EPA May Want Me to Attend Court

SydEng on 06/03/2020 - 11:21
Last edited 07/03/2020 - 20:01 by 1 other user

Hey All

Last November, I reported someone for tossing a cigerette butt out of their car. This especially pissed me off as this was during the total fire ban while we had the bushfires. Today, I got a call from EPA saying the driver wants to dispute the fine and I may have to attend court. Obviously, I do not want to attend court as this means I lose out on a day of work. Wondering what options do I have? Would I just be able to give my dashcam footage of the event happening and avoid court.

Dashcam footage @ 0:19

UPDATE: Told EPA, I had dashcam footage and defendant backed out of going to court and accepted the fine.

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closed Comments

          • SlavOz on 07/03/2020 - 20:54
            -2

            @canyoudoitcheaper:

            one can be proven guilty in court on the oral evidence of a lay witness without any additional evidence.

            [Citation needed]

            You're probably unaware that in most such cases you're thinking of, there is more evidence presented than just someone else's say-so. Usually the accused admits to it or doesn't bother defending the charges.

            I, for one, have been accused of many things I didn't do, even by a decorated police officer, and have proudly never accepted any charge or paid any fines until my right to irrefutable evidence is met. Still waiting.

  • OzHunterNSW on 07/03/2020 - 09:58
    -5

    You will be vigorously cross examined by the opposition's council.

    Your eyesight will be placed in question. Your distance from the offender's vehicle will be placed in question.

    You will be required to attend the police station, again.

    You will be required to attend Court all day, and it may be adjourned to another sitting.

    If I were you, contact the police and inform them that you are unsure, you can not be 100% certain that it was a smoke butt.

    It could have been something from the windscreen —- you are just unsure.

    • Hardlyworkin on 07/03/2020 - 12:06
      +8

      I think you are mixing the local court up with Law and Order. So youu think the accused will be spending thousands on a lawyer to attend court?

  • MontyMacaw on 07/03/2020 - 10:44
    +4

    It is a common tactic to defend a charge in court when there are witnesses. The theory is that it will be intimidating or too much trouble for the witnesses to turn up. I think you did a well intentioned act. I think you should follow through. Society needs this type of gesture. If you lose a day’s work then wear it as a badge of honour. I see stuff all of the time that pisses me off but am unable to do anything about it. I have reported some to the police and never know what has come of it. Case in point I saw a hoon doing donuts outside a pet shop in the middle of the day. I took a photo of his car, the marks on the road and called the police with the details. I have no idea if anything was done about it. We live in a society. So we should respect society’s rules. Don’t be afraid. Explain to your employer the circumstances and hopefully they will be understanding. Also you probably won’t need a whole day off anyway (yes I have been to court as a witness a number of times due to my occupation).

  • Ryanek on 07/03/2020 - 11:06
    +8

    I used the latest imaging technology. Enhance

    • Euphemistic on 07/03/2020 - 13:48
      +4

      You need to enhance more so we can confirm the DNA of the driver on the cigarette butt.

    • Plug on 07/03/2020 - 17:26

      If a ciggie butt was flicked from a car it wouldn't have the ash still attached as per your "enhancement".

      • Ryanek on 07/03/2020 - 18:51
        +1

        Whoosh

  • anonymous01 on 07/03/2020 - 12:03
    +1

    I am glad he is taking this matter to the court. You should attend. When he loses, not only will he have to pay for the usual fine for throwing out the butt, but also few hundred or couple of thousand dollars lost in court fees.

  • Herbse on 07/03/2020 - 12:25

    I was under the impression that if you're called into court for any reason, whether it's jury duty or in relation to a case (whatever the terminology is). Your place of employment has to let you go and there's a special leave bucket allocated for this. Check with your HR Dept.

    Definitely go, dont let this guy get off the fine because you don't go. That's how people get away with it, they push it as far as they can until the reporter gives up for whatever reason.

    I've reported many people, where I can I upload pictures or dashcam videos. I've had one person push back and say they want to go to court, EPA called me and asked if that's still okay and I said yes.
    Then nothing happened, they must have gotten scared and accepted the fine.

    There's a good chance the offender in your case is doing the same. Playing chicken to see who will back down.
    If he goes to court he has to cover the lawyer and court fees, (maybe only if found guilty). So the chances of him risking thousands to save $800 or whatever the fine is, is slim.

    TLDR - Do it.

  • MessyG on 07/03/2020 - 13:07
    +3

    Call their bluff mate, you've got dashcam footage. "Going to court" is the oldest trick in the book in terms of trying to intimidate someone - ring back and say you're fine to, you've got the footage and you haven't done anything wrong. I doubt it will end up in court at all.

    • spackbace on 07/03/2020 - 16:00

      Ah, it wasn't the other party that called OP, it's the organisation. The one who said witnesses may have to come to court as a witness

  • capslock janitor on 07/03/2020 - 14:21
    -1

    white van on left
    https://youtu.be/Hh7yhtqlwWs?t=19

    Edit - why waste a day seeing this grub, ask to send them a letter.
    I mean the video footage speaks for itself

  • [Deactivated] on 07/03/2020 - 14:55
    +2

    Wonder if its a work vehicle?

    Illegal to smoke in a work vehicle, double the fine!!!

    • Euphemistic on 07/03/2020 - 15:57
      +1

      Where do you get that idea?

    • Plug on 07/03/2020 - 17:30

      In NSW it's illegal to smoke in a work vehicle if there is more than one occupant or it is used by more than one employee. If white van only had the driver and he's a sole trader then he's ok. Or she. Whichever.

      • Euphemistic on 07/03/2020 - 18:00

        Is that in legislation or just WHS guff?

  • katykat on 07/03/2020 - 15:34
    +1

    I work in the Courts in Victoria, not sure what State you're in.

    Ordinarily, if you are being called to attend Court as a witness you will be either subpoenaed or summonsed. There are rules regarding the reasonable costs incurred by witnesses to attend court and they are borne by the issuing party ie. whoever is relying on your evidence. The reasonable costs should be negotiated by you with the issuing party beforehand, and depending on your job there may be rules and schedules regarding how much you can claim. Example: I had a surgeon who was called to give evidence try to claim almost $10K in costs because that was what it cost him to cancel surgery for the day, however that is not considered reasonable by the Court and the final amount was much lower once the Judge got involved.

    Get in touch with the EPA and explain to them what a day off work costs you and go from there. In order to issue a subpoena or summons they know they must incur your reasonable costs so they won't be shocked or surprised by it.

    Alternatively, send them the dash cam and state you really don't want to attend for whatever reason and ask if the dash cam is sufficient. It might be enough or they might still require you to attend. Depends on how they think the case will go.

  • Vote for Pedro on 07/03/2020 - 16:04

    Well, you are the accusing party and key witness.

  • ssquid on 07/03/2020 - 16:28

    How sure are you that the person in the van was throwing a cigarette and not just spitting?

  • stringbean402 on 07/03/2020 - 16:50

    I don't think it was a cigarette butt, you don't smoke with the windows up. Definitely threw something out though.

  • Kranbone on 07/03/2020 - 17:18

    I hope you go to court. (profanity) like this think they can get away with it.

  • chumlee on 07/03/2020 - 17:33
    +1

    Attend court to stick it to the douche

    People who throw cigarette butts on the ground & dog owners who don't pick up after their dogs are low life

  • weee on 07/03/2020 - 17:37

    good on you op, I know I would be hesitant/reluctant if its not for a luxury car tosser

  • DiscoJango on 07/03/2020 - 17:50
    +1

    just dont do a ripper fart while in court, otherwise the epa will getcha

  • Numlock on 07/03/2020 - 17:59

    Who cares if it wasn't a ciggy? Nail the ****

  • SydEng on 07/03/2020 - 18:14
    +16

    UPDATE: Told EPA, I had dashcam footage and defendant backed out of going to court and accepted the fine.

  • HangryCakeStore on 07/03/2020 - 18:24
    +1

    Anyone holding a cigerette out of their car should be fined as much as holding a phone in the car, I'll say!

  • gesco on 07/03/2020 - 19:07
    +1

    IMHO someone throwing a lit cigarette butt on the ground should be charged with arson (if it starts a fire) or attempted arson (if it doesn't).

  • Dreamcast on 07/03/2020 - 20:38
    +4

    The issue for me, is not just fires, but the attitude. The road ain't your bin fool!!

    Great work mate 👍

  • bodymovin on 07/03/2020 - 23:24
    +1

    Thank you for reporting him. These dirty people should know better.

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