Chiropractor Caused Severe Back Pain

Morning to All!

Firstly,i Couldn't sleep whole week properly and whole night tonight due to back pain and my whole week was nightmare

A month and a half ago i went to my local GP for some tests and a tiny pain(from inside the hip) which started after gaining 30 extra kgs(core of the problem).My GP adviced me to take a trip to Chiropractor(saying he/she was 'Real good') rather than paying 200+ bucks to see the interior drama thru MRI.(Big mistake)

After long resist of standing against this decision(approx 1+ month.A week ago i decided to give it a go…(BIGGEST mistake) and took and appo with the Chiro.

When i went there they gave a paperwork and at the back of it similar to saying "If we completely destroy your spine,leave you paralyzed or nerve damage etc etc(tones of other stuff),we are not responsible and here is your consent" and it was sort of shocking. I raised my concerns and i DID NOT sign the paper.So i did NOT consent to procedure whatsoever.

The receptionist at the place said "Ok" and when the Chiro called me in, i went and briefly after approx 3minutes talk which He didn't ask anything( if i have conditions anywhere or anything serious ) except if i had any broken bones and let me sit to table and poked back of my spine mumbling some of the spinal lumbers(L1-2-3-4-5 those thingies) and started the procedure straight on!!

I was not happy but at that moment i felt no pain.

Until (later i learned when i asked why the pain) he applied "Dry needling" to my back and did the leg crunchy painful movement.

Whole process took maybe 10minutes(with some hot towel&massage) and i had to pay money(as they stated).

At this stage,i haven't even given an explanation or a detailed paper on what procedure is done!

Less than 2hours,
I started having nerve pain,here,there and almost all the places he tweaked around.
The whole weekend was nightmare.My back started having PAIN constantly in different places!! Having pain in the areas i NEVER had any pain in my life.Nerve pain as well as BURNING sense of pain where he did the needle "treatment".i searched on Dry needle Side effects and didn't find good stuff.

1 week on, i went to see another GP who said it was complete pseudoscience and he stated it was too early for MRI scans for any damage to show(True or not?).

Damage report:

(NONE of these existed before except once a year tinitiny inside right hip when i sit for too long btw)

1-I have full motion of my spine but TONES of randomised nerve pain.Especially inside the hips.Sciatica kind of pain in BOTH.Very painful. Sometimes it pulses down to my leg.

2-Tail section is also in some form of pain

3-Under my Right Rib i got pain coming and going with motion.Which is painful and stressful.

4-Had a massive headache at the right side of my head for a few times.Which NEVER happened to me,Ever in my life.

5-Couldnt do almost any of the sports during whole week and feeling tired/weird.

6-Walking like my spine is going to somewhere rather then the place i want it to go(Very weird and hard to explain sense but NOT a good feeling at all!)

Questions for Experts:

0-Should i go to MRI asap today?Do fresh damages show up on MRI or my GP does not want to take it seriously?(i have pain but full motion,so he said yea yea yea,nah you are OK)

1-Any risk of permanent damages?

2-Burning sensation at the dry needling area,infection,inflammation?Is there a nerve damage,can it be visible in MRI from this Dry needling?(GP had no idea what it is)

3-Your Family/Friends experiences about this kind of "back wreckjustment"?Did they have the similar experiences? Did they get better or had pain etc?

4-How are these "Clinics" which are running on Complete Nutscience are legal? Some are doing almost live human experienced and no regulations??? IF i wanted to build&manufacture a ladder i need to go thru a wall high(literally) of AS standart and paperwork and these clinics can do inject solutions into human spine??

5-Should i do a legal stand or sit up or chin up? Will raise complaints here and there but i don't think they'll take it even seriously.

From what i experienced,looked up and learned this practice is complete Pseudoscience which does NOT have solid scientific base or proof.

Another VERY interesting thing is all these "Clinics" have COMPLETE 5 FULL star reviews on FB,Google etc. ZERO 1 star reviews…
Which was really interesting to see…

Years ago,i went with one of my friends to one of these chiros and he was asking my mate to bring him Xrays almost every week!!!!(crazy).He went for months and at the end,ended up in the specialist whom told to his face(i was with him as a company both times) that it was NOT a fix to get with Chiro as it was an unknown Autoimmune disease which attacked his joints and he had all the Rad from tonnes of Xrays and paid solid gold amount for nothing to all..

MS Paint will be supplied upon request with PG+18 access grant with OzBargainPremiumGold.

I'll be behind the screen reading answers but may delay answering them due to pain&sleepless night.
And i'll add updates as well if anyone wants?
Poll?
Donuts?

** TL;DR : ** How can we fight with the drought and help our farmers?

Update-1:

Thanks everyone for the contributions. I'll keep updating. I did a map,NO WHERE NEAR ACCURATE thou. Hard to tell exact pinpoint in this image due to not knowing how to count spine sections but marked them as much as i can.

https://imgur.com/9cFdOPO

A : The MOST painfull and pulsing pain section at the moment. Time to time Goes down to leg.
B : Where the Dry needling thingy happened. Although the pain is
lessened i feel pressure and pinching kind of feeling when laying flat

C: When laying Sideway or when doing movements(such as streching the left leg while sitting) combined with D it randomly has a nervy feeling(like dislocation) (Very hard to describe) but the pain is lessened and happenes very rarely.

D: Had Pain but improved.

E: Still Mild pain around this whole area overal.

I used whole V……n and after few hours i used a cream called D—p-H—t (I have hidden names of the products but they are from Woolies&Pharma non prescribed) and seemed to help a lot and improved.

Still thinking about MRI thou as B and A is no where near. B especially keeping me awake and feeling squashed(or under pressure) even when i lay flat…

Currently it seems to get better(ish) but nowhere near where i was before.

I read all the comments but may delay on answering and will keep on updating. Thanks to everyone of you.

Comments

  • +93 votes

    Do you have this story on paperback?

  • +32 votes

    1 week on, i went to see another GP who said it was complete pseudoscience and he stated it was too early for MRI scans for any damage to show(True or not?).

    This is correct.
    (1) Chiro is pseudoscience.
    (2) An MRI might not really help much at this stage. If you have to eventually go to a specialist, then they might ask you to go for an MRI. You can ask your GP for an X-Ray, and that might be enough to diagnose the problem.

    Sorry that your first GP gave you wrong advice & made your back pain worse. It's hard to find good doctors. I too, also got really bad advice from a few of my doctors, which worsened health conditions.

    •  

      Thanks. I'll now aim to get an MRI next week. GP stated 200+200(Approx 500) for back and lower back,separate costs out of pocket(Ouch). Currently it is both back&budgetwrecking combo for me which is not good at all.

      • +2 votes

        MRI is free if a referral is written by a specialist. Hopefully that helps you out a little.

      • +2 votes

        Need to do a clinical exam to see if there is any radiculopatjy, if so, may be able to do mri but a ct scan may be just as useful. I’d start with an X-ray but really, most back pain settles within 2-6 weeks. And yes, chiro is a pseudoscience.

        Gp here.

        Edit: sorry no mri rebate for back. Only neck.

        https://www.qldxray.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/MRI-Me...

        • -8 votes

          Radiculopathy, not radiculopatjy. I'd also be checking for diaphoresis, particularly in the palms, muscle rigidity, arrhythmia in case the immune system is stressed, [reading between the lines].

          • +1 vote

            @DisabledUser107584: Haha sure good for you, I was typing on my mobile

            Um arrhythmia for stress? Diaphoresis?

            Huh?

            Are you a medical or reading too much webmd? Those don’t seem relevant.

            • -11 votes

              @blergmonkeys: "Those don’t seem relevant"? Regrettably too many GPs would say the same.
              Sweating palms, heart flutter and tense muscles are all indicators of stress, a psychological condition that may manifest itself in physical symptoms. Most people have a 'weak point' where those symptoms are reported. OP mentions lower back pain and headaches, along with a few other symptoms that do not seem related to the initial complaint or the subsequent treatment by the Chiropractor. Focusing too much on the detail can sometimes lead you to miss the big picture.
              Apologies to the OP for discussing you as if you were an absent party. I am not minimising your issues in any way.

              • +9 votes

                @DisabledUser107584: And this is exactly why unqualified people shouldn’t give advice.

                First, arrhythmias are not usually caused by anxiety. Rarely in fact. Anxiety may cause a transient tachycardia but that’s not really relevant.

                Second your focus on anxiety would hopefully be addressed as part of discussing the pain op is experiencing during the consult. First, pathology needs to be excluded with further diagnostics and relevant clinical examination. The anxiety aspect would come out naturally in the conversation and my usual advice for folks with pain and anxiety is mindfulness with yoga and screening for signs of depression.

                You are, in fact, minimizing the op’s pain by suggesting it is due to anxiety without any other information and interjecting with largely useless clinical signs that aren’t relevant or would not help with solving the op’s problem.

                But go ahead, I suppose you know more than I do based on your googling and terrible understanding of physiology.

                • -16 votes

                  @blergmonkeys: I agree that unqualified people should not give advice. You are not a cardiologist (or an electrophysiologist). I invite you to have a look at Buckley and Shivkumar's work on stress-induced cardiac arrhythmias. It's a useful study on the interaction between heart and the brain.
                  I have not focused on anxiety. In fact that was the first time I used the word.
                  I agree with the yoga recommendation and I have already made that suggestion to the OP, but I am always cautious about recommending mindfulness as there is evidence that it can increase anxiety for a number of psychological and physiological reasons, so it needs to be 'supervised'.
                  I have not made any diagnosis of the OP's pain and I certainly don't expect to have minimized it by discussing the overall subject on here. If only pain management was so easy.

                  • +9 votes

                    @DisabledUser107584: You are definitely not qualified to be giving medical advice. Please stop.

                    If you are a med student, I would advise you to have a slice of humble pie. If not, I would recommend you become one so you can learn appropriate diagnostic and clinical skills rooted in an understanding of physiology.

                    In medicine, we have a saying that says ‘don’t call a horse a zebra’. You’re trying to make yourself sound smart by pointing out obscure articles that have non specific correlations to the situation. No doctor would go to thinking about arrhythmia in a pt with back pain and the reason is it’s not relevant unless the history or exam indicates so.

                    Yes, I am not an electrophysiologist but I guarantee I know more about the conduction pathways of the heart and underlying aetiologies of arrhythmias than you. This is not a brag, but a given since I have studied these things for 10+ years.

                    • -10 votes

                      @blergmonkeys: Relax and take some deep breaths. The only advice that I have given is to practice yoga: exactly the same as you said you would. It is many years since I first stepped over the threshold of a highly respected European medical school. The first year in those days was dedicated to anatomy and physiology and at my six months progress review I was delighted to read that I had a 'well developed "PA", despite my limited study'. I shared my delight with a year 5 student in the bar who laughed his head off. 'PA' stood for "Professional Arrogance". It didn't take me long to discover that I could not survive on four hours sleep a night so I specialised as soon as I could. I hope that all traces of my PA went many years ago.

        •  

          Thanks! I have previous CT scans(From a stomach problem) of upper-body. I have no idea if the bones are involved in the scan or not?(Sorry,complete lack of knowledge here). Can they be used as reference if there is a damage? Can a CT be compared to MRI or do i need another CT? (I'm just not happy about the Rads)

          BTW,i really liked the support and i hope i'll be better within 2-6 weeks! I love GPs like you who give positive vibes and support!

          I updated the post and now using some products from Woolies and Pharmacy which helped but only time will tell. (Points A and B are still not good thou)

          •  

            @100000000A0000000001: Probably not because they would have presumably been done before this incident and, further, wouldn’t have included the lumbar spine which is where your pain likely originates.

            You need to get to a decent gp. Ask around the community where you live for this. If you can find one specializing in sports med, that would be better but not necessary as your presentation is quite common. In the meantime, do some yoga and meditation. Yoga by adrien on YouTube is great for at home workouts.

  • +13 votes

    I don't think the Chiro can get you to sign that. They are under ahpra and that's illegal. They have/must have professional indemnity insurance. Report them to ahpra.

    • -6 votes

      I used to have to sign that paper too when I saw chiros years ago but if I recall correctly it is only in regards to if they accidentally cause a stroke or break your neck when they crack your neck joints they must of expanded it to include your whole body.

      Honestly, any health practitioner worth his/her salt should provide a NO FIX ~ NO PAY service with a WE BREAK ~ WE PAY guarantee. How else are patients meant to trust and have faith in a health professional if health professionals themselves don't completely trust and believe in themselves to do a job right?

      • +2 votes

        With nearly other repair you have proof - broken window - fixed window can take photo, car not working - car working can make video

        Dodgy patients would get free service and say it didnt work

        • -4 votes

          Are you sure it's not the same with medical conditions? HIV infected - HIV clear, diabetes positive - diabetes negative, broken arm - fixed arm. Aren't there tests that prove disprove most health complaints these days including mental illness?

          • +8 votes

            @Warier: Absolutely not, especially when it comes to mental illness.

          • +2 votes

            @Warier: There's a significant number of illnesses where the majority of cases are managed and not treated.

            Theoratically, if doctors can treat diabetes, (ie make a diabetes positive into a negative), how can a doctor guarantee the patient is going to follow the prescribed diet and exercise?

            If a patient has a broken arm and I unbrokened it, the patient loses mobility because they didn't follow the exercises, should I also declare my services free?

            • -2 votes

              @tshow: Interesting, whenever I've broken or fractured any bones I've always been told by the GP there is nothing they can do - just rest it and it will heal itself.

              So, why do you ask money for unbreaking someone's arm when the unbreaking is done naturally through resting it and not by the GP themselves?

              Maybe it is just for the privilege of a consultation with you?

              My mechanic never charges a consultation fee when I take my car in for a problem like I did the other day because of an oil leak. He looked over the car for free then gave me a quote on how much it would cost to fix the problem because unlike a broken arm he would actually need to provide the unbreaking service which would actually take 3 hours of his time.

              •  

                @Warier: Depends on the break, buddy. If undisplaced and not angulated immobilisation is fine. If angulated, displaced, or open I'd want an orthopaedic surgeon to look at it - privilege or not.

              • +1 vote

                @Warier: Depends on whether the fracture self reduced or was displaced in the first place, whether it is compound of simple, if it is weight bearing…

                If you were to come to me for a consult, I wouldn't attempt to educate you, I'd simply tell you the diagnosis and if there's treatment required, you sign a form, otherwise I'd tell you to go home and rest. That doesn't mean my knowledge is limited to what you've been exposed to.

                Read up on Dunning Kruger. Many of your comments demonstrate this concept elegantly.

                •  

                  @tshow: So, do you still charge a fee if no treatment is required?

                  The fact that modern medicine is mostly palliative because of the inability of doctors to treat/cure the majority of cases seen would be a better example of the Dunning Kruger effect…

                  •  

                    @Warier: Lol. Sure.

                  • +1 vote

                    @Warier:

                    any health practitioner worth his/her salt should provide a NO FIX ~ NO PAY service

                    That's a ridiculous idea. I understand your intent, but it shows you don't understand the scope of practice of most health professionals.

                    People come to health professionals for all kinds of reasons other than just "fix this". They come for assessment, advice, diagnosis, self-management strategies, prevention, etc.

                    With treatment there's no guarantee something will work, and people are reasonable enough to understand when a trial and error approach is warranted. Successful therapy also may depend heavily on the client's co-operation e.g. do they do their exercises or take their medication.

                    Also consider the field of rehabilitation - at what point should therapists get paid, if it's likely to take weeks or months to achieve goals?

                    do you still charge a fee if no treatment is required?

                    Would you only pay for an x-ray if something is broken? A health professional is using their time, knowledge and experience to assist.

                    If you injure yourself in football and want to know if you've retorn your meniscus, would you expect someone to examine you for free?

                    The fact that modern medicine is mostly palliative because of the inability of doctors to treat/cure the majority of cases

                    This part is actually true but not really relevant here. But you're right, chronic diseases are on the rise and are essentially symptom managed.

                • -2 votes

                  @tshow: BTW There's actually a reason why GP's can't treat or fix the majority of cases they see unlike a mechanic can easily repair or fix any car bar the few that are write offs. The human body, unlike a synthetically produced car, is something that is natural not artificial.

                  You can't expect to use a synthetic repair process or synthetic chemical drug on the natural body to restore it back to its natural state. A synthetic repair process works on a synthetic car because it was synthetic to begin with.

                  The only way to restore the injured body back to its natural state is to do it naturally.

                  Rest is the natural treatment for disorders such as broken bones from physical activity.
                  Fruit is the natural treatment for disorders such as diabetes caused by consuming junk processed food.
                  Oxygen is the natural treatment for lung disorders caused by breathing in polluted air.
                  Shade is the natural treatment for disorders caused by excessive exposure to light.
                  Cold is the natural treatment for burns and disorders caused by heat.
                  Silence is the natural treatment for disorders caused by excessive exposure to loud sound.

                  The natural body will regenerate automatically by itself naturally if it is placed in to the appropriate natural environment corresponding with whatever unnatural disorder it is suffering from.

                  •  

                    @Warier: … and that's why I wouldn't bother explaining anything to some patients.

                    You seem to think you know how medicine works with your brochure knowledge of the human body.

                    You can rest as much as you want but if I don't reduce and fixate your broken bones, you'd probably die or end up a cripple.

                    And a diabetic on a fruit diet, well, I'm always happy to amputate.

      • +3 votes

        The no fix-no pay system would not work. You know why? Because most people come and see practitioners for pain and pain is subjective. Pretty much anyone could get free treatment just by pretending their pain hasn't improved when it has.

        Also, the same treatment doesn't work on everyone. Person A with back pain might respond really well with Pilates exercise whilst person B who presents with the exact same symptoms might regress with the same exercises. So despite a clinican trying to help, it might not always work and it's not fair that a clinician has put in all the time and effort not to get paid.

        Treatment is not as black and white as you think.

    •  

      I think signing disclaimers / informed consent is reasonably common now. I had to sign one for ear cleaning.

      • +3 votes

        To sign something to say they won't be at fault is a no go for ahpra. I've talked to them.

        Informed consent, yes sure.

        2 different things.

      • +2 votes

        Liability waivers are not permissible (some exceptions apply, ie minor things that patients want to do but you're adamant you're not supportive but they throw the whole "but I'm already anaesthesized, please please please" and you're like, "okay, fine… but I can't guarantee no scars".)

    •  

      More interesting part of it is receptionist said —Just Sign Behind—- it and i said —I need to read it before i sign it—-(Doh!). It was like a rushed-up situation. After reading all the fine print,i rejected signing it and she said Ok,I'll ask Chiro

    •  

      they can ask you to sign anything they want. you dont have to sign. its called freedom of choice.

    •  

      i believe they want people to sign it to safe guard their backs. Hospitals as well have similar procedure. I had a friend who had surgery last year and they let him sign a paper(stating that he agrees the procedure and if things go south they won't be liable.) at his first visit. Hospitals are totally different League thou and they'd never get near the psudoclinics.

      • +1 vote

        i believe they want people to sign it to safe guard their backs

        Looks like they are more interested in safeguarding their backs than yours:b

  • +2 votes

    It seems the issue is with the gp sending you to the wrong place? Trying to fix a problem with the wrong solution.

    I've been to a chiro and it solved my problem. Whether it's bs or not. For myself, proper posture and stretching before my problem got worse prevented me from seeing the chiro again, which he told me.

    • +2 votes

      If the Chiro solved your problem then why the need for proper posture and stretching before the problem gets worse? How could the problem get worse if the problem is solved?

      • +2 votes

        I may have not explained it properly.

        I had a sore neck & back. I visited a chiro for around 3 sessions & during it, he did his procedures. In the meantime, he instructed me to do stretches, proper posture while driving, standing, sleeping etc. The stretches would have helped my problem more than his treatment but I still did feel that his treatment helped a little. Now i continue to stretch & watch my posture, which is still difficult. The problem hasn't gotten worse.

        • +2 votes

          This is the problem with not just Chiros but also the more mainstream providers like physios.

          You saw a good one who did what they do for the most part - gave you temporary relief from your pain. He however then taught you how to stretch and maintain proper posture etc in order to keep the issues at bay, that's where you really end up resolving your issues.

          It's similar to when you go to a physio, they'll give you a massage but the real value is in the fact they've diagnosed you and instructed on how to rehab your particular issue.

      • +2 votes

        because humans suck, we dont walk properly, we dont sit properly, we dont do anything naturally

        You ever see people with bad posture ie hunchback from working on computers, they've been told to change it but they can't their body is use to that position. A Chiro, or just a Physio help relaxes that area and get movement back in. This allows you to more easily get into that posture, stretching helps you sustain it.

        Then there are people like me who are just fked… ie mild to moderate scoliosis. I've seen my xrays, my spine is constantly trying to twist. Chiropractors keeps it bay. IF I maintain good posture and continually do my stretches, I probably only need to see them once-twice a year. But I like most people don't and see them once a month

        I've gone through 2-3 year periods where I havent seen a chiropractor and stopped doing my exercise. My body slowly fall aparts, and all of a sudden I lose the entire feeling on one site.

        I go back to thr Chrio, get Xrayed, surprise surprise my back has twisted even more.

        What the Op has described is a hack, the cracking manipulation of your back is a very minor part of the exercise definitely not a 10min process. The area has to be relaxed and warmed up first.

        Most decent chiropractors will have multiple beds, you come in and you lay down for 10-15mins to slowly relax your body first.

        I see Physio and Chiros.

        I've had a Physio who has awards up the wazoo, one day I saw him use Chriopractor techniques on a patient, he warmed her up for 30mins before he did anything. There was no loud crack because he had the time to do what was needed, there was small pop, that was it. I've only had 2 Chiropractors who were able to do the manipulations without the loud crack, both had me for an hour.

        Do you know what the surgeons who do back surgery say about back surgery… they say they'll try anything and everything before getting a back operation.

  • +32 votes

    Chiro is indeed pseudoscience
    There is good reason why hospitals don’t employ chiros
    Anecdotal evidence that will undoubtedly be espoused here is not worth heeding
    Look at the scientific literature
    Avoid chiros, go to a physiotherapist instead
    Lose weight and I guarantee your pain will improve

    For now I’d document your signs and symptoms, go get an MRI, rest, go see a physio

    Good luck!

    •  

      Thanks! I actually started loosing weight with exercises and had no pain whatsoever after loosing some kgs(approx 2). I hope the damages are temporary and will disappear in time. I tried exercising(just 15mins very ultralight warm-up) yesterday and had severe pain. 2nd GP stated i shouldn't do exercises for sometime.

      • +2 votes

        Your GP is partially correct.
        I would say see a physio that have hydrotherapy facilities.
        This will at least help you move and increase circulation through your body. If you remain inactive for too long you’ll experience atrophy throughout the body, and increased muscle/joint stiffness; adding to your pain/discomfort.

        •  

          Cheapest place/s for Hydrotherapy?(Is it the thread mill inside the water tank?) How much does it cost?

          If you remain inactive for too long you’ll experience atrophy throughout the body, and increased muscle/joint stiffness; adding to your pain/discomfort.

          I Completely agree on this.

        •  

          Edit : Dublicate Post

    • -2 votes

      yep. good advice. ignore anacdotal evidence. cant belive peoples actual experience. must rely on scientific literature alone… because that would never be dihonestly influenced

      •  

        The problem with chiropractic is not that the scientific literature is dishonestly influenced, it's that it's practically non-existent. When the practice has been around for more than a century, that should be a red flag.

  • +8 votes

    "Lose weight and I guarantee your pain will improve"

    Best advice in this thread so far.

    Chiro works for MANY people, but not for everyone and not every condition. Allopathic works for some people and some but not all conditions too. The BEST a person can do is to lose weight and exercise, it might not cure everything but you'll be a lot healthier and happier. For all of allopathic medicines accomplishments in acute care, the death rate remains unchanged at 100%. :)

    • +1 vote

      For all of allopathic medicines accomplishments in acute care, the death rate remains unchanged at 100%. :)

      The death rate will always remain at 100% as everyone will die!
      However, you might have read in the papers that people are living longer now. Maybe allopathic medicine has something to do with it. There's much that medicine (everything that actually works gets incorporated into 'allopathic' medicine) cannot do. However, it can do a great deal in acute and chronic care settings.

  • +3 votes

    lol thread of the year

    • +26 votes

      After you've been to the osteopath, you'd also want to try a naturopath.

      When it all falls apart, a shaman is next.

      Doctors and chiropractors have been at war for decades.

      Scientist and flat-earthers have also been at war. So many differing opinions, everyone should just live their truth.

      •  

        After you've been to the osteopath, you'd also want to try a naturopath. When it all falls apart, a shaman is next.

        Lol. Then combined Shamanopathropractoraist is next maybe…

        •  

          Done.

          I'm that.

          Ps. On second thought, I think I'm going to be Prof Dr <Insert Name>, PhD Shamanopractorologist

    • +13 votes

      I am going to disagree with you

      No need for x-rays - they are useful predominantly for bony problems (eg fractures). If anyone tells you that you have a disc or nerve problem based on an x-ray, they are lying. You can only tell the height of a disc based on an x-ray. More often than not, people are often overprescribed imaging by chiros as a way to be told their hips/back our out of alignment but in reality NO ONE has perfect alignment and this is unlikely to cause symptoms in most cases.

      The best thing to determine the cause of pain is actually for the clinician to be thorough with questioning your symptoms and to perform physical tests. Often even things like MRIs even though they are detailed, don't often correlate with symptoms. For example, if we put a group of 40 year olds with no back pain in an MRI 50% would have a disc bulge. See this blog post for a quick explanation on this study http://markgibsonphysio.com/2015/01/30/imaging-findings-in-a...

      • +6 votes

        Xray to show a disc bulge lol.

        I'll tell you guys a secret.

        Chiros get you to do an x-ray, to show that your spine is bent, ie scoliosis. Even a small amount (ie, within normal limits) they will diagnose you with scoliosis. That's the trick. That freaks you out, the evidence is in your hands, you continue with their treatment plan for life.

        BUT, here's the big but, we are human beings. We are imperfect. As long as you are within normal limits, you are normal.

        Dr. Scam artists

        • +1 vote

          That didn't happen to me. My Chiro said my back was fine and my pain went away.

        • +7 votes

          mbck - hit the nail on the head!

          Also the reason why the Australian Government removed chiros from being able to be able to refer for whole spine x-rays under the MBS - because they were doing way too many unecessarily!

          https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Cont...

        • +2 votes

          I completely agree with you. Also, they have ZERO scientific proof as well. Not to mention, the movements they do as far as i researched can cause actually SERIOUS injury. One page i found was stating the Neck adjustment was a similar technique that used by soldiers to break necks and kill people. One wrong mistake by Chiro and client is gonesky.

          •  

            @100000000A0000000001: LOL, You should see how Chinese Hospitals deal with back-pain. They don't think like you, and draw on thousands of years of experience from many aspects, inc. martial arts. There are lazies and charlatans on all sides, however many people get great relief from chiros and people are not being paralysed by their practitioners at any noteworthy rates despite the dangerous procedures, drugs and surgeries that get decided on as means to 'having a go' with 'what little they know'.

            Someone I know was diagnosed by two specialists over 5 years to have spondylitis (it took a year or more to decide on AS). From the start the docs told him he'd have have to manage the (already chronic) pain from that point on and eventually when it gets impossible to manage they'd operate to fuse his lower vertebrae. He was exercising as advised, increasingly pain killers that made him soporific and becoming unable to function. He'd had numerous x-rays, examinations, and an MRI by the time he turned 26. In pain the whole time, he was often unable to sit or stand.

            Just before going in for surgery he went to a Chiro, who sent him for another MRI. The next week the Chiro isolated where the problem was and did a massive back-crack. After 3 days there was no pain and has been perfectly fine ever since.

            But… he wasn't overweight before or after (he had to walk a lot to shed the weight gained during), nor was he unfit or suffering from other problems, as so many are. If older or overweight before hitting his difficulties his options may not have stayed open so long.

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        X ray shows a twisted back,

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        Gp here. This is patently wrong.

        There are many uses for an X-ray in differentiating the causes of back pain.

        https://www.racgp.org.au/afpbackissues/2004/200406/20040601y...

        • +3 votes

          For trauma, malignancy, certain conditions like ankylosing spondylitis, but usually not for disc pathology or acute mechanical back pain.

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            @solidweiner: Arthritis, spinal stenosis and foraminal intrusion. Pathological lordosis and scoliosis.

            It’s an initial diagnostic test that can be utilized to formulate further differentials. It’s a first line like a chest X-ray for cough. It gives a clinical indicator on whether further testing needs to be done or an underlying pathology is overtly evident (thus sometimes negating the need for more costly or invasive scanning such as ct or mri).

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