So these articles has got me thinking whether Australia is heading towards recession
http://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/australia-is-running-…
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/coronavirus-australi…
It would be interesting to see the opinion of OzBargain economists
Every industry will be affected some more then others the 1st line hit would be travel/tourism/airline businesses i heard the regional airline will be bust within the next 3-6 months
the 2nd would be entertainment from the your local bands at the pub to the AFL they will be bleeding money
3rd will be all luxury items ie foxtel, new cars etc
Probably more then that but it is a bad time to be a sub-contractor or a casual worker if you ask me the state and federal government are not doing anywhere near enough
But in all honesty i got zero sympathy for companies like Qantas pay there CEO 26 million now they are crying poor….
The beauty of the rail industry is the state will run empty trains all day long. So I think my job is safe for now.
I work in health care but I'm a physiotherapist in the private sector I've had a huge reduction in clients due to mostly elder patients fear of going out and contracting COVID 19
Find a good retirement home with plenty of old people. Move in. Help them order everything from Coles / Woolworths. Charge them a fee for your services. By the end of this you'd be the only person with money.
Old people have plenty of money if they are not going out you move in to give them a chance to spend it!
I like your energy but not only is that immoral it is highly unethical as a health practitioner
Old people need the most support at times like these
How is that unethical/immoral?
If you are providing a service which would otherwise not be available, you are entitled to be compensated for your time, skill and/or innovation.
@[Deactivated]: More moral than those people running around outside and getting COVID 19 then go to work. I guess it is immoral to deny your family, friends and partners the beauty of your body while locked up with the most vulnerable members of society.
I guess it is immoral to deny your family, friends and partners the beauty of your body while locked up…
Why isn't my family this supportive? 🤣
The biggest mistake people are making is thinking this is all the fault of COVID-19.
The Government has said that privatisation has severely damaged the economy and that small and large enterprises are no longer viable.
They said this in 2017 after 20 years of privatisation before anyone had even heard of COVID.
You have been conned by charlatans.
One of the reasons for privatisation was the fictional economic drain that not privatising was causing. Now that the experiment has been run and the economy has been severely damaged they couldn't give a shit that the economy is worse. Because that would mean admitting that they were idiots or charlatans when they explain that privatisation has failed to live up to any of it's theoretical claims.
And they aren't idiots, most of them are lawyers.
The biggest mistake people are making is thinking this is all the fault of COVID-19.
Victim shaming. The disease is just as a result of people catching it from animals which they happily consumed at the time. It is like complaining about the price of a service for an 8 year old Mercedes when you've already got the envy of people when it was new and low maintenance.
OzBargain logic:
"If you don't get the hours you need to pay the mortgage just get a weekend job or a night job. Don't be lazy!"
"I don't want my taxes supporting you entitled bludgers. You should go back to study something useful."
"I read the market and bought and sold Bitcoin at the right time. If you invested your holiday money years ago you wouldn't be crying now."
"In my industry I'm guaranteed to find another 200k job because the demand in Australia is so high. I'm not worried."
you forget "the govt and rba will bail me out, lower interest rates and give me $"
Followed by "How should I best spend my $750?"
Good thread for me to short Seek at $14.93 :)
Also the PM new measures announced that basically killing the gig economy .
Not sure shorting seek is a good idea. Were about to have a whole lot of people unemployed and looking for work. Very easy to pivot to an ad platform with millions of users browsing tens or hundreds of pages a week.
People struggle on Newstart as it is, given there has been no rise in weekly payments for nearly 2 decades. Now we will have potentially 1 million people on Newstart (And I am likely to be one). The problem will be how we now raise taxes to pay for this all the new arrivals.
PS I assume we are no longer accepting new immigrants?
They won't raise taxes. They'll have a massive deficit instead, which is EXACTLY what circummstances require. The rubbish we've had about "debt emergency" and the like is terribly harmful - our current problem is not ENOUGH government debt (aka "money"). When people are hoarding money the government needs to print it like toilet paper - which is what the RBA just announced it intends doing.
The entire world is
exact 20 years since y2k bug
With the main economy riding on exporting resources, flipping houses and pouring coffee, what can go wrong?
Our currency
Of course we will go into recession thanks to the Liberals considering they sold everything we owned. Remember when the liberal state governments sold off the electricity assets and we were guaranteed lower electric prices?
What about when they sold Telecom and told families to buy it as it had great investment potential? Where did the share price go?
What about the Scumo and his hand puppet saying we are back in the black,9 billion surplus is done and when questioned his response was don't question me its done.
The economy started tanking as soon as they were re elected.
Then Scumo did nothing when the economy started tanking ran away when the country was on fire and waits for Donald's lead before announcing anything on coronavirus.
Everything they touch turns to 💩
Contrary to popular belief, Australia has not avoided a recession for such a long time because we are clever. Recessions are unpleasant but also a normal part of economic cycles which themselves are driven by the human emotions of fear and greed.
We've avoided one simply because a country with a population of over 1 billion people has undergone a vast transformation of urbanisation and we just happened to be lucky enough to be able to dig the stuff they needed to do this out of the ground and sell it to them at very good prices. That's it. It didn't happen because Peter Costello is a genius (most overrated politician ever) or because we are smarter than other countries. We're lucky. China needed and wanted our resources and were willing to pay for them. Good old supply and demand rules.
Recessions are caused by normal economic cycles, which by good fortune we've managed to avoid/minimise for quite some time, or sometimes as in this case external forces we can do little about. There will be hurt, but we will survive and recover.
The media don't help by acting like we're all going to die if the country records two quarters of negative growth.
Clever LOL
If you call digging faster minerals to export then when it didn't work pump up the housing market.
This as well as immigration, we've been in a per capita recession for some time.
So we've got nothing to worry about. China will want our resources and we will avoid a long term downturn as soon as they are ready for our resources.
This recession has been slowly building for 12-18 months. Friends, family, colleagues and, indeed, people on here were cautiously sceptical when I provided my reasoning for it. I cashed out of all my investments and moved my super into cash holdings last year. I'm lucky I made that decision, others won't be as lucky and I recognise that, unfortunately, there will be a lot of pain in the months and, indeed, years to come for them.
The problem is that I obviously couldn't predict the Chinese bat soup flu - this has accelerated the inevitable and acted as an enormous amplifier. I thought this impending recession was going to be bad enough but this horrid disease will exacerbate it beyond anything we've seen in our lifetimes - think worse than the '87 recession. This has me completely and utterly worried for the state of our economy, the state of our collective consciousness and the mental health of average mum and dad's who will inevitably lose their jobs, houses, cars etc. because they're carrying mortgages which they can't afford on a single income should someone in that family lose their job. This recession will cause so much suffering and that's deeply concerning.
There was a particularly repugnant comment earlier in this thread where someone was gloating about them also cashing out. This person clearly knows nothing of how economies work and the devastating impact this will have on all Australians. The only advice I can impart is to be very careful with your money, tighten up those belts and try and squirrel as much money away for emergencies and potentially to buy into the market at the bottom. I truly hope my predictions of a horrific time ahead isn't as bad as I'm pondering and I wish everyone the best over the coming months and years.
you just read my mind and i had planned for the economic downturn but not for the bat soup virus.
It was impossible to predict the Chinese bat soup virus but one only had to ask local businesses, builders, tradies, economists etc. how they were tracking and the signs of economic downturn were there for everyone to see. In any case, we're in for a turbulent and horrid time…
Let's hope that the exotic eating hits a wall, and more tigers stay in tact!
"The only advice I can impart is to be very careful with your money, tighten up those belts and try and squirrel as much money away for emergencies …"
Excellent advice for individuals but an absolute disaster for the economy, deepening and extending the recession (its basically the story of the 1930s). This is why the government needs to print money now, and massively - just like when people hoard toilet paper, when people hoard money the answer is to quickly increase supply to fill the shelves.
Buy more property!
never goes down, yes no one can afford and there will huge unemployment. But I'm sure goverment will try to go back to that once they run of the 3 bad ideas they have.
Yeah we're f'ed
This government are the best economical managers in the world!
Only a matter of days before they take control of the reigns and steady the ship. You only have to look at their stellar performance during the bush fires and kick back and relax knowing everything is going to be AOK.
As long as we continue to lock the useless refugees out, our borders are safe and protected.
If all else fails, we can always knock off to Hawaii for a quick break :)
Blaming government doesn't help, both sides are stuffing up, sometimes you have to pick the lesser evil and make the best of it.
Latest zinger I heard is that this is a democrat plot to declare Trump an unfit president if the entire USA goes into lockdown and install their own Demcrat president with no democratic process.
Classic fake news
We've been in a recession for a few years, the only thing that kept the figures looking good is high immigration.
We have been headed for a recession for a long time, and the government had no plans to spend our way out of it. Events of the last few months have made it undeniable, and the Govt can no longer sit on their hands. It is a fait accompli and I am now concerned about a 'depression'.
Yep. And people wonder why borders weren't closed and country in lockdown earlier. Everyone's so afraid of the virus, no one seems to care what happens after. We're going to be a different country after this.
We are in a recession, heading for a depression. Thanks LNP voters!
Liberal voted causes a recession?
Yep, caused the entire world economy to fail.
There is only one definition of recession - 2 negative quarters - so no, we're not in recession but we are heading into one.
Here is my take on the question.
Recession is two or more quarters of negative GDP (gross domestic product). We're not there yet, but the equities market crash here and globally will probably take us to a depression, a prolonged period of GDP contraction. Markets take the escalator on their way up and the elevator on their way down.
There are a lot of misconceptions about recessions.
GDP is a monetary measure of economic activity. GDP includes both production based and transaction based activities. A house sold and bought for five times in a year is measured in the GDP. A new house build is also included in the GDP. We can easily see the different production contribution in both cases, the difference between consumption and production.
We'll probably see more of the same, a push for the demand side, with lots of money injected in the markets, in the never-failing belief that demand always drives production. There is no consumption without production!
Australia's economy has been built on services for the last few decades:
"Service industry comprises over 70% of the GDP. It dominates the economy, which employs over 79% of the labor force. An indicator of this sector’s diversity employment ranges from high pay to low pay; the part time full time and little skill, semi-skill and low skill and also hold one of the most educated, multi-lingual and multi-cultural workforces globally. The industry also engages tourism, media and entertainment, healthcare, logistics, education, and finance sectors as described below."
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-are-the-biggest-ind…
Many of the non-essential services sectors will crash and burn, starting with tourism, entertainment and international education. We are still getting a lot of the internal consumption supported by the international markets cash (think the Big Four borrowing in the international markets to support the credit creation). This is already in trouble, the RBA just injected 6 Billions in the market a few days ago. More to come, it's fair to suspect that the international funding will dry up. Two of the Big Four got US dollars injections from the US Federal Reserve during GFC, a fact not widely known.
There are plenty of recent recessions to help model the societal, political and economic behavior. This is my take, not financial advise, consult a professional for that.
Non-essential consumption is in the process of crashing.
Credit creation, the normal injection of cash in the economy, will crash as major economic activities driven by credit will slow down significantly, think new cars, another house, renovations, international travel (yes, people borrow money to go on holidays) etc.
Banks exposed to subprime and derivative markets (most if not all large banks) will get in trouble. Look up for eloquent explanation of what they are by Margot Robbie sipping a glass of wine while taking a bubble bath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anSPG0TPf84 We don't have a Glass-Steagall type of separation between commercial banking (our cash in the bank) and investment banking (playing in the investment market, where you win or lose big). Unless we support a legislative effort to safeguard people's money, the investment banking will keep putting people's money at risk and requiring government bailout. BTW, a cash deposit is an unsecured loan you make to your bank, they can get in trouble and not give your money back. The government has a $250K deposit guarantee scheme that is capped per institution, however it needs to be activated and there is no guarantee there will be enough money to cover it all. This a low likelihood, high impact scenario, I expect the RBA will keep pumping money in the system to avoid it, lending to banks, negative rates, buying the market, all the crazy stuff that Japan has been doing for the last decade, with not much to show for.
Small and medium businesses, the bulk of the employers, will start feeling the crunch. There will be plenty of hard conversations about taking a pay cut, reducing hours, cutting costs etc. in the next few months. Some will lose their jobs.
As a result, more and more people will tighten the belt, contributing even more to the contraction. It's not what we want to hear, but there will be job loses and bankruptcies. A good 30%+ households had financial stress at the end of 2019 (defined as cashflow problems, struggling to support expenses with income). Martin North has ongoing research on financial stress, worth staying current with any developments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeApPnFGJoY
Anyone, individual or business, who can no longer service their debt, will go under, but I expect the government to want to help here, we'll see how effective they'll be. Unfortunately, they still seem to encourage consumption… All the negative gearing will not help when you don't have an income, or you lost tenants. Perth and Mandurah is showing us the roadmap of what to expect when this happens.
Immigration will slow down significantly, on the same model as 2008/2009. There is no point bringing in more people, while people here struggle with income and employment. Some will decide to go back, some will decide to emigrate. Ireland during the GFC is an interesting case study on dynamics of immigration during a recession, Ireland has an economic structure very similar to ours. Plenty of content out there, talk to your Irish mates.
At some point, this will hit the bottom and turn around. I'm looking forward to that!
As a personal note, the images of empty shelves is a big shock to a lot of us. We're are used to full shelves, on-going discounts, fast deliveries and abundance everywhere we go. This will have a memorable impact. Many of us have not experienced a countrywide economic downturn. The last recession in Australia was in early 1990s. The new economic & social environment, isolation, on-going negative commentary, perhaps this one too!, will be a cause of reflection for many. This is uncharted territory for most of us.
All these shall pass, it's not going to be the end of the world. Keep nurturing and enjoying close (but COVID-19 safe) relationships with your family, mates and local community. There is a strong sense of community brought about by adversity. Support and appreciate each other, make sure you find time to ask "how are you?", listen, offer help and support where you can. We're doing it here on OZBargain.
Great post of which most I agree with. There's some speculation that we'll be heading towards a recession/depression similar to, or worse than, what we experienced in '87. I'm inclined to agree with this postulation and you summary would also lead a reasonable person to conclude the same. In my opinion, we're in for some incredibly tough times - worse than many on this forum have ever seen before.
There was a recession in 1987?
I enjoyed reading this and wish to subscribe to more of your thoughts.
Didn't read it all, as its too long. But gave you a like for the effort.
Simple way to get out of this is to start a World War III…. who's with me?
Thank you @cartesius! I also thoroughly enjoyed this well-educated read! Where can I subscribe to your youtube/podcast/newsletter?! (serious)
Agreed with most of the above! Don't forget that prior to the current epidemic situation, Big 4 were already trading trillions in derivatives/futures & CCC-junk bonds with each other & internationally, and most Aussie large caps are also substantial holders for other large Aussie companies.
At end of 2019, Australian households also had the highest mortgage/financial stress ever.
Significant job cuts across the nation - eg. department stores (think Myers/DJs/Harvey Norman/JB HiFi/big furniture stores/maybe Bunnings), leisure/tourism/cruise companies, education, restaurants/cafes, fitness industry, other SME's, airlines, construction, property investment, real-estate agencies, engineering, mining/oil, etccc.
Add halt in import/export (70% directly with China); + predominantly service based economy; + no wage increase (whilst top managers are getting $(6-7 figure) salaries AND bonuses); + families with no emergency savings; + leveraged households (mortgage/CC/car loan/insurance/medical/kid's childcare and education).
Mix that into the pot and you are looking at significant arrears & mortgage defaults. With the banks seizing your property and them having no seller to sell to, the Banks can go into a systematic collapse. This is of course while the RBA are printing to infinity to save Australia from the greatest depression in the history of Australia - undoubtedly bigger than '87, and '29.
Mind you this time around, we don't have a huge stimulus package from US or China to save us like they did in '08. Also add a 10yr+ growth of the property wave (which means more individuals/Banks are leveraged).
Consider that Baby Boomers are now retiring with no certainty around Super/pensions, some Gen-Xs were not largely affected, and us Millennials have NEVER experienced a recession.
Thanks again @cartesius for shouting out @MartinNorth from @DigitalFinanceAnalytics. Also worth checking out @JohnAdamsEconomics if you want to stay relevant with the current Australian economics.
You'd be wise to put your head down and use this time to get educated, prepare, get creative, find out how to generate other income sources, budget and cut unnecessary expenses, actually read (for once) the T&Cs of your Super & insurances, and most importantly, protect your family. Rest is also important, but don't waste your entire life watching back to back seasons of Netflix or playing video games - moderation is ok.
Us Aussies have the generous nature to come together and help each other/communities in these times of need, and we will continue to do so. Look out for your mates, stay strong and positive! Sending everyone much love!
Economy's (profanity). Hope no-one becomes on of those dole bludgers everyone spits on.
There's next to chance we'll escape a recession, and it's possible we may even see the depths of a depression before too long.
the majority voted for a stupid racist government, and now we all get what we deserve for allowing our country to be destroyed.
Translation:
Everyone I don't agree with is a racist/Nazi, and we should be happy to blame them for a worldwide pandemic started by and spread by the communist Chinese.
Synoptic:
China is at fault.
Even if it is not.
Full stop.
@LFO: They started the virus, kept quiet about the virus for weeks/months, spread the virus, and now use their propaganda to try and pin blame on the US.
@mick123: That is interesting…
But how stupid "they" are.
Their own population got it, had to build hospitals (they are bloody quick, eh!) and stop work exporting goods to the world.
How stupid "they" are.
Let's hope "they" don't do it again with another nasty virus and the next time is really really bad and could kill hundreds of millions not 5,000+.
@LFO: LFO - do you work for, or support, the CCP? It seems like it.
I never said they are stupid - they are corrupt, inhumane, and many other words I could think of, but most are not fit to print.
If you instantly believe, as the media seems to be reporting, that there are no new cases, remember that news in China is regulated by the government.
Your comment:
"Let's hope "they" don't do it again with another nasty virus and the next time is really really bad and could kill hundreds of millions not 5,000+."
Your comment:
"China is at fault.
Even if it is not.
Full stop"
These comments from you completely oppose each other.
do you work for, or support, the CCP? It seems like it.
Childish answer ozbargainer …
"Are you being paid to rubbish the CCP (whatever that acronym is)?"
Sounds silly, doesn't it?
Get rid of all hate and animosity and analyze the facts:
A human virus purposely released by a country before a vaccine for all their citizens?
A country that needs to export what their citizens produce to achieve growth and harmony? In an otherwise poor and underdeveloped country (growing fast but essentially poor).
A country that benefits absolutely nothing out of the pandemic?
Not plausible.
Except in Sci-fiction movies.
translation:
I like to attribute fake statements into anyone's post because I believe I can do whatever I want online, and the fact that this country was decimated by predicted hellfires and people lost their lives because of cost savings is of absolutely no consequence to me…because I am of those who voted for this pathetic bunch of selfish pollies.
So the interest rate will go to 0 or what? Can it go into negative/deflation? IIRC there's monetary and fiscal policies to revive the economy, right?
IIRC there's monetary and fiscal policies to revive the economy, right?
Well now interest rates are almost at zero I suppose we're just left with quantitative easing.
So the interest rate will go to 0 or what?
0.25% seems to be the RBA's lower bound for the cash rate, but they could go zero if they want.
Can it go into negative/deflation?
Negative interest rates are very different to deflation. Deflation is about the price of goods going down over time, negative interest rates is where you have to pay to keep your money in the bank.
IIRC there's monetary and fiscal policies to revive the economy, right?
Well cutting the interest rate and QE (more cash in the economy) are the monetary policies available). Stimulus packages and tax breaks, etc are the the fiscal policies. But Liberals hate spending money, so, doubt that will be enough.
Sure are, just need those 2 negative quarters of GDP now.
I still feel the stock market is oversold or certainly been preemptively sold off very aggressively. If it collapses 5% a day all the way to a recession being declared big business will have very little value!
Hospitality and tourism might have gone down the drain.
There is still a shortage of farm workers to pick fruit and manufacturing jobs to keep us stocked with toilet paper etc.
that's because this great government wanted to jack prices and prevented certain groups from being pickers anymore illegally via backpacker tax 'The tax on working holiday makers was introduced in 2017 and meant any foreigner on 417 or 462 visas who earned under $18,200 would need to pay 15 per cent tax, unlike Australians who were not taxed on similar earnings.'
Add in the grievous racist exploitation of pickers by hundreds of farmers, and the hellfires and the current situation is coalition created.
Coalition solution is to give more tax money away to the same racist exploitative farmers… who voted for them. And that's a lot more than the sporting clubs vote rigging
Add in the grievous racist exploitation of pickers by hundreds of farmers, and the hellfires and the current situation is coalition created.
I would have to agree with this one. I have family living in a farming region. It is like the mafia there. Tradies want 50% more and it is only 2hrs away from a major city. There is the exploitation obviously but also a closed shop regarding the industry because they want to close it to outsiders who want to break in so they can monopolise profits.
Share market is heading well under 5000 now i reckon we are heading for a depression - i can see a number of small-medium businesses closing their doors and larger businesses like Qantas laying off a large number of workers
One of the people i work with was telling me her brother in law owns a bunch of restaurants in Sydney and he had to sack two thirds of the staff he had (ie all casuals or probation staff) - I imagine a number of businesses are feeling the same pressure
I know not everyone believes in god but all i can say is unless you are a scientist or medical person all us regular Joes can do is pray and exercise the cautions that the government have put in place.
God bless you all
This problem caused by greed. Government who wants to keep things going as they are.
Once COVID escaped from China all air and high speed passenger transportation except for bare essentials should have been haulted. Find everyone infected and treated them. Pause on all payments and the markets. Those who are in financial trouble get people in (accountants) to sort them out with a bridge loan. Would have taken 60 days.
Now we are going to have a 6 month slow motion replay of 1000 car autobahn speed car crash.
How it came to china is the subject of interest, and the fact that the US was relying on useless test kits for months after…as well as labelling the dead flu victims instead of covid.
trumps statements about how it was safe for the infected to continue to go to work etc etc obviously played a part in its spread..
Oh definitely tanking. Immigration is driving GDP, and even with local market performance aside we would be sliding downhill. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-31/fact-check-pauline-ha…
Banks are not going to want people to default and those with capital to move in…because those that have capital won't be handing over interest…so i think you'll find banks reduce their rates to 0% and allow this mad period…at least in the short term, to subside. Then have all their customers go back to paying them interest for the next 30yrs to life.
The same will be true of rent. If jobs bottom out and the economy tanks people wont be able to pay for things at all. So having houses sit empty and unbought doesn't do anyone any good. Someone in a house has a better chance at staying on their feet than being on the street.
Good luck, mate, the banks haven't even passed on the rate cut so far.
Good luck, mate, your fellow australian can't even consider then needs of another person for toilet paper and food never mind giving you free rent.
Not everyone is uncaring, thankfully, or it'd be a pretty ugly world.
Banks don't win trying to sell a devaluing house that won't cover the cost of the mortgage owing. Nor will they likely get ongoing returns on that money for years.
Similarly…if a home owner decides reducing a lot or evicting their tenants, they might end up with an empty property anyway..so no income, no chance on an income because lots of people wont be able to cover rents, chance of an empty house being vandalised.
Especially where banks are offering the ability to pause mortgage repayments - mine in particular is offering people that for those that have lost work from the corvid fall out. It's already happening.
God forbid we think some people and organisations might be led by decent humans that care about not just other humans…but their long terms income streams.
Depression or Recession? I think we're more likely heading for depression.
This is going to cost everyone a lot. Some more so than others.
More like depression
Depression I think. We are stuffed.
Wouldn't the whole world is in recession?
IMHO it's not going to be as bad as so many think.
Of course there will be pain, but it will be short-lived. People are panicking and reacting to social media "experts" and generally doing what people do when things like this happen - Panic! (and buy all the toilet paper??).
Many businesses we handle are able to ride this out for some time.
Goldman Sachs believes it will be relatively short term.
Define short term, 6-12 months or 12-24 months? Meanwhile businesses like Qantas has put 20k people on unpaid leave. Yep of course businesses will ride it out. But what about your neighbours? Remember there is no vaccine, we are heading into flu season and have only Just started this ride. We are screwed.
Yes
Whole world will unfortunately go into recession because of the bad decisions governments made. Why lockdown entire nations? Look at south korea how they handled it. They didnt restrict travel of the whole country. They just isolated the affected areas, tested, traced and disinfected. Their covid numbers are currently one of the best in the world.
In saying that i think scomo was correct in not shutting down restaurants and schools.
80% of cases have been from overseas travelers coming into the country. So leave the gates open for more to come in. Explain your logic?
IMHO i reckon that 5% of the world population is going to get it or already has it.
The virus is already embedded most countries like australia. We just dont know it yet. the actual number of cases is actually tenfold higher than the reported because people most likely already have it but dont have symptoms and there isnt enough test kits in australia.
Therefore stopping the planes/boats coming in will not matter anymore.
You can't even get tested unless you meet their narrow criteria.
@Levathian: travel stopped indefinitely because of medical insurance companies not covering as much as anything. When covid is already out of control worldwide as it is now that's interesting. When will travel be allowed to resume with covid coverage?
@Levathian: There's a logical reason for this. There's only a limited number of test kits available in Australia and if we tested everyone with a sniffle, we'd be wasting the tests on people who have a cold, not those who have an elevated chance of being exposed to the Chinese bat soup virus evaluated through their narrow criteria. The reality is that there's just not enough test kits to go around and they need to target people who are more likely to have been exposed to it - makes sense in my book.
@gyrex: anyone using the term 'chinese bat soup virus' has an agenda.
its not one that good for Australia.
no test kits after 3 months means no money spent on containment - just like preventing the hellfires and look what that caused - preventable deaths.
pathetic
@petry: My agenda is apportioning blame where it lies. On a government who, because of their duplicitous culture, deliberately suppressed information to international organisations and governments. A government which sat on their hands for weeks/months and let this spread domestically and internationally. A government which allows its people to trade and consume products from morally reprehensible wet markets. A government which imprisoned citizens who dared share the news of this virus to the world - never to be heard from again. A government who's duplicitous behaviour is directly responsible for the economic and social collapse we're seeing. The Chinese government is an abomination - all you pro-CCP shills on here are free to downvote me as much as possible but I detest political correctness and laud freedom of speech and this is the reality of the situation as it stands.
AUSTRALIA has:
1. its own battery of web censors and a secret list of banned websites
2. abandoned Australian citizens all over the world whenever it feels like it .
3. abandoned Assange
4. routinely bullies and abuses its neighbours illegally
5. operates secret courts
6. holds secret trials wherin the people being tried don't even know what they are being charged with
7. raids journalists and arrests them.
mate I reckon you and nelson have a lot in common, cept he's dead and has nothing to say at all about anything….
@petry: If I didn't know you were being serious, the fact that you're attempting to draw a parallel between the Australian government and the Chinese government would be truly hilarious. The fact that you are being serious demonstrates your maligned, disturbing and alarming allegiance to the CCP. If you love China so much, why are you here? You're free to go back to this oppressive, dishonest, morally repugnant, barbarous and corrupt regime.
@gyrex: But you need to test so you can be sure. Look at south korea - 260000 tests completed but only 8000 cases confirmed. Testing verifies information and assists in tracking and tracing source and putting a halt to this thing. If you have no information about your enemy's whereabouts how are going to defeat it?
@mrvaluepack: I agree completely it would be ideal to test as many people as possible but the reality is that we don't have the test kits available and as such, the limited number we do have need to be used on people who's travels and/or environment puts them in higher risk categories. These test kits aren't manufactured in Australia so we're at the mercy of international manufacturers and their supply chain.
Economists call this "lack of general equilibrium thinking". If noone can afford the rent in capital cities noone will rent there - which automatically brings prices down to where people can afford to rent. It's like the Woody Allen joke about the restaurant that "noone goes there because it's too crowded".
Land prices are set by demand for it (as supply is fixed) - that is, the number of new households beng formed. Building costs by wages and materials. Investment returns make little difference in the long run because they adjust to these, not the reverse.