If you were in a rental and the owner told you he was selling the house

Lreleasethekr4cken on 20/08/2019 - 14:47

Hi all,

Got an email from the rental manager that the owner of the house I am renting (6 months into a 12 month lease) wants to come and inspect. We just had our inspection 3 weeks prior with the managing agent (who the owner is likely paying 10% to do this). Thought it was fishing so email the agent and asked what the owner wanted to look at in particular. They said the owner wanted to check what mulching and weeding needed to be done (this was nonsense as there were photos taken 3 weeks prior).

I took the day off to meet the owner. At the prearranged time the owner arrived with the co-owner of the agency (a selling agent). Owner confesses that he has been off work for a while and due to financial pressure he wants to sell the house. I say ok, as my girlfriend and I were looking at moving to another place after our lease was up anyway, this means we can accelerate that maybe and get out of this lease. Wrong. The owner asks that we don't move as soon as possible as settlement can take a while and he will be put under further financial pressure if it doesn't sell and we aren't renting.

I don't really want to live in a house where on 7 days notice I have to have it ready for strangers to be walked through the house. I am not saying I have double-enders and syringes out, it's more the opposite. I don't want some kid coming in with his parents and laying a greasy finger on my brand new acer predator X34 or a USB etc. When you have people coming through you stash anything loose that someone could boost. When I viewed this property and it was empty, it was raining, people walked muddy shoe-prints all through the house. The real estate agent didn't even clean it before I moved in (my fault, I didn't mind mopping as moving in causes a mess).

I guess it's part and parcel of renting. But I have emailed the agent asked for a month to month contract and texted the owner letting him know I emailed the agent, he's not happy because he thinks I am gone ASAP, but it took me months to find this place, I don't want to be left in a position where I need to accept a place or put stuff into storage or at a friends house while I get sorted.

What would you do?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 20/08/2019 - 14:56
    +7

    I'd do the same. If someone wants to change the contracted arrangements, then I would be equally entitled to renegotiate.

    The landlord cannot expect you to stay and be the cleanup for inspections and continue to pay rental up until settlement is complete at which time, you're expected to just disappear but not a moment sooner.

    I'd accommodate a couple of supervised inspections but I'd be asking for compensation for any further inconvenience.

  • dcep on 20/08/2019 - 15:01
    +13

    i would tell him to save on selling agent commission and offer him a deal to buy up his house at a bargain price.

  • p1 ama on 20/08/2019 - 15:02

    How long do you have left on your lease. Honestly, if the owner is only just looking at selling now, it'll probably be a week or two before anything even happens (they still have to do all the paperwork, get the listing done…etc., and it'll take a while for people to start getting interested).

  • HighAndDry on 20/08/2019 - 15:02
    +1

    Rental rights differ based on state. From memory, WA is fairly friendly in this regard, as from memory the landlord can't force you to vacate before the end of your fixed term even if they're selling (other states allow this, on various length notice periods).

    Randomly googled resource that looks to be accurate:

    https://www.vickiphilipoff.com.au/selling-tenanted-property-…

    Tenants are not required to vacate before the end of a fixed term agreement. If the property is sold before the end of the lease agreement, the new owners inherit tenants with the property, and are entitled to take over the rights and responsibilities of the Landlord – with current terms and conditions continuing until end of fixed term.

    But this only gives you leverage if the landlord (or rather, the purchaser) wants to buy the property and move-in, because then you can negotiate the conditions of you vacating before your fixed term is up (if you want to).

    If the buyer is happy to keep you on as tenants though, you have less leverage because you're still bound by your rental agreement, but there are limits to inspections. Another randomly googled resource that seems accurate:

    https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consumer-protection/privacy-a…

    they need to show the premises to prospective buyers, after giving reasonable notice in writing

    Entry can only occur between 8 am – 6 pm on a weekday, 9 am – 5 pm on a Saturday, or any other time agreed between you and the lessor.

    Tenants are entitled to be present at home opens for prospective purchasers or tenants.

    "Reasonable time" is vague, but 3-7 days is generally accepted to be the standard, with very maybe 14 days on the extreme high end. I'd personally be happy if there's 7 days' notice, it'd be quite hard to argue against that, and 3 days I personally wouldn't argue either, just because you may have to live with (figuratively speaking) the landlord for another 6 months.

    Find a lockable drawer/box/etc for the stuff you care about.

  • bobbified on 20/08/2019 - 15:20
    +7

    This happened to me too. I agreed to take it off the owner's hands before they even got to advertising it.

    It might sound bad, but knowing about the owner's financial situation allowed me to go hard with the negotiation. I like to look at it as helping them and them helping me. (I know they still made a tiny profit from my rent during the 13 months that they owned the property so that was good enough for my conscience).

    • HighAndDry on 20/08/2019 - 15:24
      +2

      Oh slick move. And honestly even with hard bargaining it's usually a win-win, so long as you find a way to skip the agent commission.

      OP: If you're thinking about this, ask about how long the owner's selling agency agreement with the current selling agent is. Then uh, plan accordingly.

      • qwerty on 20/08/2019 - 15:33
        +3

        Most people renting dont have the funds to buy the property

        • HighAndDry on 20/08/2019 - 15:42
          +3

          True, but I've actually come across a surprising number of people who were renting but had the money to buy - and were just beginning to or planning to look for properties.

          Not that common, but it's a rare case of a genuine win-win for both sides. Owner gets to avoid agent fees and a purchaser who already knows the property, and doesn't have to go through the trouble of marketing it. Renter/buyer has the benefit of getting a benefit (part of the agent's commission that's saved) and buying a property that they're already familiar with AND don't have to move house for.

          • releasethekr4cken on 20/08/2019 - 16:41
            +1

            @HighAndDry: Yeah, and I had thought about that, I haven't done my research on buying in the area. I'm placed fairly well to know how much interest is in it as people who inspect will need to make an appearance, I don't think there'd be many people throwing that much money without poking their nose inside.

            • HighAndDry on 20/08/2019 - 16:44
              +1

              @releasethekr4cken: Yeah - don't let this influence your decision of whether you'd buy in this area or this property in the first place. It's a good option if you're already considering buying.

              But if you are - you'd want to get in before prospective buyers come in and possibly make offers, because you'll lose your first mover advantage. At that point, the owner would have to choose between potentially a binding/unconditional offer, and your (very not-binding) promise that you'll buy after the agency agreement period expires.

            • Love a bargain on 21/08/2019 - 14:33

              @releasethekr4cken: If you wanna make an offer, it might be best to do it before the owner has even spent money on marketing (e.g. photos and advertising). That way, the agent can't interfere with "offers"/ "interests".

    • p1 ama on 20/08/2019 - 15:33
      +1

      It might sound bad, but knowing about the owner's financial situation allowed me to go hard with the negotiation. I like to look at it as helping them and them helping me.

      They got a guaranteed sale, didn't have to pay any fees, didn't have to fuss around with getting people in for inspection…etc. I don't know how much below market value you got it for, but if both sides are happy then both sides are happy - the owner didn't have to take your offer.

    • capslock on 20/08/2019 - 15:35

      OP says he will look for another place after the lease is up so he is probably not interested in buying the place.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 20/08/2019 - 15:27
    -2

    What does your rental agreement say, the answer on what your rights and obligations as a tenants is all there.

    • releasethekr4cken on 20/08/2019 - 16:43
      +4

      Yeah I know, I know my rights as a tenant. This was more an advice on how to conduct myself. I am well within my rights to deny entry as much as possible (7 days min notice of inspection) I could leave the house untidy for inspections etc but you need to remember the next real estate agent will be calling for a reference so some professional courtesy would apply.

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 20/08/2019 - 18:35
        -2

        IF you know your rights, which you assert, then you would know that there would be a section in the executed agreement which will talk about "what happens when the landlord wants to sell, how frequent the inspections can be, how many days notice they must give you etc".

        There will be nothing in that agreement that will say IF the landlord decides to sell, that the agreement will be voidable and you want the agreement changed <—— that's what YOU want (you are 6m into a 12m agreement and now you want the agreement to be month to month, if I was your landlord I would just ignore you (in fact, I'd probably tell the managing agent to not entertain any of changing ideas. You signed up for 12m in knowing the landlord can sell, anytime).

        Now what you can do, and the balls are in your court, play hard ball - be home and refuse entry (seen that happen when I wanted to view properties to buy) and get a poor reference, keep the house a little bit untidy if you must, also get a poor reference, and more importantly maybe asked to leave once your agreement ends by the new owners.

        Or the other option, suck it up and accept what you signed up for; present the house in a reasonable condition (I wouldn't go out of my way to make it fantastic looking and I say this as a landlord who has needed to sell with tenants in - wasn't a good idea. So my next investment, we kicked out the tenants and presented the property in showroom condition and got our money back and more). If you are concerned about theft, then be present, hide valuables, and if your worried about muddy shoes - then get your agent to tell people to take their shoes off. Again, been to house inspections where I had to take shoes off.

        Just popped into my head, if none of these suggestions work, you can break your fixed term agreement - there should be a break fee and given you are into the last 6 months, I guess maybe 4 weeks rent could be the break fee figure. That might work BUT can you find alternate accommodation THEN given vacating notices … may not work out financially better really.

  • k-rokfm on 20/08/2019 - 15:33
    +2

    Could you negotiate a lower rental fee for the annoyance of having to put up with open homes?

    • releasethekr4cken on 20/08/2019 - 16:43

      I can certainly ask, I hadn't thought of that, maybe I can scam a cleaner at least. Very helpful k-rokfm!

  • GG57 on 20/08/2019 - 15:38
    +2

    The current owner may sell it to another investor, who may be happy to retain you on your current lease.
    As others have said, you have rights as a tenant and the owner (and their agent) needs to work with you on those. That would include what is reasonable for open for inspections', ongoing tenancy, etc.

    If you are able to leave, and that is allowed for in your rental agreement, I wouldn't be hanging around just to be nice to the owner.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 20/08/2019 - 15:50

    Huh, doesn't your Landlord know he's likely to get a better selling price for selling with vacant possession?

    Unfortunately WA has more lax tenant laws than out east, so you'll have to negotiate with them.

    • releasethekr4cken on 20/08/2019 - 16:45

      What is average settlement, mine historically have been about 3 months. So assuming interest is slow and the inspections are dribs and drabs this could drag out until the end of the lease.

      I was hoping to switch to month to month agreement so that if something comes up I can move on it.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 20/08/2019 - 19:41

        I'm not well versed in WA. But they likely can and will hold you to the Lease. Other than the inconvenience of inspections (which appear they can do at any point with notice, wtf) nothing changes for you. You just pay the rent to someone else.

        It's common to negotiate out as usually a better price is obtained with vacant possession, and then the owner can display the house for photos, ads, inspections in any way they please to get the best price.

  • Tightpocket on 20/08/2019 - 16:56

    Happened to me, I decided to move anyway and not deal with people coming and going. I tried to help him by staying longer but when strangers coming over to inspect times and times again I just had enough and it really sucks since you have to watch them like a hawk and ensuring that your house is neat and tidy. I decided enough is enough I moved out within 3 weeks. the frequency of the prospective buyers inspecting the place happened too often.

  • frostman on 20/08/2019 - 17:09

    Just get the hell out of there, it's a sinking ship.

    Advise the Agent that given the news, you have started looking elsewhere due to work commitments and other personal circumstances - you cannot afford to be out looking for a rental unit with short notice.

    The next time you see a person come in for inspection, literally start packing up.

    • robbyjones on 20/08/2019 - 18:06
      +3

      If they still have 6 months on their lease, they can't just move on without the owner relinquishing them from the lease and it sounds like the owner won't do this given their financial status.

  • try2bhelpful on 20/08/2019 - 17:15

    I would be interested to know what the position would be if something is stolen, or broken, during an open for inspection. Is it covered under the tenants insurance or is it the estate agent, given they are showing the people through? I would also be concerned at people using the open for inspection to case the place. It might be time to start looking, and if you find something, then push to finish the lease. I wouldn’t worry too much about how tidy you have it. When I was looking at some places, when we were buying, they were often very untidy. However, if you do play ball I would be asking for a cleaner.

    • orangetrain on 21/08/2019 - 08:21

      If you're not there and it's stolen/broken, agent will blame you.

      • try2bhelpful on 21/08/2019 - 10:00

        Now that just sucks, they are the ones showing people through so it should be on them. Even if you are there you can’t be in every room at once.

        • orangetrain on 21/08/2019 - 12:48

          Yep. Use cameras. Report it to police. Only way.

          • trapper on 28/08/2019 - 15:24

            @orangetrain: Reporting to police doesn't get your item fixed or returned though.

  • Hiroko on 20/08/2019 - 19:05

    Not sure about Perth, but in Sydney iirc a standard rental agreement states 35 days notice to be served to the tenants when property is being sold.

    • jpl on 20/08/2019 - 21:34
      +1

      This is not correct for NSW. OP is in 6th month of a 12 month agreement, therefore the lease is fixed term, if OP live in NSW, the current and the new owner cannot serve the renter to leave. Unless the renter agrees to any compensation terms given.

      Fixed-term agreement
      The landlord cannot terminate your agreement for sale of the premises.

      • Hiroko on 21/08/2019 - 08:53

        oh my bad i missed that part.
        35 days is if not in contract.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 20/08/2019 - 22:37

      OP has clearly said the landlord doesn't want vacant possession.

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 21/08/2019 - 07:12

        the OP can break their lease and pay a break fee, but is unwilling to entertain that idea because it would cost them $$

        the OP actually wants to vary the lease agreement from a fixed 12 month term (in which they are half way through) to a month to month because of the upcoming sale, but nothing in the lease would say that an upcoming sale makes a lease rescindable

  • macfudd on 20/08/2019 - 19:49
    +1

    I went through that a couple of years ago, the property was slow to sell and we had open homes on and off for over 9 months. After the first few weeks I got a storage unit and moved most of my things in there and only kept out stuff I used daily. It was just easier than putting it all away twice a week or worrying about it getting stolen.
    Most annoying part was the agency would often tell us the wrong open home times/days or forgot to notify us entirely. I started monitoring the realestate.com listing after a few times of walking into the house after post-gym to find it full of people.

    I didn't make a fuss because I loved the place and wanted to keep living there. Plus I'd been there 8 years so couldn't risk getting a bad reference. But after all that the new owner wasn't after renters so we had to move out anyway.

    Next time I'd just move out asap.

  • tsunamisurfer on 20/08/2019 - 22:30

    I am not saying I have double-enders

    No household is complete without one.

  • Love a bargain on 21/08/2019 - 14:43

    Been though that, it's hell.

    The property was good enough as a rental but not something that I'd buy so moving was my only option. There were a few near misses and I didn't end up leaving until when the property was eventually sold (after a while - and that was when the market was good) and just before settlement.

    I'd say leave if you can but since you're in a fixed term lease, the owner is not required to agree to any amendment or early termination of your lease. However, the tenancy act (or other related legislation) might also give you some protection in terms of the number of inspections allowed each week, what constitute a reasonable time and how much notice you need to be given. You're well within your rights to deny entry if an inspection doesn't meet those requirements. You're required to make let them come through the property but you're not required to be nice to them or dress the place up for them.

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