No Seat Belt Fine for International Visitors

ajjkh225 on 27/01/2020 - 23:14
Last edited 27/01/2020 - 23:20

today on the 27th Jan (Double Demerit) received a fine for having 3 passengers without a seat belt on. which is $1106 and 12 demerit points.

in addition, the 3 passengers that didn't have the seatbelt on was international visitors and they also received a $280 fine each. total of $840 between the 3. so eventually I have to pay a fine of $1946 and 12 demerit points?

is this the right thing? why do the passengers have to pay the fine? I thought all the responsibility was all on the driver?

please let me know if this is right? I will appeal this infringement

Automotive

Comments

  • bobbified on 27/01/2020 - 23:15
    +61

    …which is $1106 and 12 demerit points.

    Geez, you just got royally screwed!

    • ajjkh225 on 27/01/2020 - 23:16
      +1

      yep… up both holes..

      • bobbified on 27/01/2020 - 23:17
        +6

        international visitors and they also received a $280 fine each.

        The fines are in their name, right? Are they going to be coming back to Australia any time soon? If not, good luck to the state agency responsible for chasing them!

          • jjjaar on 27/01/2020 - 23:21
            +90

            @ajjkh225: Because they are adults and adults are required to wear seatbelts by law. As much as drivers are required to ensure their passengers are wearing seatbelts.

            The severity of breaking this law simply shows the importance of wearing seatbelts.

              • bobbified on 27/01/2020 - 23:28
                +33

                @ajjkh225: Both driver AND passengers (over 16) receive fines for not wearing seatbelts.

              • jjjaar on 27/01/2020 - 23:30
                +12

                @ajjkh225:

                There are seatbelt penalties and demerit points for drivers, including taxi drivers, who do not wear a seatbelt or who fail to ensure their passengers use seatbelts, where available. Passengers aged 16 years and older who do not use an available seatbelt will also be fined.

                https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/vehicles…

              • DashCam AKA Rolts on 27/01/2020 - 23:54

                @ajjkh225: Yeah, Nah.

              • DangerNoodle on 28/01/2020 - 13:48
                +17

                @ajjkh225: They were fined for being stupid enough to not wear a seatbelt.

                You were fined for not enforcing them wearing a seatbelt.

                All the latest safety features, airbags,etc are designed to work in conjunction with a seatbelt. Without a seatbelt absorbing most of the inertia, the airbags will deflate instantly.

                On top of that, in the case of an accident, you're not safe either as one of them could fly around the car and hit you, causing harm that may not have befallen you had everyone been wearing a seatbelt.

                And from the government's point of view, it's cheaper to fine people a lot of money in the hopes that the message gets through compared to having to pay for medical treatment for all parties in the case of an accident.

              • BinaryPirate on 28/01/2020 - 14:37
                +5

                @ajjkh225: This has been a thing for a really long time. The driver is responsible for the vehicle, all passengers and external objects, including people. Passengers are also responsible for their own safety.

                It's a expensive lesson to be sure, but a lot better than the outcome the law is intended to prevent.

              • Asadjaral on 28/01/2020 - 16:02
                +7

                @ajjkh225: At age 17 i was riding with my mate on motorbike down the road and he didnt have a helmet. I lost my licence for carrying a passenger for on my L's and a passenger without helmet. And he also got fined for being a passenger without helmet(he was 16 yrs old).

                Both got fined. Even though i lost my license and got 400+ fine ( cant remember how much my friend copped) now looking back at it. It was a good lesson.

            • AbsX on 31/01/2020 - 00:10

              @jjjaar: Totally agree.

              I respect the laws of the countries I go to when Im travelling.

              Likewise international visitors should follow Australian law when in Australia and that includes wearing a seatbelt when you are a passenger in a vehicle.

          • terrys on 28/01/2020 - 08:23
            +8

            @ajjkh225: The driver has a responsibilty to ensure the passengers have their belts fastened. The passengers had the responsibility to fasten their belts.

            They were fined for not fastening their belts.

            You were fined for not ensuring their belts were fastened and/ or driving when they weren't.

          • abb on 28/01/2020 - 09:56
            +13

            @ajjkh225:

            i was the driver

            Just curious… Why didn't you tell your passengers to put on their seat belts?

            • belongsinforums on 29/01/2020 - 19:30
              +1

              @abb: Some people can absolutely refuse as they don't do it in their home country and they know better than everyone else

              • xoom on 29/01/2020 - 19:35
                +2

                @belongsinforums:

                they know better than everyone else

                And nothing like a huge fine to take them down a peg.

                • belongsinforums on 30/01/2020 - 20:54

                  @xoom: in china last year i witnessed a passenger hit an airport guide because there was a delay. that certain kind of person cannot be reasoned with

              • abb on 30/01/2020 - 10:50

                @belongsinforums: I guess. I was just curious as to whether OP was met with a stubborn refusal, some kind of social pressure, or just plain didn't think of it.

              • Cheapo Moose on 30/01/2020 - 12:59
                +2

                @belongsinforums: So you tell them it's the law, put your seatbelt on or GTFO.

        • Islund on 28/01/2020 - 09:34

          When applying for a visitors visa one must declare whether or not one owes to any government body - the federal government does not let miss a trick.

          • whooah1979 on 28/01/2020 - 10:30

            @Islund: Old unpaid fines are sold to private debt collectors. Revenue NSW no longer have a claim when that happens.

  • whooah1979 on 27/01/2020 - 23:18

    international visitors and they also received a $280 fine each.

    Is the fines in their name?

    • ajjkh225 on 27/01/2020 - 23:19

      yes

      • whooah1979 on 27/01/2020 - 23:20

        Tell them not to worry. These fines won't be enforceable once they leave the country.

        • ajjkh225 on 27/01/2020 - 23:23

          yeh but they will be coming back in the future..

            • Ryanek on 27/01/2020 - 23:47
              +24

              @Mechz: Australia has some of the strictest Visa requirements. They're itching for any excuse to deny an application.

              For example when applying for citizenship, you actually have to disclose traffic offences.

              • User210686 on 28/01/2020 - 07:57
                +1

                @Ryanek: Idk about applying for citizenship but my friends haven’t had trouble coming back to Australia as a temporary visitor (most recently two weeks ago) even though they ignored the NSW fines in the past (the latest one was issued 18 months ago)

            • Donaldhump on 27/01/2020 - 23:50
              +43

              @Mechz: For what’s its worth my dad didn’t pay a speeding fine in Canada on holiday, and 12 years later got flagged at customs on rearrival and given a choice to pay or be deported

          • DashCam AKA Rolts on 27/01/2020 - 23:56
            +5

            @ajjkh225: On future trips, bet you'll make sure that their seat belts are appropriately fitted.

        • alikazi on 28/01/2020 - 02:57
          +1

          Pretty sure it will catch up to them in the future if they're coming back. They might not be able to enter the country without paying. I wouldn't expect Australia to allow visitors to get away with not paying fines. Just can't.

        • askme69 on 28/01/2020 - 09:17

          Now that NSW hand off old debts to private collection agecies. If they can match them, i wouldn't be so sure about VISA issues in the future. Things change.

          I used to get paniced students at the airport wanting to pay fines as they thought they would be unable to board the plane.

    • Ughhh on 27/01/2020 - 23:36
      +73

      Surely funerals cost more than $2000.

      • Slippery Fish on 29/01/2020 - 23:39
        +1

        You don't pay for them when your dead.

        • ThadtheChad on 30/01/2020 - 09:12

          Apparently neither are the passengers in OP's car.

          (I meant, it seems like he feels he's on the hook for all of the fine.

        • futureminime on 31/01/2020 - 10:05

          Normally your estate does - So you kind of do. Still your net worth being changed. Its just you don't care as much that you're paying it, because of the being dead.

    • Ryanek on 27/01/2020 - 23:37
      +22

      Seat belts saves lives. I'm willing to bet everyone involved will always wear seat belts from now on.

      • Loopenip on 28/01/2020 - 01:30
        +5

        It saves the lives of others / bystanders in the event of an accident too, a flying body is no joke

        • TerryJustTerry on 28/01/2020 - 08:23
          +1

          doesn't it sort of depend whos body?

      • Ughhh on 28/01/2020 - 10:37
        +12

        Is it OK to go 100 in a school zone? No body was hurt. I'll deal with the consequences when a kid is dead, how about that.

      • Osprey06 on 28/01/2020 - 10:58
        +7

        Here, have a neg from me. The fines are not at all disproportionate when you consider the medical bills the state would like have had to foot if they had been involved in an accident and thrown from the vehicle…

        Everyone who travels knows (or should know) that the onus is on them to research the laws of their destination country and ensure they do not commit a crime. In a regular road car, wearing a seat belt hurts nobody. Wear it. Hopefully they will in the future too. Who knows, it may save their life someday.

      • burningrage on 28/01/2020 - 20:37
        -5

        I applaud your bravery to say this. I am sure many silent Australians agree with you.

        PS. Didnt neg you.

        • ankor on 29/01/2020 - 13:46
          +2

          It's not bravery. It's ignorance. If you lump in all of the associated costs with an accident, whether it be physical injuries or property damage, it is significant.

          Think on the emotional cost to the first responders too. Nobody likes to see dead people split into chunks and smeared on the road mate.

          • RC13 on 29/01/2020 - 14:43
            +1

            @ankor: An ambo friend told me they sometimes use the word "meat crayon".

            • ThadtheChad on 30/01/2020 - 09:15

              @RC13: …With the intellectual capacity to match.

              I can't fathom the thought process behind EightImmortals and burningrage's opinion. Nobody was harmed in THIS particular instance.. but it bloody well could have been.

              Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

              • xoom on 30/01/2020 - 09:43
                +2

                @ThadtheChad: But but.. Nobody got hurt. Lets wait till someone does… Then we blame the government for their inaction.

            • ankor on 30/01/2020 - 14:42

              @RC13: Ever look into the eyes of a coroner over a poker table? They've seen some sh-t alright!!

    • ozbjunkie on 28/01/2020 - 11:26
      +5

      Nah if the state gets to pay for the surgeries to put you back together again, the least the state can expect is your honest attempt to minimise the damage.

      If we had no public hospital system, I might agree with you.

      • CandyMan on 30/01/2020 - 06:13
        -1

        That’s what ctp insurance is for

        • CandyMan on 30/01/2020 - 11:43

          No need to neg, I’m just stating the facts. That’s why your ctp bill goes up when too many accidents happen.

          Still kind off public money though, but not from the govt purse

          • ankor on 30/01/2020 - 14:42

            @CandyMan: Goes up a lot less when there's no seatbelt lol.

            • CandyMan on 30/01/2020 - 16:28

              @ankor: My comment was clear, you may take it out of context

    • Odin on 31/01/2020 - 00:44
      +1

      lol, good luck writing anything that questions government road rules on australian forums. The whole countries been brainwashed through decades of propaganda.

  • Donaldhump on 27/01/2020 - 23:19
    +2

    Your first sentence contains a double negative, you need to remove the word “not”

    How old are the passengers, I thought if over 16 or so it’s the passengers responsibility.

    Didn’t think both the driver and passenger would get fined.

    You don’t have to pay their fines, that’s their prob

    • ajjkh225 on 27/01/2020 - 23:22

      i thought i would be the only one paying the fine..
      the passangers are 17, 57, 60 my in laws and brother.. so i will have to pay their fines as well.

      • whooah1979 on 27/01/2020 - 23:24
        +1

        so i will have to pay their fines as well.

        No. The fines were issued in their name.

      • Donaldhump on 27/01/2020 - 23:25
        +9

        Wtf for they are adults.
        So if my mother in law sneakily undoes her seat belt in the back seat I have to pay, f*** that

        You don’t pay their fine, they are adults and unless they come from a very backwards place, they know seatbelts are to be worn

        • ajjkh225 on 27/01/2020 - 23:27
          +7

          yeh but they are my guest from overseas and they didnt know the law and plus i didnt remind them as well. so its my fault as well.

          • Donaldhump on 27/01/2020 - 23:33
            +8

            @ajjkh225: No it’s not, they are adults, they must learn the laws for themselves, Where are they from that doesn’t need seatbelts.

            So If my Canadian cousin came here and blazed up its my fault for not telling him weed isn’t legal.

            • Ryanek on 27/01/2020 - 23:38
              +1

              @Donaldhump: Have you not been to Asia?

              • Donaldhump on 27/01/2020 - 23:39
                +6

                @Ryanek: Several times why is that?

                Are you saying an Asian coming here from a loose country needs to be made aware of what seat belts are, they are adults ffs… ignorance is no defence no matter where you are from.

                • kolorijo on 28/01/2020 - 11:14
                  +2

                  @Donaldhump: In Indonesia, only front passengers are required to wear seat belts. Rear can do without.

            • whooah1979 on 27/01/2020 - 23:43
              +2

              @Donaldhump: The US have some interesting laws depending on the state.
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_laws_in_the_United_S…

              • rogerm22 on 28/01/2020 - 12:04

                @whooah1979: That's not entirely accurate. A friend got pulled over and fined in Wyoming, solely for not wearing a seat belt. This was 10+ years ago and I think they only got a $20 US fine. In Wyoming, drivers often would not wear seat belts.

            • Hunter14 on 28/01/2020 - 12:29
              -2

              @Donaldhump: While I understand your logic, I assume OP is Asian, and there is an understanding to look after your overseas guests. Seat belts aren't particularly enforced over there and OP mentioned he forgot to remind them. I, too, would be inclined to pay for the fine if I was in his shoes especially since it's family.

              • Donaldhump on 28/01/2020 - 13:36
                +3

                @Hunter14: mate they are adults, they make their own choices. they may live in a loose country but they must have the common sense to realzie that, just like a bolivian wouldnt rack cocaine up in a bar here

                but i hover on the fence with this one, if the OP wasnt wearing his belt he probly gave them the wrong impression

                • Hunter14 on 28/01/2020 - 13:47

                  @Donaldhump: Yeah mate, like others have said it's a cultural thing. If I had warn them before hand and they still didn't wear the seat belts then I may be less inclined to pay for them.

                  I do sympathise for OP getting a double whammy on fines though. However, rules are rules.

            • futureminime on 31/01/2020 - 10:14

              @Donaldhump: Id say its more like bringing your Canadian Cousin over, handing him a bong and then after they get caught being like 'oh yeah we don't use that here'. I assume they have cars where they are from but the laws aren't treated the same. Yo're right he doesn't have a LEGAL responsibility, but feels a moral responsibility.

              There is a social contract between family members when operating as a host. It doesn't have to be correct for everyone ifs its correct for them. To be honest I only know what is illegal and legal (for the large part) from what family, friends and my education has taught me. The only laws/regs I've looked up is when the need to carry your licence while driving in NSW has changed a couple times, and employment/tax law.

          • DangerNoodle on 28/01/2020 - 19:43
            +1

            @ajjkh225: You should know the law and they should know the laws of the country they are visiting. The first thing you should look up about any country are the differences in laws.

            An example would be bringing in your ADHD medications to Japan can get you detained and arrested.

            Heck, in some parts of the world it is legal to marry a child under 18, doesn't mean it's not treated as pedophilia over here.

        • Ughhh on 27/01/2020 - 23:32
          +2

          Probably more of a culture thing…

          • juki on 29/01/2020 - 23:48

            @Ughhh: I dont buy the culture thing, when i get in the car i tell my guests to put on their seatbelts and they all do without flinching. While it may not be habitual where they are from, they do know what they are for.

            Nonetheless, insane fines, I didnt know passengers also got fined, ouch, I think i'll be buckling people up myself from now on

            • Ughhh on 30/01/2020 - 00:18
              +1

              @juki: My response was for people questioning about op having to pay for relatives $280 fine, not what you're referring to. While op doesn't have to pay, it's probably a culture thing to cover the fines.

      • this is us on 31/01/2020 - 14:30

        I think the decision around wether you will be paying their fines or not is a personal one. If you feel responsible, or if you wanna help, that's up to you and not something people on Ozbargain should decide. It's clear that their fines are not your responsibility legally speaking.
        I think it's also clear why you are being charged as the driver, and why each passenger is being charged as well. Hopefully you will remember that next time… Very expensive lesson…

    • ajjkh225 on 27/01/2020 - 23:29
      -8

      so does this apply to Australian passengers as well when they don't wear seat belts?

      • Donaldhump on 27/01/2020 - 23:31
        +2

        What stare are you in, take 5 minutes to find this in google.

        • ajjkh225 on 27/01/2020 - 23:32
          -2

          NSW, i had a look but i cant find anything

          • Donaldhump on 27/01/2020 - 23:35
            +1

            @ajjkh225: https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/index.cgi?fuseaction=deme…

            Looks like in nsw a driver is responsible for their passengers. Load of shit in my opinion, u can’t stop the, undoing their belts

            • ajjkh225 on 27/01/2020 - 23:38
              -2

              @Donaldhump: yeh, I thought the driver was responsible for everything. each individual receiving additional fines is excessive in my opinion

              • Donaldhump on 27/01/2020 - 23:43
                +2

                @ajjkh225: Qld they are not..16 and over is responsible for themselves

                One thing qld has right and nsw doesn’t.

                Htf is a driver responsible if their raving lunatic passenger quickly whips his belt off

                • coin saver on 28/01/2020 - 11:20

                  @Donaldhump: The penalty in Queensland for not wearing a seatbelt is $400 and 3 demerit points for drivers and passengers aged 16 years or older. The driver is responsible for ensuring that all passengers are wearing a seatbelt or are in an approved child restraint. Non-compliance can result in the driver being fined for each unrestrained passenger.

            • Butterfly Gocha on 28/01/2020 - 08:30
              +7

              @Donaldhump: But as a driver you can pull over in a safe place and not proceed until their seat belt is back on

              • Donaldhump on 28/01/2020 - 08:54

                @Butterfly Gocha: How do you know they have taken it off?
                Garuntee if you pick me up right now and drive me an hour I can slide that belt off and you would never know

                And also

                Htf do you pull over going 100km in a highway

                • Richfield on 28/01/2020 - 09:08
                  +3

                  @Donaldhump: My car beeps at me when a seatbelt isn’t done up.

                • Osprey06 on 28/01/2020 - 11:08
                  +1

                  @Donaldhump: Any remotely modern car (built in the last 20-25 years) will have a visual and/or audible warning. Failing that, seat belts make a fairly distinctive 'click' when they're engaged and disengaged.

                  Plenty of safe enough places on most highways to pull over. If you're on a narrow regional highway, pull off onto one of the many side roads or farm driveways.

                • OzBrogains on 29/01/2020 - 16:48

                  @Donaldhump: Have you ever driven a car that's manufactured after 1960? Honest question.

            • macrocephalic on 28/01/2020 - 12:12

              @Donaldhump: In Queensland I'm fairly certain that the driver is only responsible for children who aren't wearing a seatbelt - adults are responsible for themselves. I hope it hasn't changed.

          • brad1-8tsi on 28/01/2020 - 19:50

            @ajjkh225:

            NSW, i had a look but i cant find anything

            You can't be serious. A rest from driving will give you some time to catch up on the rules.

            Did you get your licence in Australia?

      • jjjaar on 27/01/2020 - 23:32
        +13

        Yes. This isn’t an anti-visitor law, nobody is out to get your family.

        It’s there to prevent road trauma. Those not wearing seatbelts are at a much higher risk of being injured or killed on our roads. Just be thankful you didn’t have a crash.

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