Summary:
I already purchased a block of land and 80% of people have said it was really stupid because i'm going to get into a scenario where I get married and she will steal half my investment.
Wanted to know others thoughts about this topic or if you have any previous experience/advise
I bought land when single and built on it. In the space of a few years that land went up in value by over $200k. Even if I lost half of that in a relationship breakup, I'm still ahead…
I'm in a relationship now but I still purchased my second block of land early under only my own name early on in this relationship.
I wouldn't let your relationship status be the determining reason to not invest your money.
Remember,
Behind every successful man is a woman!
However, behind every unsuccessful man is no one!
Behind every successful man is a woman!
Behind every successful woman is a scared little man!
"Behind every successful man is a woman!"
Sexist much? How about if we said "behind every successful woman is a man"…
The origin of this statement is from the fact that a woman has always tried to take credit or profit for a man's work.
On the contrary, a man never tries to do so from a woman's work.
That's why the statement "behind every successful woman is a man" doesn't apply in our current society.
When a man does great work, you instantly see the girlfriend or wife in the spotlight, Michelle Obama is a classic case and all those AFL, NFL stars.
When a woman does great work, you never hear from the boyfriend or husband. This is a fact.
As you said in your comment below, this is more because of the fact that women won't marry unsuccessful men, rather than the idea that they contribute to a man's success.
I agree, as a team we will always achieve more in one lifetime. By team, I mean couple or general other house sharing arrangements.
I would also like to point out the economic value of living in an extended family structure, albeit it's challenges which are also present in a marriage.
If there are any Ozbargainers who have experience with other house sharing arrangements, feel free to share.
Thanks guys! Always a pleasure to hear your opinions.
Behind every successful man is a woman!
However, behind every unsuccessful man is no one!
Plenty of largely successful single men in history. Also plenty of evil, destructive men in history who had women by their side to encourage them even more. Statement is clever and relatively true but also quite inaccurate.
yes, undoubtable the best way to avoid losing wealth is to never have any. Also avoid relationships.
A friend got married recently for the first time, aged about 50. His greatest fear was that he was going to lose everything he worked for - which was incredibly close to nothing. That is not a good way to live.
Everytime I read shit like this on Ozb, it makes me feel good about my life
Oh god get a prenup or sell and spend it.
The family law system will screw you if you get divorced and there are LOTS of hidden costs on what you get to keep.
I owed $27000 when I met my ex. Left the marriage owing $210,000. A year from now I will be back to owing $27000 - 16 years after I got married.
My ex was a good person and didn't try to screw me over - but the system makes sure you get done.
For example, with your block worth $80,000 now, pretty easy to pay off on typical wage, probably pay off in 10 years.
Your block will be values at $160,000 in 20 years. Your wage growth unlikely to increase at same rate.
In 20 years you split up - assuming no kids - she gets 50% you get 50% but you will need to remorgage to pay her 50% - so after 20 years you owe $80,000 on a block you payed $80,000 for and it will probably take you another 10 years to pay off.
Assume you had three kids in same situation. You will get 30% she will get 70%. remorgage again, this time you owe $112000 but now will also have to pay maintenance, so you can't afford to pay as much off so you have to pay it over 25 years. So after 45 years you get to own your block again.
After you factor in all the extra interest you paid while paying it off over an extended period i.e. twice, you suddenly realize what you actually got a 30%-70% or 10%=90% split.
So I know these are all ballpark figures but this is the typical reallity for a divorced male.
Why are you getting married to someone if you think they are ultimately going to leave you?
False!
When you get married you can decide to join the goods or if each of you will only split what you have after the marriage together.
With that said, it belongs to you only as long as you don't join the goods when getting married.
She won't touch anything that you already have.
Source? You contradict everything everyone else has said.
My friend got married, and they agreed to marry in that way.
Everything we have before this marriage, belongs to the "owner". If he gets divorced, the house belongs only to him.
Everything we have after this marriage, belongs to both of us and will be spitted during a divorce so she owns a part of it.
I believe that everyone gets married by joining everything, meaning, does not matter if the house belonged to you before the marriage, she has rights over it.
I would not get married this way. Not because I am already having a divorce plan in my mind but because it is not fair for someone to owns something that already belonged to me before we two met.
And it worked out that way when they got divorced?
i'm going to get into a scenario where I get married and she will steal half my investment.
What if she owns a house or two herself?
You might end up stealing more from her!
if you trust your folks purchase the home under their name .. and if you have siblings be sure to notify them of your decision, your folks will need to alter their will
Had my own place, met the girl and 19 years later still married. The original property is an investment property now, but it enabled us to save for our dream homme. To be honest when we got married, splitting up just wasnt an option, this was discussed prior. met her approx 2 years before marriage for reference.
its dual income, no prenup. basically went all in into a marriage based on trust.
no surprises once married either - we'd already discussed part time/full time future arrangements, number of kids, private schooling etc.
discussing a prenup feels like you've already given up and giving yourself a backdoor for an easy out. thats my opinion - may not work for all though!
I personally think you’ve just improved your own desirability. You’ll probably find a better quality partner, faster who parents are more likely to like you now you have a block. Probably the best investment you’ve made in yourself.
who parents are more likely to like you now you have a block
Is it good to have in-laws like this?
Being pragmatic isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Immigrant families who are familiar with poverty tend to have a different outlook on these things
This comment sounds cucked as (profanity) and the words of an Asian parent who says 'son study hard and work hard and save and you will have a good life'. If someone only wants you for your finances is that not demeaning to think you have nothing else to offer? I would only date someone in a similar financial situation to me miss me with that beta provider shit. I can imagine the typical ozbargainer spending his whole youth Saving and not splurging on himself only to finally attract some low value gold digger.
Maybe I need to rephrase my post: Dudes with assets pull more chicks.
but my black lotus and mox sapphire seem to have the opposite effect.
Some of you should move to Japan, where being afraid to talk to women and a single virgin your whole life is perfectly normal.
Don't date someone that is a leech without a career/assets. Problem solved. Many men make their own bed by just wifing the first woman who shows interest. Make sure you research her past as well and that she has a history of good decision making.
Is it viable to buy the property as an investment as an asset of a trust, rather than individual? She will marry you, but doesn't have to be a named beneficiary of the trust. A quick google showed this link but you may want to do your own research on this idea. http://stepslaw.com.au/do-trusts-protect-assets-from-divorce…
Find a partner with more assets than you.
Are you even sure you'll find someone? - No point delaying your life on the chance that you might find someone.
Guess it also depends on how the wife will appear in your life. Eg. betrothed, forced upon each of you, or a decision that the two (you and partner) of you will make. If it's the latter, then its your choice to be with someone you can trust or not.
My wife is by no means my first love, but will be my last. I came into the relationship with significantly more assets/properties, and while there was early concern that I might lose half, once unquestionable trust was established between us then those concerns disappeared. We've tripled our assets and have a happy family.
Also, I bought two properties prior to meeting my wife. With the market now vs then (15 years ago), I'm glad I had and not waited to 'see what kind of wife I'd end up with' given the long-term trend of property price increase.
If your thrifty enough to find a bargain, you've got a good sense for finding a partner that's not going to rip you off.
You'll be fine, you're friends who say that are just unhappy and can't be helped.
If you think about it do you even have an option?
E.G.
Buy million dollar hourse with milliion dollars: You break up she gets half.
Buy million dollar hourse after you get married: It'll be 2 million then. Also do you think your wife will just be like "Lets not use the million in your bank and borrow it instead" -__-
Some (many) of the comments in this thread could be written by the 'incels' of 4chan.
In a modern, western society like Australia the vast majority of people marry someone they love. The vast majority of these people don't enter into marriage lightly or with a view to divorce, asset division or otherwise.
Australia has a no fault divorce system and one that looks to ensure that innocent and dependent children are financially taken care of. This isn't a fault, it's a feature of our system.
The best way to ensure a long lasting marriage (but no guarantee of such) is:
There are no guarantees in life and contrary to what many here believe it isn't about the destination - the journey is what matters.
Well written. I'm sure the commenters in this thread don't represent the ozb community as a whole.
In a modern, western society like Australia the vast majority of people marry someone they love. The vast majority of these people don't enter into marriage lightly or with a view to divorce, asset division or otherwise.
I agree with this - but the fact is that the majority of marriages do end in divorce. You would be a fool (irrespective of gender) to not consider asset protection strategies because you two "are special".
Australia has a no fault divorce system and one that looks to ensure that innocent and dependent children are financially taken care of. This isn't a fault, it's a feature of our system.
Very funny. You should speak to lawyers some time - family law is universally despised as a legal field because it's an outlier in terms of it not being procedural fair or based on reason. Exaggerations and lies are told daily, and the outcome of the docket you are assigned is effectively determined upfront on the basis of gender. The system has nothing to do with protecting children - they just get weaponised and caught in the crossfire by (usually) two shit-stains of parties.
Do 80% of your network believe you should spend all your money and never have any wealth in your name?
or
Are advising you to make all investments in some sort of complex miracle entity to protect your assets from divorce?
Not sure if they are incredibly smart or incredibly stupid.
Marry someone with more assets than you.
Just marry someone who is wealthier than you. Problem solved.
And don't have kids
You should go for it, no point waiting.
IF you end up marrying, you should be looking for someone who ALSO has a lot of money saved / invested. Avoid the chick with multiple full credit cards who is buying shoes every weekend.
Happy to chat if you want to DM - single bloke who owns a home.
All the negative comments aside, if you find a girl you love and want to live together forever, you will now have a nice place to stay and call home and build your family.
buck the trend and be the gold digger, problem solved
I dont want to jinx but what happens if you dont get married till .. another 10 years ?
Find a partner with equal values, or a richer partner ;-) (who does not read your thread).
Defacto after 2 years, still gets half. You don't even need to live together all the time
Good choice well done.
You won’t achieve much in life if you keep thinking about what your family friends suggested…
Now to answer your question; would I go for it personally? If I’m in a financial position where I have the needed deposit and borrowing capacity, most certainly will… I would not even stop there and will continue investing.
Good luck
Say what you want, but Michael Caton telling me that 'rent money is dead money' is an ad campaign that never truly left my head. A bit like Simpsons quotes - always there, just under the surface, waiting to strike…
Anyway, if I was single and had the capital, I'd buy a house.
It's worth noting the "rent money is dead money" is a really bad argument, and not an ad campaign you should take to heart.
Heh, I purchased a house when I was 20 years old, well before I even had a girlfriend. Fast forward 13 years, got married along the way and picked up two more properties. Two properties solely in my name as investments. One picked up whilst single, the other purchased whilst dating. The house we are currently living in as our PPOR is in our joint names, 50/50 share.
Two of the investment properties were funded 100% by me and I pay all the expenses relating to it. PPOR had some minor input from the wife for the deposit but I pay 100% of the on gonig mortgage payments……and 100% of all our rates, entertainment, bills, groceries, insurance, childcare, holidays, medical expenses etc.
I hope you've sorted out your prenup, having the assets in your name don't make them excluded from your joint ownership.
Meh, not really concerned.
just be like this guy and cut everything in half after divorce
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmFUEJ0rJWs
Australia is different to America where people split things down the middle after a breakup. If you bought and lived in a house and a girlfriend moves in & you're defacto then you break up after a couple years then she's only entitled to what she contributed to the mortgage during the time you were together. If you had kids together and she stopped working and became accustomed to a lifestyle dependent on your income then she'd be entitled to maintenance payments but again it's not splitting things down the middle.
Source? Think again… Not working because she's looking after the kids is still considered equal contribution to working. On top of that, she gets custody and you have to pay her money despite having equal outgoings because you still need to maintain a house for the kids to visit you. If she was working and decides to stop because she meets a new rich guy, you have to pay her more money because she no longer has income, her new partners income is not counted….I could go on….but in summary
Don't marry or be in a relationship with someone for more than 2 years unless they have equal or more assets
Don't have kids if you are male.
Source: friend who works in family court and friends who have gone thru the divorce and property settlement process. Lawyers start by agreeing on the total value of the assets and debts of each as well as the assets which are agreed to be shared ownership. They then look at contributions including non-financial ones as you've mentioned being fulltime mum caring for kids etc impacts on it and I covered ongoing maintenance payments for quality of life in my previous statement.
In OP's circumstance he's being concerned about the house which is in his name and how much a defacto partner would take in the event of a break-up. Lawyers would come to the agreement that his contributions before their relationship started are his and that her entitlements would be for the life of the defacto relationship. She'd get half of what she contributed as well as half the estimated capital gains if they were to sell the place which wouldn't be likely - they'd just agree for OP to buy out her contributions.
Please don't go on spouting the nonsense about how it works in America - and if you didn't do well out of a failed marriage yourself then bad luck, sounds like you needed a better lawyer
It's not stupid, if you're concerned about someone stealing half of your investment, reconsider marrying them.
Remember buying a house on a mortgage is converting a 20% deposit into to a 80% (value) liability to go with a 100% (value) asset.
When you are married the liability and the asset will be considered shared, so they'd be at a net loss.
However if you have the money to buy a house outright, whether or not you buy the land/home has no bearing on whether or not your partner is entitled to that money after a split.
It's worth noting as other's have mentioned, divorce splits are means tested in Australia, and you're not going to lose "half" in most cases.
Buy whatever dude, hell you can sell it before the wedding if you think that'll help.
simple solution, sign prenup before entering the contract
i wont worry about relationship status
get a house first if it is a goal, in your case you got one congrats.
worry about this problem later when you enter a relationship or about to get serious in a relationship
I did it.. Well I'm engaged but the title is in my name. My partner didn't have a stable employment at the time I bought it
Edit: sorry mistook house for home. My purchase was an apartment
Prenup before marriage, and keep finance separate, and see a good asset protection lawyer to channel assets through trust. Obviously, this is kind of extreme, but whatever it takes to protect what is yours right ?
We don't have prenups in Australia. Keeping finances seperate doesn't stop division of assets, neither does having a trust.
If you fear losing part of whatever you own perhaps best not to get into any relationship.