Definition of Major Fault under Australia Consumer Law (ACL)

• 

  Sage on 27/09/2019 - 20:51

  so much text, so the MOBO was DOA?
  obviously that's as major of a fault as can be.
  what's a minor fault in this context anyway? do you still get a replacement with the retailer?

  • 

    techlead on 27/09/2019 - 20:52

    -2

    No, the motherboard was not DOA, I used it for around a month.

    If its a minor fault, then the retailer chooses between refund, replacement and repair. In this case, they just want to give me a repair.

• 

  whooah1979 on 27/09/2019 - 20:55

  What is wrong with the motherboard?

  • 

    techlead on 27/09/2019 - 20:56

    It would not POST, there's no fan spin at all. When I press the power button, nothing happens. ASUS has already confirmed that its faulty. They have said they will repair it, but I don't want a repaired board that is only 2.5 months old. What if some other part fails?

• 

  whooah1979 on 27/09/2019 - 21:00

  I put a new motherboard in and the PC works fine.

  Is this motherboard the the same model?

  • 

    techlead on 27/09/2019 - 21:06

    No, different manufacturer. Once bitten twice shy, I'm not going to buy that model again.

• 

  arkie0 on 27/09/2019 - 21:10

  Do you know why it won't POST? That will determine if it's major or minor.

  Say for example it died due to power surge / brown / black out. Unless you have a UPS, are you saying you won't ever buy a MB again?

  • 

    techlead on 27/09/2019 - 21:12

    No, neither the manufacturer nor the retailer will tell me. All I know from them is that the fault is confirmed and they can fix it by replacing components, that's it. They wouldn't tell me anymore information.

    I have a surge protector. If it was my fault, I'd think they'd be very willing to tell me. They just want me to accept a repair, that's it. They have acknowledged that the product is faulty.

    • 

      arkie0 on 27/09/2019 - 21:17

      +2

      "it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it"

      My understanding is this only really applies to faults across the entire range.

      Like my example, the problem you have might be one off and minor from a technical point of view (blown capacitor from power issues), but the seen effect is major (won't power on).

      • 

        techlead on 27/09/2019 - 21:24

        +1

        That's what I have seen in most interpretations of "major fault", however, according to the WA government's interpretation, their example is quite broad.

        If a reasonable consumer had known about the problem, they never would have bought the product.

        For example:
        Ramona would not have bought her washing machine if she knew the motor was going to burn out after three months.

        https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consumer-protection/minor-or-…

        • 

          arkie0 on 27/09/2019 - 23:11

          @techlead: You can log a case with them or the ACCC for 100% clarification.

• 

  [Deactivated] on 27/09/2019 - 22:05

  +2

  Major is basically 'likely to occur again with a repair/replacement due to an inherent problem with the product'.

  Basically, if you can't a product which matches what you expected as the result of a repair / replacement, you're entitled to not have to go through the whole process of replacement after replacement etc.

  Does that not make sense to anyone else? It's not a magic change of mind machine, products die, the retailer can repair / replace if it fails the same amount as any other product of the the same class.

  • 

    techlead on 27/09/2019 - 22:35

    So you are saying if a product encounters ANY fault, it would be first considered minor because the manufacturer can repair it?

    Its hard to tell whether its likely to occur again. Eg, if the engine of a car fails, they replace the engine, is that a minor fault? How would you know if its likely to occur again, they replaced it with a new engine?

    • 

      arkie0 on 27/09/2019 - 23:09

      +2

      You're missing his point. Not sure you understand electronics especially integrated ones like a mb.

      A better example would be a tire. You buy a tire and expect it to last 80,000 km.

      Your tire gets a puncture (minor fault) and because of it you can't drive your car (you see this as a major fault), it doesn't even support the cars weight (major fault!).

      You get the tire repaired and it's potentially good for another 80,000km… but might puncture again. Integrated electronics can fail in a similar fashion, once repaired it could potentially not fail for the next 10 years.
      Evidence - Laptop, essentially a bigger version of integrated electronics. failure rates over 3 years https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2013/11/computer-manufacturers….

      Now it would be a different story if the tire had a design flaw or production flaw where by it was prone to punctures (proper major fault), but that would mean you would get a lot of punctures, and so would every other tire / ASUS ROG X399 owner.

      MB's might have a 1% failure rate over 3 years, just because you were unlucky and yours failed within a month, doesn't mean the product itself is inherently faulty with a major fault. Failure rate info https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Most-Reliable-PC-…

    • 

      [Deactivated] on 27/09/2019 - 23:37

      Most people would be happy with the repair / replacement in your circumstances so yes.

      If the wipers fail, then the entertainment system fails, then the fuel pump fails, then the doors leak, then the control unit fails, it can be considered a major failure even though all the things that failed were relatively minor, while the engine failing alone could be considered minor (eg, there was a specific defect with quality control on that one engine, rather than a design failure).

      Likely to occur again would be a known issue (eg failures occur frequently with this model, more so than other competitors) or a recurring issue, or simply a design fault (always fails after x months / when used in expected way y etc).

      Pretty much anything which occurs at an expected rate for the product (per million units shipped not per time period) is likely to be considered minor. If you car doesn't start every 20 times you turn it on, and there's no way to fix it due to a design fault, it's major, even though 'it works' most of the time. Eg. If they gave you a motherboard and it didn't work with the CPU that they said it would on the box, and no replacement / bios update would make it, then it's major, because you bought it expecting it to do what it said on the box.

      Basically expecting a full refund for something 3 months old that can be repaired doesn't pass the 'reasonable consumer' test.

• 

  AdosHouse on 27/09/2019 - 22:31

  +2

  We have no idea if it is a major fault or a minor fault. I had a one month old Aorus X470 motherboard not POST after about a month, turned out to just be a shit BIOS update. It was fixed by the store before sending it back to Gigabyte, and was back in my hands in less than a week.

  Now if some component on the board fried itself, they could be major, but the manufacturer doesn't know without first diagnosing the board. So once they have done diagnostics, THEN it will be determined if it is a major or minor fault AND THEN you can decide on a remedy.

  • 

    techlead on 27/09/2019 - 22:34

    The manufacturer has done their assessment, they've determined that there are some faulty components on the board and are willing to fix it. They wouldn't tell me what the fault is.
    The retailer just said, its minor because it can be repaired.

    • 

      Laziofogna on 27/09/2019 - 23:56

      I suggest to give a read to the ACL and see your rights, obviously the retailer is trying to force you to their best option.

• 

  myusername on 28/09/2019 - 05:16

  -1

  how did you test each component? are you certified qualified technician? can you be sure not to have shorted anything yourself?

• 

  HeWhoKnows on 28/09/2019 - 08:14

  The bottom line is that nobody repairs mother boards these days

  They just replace them anyway.

  Regardless its up to the store to make good the problem.

• 

  andyhui01 on 28/09/2019 - 08:23

  I don’t think what happened to you would discourage anyone from buying this particular motherboard. Plus you are still confident enough in it to demand a replacement ( or to “buy” another one).

  You see news articles about Jeep GC’s, those are examples of major faults that would discourage people from buying them.

  I would give the shop 1 chance to fix it.

• 

  f38r1 on 28/09/2019 - 09:11

  Happened to me too, MB failed after a year use. Emailed the ebay seller, not even responding. Consider yourself lucky they offered a repair and just take it

  • 

    Laziofogna on 28/09/2019 - 09:43

    That's one of the few reasons it's ok to buy from JB, if you go on their website they shyly promise they'll honour 2 years because of ACL. I personally find appalling that is considered acceptable that something so expensive lasts a 2 or 3 years at best.

  • 

    techlead on 28/09/2019 - 14:28

    Is the eBay seller based in Australia? If so, contact the relevant agency in your state.

    I'm in NSW, I Have contacted fair trading in NSW and they are taking my complaint with them. At the end, I can apply for a judgement, a consumer gurantee direction which is binding on the business. They can appeal in small claims court.

    I Will see where that goes. If fair trading says it's a minor fault, I will accept the repair.

    • 

      f38r1 on 29/09/2019 - 07:24

      I decided not to make a hassle for a $100++ MB so I just got another one

      • 

        techlead on 29/09/2019 - 07:53

        Fair enough.

        I'm going ahead with it out of principle. I was about to go to small claims court before I saw that the NSW government has made it alot easier for consumers to complain. Before, fair trading was just a toothless tiger, you can complain and they can side with you but they can't compel the business to do anything, all fair trading will do is strong advise you to seek independent legal advice and go to small claims court. Now, fair trading can issue a consumer guarantee direction to compel the business to make it right and the onus falls on the business to appeal to small claims court if they disagree. A win for the consumer in NSW!

        • 

          whooah1979 on 29/09/2019 - 09:57

          @techlead:

          the onus falls on the business to appeal to small claims court if they disagree.

          It is up to the consumer to make an application to have the direction enforced by a court.

          If a direction is not complied with within 28 days, or another period as specified in the direction, the consumer will be able to register the direction in the Local Court as a judgement debt and apply to have it enforced.

          • 

            techlead on 29/09/2019 - 15:05

            @whooah1979: I know, that's if they don't comply, then it becomes like any default for debt. To be enforced by the courts, fair trading only makes the legally binding direction.

            If the business want to reverse the direction, they need to appeal to the court.

            I apply to the court to enforce it, send a subpoena to their bank to garnish their money and I will be reimbursed for costs. Seems fine with me.

        • 

          Baysew on 29/09/2019 - 11:42

          @techlead: New powers for NSW Fair Trading

          A direction can only be considered for consumer disputes about goods purchased in the 6 months prior for a cost of $25 - $3,000. Fair Trading must help the Business and consumer to resolve the complaint between them first. If that fails, a direction may be issued, requiring a business to give a consumer a refund, or to replace or repair the good.

          This is not really going to help you.

          • 

            techlead on 29/09/2019 - 15:02

            @Baysew: requiring a business to give a consumer a refund, or to replace or repair the good.

            I've already confirmed with them, if they side with me and determines that the fault was major, they will ask me what I want, refund or replacement. Then, they will make the consumer guarantee direction for whichever one I choose. If the business disagrees, the onus is on them to appeal to small claims court within 28 days.

            Why would that not help me? That seems very helpful to me.

• 

  Techie4066 on 28/09/2019 - 14:42

  For the future, this is a common fault with Asus motherboards. I'd never buy Asus when looking at motherboards as their manufacture is outsourced.

  • 

    techlead on 28/09/2019 - 20:22

    This issue of going dead after around a month?

    I'm never going to get an ASUS motherboard again. I've had Gigabyte and ASrock before and never had an issue. This is the first time a motherboard has died on me.