PayPal Says I Have to Pay Return Postage for Damaged Goods

knr21 on 04/09/2019 - 16:46
Last edited 05/09/2019 - 14:32 by 1 other user

So I purchased an item from China and it arrived damaged, the seller wouldn't give me refund until i paid for the item to be shipped back so I went to PayPal to go thru the resolution center, they have sided with me for the refund but have sided with the seller that I have to pay for the shipment back before I get the full refund of the item. Now the item is $65 but to ship it back (the seller will only accept 2 types of courier UPS or DHL) is going to cost me $90+. would it be fair that the seller needs to pay for the shipping back to them if the item arrived damaged, I understand if you change your mind and you were just returning it but it arrived damaged. I have contacted the ACCC but PayPal said that they will close the case if I don't submit the tracking details by the 8th September. I know I should let it go but now its about my principles! Any suggestions to help me win this case? PayPal is just stock standard answering me

Update: after emails back and forward with PayPal, some human actually answered my questions in regards to shipping and posted how PayPal will compensate for the postage up to a certain amount and alsao confirmed that I can use Australia a Post for it.
Thanks for the help and the suggestion of Chargeback and also the link to were PayPal helps with postage.
PS He is actually a she :)

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Comments

  • oscargamer on 04/09/2019 - 16:52
    +4

    ACCC and ACL have no jurisdiction over items purchased from China.

    You have to comply with PayPal or you get nothing

    • Almost Banned on 04/09/2019 - 17:47
      -6

      Nope.
      The location of the item is not the determining factor.
      The critical issue is what is the "proper law" of the contract.
      That will depend on a number of factors but, in essence, is generally the law with the closest and best connection with the transaction.
      Depending on OP's circumstances, that could be Australia, it could be China, it could even be somewhere else.
      The bigger problem is, and always is, with enforcement.

        • Almost Banned on 04/09/2019 - 23:53
          +1

          Right - hence the last line of my post…

      • Almost Banned on 04/09/2019 - 23:55
        +1

        You know this site has truly gone to shit when 7 people think their ignorance is more valid than s. 67 of the ACL…

        • Almost Banned on 04/09/2019 - 23:55
          +1

          Make that 8

          • lolz112 on 05/09/2019 - 00:43

            @Almost Banned: Lol how about instead of assuming everyone else is wrong you consider that maybe you could be wrong?

            From my brief reading of s67 (not a lawyer) the valve decision is widely different to a seller that is based in China and uses eBay to trade to Australian consumers. It's pretty much the same as buying from a company who is overseas where ACL wouldn't apply.

            The ACCC has no jurisdiction over a Chinese e-commerce store. They could literally ignore what the ACCC says and the ACCC would be powerless to do anything.

            • Clear on 05/09/2019 - 09:33

              @lolz112: Not to mention the ACCC do not investigate reports from individuals either ;)

            • Almost Banned on 05/09/2019 - 11:13

              @lolz112: While I agree broadly with most of what you have said - and none of it really conflicts with my post - there is potentially a big difference to the outcome of the choice of proper law to dealing with a seller through ebay.com.au and dealing with a seller through randomseller.com.cn.
              The OP didn't specify the marketplace he used to buy - only that he used Paypal.

  • garetz on 04/09/2019 - 16:54
    +3

    You have the option of doing a charge back also.

    • vikvance on 04/09/2019 - 17:01

      Not a good idea, if OP plans on buying anything using PayPal ever again. They will likely end up getting blacklisted by PayPal.

      • cynicalmike on 04/09/2019 - 18:59

        i'm just curious, can paypal blacklist you completely via name/address/DOB/bank account or just with the credit card you used? ie. just create another paypal account with a different card/card number?

    • knr21 on 05/09/2019 - 09:21

      I have rung my bank and they have put in request for full refund as PayPal accepts that I should get the full refund but pay for shipping. See what happens.

  • 87percent on 04/09/2019 - 17:01

    Maybe see if you can partially claim the refund through PayPal's free return shipping policy?

      • Quantumcat on 04/09/2019 - 17:50

        Only covers up to $45 from memory

        • TheBooleanOne on 04/09/2019 - 18:56

          I would be curious if he can ship it back with tracking for under $45 with a different provider. Wouldn't be hard if DHL and UPS are quoting $65

    • knr21 on 05/09/2019 - 09:23

      Said I was happy for a partial refund as what was damaged I could use it for something else. It was a 3D moon light lamp, so could have still used it as a moon in my kids room but it would light up. T Hey refused and wanted to give full refund.

  • HighAndDry on 04/09/2019 - 17:25
    +1

    but have sided with the seller that I have to pay for the shipment back before I get the full refund of the item.

    Even by the ACL, this interpretation is correct. You pay for the item to be shipped back. Once it's confirmed it's the seller's liability, only then do they (according to the ACL) refund you that postage cost.

  • Quantumcat on 04/09/2019 - 17:53
    +9

    the seller will only accept 2 types of courier UPS or DHL

    The seller shouldn't get a say, all you have to do is provide proof that it was returned.

    If you don't want to go the chargeback route but still want to be unethical you could send them a registered letter with tracking instead of the item. You might get nothing if the seller convinces PayPal you sent them nothing but in that case you're only out an extra $20 or however much it costs you to send the registered letter.

  • EightImmortals on 04/09/2019 - 18:00
    +1

    Ask the seller to send you a con note from UPS or DHL at the same rate he used to send you the parcel, offer to pay THAT rate.

    • orangetrain on 04/09/2019 - 18:21

      I'm curious what shipping option OP used and how much it costs.

    • knr21 on 05/09/2019 - 09:25

      Suggested that also, the seller has been very difficult

      • EightImmortals on 05/09/2019 - 09:26

        OKies. Was he selling through a website where you can leave feedback?

        • knr21 on 05/09/2019 - 09:33

          don't know, will have to go and check and leave a feedback. Thanks

  • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2019 - 18:05
    +2

    Buying from overseas has its issues, many people do not realise that it is cheaper to import items but if there are any problems then it is a major headache.

    • Soluble on 04/09/2019 - 18:14

      The few times I have had issues the seller has sent me a replacement at no cost. I guess it depends where you buy from.

  • TheBooleanOne on 04/09/2019 - 18:50
    +3

    Sorry to hear this, it sounds pretty unreasonable to me.

    You mention the seller will only accept those couriers, but what about PayPal? Ask PayPal what they accept and then use the cheapest, slowest method with tracking. They're the ones who will decide on the refund, not the seller.

    Also, what platform did you buy it on? Neg the hell out of that seller!

    • knr21 on 05/09/2019 - 09:27

      mentioned the courier situation several times with the same copy and pasted answer but no direct answer about the courier.

  • SJ50 on 04/09/2019 - 19:16

    Did seller sent product using DHL or UPS?

    • knr21 on 05/09/2019 - 09:34

      Australia Post delivered it, so probably not

      • SJ50 on 05/09/2019 - 10:10

        so send it through registered post through Australian post and claim postage from paypal.

  • ihbh on 04/09/2019 - 19:19

    Can you give a general description of what you bought.

    • knr21 on 05/09/2019 - 09:27

      It was a 3D moon light lamp

  • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2019 - 19:47
    +1

    Bit of a legal scam to prevent returns. I bought some fragile LCD panels and they were sent in a bare plastic bag with no protection and arrived shattered. I felt stupid spending $30+ shipping completely broken junk back. They said it never arrived. You are doomed either way. If you don't have it tracked they just can say it never arrived. If you do have it tracked, it costs more than the item. Neg and move on.

    • elgrande on 04/09/2019 - 21:26

      I remember that post

      • [Deactivated] on 04/09/2019 - 23:05
        +1

        OK, I'll move on. :) If a buyer receives a broken item, should they report it as item not received as the outcome is better?

  • brendanm on 04/09/2019 - 20:43
    -1

    Call PayPal and explain the situation.

  • hikaru78 on 04/09/2019 - 20:43

    Find someone who has a dhl account and ships stuff regularly. Their rate will be significantly cheaper than a one off

  • leiiv on 04/09/2019 - 21:53

    You can still get free return with paypal right?

    • Quantumcat on 05/09/2019 - 08:12

      They only reimburse up to $45

  • MatthewTeng on 04/09/2019 - 21:58

    If you go to a duty free shop (with a Chinese owner) they often have contacts for really great postage prices. I can't remember the name of the service though. May also need the receiver to upload their national ID card scan.

    I know it doesn't answer the question, but it's good information.

  • RandomFox on 05/09/2019 - 02:29
    +3

    I've been in this situation enough times here's what you do.

    First off I agree this is wrong of PayPal however they do have free returns, in short it's up to $45 per return and 8 returns each year and a painless process and free.

    https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/returns

    "the seller will only accept 2 types of courier UPS or DHL"
    This is bogas they really don't have much say. Australia post ship internationally and will track till delivered as this is all PayPal really requires. A small item using one of aus post small boxes it cost me somewhere around $30 standard shipping that you can claim back, just don't lose that receipt or take a picture of it as soon as you have it as a fail safe.

    There's even a decent chance the package will come back to you and even if they decline the package and it comes back you will still get all your refunds.

    • knr21 on 05/09/2019 - 09:40

      Thanks for the link, it states that "You must follow all return instructions and policies of the seller" so it is still going to cost $90+ to return it as I have to use the 2 courier that the seller has told me to use, still not worth sending back if that is the case.

      • RandomFox on 06/09/2019 - 03:36

        Honestly sounds like their making things more difficult for you, I never noticed it mentioning that so apologies.

        I gave a "quick" look at the PayPal Refunded Returns Service General Conditions of Use and if you think your still %100 eligible after giving it a read for the refund of the shipping cost going through aus post and don't care about the item id personally id ship it anyways if you still can, most the stuff is all automated so you probably will be fine.

        • knr21 on 06/09/2019 - 14:01
          +3

          Thanks RF - PayPal came back to me and confirmed that I can use any courier company I like, just have to send them photos and tracking details and then fill out paper work for PayPal to refund me. It took 6 emails from them for someone who knew what they were talking about to give me a proper answer not just a copy and paste from a list. :)

          • RandomFox on 06/09/2019 - 21:49

            @knr21: Great to hear, I've had my fair share of ridiculous emails where it felt like I was talking to people/robots who didn't understand too.

  • davidem on 05/09/2019 - 07:37
    +1

    I ordered a $60 item and paid by Paypal. (Wireless reversing camera).
    Item received was not as described (wired $20 item).
    Same scenario-send back via same quoted options by OP.
    I ended up sending back via Australia Post Registered post for ~$20.
    Paypal accepted this, refunding both purchase price and postage.

  • HeWhoKnows on 05/09/2019 - 07:48

    Ring up PayPal
    Usually they will organiuse a return postage label

    • Quantumcat on 05/09/2019 - 08:13

      No they won't. You are thinking of eBay.

  • datafellows on 05/09/2019 - 08:52
    +1

    In most of the Chinese gift shops you can post stuff to China. Costs varies $12-15 per kg. Takes about 1-2 weeks to arrive back to China and you get tracking.

    EMS is the best choice IMO.

    Worth to check it out :)

  • wannagrababargain on 05/09/2019 - 13:56

    You took a risk of engaging in international commerce outside the domestic consumer protections afforded by Australian law. I am guessing the potential payoff from the risk taken was a susbtaintally cheaper price for the goods than you could source locally, with the pontential downsides of the risk coming to bear now when something goes wrong and you're on your own. You can't really have it both ways. It's just you and the other guy negotiating an acceptable comprimise to both parties, with Paypal acting as an intermediary. Paypal is not going to further than your original negotiations ended at. Now that you've gone and waved the "big Paypal stick" in the sellers face, of course he's going to be standoffish and unhelpful and demand DHL.

    • knr21 on 05/09/2019 - 14:00

      I had actually was emailing the seller for a week in regards to the damaged goods and they kept on telling me the same thing of me paying for the shipment and they give me refund, hence why I went thru PayPal.

  • [Deactivated] on 06/09/2019 - 22:21
    -1

    Off topic, but to OP's and commenters alike, consider formatting your mini-novels so that they are easier to read.
    I almost never read a giant wall of text, so I assume formatting like all professionals do will help us all enjoy our communications better. Cheers

    • knr21 on 09/09/2019 - 13:50

      it was 5 lines up until the update, I would understand if it was a full page but 5 lines, but will take your criticism as constructive for my so called "mini novel" ;P

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