out and do their own commissioning on the transformer and generally inspection of the main switchboard as we are hooking to onto their network. Saying that, when we do flick the main switch on for the first time, we are geared up only in PPE. No fiberglass rod
Tools wise - always stuck with channel locks for linemen pliers and side cutters, haven't actually had a feel for Knipex yet, although I've only heard good things and price. For testing equipment including multi-meter, company and myself own fluke and kyoritsu which has to be calibrated every 6 months otherwise test results don't mean a thing.
HV guy aye cool!
Have you seen the work being done overseas? They are working on 1100kv UHVDC network in China?
China is also use a bunch of UHVDC 750kv setups with help from ABB. Interesting stuff maybe one day we will revert back to DC.
Russia have the 100kv AC transmission setup but apparently the voltage is lowered but it did run at 100kv for some time.
Wow I didn't know anyone ran DC transmission grids!
In Victoria it's all AC, from the 240V up to 220kv and 500kv lines.
Hey OP,
Why is it such a common occurrence for contractors to not know the difference between constant current and constant voltage, and similarly - series wiring and parallel wiring. Is it simply not covered during the course?
Too be honest, I had to google the difference between constant current and constant voltage. Definitely not covered in tafe and not something I've come across or really dealt with at work. Series and parallel wiring on the other hand is covered multiplied times at tafe, I've sure any electrician knows how to wire in series and parallel but talking and writing it on paper may be different.
For example; one time my apprentice asked me to draw up a two way switching circuit. I honestly couldn't do it, I could wire up on site but I blanked out and didn't even know where to start on paper. Went home, thought about it and came back the next day with the diagram haha.
Is that where you have a light with two switches, and toggling either switch will turn the light on or off?
Correct
@bargaingambler: Don’t they teach this stuff at high school in Australia? Like first year tech course? My first year of high school had machine shop, small motors, wood work and electrical. We did all sorts of electrical and had to design and wire up these types of scenarios. This was in Canada. Home wiring in Canada is a whole lot different and you can not simply cut a whole in a wall and drop an outlet in.
@Third_Gear: We did about one weeks worth of circuitry in grade 10 from memory, simple wiring diagrams but nothing hands on. Only hands on subject available is wood works, metal works and hospitality (High school goes from grade 7- grade 12 in aus)
What's your salary? And what has it looked like in the past and where do you think the ceiling is?
Edit. If not exactly yours, what is it for the average commercial sparky
As a qualified tradesmen, I've earned any where between $70000-$130000 depending how much overtime I've done for the financial year.
$130k!? This is why I'm leaving my profession (as a lawyer), where overtime is unpaid and, after 6-7 years of study and copious additional experience, a new solicitor is often on less than half of that amount and working 60+ hour weeks. Uni was a terrible choice. For someone who needs to support a family, a move to a trade sounds like a great choice.
how can I tell if a sparky is qualified / has gone through the relevant training?
Edit: for residential stuff
In Victoria they are registered with the ESV and will have an electrical license. Assume other states have a similar authority.
You can't really, Just have to trust them especially if they have the word 'Domestic' written all over their van.
Any advertising material must have their connectors licence number on it. You can ask for their contractors licence number, do a search and it will tell you if the licence is current. I'm quite sure it's the same in other states, in QLD you need to have an electrical contractor licence, or be working under someone who has one. Just having an electrical licence doesn't allow you to do domestic work on people houses. No contractors licence = no insurance
Sorry I might of misinterpreted Worf's question.
This is QLD's electrical license holder search;
https://fswqap.worksafe.qld.gov.au/elis/workerDetails.do
Two questions.
One, what is your view on a small DIY by home owner such as changing a light switch?
Two, I once had a local sparky come round to change three external light fittings. Instead of turning the power off first, he cut through the wire. I asked him why he didn't isolate and he said something like "it doesn't matter as you have a safety switch". It did indeed cut in and all was fine but it did seem rather reckless. He then proceeded to tell me about the time he got sent two Sim cards by Telstra, put one in his top drae and forgot about one for a year and then had to fight it out with them to get reimbursed. Riveting.
Not sure about your second question, but I can explain what he did.
The sparky was too lazy to walk to the meter box to turn off the lighting circuit, so he cut through the wire to isolate the circuit.
One of two things happened when cutting,
The active and neutral wire touched, creating a short circuit and tripping the circuit breaker.
The active and earth wire touched, sending a small amount of current along the earth, enough to trip the Residual Current Device.
This is a great way to blow a hole out of the side of his pliers. 2/10, would not recommend.
Thanks for the reply. He had good rates but I've never hired him again since!
BensonP is bang on the money, most of the time if you see a sparky with a hole in his pliers, it was accidental, not on purpose like in your case. Pure laziness
Nah, just touch neutral to earth to trip an RCBO. No need to risk a pair of Marvels.
But neutral already touches earth, bro.
The switchboard has a main earthing neutral, joining earth bar and neutral bar.
@BensonP: The neutral only touches the earth before the RCD. A neutral-earth fault at a light will trip the RCD, presuming OPs electrician didn't blow his pliers there would be no voltage or current on active as its open circuit at the light switch meaning an active-earth fault would do nothing.
Since the neutral will carry a small amount of voltage and current from other circuits, when it is shorted to earth it forms a path of less resistance and that current will bypass the RCD.
@Zodiacmindwarp: Nah, I'm not a domestic electrician at all.
I do high voltage electricity! Starting at 22kv haha
But thanks to Yawhae, for the explanation!
In my apartment bathroom, I've got a single light switch which turns on the light and fan (the light and fan are located separately, not a combo or anything). I want to change the light to one of those light/heater combos. Is this possible with my set up? And what kind of cost am I looking at?
What you want can easily be done. If there are no windows in your bathroom, that is why the fan and light turns on together, always need a fan running if there are no windows.
Heater/fan/light combo $50-$200
Labour $100-200
I'm not a electrical contractor so the prices I've given for labour is a rough estimate.
Try like $100 to $1000 for fan/light/heater. I've installed some stupidly expensive ones. Probably not fit of ozbarginers.
Are you on call a lot if things happen or escalate quickly on a site that you've worked on?
Have the safety regs made it harder to get things done like confined space and working at height permits as well as Corp induction requirements?
Being a commercial electrician mainly doing new installs, I don't recall myself or anyone else in the company being 'on-call. Just isn't required, lucky enough to say nothing has really gone wrong. Other than other trades accidentally damaging live equipment which is a safety issue due to live exposed conductors which then usually gets rectified pretty quick.
Safety regs/OHS has certainly make things harder to get done. Most of the time, it is a bunch of paperwork and getting it signed off and doesn't really prove how competent you are to do the high risk work. All about covering the builder's ass/insurance! However the presence of OHS person around site do somewhat make people work a bit safer haha/
By corp induction do you mean general site induction required for site?
Hey thanks for the response, yes that's what I meant re induction.
My place of work we always are seeing incidents on hse dashboards relating to subcontractors
Site induction requirements is usually just a photocopy of your construction blue/white card as a minimum and any relevant tickets/card you have relating to your work. A light questionnaire which the answers are usually given. Do you work for a builder? Usually OHS works for the builder and they won't pin their staff mates for safety incidents on dashboards. They usually just pick on other trades/subcontractors.
what do you think about job opportunites of ppl getting into this field now days?
also have you heard about these guys:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lbmis-VUW0
lineman workers: Is this the way aussies do it as well? Wouldnt it be much safer to just run a relay whilst you work on one?
wow that is hectic, first time I've heard and watched these guys. Very interesting.
Job opportunities are always there in my opinion. Doing a prevocational electrical course(3-5months course) will help you create those opportunities.
yea first time i saw that i was blown away!
No we don't do this in Victoria.
As far as I know, we only do barehand work up to 66,000 volts. (Might even be only 22,000 - not 100% sure.)
Anything above that, the line will be isolated and earthed at both ends, before the working crew applied they're own earth's locally, with a fibreglass stick.
yeah that's what i would thought, but this was a massive suprise- i guess the video is old so i hope they have changed their practice- it's just crazy to risk anyone's life like that!
byt the way 66,000 is crazy too
This is the way it's done for HV live line work. There is really no difference between that and a bird on a wire. They say they are at 500kV but really that is in reference to ground/earth and since they are not touching ground/earth they are actually at 0V.
I can't believe nobody has asked this…
I got myself a new oven in the recent The Good Guys deal. I ended up deciding to pay a professional to install it. Could I have safely done this myself?
No
It's considered safe in most other countries…
Is it unsafe here because DIY work has been made illegal and, as a result, material on how to do electrical work safely in Australia is much harder to come by?
Jeez mate, you're like a broken record. You're only making a fool of yourself. Since this year the AS/NZS 3000:2018 mandates all circuits to be protected by an RCBO. The old oven circuit would NOT have been up the required standards.
You're only making a fool of yourself
Does my point not stand? It's considered safe enough to be legal basically everywhere else in the world. What makes it less safe in Australia, exactly?
We don't really have a good system in place for work to be independently inspected. No electrican wants to risk little pay and his insurance to verify your dodgey work.
People aren't taught basic electrical practice in schools and they more often than not self teach.
People are (profanity) stupid.
We have very high standards compared to the rest of the world. I've seen pleanty of shit DIYs try to pass off as good work. I also see pleanty of shit from supposedly good electrican to.
the oven's was a power point plug from memory so it doesnt have to be hardwired..hence you could do it safely in my opnion
Oh I've never come across an oven with a plug, I've only worked with hardwired ones hence why I said no.
i think it had a plug from memory. Even hardwired are pretty straight forward- but leagally can someone no licensed do them?
My old oven had a 32amp plug
https://agmelectrical.com.au/power-points/hpm-excel-power-po…
I had never seen one before
@spaceflight: wow I haven’t seen one like that either nor did I know a power point like that existed.
Usually the power point is a more industrial orientated square box with a cover
The circuit wouldn't be up to the new AS/NZS 3000:2018 standards
How much did you pay? I bought the same oven I think…
Need a dedicated circuit at my place… And cap the gas on old oven..
Oven usually requires it’s own circuit as adding onto an existing circuit may overload the circuit.
If it was a GPO then yes, easy plug and play if the oven was fitted with an electrical chord and the specs are like for like (10A or less if a 10A GPO). If like most electric ovens, they're 15A these days, it might have needed the GPO upgraded, which is where the sparky then comes in.
Also, any new installation:
- if hard-wired, does not need to be RCD protected.
- if plug-in, circuit must be RCD protected as it is now an outlet and can effectively be used for anything, not just an OVEN. It must also be installed alongside an isolating switch that is located nearby and labelled accordingly (layman's terms).
So there is definitely a few factors to be considered as to whether an electrician is required.
Making a wild assumption here, but replacing an old oven would generally go hand in hand with an older house, so typically the installation may be outdated. If it's a fairly new property, fair to say the relevant wiring and isolating switch would already be in place as it's much more common to wire this way as opposed to hard-wired these days, especially if appliances aren't supplied before handover.
Similar reasoning behind using a plug base at all Downlights, it allows the owner to perform their own servicing without the need for a sparky every time something needs to be changed, but again, stage of a project, cost cutting, etc can all negate the 'preferred' method of an install.
Thanks for the thread OP, some interesting stuff in there.
I have a lightbox sign with 4 fluro tubes in it at the front of a shop and I want to install a timer switch in it as I am too lazy to walk to the front and flick it on when it gets dark. Is there a particular product or application that you recommend for something like this?
The best product would be a time controlled photo electric cell. It's simple, when it gets dark, it'll turn the light on. Set a time for it to go off.
Yes, multi functional time contactor. you can set to what time it turns off and what time it turns on again. Time can easily also be adjusted to suit winter and summer as sun sets different time.
Another option you could do is to install a light sensor wired to the lights. Turns on when it gets dark(which you can adjust how dark it gets before it kicks the lights on)
Another option is really moving/adding a switch closer to where you want it
Thanks very much :)
say you found out a licenced electrician who did your wiring 15 years ago got the earth and neutral wires mixed up… any recourse?
How did you find out the earth and neutral wires were mixed up? I don't have an answer, however 15 years is a long time and anyone could have worked on it since.(that is probably his defence)
1) The cheap plug-in testers with three lights on top can usually detect that.
2) An electrician doing;
2a) a fuse-box/switchboard upgrade might have observed the bad wiring,
2b) an earth test could have detected appliance load to earth,
2c) a safety switch or RCBO install would have had the device tripping constantly.
What are your thoughts on electrical engineering design consultants and what tips would you like to give them to make your work easier?
hmm that is a great question. I don't have a great answer unfortunately. Any issue raised is usually resolved between my project manager and the electrical consultant. I do however hear the higher ups saying how stupid the consultants and how their idea won't work. Something like that…
Glad to hear your thoughts. I've met a lot of sparkies who have turned consultants so it's a bit strange to hear people say that considering the majority of consultants would care about practicality first.
What's the implication of switching the live and neutral connections when installing a light fixture? Obviously the light still works but what's the downside?
I’m terrible at explaining things so here’s a picture from google
https://aws1.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/c/7/c7…
Thanks makes sense
Yes! I've been preaching this little issue for the past 35 years. Luckily it's not too common to have an E.S in Australia. Some people just don't get it. In the U.S. they now make one plug pin larger than the other to avoid tis situation.
I bought a lot of LED bulbs from Ali Express, the ones that change colour with a remote control, I have not had any issues with them.
Should I be worried or are they relatively safe to use?
Haven’t really dealt with these before, however I don’t see it going wrong if it’s a Edison or B22 bulb. Not much room for error
They're just normal E27 screw in types.
Also, why are prices here in Aus so inflated for all the HUE and other smart bulbs?
I think you should be fine then. I agree, any smart lighting out there is way overpriced. Probably because its new technology, take leds for example;
6 years ago 90mm led down down light single colour would cost you anywhere from $40 to $100 ea. Now you could get a decent brand with tri colour dimmable for $5-20 ea.
I believe smart lighting prices will drop and be more affordable for the whole house overtime.
Hey OP, thanks for the AMA
what is your educational background? Did you finish high school?
Completed high school, straight into a prevocational course - cert II in electro technology. Just under five months long, teaches you basic electricity theory and one months worth of work experience. Otherwise know as ‘preapprenticeship course.
how much do you earn per year, after paying all taxes. just need to get an idea how much a tradie earn.
I’d say anywhere between $60000-$90000 depending on how much overtime
Just to piggyback off the comment above, how much does an apprentice earn? You said that you were an apprentice for 4 so how much roughly would a first year apprentice earn and a final year apprentice? Is it relatively easy to find someone to take you as an apprentice?
There is two different wages you'd be class as when you start your apprenticeship
Junior wages - up to 21 years old
Mature wages - over 21 years old
Once you start as a junior apprentice, your wage will not suddenly change to mature rates when you turn 21. You are on junior wages until you complete your apprenticeship.
First year up to fourth year junior could earn anywhere between $400-900 gross a week without overtime
First year mature up to fourth could earn anywhere between $600-1200 gross a week without overtime
As usual, bigger companies tend to pay their worker's more money, but sometime you don't learn as much as smaller mobs where they rely on apprentices to get jobs done to help cut costs. It's not always the case
Figures are only rough estimates
who do you think will win the next election?
I don’t follow politics to be honest, other people on site is always blowing up about them but haha
I have some downlights in the bedroom and living room that mostly don't turn on but occasionally will work for brief period of time. I don't think it's the bulb as I replaced it and still didn't work.
Would I need to replace the fixture itself? Or is there something that should be checked before doing that? Lastly, Would I need an electrician to do any of the above?
I’d just replace the whole fitting itself, led down lights these days are so cheap and good quality. $5-$20 will get you a pretty decent one with tricolour(3000k,4000k,6000k) providing it is a 90mm down light that is, it’d be cheaper then sourcing out the part that is faulty. I remember leds about 6 years ago were about $60-100 ea!
You can check if your existing down light is hardwired or plugged into a socket by carefully pulling down the down light. If it is plugged into a socket, great! You just pull the lead off the socket and replace it with the new one (all new led down lights comes with leads these days.
If your down light is hard wired, you will need to call in an electrician to have it replace. He will install sockets at each light You’re replacing so any future replacements can be done yourself.
I do not condone DIY electrical work
If the downlights are on a dimmer and they are non dimmable that can cause them to not work or flicker.
I'd say it's more likely you have a broken active or neutral somewhere in that circuit that's causing this. You should have it checked out by a licensed electrician as this could be a fire hazard.
Not sure if you'd be able to answer without checking but you best guess is appreciated.
I have an ethernet port in one of the rooms but there is no 2nd port anywhere. The house has had NBN since built and the NBN modem is in the garage. I would have expected to see that 2nd ethernet port next to it so you could have a router connected to the Internet via the NBN modem inside the house. Why would anyone just install a single ethernet port?
If there's a Telstra/Optus/NBN box on side of your house it might run back there. Alternatively it could be joined in with the other cable. Pop the points off the wall, as there may be writing on them giving indication to where they go.
Maybe the Ethernet port in one of the rooms is also a modem point? That’s all I have..
How old is the house? It may not be connected to anything so pop it off and confirm. Could be an old/obsolete connection that's been disconnected and covered up at the other end. I had one of those at my house.
Likely this. 👍
I need to change my bathroom heater/light/fan because of a burnt bulb socket, is this as simple as take in and take out or do I need a qualified electrician to do it.
You’re going to need an electrician, I’m not sure how easy it is to source out the specific socket
Here in Australia you have to pay for a electrician to change a burned bulb light. It seems so stupid this culture of pay for everything.
Why do I have to pay if I can do the job myself knowing that for security reasons the main switch power has to be off???
That's not true, you do not have to be an electrician to replace a light bulb. It is still a good idea to have the main switch turned off.
I know that hahaha putting safety in the first place, the country I came from —- Brazil —- we do everything by ourselves since you know what you are doing of course. But here you have to pay for everything.
True or not, I am tired of hearing "ohhh you need an electrician to replace a light bulb" and things like that in so many different areas haha just makes no sense.
Well, it is not hard to don't believe that, in a country where you have to pay for the simplest job, and drivers don't know to change a flat tire without having to call the road assistance hahaha
Thanks for that.
Both systems have their pros and cons. Would you say electrical standards are higher here in Australia than Brazil. I believe at minimum people should be able to replace a power point or light fitting and have it certified by an inspector.
@Yawhae: How much do you think the inspector should charge to remove the outlet, inspect it then refit it?
If you don't mind, I can give some insight, as I work for a high voltage distribution company.
Depending on the voltage, the person won't just be your standard electrician. They'll be someone who the distributor has deemed to be authorised to operate on their network. Procedures will say to wear ankle to wrist fire retardant clothing.
The use of a fibreglass stick used in conjunction with natural fibre gloves (cowhide leather - definitely not any kind of synthetic materials) and an optional face shield, for the opening and closing of fused isolaters or has switches.