Hail Damage - Who is responsible?

Chthonic on 22/01/2020 - 17:32

I know no one is technically responsible for hail damage to a vehicle but here is my question.

My housemate is an international student, he took his car in to get repaired/serviced. Left the keys with them and all that Jazz. Canberra hail hit hard, damaged his car as the repairer left it outside.

He has a merc, parks it in the garage whenever he’s home. The repairer is stating they’re not liable and he has to fork out the money for repairs.

I know hail damage is something no one can control, however the repair shop had liability and possession of the vehicle.

PS: if anyone is wondering, yes this is a post for my housemate. My near new WRX was written off.

Automotive

Comments

    • Chthonic on 22/01/2020 - 17:43

      Not looking for the place to pay, just asking what people’s thoughts are. Figured it’s a bit iffy considering it was left outside for weeks when he could have taken it there to be serviced on the day they had room in the shop / time to repair it.

    • stirlo on 22/01/2020 - 19:04
      +39

      On the other hand it was in their possession and control. They should be liable for the damage that occurred while with them. I’m sure their business insurance covers stuff like this

      • pegaxs on 22/01/2020 - 19:23
        +15

        I agree. They have an absolute duty of care to take care of your vehicle. What they can’t control is random acts of god. So long as they took all due care with the vehicle, there is nothing they could do.

        I used to believe that the person/business who had possession was liable, and in the event of them using your vehicle and having an accident, they are, but after my friends Hyundai was damaged last year in the hail storms in Sydney while it was in for a service, he ended up having to claim on his own insurance.

        To put it another way, if you were driving their loan vehicle and it hailed while the car was in your driveway, are you liable for the damage?

        They should ring their own insurance company and ask them how to proceed in this matter. Or even go so far as to claim and nominate the dealer/panel beater as the at fault party.

        • bobbified on 22/01/2020 - 19:54
          +1

          To put it another way, if you were driving their loan vehicle and it hailed while the car was in your driveway, are you liable for the damage?

          While I understand what you're saying, what happens to a hire car you get (from say Hertz or Avis) that gets damaged by hail? Is the person that hired the car responsible for the damage? Also, the insurance cover provided to the person hiring the car often doesn't cover damage to the roof. That'll be an interesting one.

          • pegaxs on 22/01/2020 - 20:16
            -8

            @bobbified: Well, hire cars like those, the insurance and insurance excess waiver are part of the price. I'm talking about a car that is loaned. For example, If a friend loaned you their car and while it was in your possession, if it got hail damaged sitting in your driveway, who would you think would have to pay?

            Let's ramp it up a notch. You and a friend go out drinking, they park their car on your property after you said it was ok to leave it in your driveway. It hails while you are out and come back to see the car is totalled. As the home owner, is the car your responsibility if you said it was ok to leave it there?

            doesn't cover damage to the roof. That'll be an interesting one.

            Oh, that question is coming. I'm banking by a member since 5 mins who didn't by any damage/excess waiver and didn't read the contract.

            • bobbified on 22/01/2020 - 20:27

              @pegaxs:

              Well, hire cars like those, the insurance and insurance excess waiver are part of the price.

              You're right about hail damage being covered by the excess waiver, however, the person hiring still needs to pay the excess so technically, the person hiring the car is responsible for the damage in the same way that they would be if the car was damaged in an accident.

              If a friend loaned you their car and while it was in your possession, if it got hail damaged sitting in your driveway, who would you think would have to pay?

              In that case, I'd say that the I'd be responsible for the damage of the car that is in my possession and I would pay.

              Let's ramp it up a notch. You and a friend go out drinking, they park their car on your property after you said it was ok to leave it in your driveway. It hails while you are out….

              In this situation, I'd say that my friend is responsible since the car is in his possession and control and the ultimate decision to park in the driveway was his.

        • fishing on 23/01/2020 - 07:23
          +2

          Plus this is why the workshop has insurance.

  • Seraphin7 on 22/01/2020 - 17:39
    +37

    Hail Damage - Who is responsible?

    Trump.

    Or climate change.

    Maybe both.

    • OzzyOzbourne on 23/01/2020 - 09:32
      +8

      Scomo?

      • gazzathegreat on 23/01/2020 - 19:11

        Looks like hell (canberra) finally froze over.

      • Jackson on 25/01/2020 - 11:08

        He's just responsible for not doing anything about it

    • Cluster on 23/01/2020 - 14:15
      +8

      I blame Greta Thunberg. How dare you.

  • whooah1979 on 22/01/2020 - 17:40
    +7

    ^

  • Bargain80 on 22/01/2020 - 17:42

    Is it insured with comprehensive insurance?

    • Chthonic on 22/01/2020 - 17:44
      +2

      Yes

      • try2bhelpful on 22/01/2020 - 17:48
        +36

        Get the insurance company to deal with it, although you will need to work out what the excess is. You will have a problem trying to pin it on the repair place. However, I would take it elsewhere to get it repaired to spite them.

        • kizashi on 22/01/2020 - 17:53
          +2

          Good advice and the reason to you have insurance. It is for the insurance company to sort out and recover costs. Excess and possible increase due to claim history is one of things just have to live with, but no different to if you were unlucky to have it parked when it happened or were driving it at the time.

        • Make it so on 22/01/2020 - 18:55
          +12

          I agree with this advice. When you have comprehensive insurance, you pay for the "service" of them sorting out the mess. Worst case scenario is that you pay the excess, but if there is any chance whatsoever that the blame can be placed on the repairer, then the insurance will not hesitate to do so; they know the law much better than you, me or your friend.

          There is zero point arguing the matter with the repairer.

          Condolences on the WRX.

          • Peck on 23/01/2020 - 10:12
            +3

            @Make it so: Agreed. Your insurance company will fight "tooth and nail" to make sure that the other party pays for the repairs if liable. And so they will be the best advocates for your case.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 23/01/2020 - 11:58
        +3

        Claim on your insurance. Name God as the at-fault party. Indicate Mother Nature may have some liability as well.

      • Zonty on 24/01/2020 - 10:31
        -1

        I should have taken picture for evidence and all conversations has to be in written. I would have send email with picture and demand to fix it under public liability insurance. If mechanic does not response to email you can go consumer affair and after ward court for legal action.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 17:46
    +41

    Delivered to the repairer in good condition. should be returned in good condition. Claim on the repairers insurance.

    • Oofy Doofy on 22/01/2020 - 17:53
      +10

      yep, don't increase your premiums because they don't want to increase theirs. Vehicle was in business possession, delivered in good condition. They just need to cough up on their insurance. No doubt they will try to palm others off as much as possible, otherwise they would have been easy going and accepting of the unfortunate situation and would get everything squared away, upfront with due process.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 18:36
        +8

        You have to prove that the damage is from negligence or malpractice.

        If you drop a kid off at school and they had an aneurysm, you cannot pin the damage and fault at the school as they've done nothing wrong.

        The mechanics did nothing wrong.

        • Oofy Doofy on 22/01/2020 - 18:54
          +8

          They didn't necessarily do anything wrong, it was just unfortunate, but it was in their care at the time. I can't see why the business shouldn't pay for that. I just asked my local mechanical shop what they would do, and they said it would be covered under their business & property insurance.

          • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 19:09
            +6

            @Oofy Doofy: If you rented an Airbnb, the property is under your care. Would you say it is unreasonable to expect the tenant to pay if a flood occured?

            If a builder was renovating a house and it was destroyed by bushfires, is the builder liable for the fire damage?

            Just because something is under someone else's care doesn't mean that they are responsible without caveat.

            • Oofy Doofy on 22/01/2020 - 19:20
              +3

              @[Deactivated]: I don't really follow that analogy…?

              in case of the builder, yes his insurance would be responsible for it because chances are you have no insurance for property as it doesn't exist in a livable state yet.

              • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 19:22

                @Oofy Doofy: The analogy was with a renovation. It would have had an occupancy certificate and hence would have been insurable.

                As with a car, care was handed over.

                • Oofy Doofy on 22/01/2020 - 19:29

                  @[Deactivated]: If the car repair business has insurance to cover any damage to vehicles in its custody and control, then absolutely it should be taken care of by the business, they shouldn't pass the problem onto the owner of the vehicle.

                  I think it's just a simple case of what their insurance covers or not, but I wouldn't be willing to accept what was said over the phone or face to face, i'd want to find out what insurances they have and what is covered with my own eyes. Your car insurance company would take care of that side of things though.

                  • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 19:31
                    +1

                    @Oofy Doofy: So your reasoning for a business to pay the cost of hail damage is because they can?

                    • Oofy Doofy on 22/01/2020 - 19:33

                      @[Deactivated]: my reasoning is that if they have the appropriate insurance, within the guidelines of custody and control of someone's vehicle, then the business should sort it out for their customers.

                      • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 19:34

                        @Oofy Doofy:

                        my reasoning is that if they have the appropriate insurance

                        "business to pay the cost of hail damage is because they can".

                        Okay. We will agree to disagree.

            • HighAndDry on 23/01/2020 - 09:42
              +1

              @[Deactivated]: If you were an Airbnb tenant and there was a flood, you'd absolutely not be responsible.

        • pegaxs on 22/01/2020 - 19:33
          +2

          You have to prove that the damage is from negligence or malpractice.

          Absolutely this. It would have to be proved there is some form of negligence on behalf of the panel beater.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 20:07
          +5

          I delivered my kid in good condition . I'm not accepting a damaged one back. I know my rights: ACCC says repair, replace or refund all the money I've invested in that child:P

        • bobbified on 22/01/2020 - 20:16

          You have to prove that the damage is from negligence or malpractice.

          You could argue that not parking the car under cover to protect it from the elements is negligent.

          • pegaxs on 22/01/2020 - 20:21

            @bobbified:

            not parking the car under cover to protect it… is negligent.

            And if there is no room? Shed holds 10 cars and there are 20 on site? Local panel shop here has room for about 5 at a time in their shed and about 20 onsite in various stages of quoting to repair.

            Are you suggesting that all dealers and panel beaters have hail proof covered parking over their whole block? They should only book enough work that can be put in the shed?

            It's an act of God. Negligence would be taking your car that is undercover and moving it outside knowing that it is hailing cricket ball sized ice outside.

            • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 20:25
              +3

              @pegaxs: OP's friend should just get their insurance involved and let them sort it out.

              • pegaxs on 22/01/2020 - 20:27
                +3

                @[Deactivated]: Absolutely. I even mentioned that in this reply Ring their own insurer and see what they say or how they want to progress.

                If an insurance company doesn't think they should be liable for the cost to repair, they will soon let you know.

            • bobbified on 22/01/2020 - 20:34
              +1

              @pegaxs:

              Are you suggesting that all dealers and panel beaters have hail proof covered parking over their whole block?

              I don't have the answer to your question, but I do think they have a duty of care to look after the vehicles in their possesion and should have sufficient insurance cover for these situations. These weather conditions may not be frequent, but it's not the first and it won't be the last time that it will happen it's not unforeseeable.

          • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 20:33
            +1

            @bobbified:

            You could argue that not parking the car under cover to protect it from the elements is negligent.

            Unless specified that the vehicle, if stored, will be stored under cover then the argument of negligence would have to be consistent as per all hail damage claims.

            Imagine if all hail damage claims were denied based on the same definition of negligence. We would have a riot!

            • bobbified on 22/01/2020 - 20:44

              @[Deactivated]:

              Imagine if all hail damage claims were denied based on the same definition of negligence.

              Insurance cover for vehicles actually only covers where there is some form of negligence. There are cases where the insurer has refused to indemnify their insured where they can prove there has been no negligence.

              • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 20:56

                @bobbified: That's confuzles my little brain somewhat but I'll roll with it.

                Insurance will may or may not pay out due to negligence or the absence of.

                However, I do not think many would be supportive of an argument that parking in an exposed area constitutes negligence. This would mean all parking bays in exposed places is systematically encouraging negligence. It's a big ol' can o' worms.

  • Muzeeb on 22/01/2020 - 17:48
    -7

    Who is responsible?

    Greta is responsible.

    /thread

    • Chthonic on 22/01/2020 - 17:54
      +40

      Maybe you should put some more effort into posting deals / helping the community as opposed to useless responses?

      • Muzeeb on 22/01/2020 - 19:23
        +2

        Thanks. Sorry for your loss.

        • Godric on 22/01/2020 - 19:39
          +8

          Can you capture your reaction to this reply in an MS Paint illustration?

  • HighAndDry on 22/01/2020 - 17:58
    -5

    God? Pretty sure not the repair shop, but he can see if their insurance will pay out.

    My near new WRX was written off.

    RIP.

  • Donaldhump on 22/01/2020 - 18:03

    bad diet is responsible

  • cortex on 22/01/2020 - 18:27
    +22

    Lol imagine dropping your car off to the repairers and you come back to it in worse condition

    • spackbace on 22/01/2020 - 18:28
      +6

      Happened in Perth in 2010. Hail storm went through a popular car dealership area

      • Make it so on 22/01/2020 - 18:58

        30,000 cars were written off in that single storm. Every empty piece of land filled up with written off cars that they couldn't find enough space for. Used car prices through the roof. Not something I'll ever forget - scariest drive home ever.
        Had 2.5k storm damage myself from involuntarily driving through deep water. Insurance paid for it.

        • roastchook on 22/01/2020 - 19:13
          +1

          30000!!!!. That is an incredible number.

        • spackbace on 22/01/2020 - 19:16
          +1

          I was lucky. Drove my lowered car through the serious puddles. When I parked up, check engine light was on. When I started it later, CEL was off, no permanent damage :)

          • Make it so on 22/01/2020 - 19:27
            +2

            @spackbace: That's very lucky. I drove my car through a flooded street and the AC light started blinking (never happened before). I managed to get home, but the next day the engine got quite loud. Turns out all lubricants had been washed off every part under the hood. Even after repair, the AC remained loud when engaged.

            I had insured my car at an agreed value at least twice of its worth, so imagine how I envied colleagues who had their cars written off, parked just 1 street away, when my car didn't have a single dent.

          • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 20:12

            @spackbace:

            I was lucky. Drove my lowered car through the serious puddles.

            Don't you get free cars from work? Wouldn't their insurance cover any damages ?

        • Drakesy on 22/01/2020 - 20:16

          Used car prices through the roof.

          I think you mean the inverse, but yes, that was a great year to pick up your first car, even if it had a few speed dimples.

          • Make it so on 22/01/2020 - 20:45

            @Drakesy: Undamaged used car prices were through the roof :)
            Hail damaged cars were cheap, but rusting and with the tensile strength of the metal affected. They disappeared off the roads pretty quickly.

      • lostn on 23/01/2020 - 18:31

        since you're a dealer. Can you tell me why the cars on the dealership have such inflated excesses? If you test drive their car and something happens it's 2.5k+ excess. Do they buy insurance with maximum excess to save money on the premium?

        • spackbace on 23/01/2020 - 18:33

          Ours is $1k excess for over 25s

          But no doubt yes, they want to keep their premiums low. Makes logical business sense

          • lostn on 23/01/2020 - 19:43

            @spackbace: if a car is damaged, does it get replaced with brand new parts from the manufacturer?

            What about if it's a panel that can't be removed, such as the quarter panel?

            I certainly would not want to buy such a car.

  • Kranbone on 22/01/2020 - 19:13
    +3

    Get the insurer to deal with it. If the car was under the care of the repairer they are liable until it's returned to the owner.

  • outlander on 22/01/2020 - 19:25
    +1

    I would imagine they have something in the disclaimer you sign when handing over the keys, that they are not responsible. As to the moral responsibility, that depends on how foreseeable you believe the event was, and how harsh you want to draw the lines.

    Certainly the forecast was for wild weather that day.

    • gyrex on 23/01/2020 - 13:15
      +5

      Disclaimers don't absolve someone of legal responsibilities; nor do they limit a consumer's rights. ie. disclaimers aren't worth the paper they're written on.

  • Aust on 22/01/2020 - 19:28
    +2

    He likely has liability cover including testing and delivery.
    He can buy fire and perils cover for customer vehicles. He can also buy cover for theft of vehicle using a key.
    If he didn't buy this cover in discussions with his insurance broker that's not your fault. I would think your insurer will try and recover the cost.
    Your friend should at least ask for his insurer to waive his excess.

  • Ryanek on 22/01/2020 - 19:40

    I guess the inverse should hold true too?

    Maybe you should ask them who would be liable for damages to their courtesy car if it was hit by hail.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/01/2020 - 20:10
    -1

    PS: if anyone is wondering, yes this is a post for my housemate. My near new WRX was written off.

    Same car that you were freaking out because it had a small scratch? what happened?

    • Chthonic on 22/01/2020 - 21:27
      +10

      If you’re that interested in my history the bonnet was scratched up pretty bad. I ended up getting it wrapped. Car was written off in December because some woman in a ute ran a red light, T-Boned me and completely wrote the vehicle off - as well as injuring my neck and back.

      I bought the next WRX early Jan, that was written off on Monday as I work at ANU and that area got hit the hardest. Hope that answers your question.

      • bobbified on 22/01/2020 - 21:37
        +13

        Dude, You seem to have pretty bad luck with cars. I think you should just stick to catching the train! lol

  • Euphemistic on 22/01/2020 - 20:13
    +7

    Ring your own insurance co and ask them. If they can get out of paying by deferring it to the mechanic they will.

  • dylanando on 22/01/2020 - 22:36

    Interesting question. I remember watching a judge Judy episode similar to that of this and the business had to pay up.

    I’d just ring your insurer and ask.

    • djkelly69 on 22/01/2020 - 23:04
      +10

      I remember watching a judge Judy episode similar to that of this and the business had to pay up.

      /thread

      • k-rokfm on 23/01/2020 - 11:03
        +1

        I’d just ring your insurer and ask.

        /Actual end thread

        • spackbace on 23/01/2020 - 11:26
          +5

          Ima let you finish but djkelly69 had the best /thread of all time, of alll time!

          • k-rokfm on 23/01/2020 - 11:34

            @spackbace: Judge Judy to the rescue amirite

            • syousef on 23/01/2020 - 16:35

              @k-rokfm: Shhh or she'll yell at you to sit down and find in the other party's favour!

  • picklewizard on 22/01/2020 - 23:26
    +6

    To everyone arguing it was out of their control - say the building nextdoor caught fire, which spread to your car.

    Repairer calls you, says "sorry, someone else's property caught fire, your car got torched, hope you got insurance lol"

    Not for one fraction of a second would you go "yeah ok fair enough".

    This is no different. Repairer is responsible.

    • kingmw on 23/01/2020 - 01:54

      At this rate you should actually blame the firefighters for not controlling the fire fast enough before it burnt your car or the building owner next door for having a fire.

      OP's should definitely get their insurance company to sort it out. The liability will be worked out by the insurers.

      • techlead on 23/01/2020 - 09:56
        +1

        It should be claimed on the business's insurance, if they don't have insurance, then the business should pay for the damage.

  • Vote for Pedro on 23/01/2020 - 00:45
    +1

    I love how we have worked a fictional character into insurance policies

    • Vote for Pedro on 23/01/2020 - 19:26
      +1

      To the neg, prove me wrong. I’ll be happy to apologise.

  • Jules85 on 23/01/2020 - 01:13
    +2

    Call insurance and explain what happened and who had the car. If they have the legal option to have the repairer pay they will obviously do so rather than pay themselves.

  • Emerald Owl on 23/01/2020 - 01:22
    +4

    International student in a Mercedes. Oh silver spoon.

    • holdenmg on 23/01/2020 - 01:53
      -3

      I remember when an International student were in a Mercedes because they were Uber Drivers…

      • FW190 on 23/01/2020 - 10:13
        +2

        driving a Merc for Uber? now that is a high yield investment :)

    • [Deactivated] on 23/01/2020 - 09:50

      Maybe they are a mature age student switching vocations?

      My classmate in undergrad was a cardiothoracic surgeon in the UK taking a final year with us to prep himself for primaries and respecializing.

      And even if they have a silver spoon, good for them. I wish I had a platinum spoon.

      • Chthonic on 23/01/2020 - 12:56
        +1

        He's 25, studying a masters. He works 9 hours every night, when he's not studying/working his full time job he drives his mates cab around. The guy works extremely hard.

        I'm not a student (haven't been for about 6 years), I work full time.

        • This Void on 23/01/2020 - 14:23
          +3

          I didn't know you could work so many hours on a student visa.

          • Chthonic on 23/01/2020 - 16:42

            @This Void: I don’t think he’s on a student visa anymore. I’ll have to ask him but he’s very close to obtaining an Aus citizenship from what I recall.

            • neosin on 23/01/2020 - 19:28
              -1

              @Chthonic: Busted!

              Better delete your msg or he will get deported if immigration find out lol!

        • Emerald Owl on 23/01/2020 - 21:18
          +1

          Probably doesn’t have a cab licence or whatever either.

          • Chthonic on 24/01/2020 - 07:32

            @Emerald Owl: Haha he does actually. He's a hard working dude and he's been doing everything legit.

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