To Wear a Mask or Not to Wear a Mask? What do you really think?

Aerith-Waifu on 18/03/2020 - 18:06
Last edited 19/03/2020 - 21:59 by 1 other user

Well, we all been told not to wear a mask unless you are sick. But is it really the right thing to do?

Just like the toilet paper, the government keeps telling us there is enough for everyone, just wait two weeks. Now I have waited for 4 weeks and I still can't get any.

China and South Korean at the height of the Coronavirus epidemic people have been told shops won't allow people to enter without a mask on.

Here in Australia whenever someone wears a mask the others just give you the death stare.

As many people don't even know they had the Coronavirus and still going out to shopping, picking up the kids, how is that helping by not wearing a mask by others?

When speaking small particles will coming out from the mouth and be airborne, so having a mask on should help the others who are not infected. Now the whole of EU has put on the masks finally, especially Italy.

Maybe its time for the government to say its time to put on a mask?

What do you guys think? Please discount the fact you cant get any at the moment, if you can get them, would you put it on?

Thanks to synaptec for providing a sensible article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-…

Are we doing enough? First hand experience from an return passenger:

https://www.traveller.com.au/coronavirus-in-australia-i-just…

And here in the West we are starting the community transmission of the Coronavirus:

https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/perth-…

Poll Options

  • 109
    1: I will use a mask if they are available
  • 78
    2: I won't use a mask even if they are available
  • 10
    3: Not sure to be honest
  • 5
    4: Just in time for FF7 Remake, RE3 Remake, TLOU 2, CyberPunk 2077
Health & Beauty COVID-19

Comments

  • mujitee on 18/03/2020 - 18:10
    +15

    I believe one of the reasons for being told not to wear a mask unless you're sick is because of the shortages for masks. If everyone who wants to have one, buys one (and most likely stocks up on them), there will not be enough for those who actually need them.

    • jjjaar on 18/03/2020 - 18:19
      +5

      Exactly. We have hospital workers / others in health care who don’t have access to them at the moment, then people using them but touching them every 5 minutes and pushing them down to eat, effectively wasting them.

      • bobbified on 18/03/2020 - 18:53
        +7

        We have hospital workers / others in health care who don’t have access to them at the moment

        Except we've got governments treating us like idiots by saying that they don't work but healthcare workers are at risk if they don't have them. They should just say straight out that there's a shortage.

        • jjjaar on 18/03/2020 - 18:54
          +1

          Wholeheartedly agree.

        • Aerith-Waifu on 19/03/2020 - 16:10
          +1

          I totally agree

        • mattyman on 19/03/2020 - 23:12
          +4

          There are two issues here.
          * The type of face mask. A Bunning's face mask is going to protect you from nothing, but they will help you to limit transmission if you have the virus and are wearing one.
          * Hospitals need their P2 rated face masks. But even with these, the staff dropped like flies in Italy.

          • systema on 22/03/2020 - 20:38

            @mattyman: You can get P2 rated respirators from Bunnings. BTW, P2 is a rating for respirators (whether they are disposable or not), not masks.

        • SlavOz on 23/04/2020 - 19:04

          They should just say straight out that there's a shortage.

          Yep, and you'd probably be the first guy to complain when shopping centres get overrun with violent crowds of people pushing your kids or elderly nan out of the way to get the last remaining face mask.

          The government assured us that there's plenty of toilet paper to go around yet that didn't stop people from displaying the worst of the human condition. What do you honestly think will happen if Scomo went on TV and said "yee masks are really important they can stop you from catching the disease and dying, but we don't have enough!"

          • bobbified on 23/04/2020 - 19:43

            @SlavOz: And lying about them not being effective has helped the situation, how? We're lucky our situation hasn't got any worse, otherwise good luck trying to now tell people to wear them to minimise infections.

            You're one of those who now think the masks/respirators are useless, aren't you?

            when shopping centres get overrun with violent crowds of people pushing your kids or elderly nan out of the way to get the last remaining face mask.

            You'd probably remember that we had bushfires before all this and they were already all sold out.

            • SlavOz on 23/04/2020 - 20:48

              @bobbified:

              And lying about them not being effective has helped the situation, how?

              It has minimised demand and prevented a mass outbreak of violent mobs fighting over something the government would've deemed "essential to your livelihood". I'm not saying that was the right decision, but it was a reasonable and understandable one. Face masks are worth wearing but there's simply not enough to go around so the government had to put people's mind at ease by instead focusing on more practical disease prevention measures such as social distanncing, washing hands etc.

              Face masks are one of many prevention measures against the virus. There are other, perhaps even more important ways to reduce the spread so the risk of causing mass violence over fighting for them was simply not worth taking.

              You'd probably remember that we had bushfires before all this and they were already all sold out.

              Bushfire smoke wasn't killing thousands of people a day and spreading all over the world. Masks wouldve been nice but they weren't really essential. It's a completely disingenuous comparison.

              • bobbified on 23/04/2020 - 21:07

                @SlavOz:

                It has minimised demand and prevented a mass outbreak of violent mobs fighting over something the government would've deemed "essential to your livelihood".

                It has minimised demand? Demand has been crazy - it's just that there hasn't been enough to meet the demand.

                Bushfire smoke wasn't killing thousands of people a day and spreading all over the world.

                I wasn't comparing the bushfires to this virus. I said that we had bushfires before this virus and that is part of the reason we don't have enough masks/respirators to go around right now.

                • SlavOz on 24/04/2020 - 00:03

                  @bobbified:

                  It has minimised demand? Demand has been crazy - it's just that there hasn't been enough to meet the demand.

                  Demand wasn't high enough to force people into harming their fellow kin, but it certainly wouldve been had the government encouraged face masks.

                  Yes the demand was still there but not on the level of "I will gouge your eyes out for this last face mask".

                  • bobbified on 24/04/2020 - 08:37

                    @SlavOz:

                    Demand wasn't high enough to force people into harming their fellow kin, but it certainly wouldve been had the government encouraged face masks.

                    Did you see anyone harming anyone else for them in other countries where the masks were recommended or compulsory?

                    • SlavOz on 24/04/2020 - 20:21

                      @bobbified: No, but I also didn't see people harming each other for toilet paper in other countries.

                      Sadly, Australians are not as peaceful and civilised as we'd like to believe.

  • Derain on 18/03/2020 - 18:16
    +19

    I'd prefer a mandatory policy to wear masks in public to be honest. The problem isn't so much with healthy people not wearing them or not but with people who are clearly sick NOT wearing them. The number of times I have seen people blatantly coughing on the train, at shops etc without any regard for others is staggering…Also a mask reduces the chance of you touching your face unconsciously.

    Disclaimer: the above is only assuming there is mask for everyone, which at the moment clearly isn't nearly enough.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 18/03/2020 - 18:26

      That I can relate to, working on the weekend and see at least half a dozen people coming to the store coughing and sneezing don't cover up…………

      Then they touch this and touch that…………….not a good feeling when working

      • Muzeeb on 18/03/2020 - 18:38

        sneezing

        This is not a symptom of covid-19

        • wallet72 on 18/03/2020 - 18:47
          +6

          not directly, but anything that tickles your nose can cause a sneeze and then the droplets become airborne.

          So sure, sneezing is not a direct symptom, but can be a secondary symptom and still cause the spread of the virus.

    • bobbieb on 18/03/2020 - 18:39

      Looking at it a slightly different way…

      1. The likelihood of catching a virus from a casual encounter with a carrier - ie. crossing paths, riding a bus for a few minutes, etc - is pretty much zero.
      2. If they're sick, then they shouldn't be knowingly out in public. A flimsy cloth mask isn't gonna stop them shedding their bugs all over everything that they touch. That applies equally, if not moreso, to COVID-19… if you're infected with no symptoms, then you're doubly oblivious the the fact that you're likely contaminating everything that you touch.
      • havebeerbelywillsumo on 18/03/2020 - 18:49
        +1

        "If they're sick, then they shouldn't be knowingly out in public"

        Idiots and the selfish will always be immutably uncaring though.

        • SBOB on 18/03/2020 - 18:52
          +2

          Idiots and the selfish will always be immutably uncaring though.

          Exhibit A - every grocery store at the moment ..

        • bobbieb on 18/03/2020 - 18:54

          Very true.

          Nonetheless, you wearing anything less than a properly fitted (fresh - you can only use a filter for so long) N95 mask isn't gonna protect you from them.

          Especially when you get home, let your guard down, and reach for the can of whatever that you've just bought.

        • payton on 18/03/2020 - 23:04

          Idiots and the selfish will always be immutably uncaring though.

          Exhibit B

      • SnoozeAndLose on 18/03/2020 - 18:53
        -2

        Even in the same lift without talking and coughing for 2 mins, it is how the virus spread in Korean. In the same time kids worn mask didn't catch it, only adult catching it.

        • bobbieb on 18/03/2020 - 19:07
          +2

          Unlikely. Generally you're looking at 15-30 minutes of close contact.

          Person to person spread of coronaviruses generally occurs between people who are close contacts with one another. A close contact is typically someone who has been face to face for at least 15 minutes, or been in the same closed space for at least 2 hours, with a person that was infectious

          Sounds doubly bogus given that the cloth masks the people tend to wear about don't actually protect you from other people, so unless the kids were wearing n95 (there are no n95 masks certified for use on kids) the story was fake.

          • SnoozeAndLose on 18/03/2020 - 19:09
            -3

            @bobbieb: Up to anyone who read it trust it or not, better be safe than sorry.

      • JimmyF on 18/03/2020 - 19:18
        +1

        The likelihood of catching a virus from a casual encounter with a carrier

        It can be detected in the air up to 3 hours later, so yeah I don't agree with this.

        If they're sick, then they shouldn't be knowingly out in public.

        Haven't been reading much about it then? You can be 'sick' without any signs of being sick. So spreading it around while out in public appearing fine. It also presents as the flu in lots of people, so lots of people drug up and carry on about their day.

        A flimsy cloth mask isn't gonna stop them shedding their bugs all over everything that they touch.

        True, but it will filter and stop you ingesting the airborne droplets.

        As for touching things, washing hands will solve that.

        • bobbieb on 18/03/2020 - 19:39

          It can be detected in the air up to 3 hours later, so yeah I don't agree with this.

          Yeah… therein lies the problem with a lot of the clickbait headlines. The studies that underly the sensational headlines always emphasise that detect does not equal viable, letalone at a level high enough to infect someone.

          Haven't been reading much about it then? You can be 'sick' without any signs of being sick. So spreading it around while out in public appearing fine.

          Hehehe… I actually mentioned this in the post earlier above, so yeah, I know. :)

          True, but it will filter and stop you ingesting the airborne droplets.

          Actually, no. That takes a properly fitted N95 or N99 mask. Cloth masks are great at soaking up the stuff you exhale directly at the mask, but since there's no seal, you're not breathing through it. The air you inhale flows around the mask, droplets and all.

      • Aerith-Waifu on 18/03/2020 - 22:17

        Not true, some health workers are now getting them. From where? Patients of course

  • havebeerbelywillsumo on 18/03/2020 - 18:46

    Need another 3 Poll options

    Would you shave off heard and wear a mask.

    Have beard that I intend to keep, mask useless.

    Risk of virus is real but now so overdone that I'm ignoring the whole mess.

    (if you could get a mask)

    • JimmyF on 18/03/2020 - 19:20

      Have beard that I intend to keep, mask useless.

      It is true you don't get the best seal with a beard, but a mask will offer more protection than just your beard alone aka no mask.

      • roastchook on 18/03/2020 - 19:47

        The seal is very important if you are dealing with chemicals, like varnishes, inks, xylene etc as the vapours seep in. But as I understand it, the masks used for this virus is to stop coughs and stuff from entering your mouth/ nose. But, hey, scary time for all, and the worst part is that my 83 mum refuses to take it seriously, she has her grandkids at her house now. Say safe people

        • JimmyF on 18/03/2020 - 20:41

          the worst part is that my 83 mum refuses to take it seriously

          Oh noz…. So sorry to hear :(

          My folks in the late 60s are taking it seriously, even though they are in a low risk area. I'm thankful they are doing this.

  • synaptec on 18/03/2020 - 19:01
    +10

    Masks do provide a level of protection against SARS-CoV-2, the SARS like virus that causes the COVID-19 disease.

    This protection doesn't just magically apply to health care workers. All wearers can gain protection by wearing masks.

    Yes, the type of mask (dust, surgical, n95 respirator) matters, as does the fit of the mask to your face.

    The Government message is designed to try and manage supply so that our most in need (health care workers, infected and vulnerable) people can access masks. As such, saying they don't work for healthy people in their day to day regular lives, is a lie. They are damaging people's trust in them and that's not good.

    Would I - a currently pretty healthy person - use a mask for my personal protection or forgo the mask for the benefit of the greater good, and especially health care workers etc? I haven't been panic buying bog rolls either. +virtue signalling+

    This opinion piece I found in the NYT is a good and relevant read.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-…

    cough

    • havebeerbelywillsumo on 18/03/2020 - 19:10

      Good god, a sensible article, will wonders never cease. Thanks.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 18/03/2020 - 22:18

      Good article. Putting in the description

    • NigelPearson on 19/03/2020 - 08:53

      masks do help if they are used properly, but you gotta have them fitting well, change them every 20 or 30 munites, wear fresh gloves to change them, et c. For full protection you also need goggles.

      P.S. how many people do you see wearing masks loosely, pulling them down to eat in public, wearing them over their mouth but not over their nose, adjusting and touching them constantly?

    • zoe hart on 19/03/2020 - 16:11

      Great article. Thanks for sharing.

  • DBBROS on 18/03/2020 - 19:01
    +1

    People with cough or flu like symptoms yes and no for the others

    • Aerith-Waifu on 18/03/2020 - 22:48

      What about they don’t wear them? I have not see anyone who is coughing wearing a mask. Hence the question

  • Doyen on 18/03/2020 - 19:14
    +1

    We will need to save the masks for antivaxxers?

    • Bargain80 on 19/03/2020 - 12:57
      +1

      no need. they need to get the virus to build their immunity.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 19/03/2020 - 16:12
      +1

      They are a different bunch

  • JimmyF on 18/03/2020 - 19:14
    +1

    Well, we all been told not to wear a mask unless you are sick. But is it really the right thing to do?

    Have we? Haven't seen that. I'm wondering if this is just gov spin for the fact there is a mask shortage in this country as the bushfires cleaned the country out of masks before COVID-19 came along. The message overseas seems to be a bit different and China was certainly pro mask.

    Here in Australia whenever someone wears a mask the others just give you the death stare.

    In recent days I've started to wear a P2 mask (new) when out and about in the stores. I'm just in and out, but still.

    I've had this mask for ages (so no, not stealing from health workers etc) and yes you get some death stares indeed. Australia needs to grow up, people wearing a mask doesn't impact them. I do this to protect myself from others who don't know they are sick, coughing/breath around me when out in public. I care for people who are in the 'high risk' group. So I really can't get COVID-19 myself as I risk passing this on to them.

    • NigelPearson on 19/03/2020 - 08:56
      -1

      had the mask for ages? Then it is used, potentially infected, and should be thrown out!

      Unless it is a respirator style (with screw-in filter element that you have changed every day)

      • JimmyF on 19/03/2020 - 09:56
        +2

        had the mask for ages? Then it is used, potentially infected, and should be thrown out!

        Yes had the mask for a while. GASP these masks are used for other things than smoke and virus outbreaks.

        I got a 10 pack way before the virus outbreak and the bushfires.

        They come individually sealed, so if you think its been infected while in storage in my shed, sealed in plastic then yeah….. I've got bigger things to worry about.

        • NigelPearson on 20/03/2020 - 09:29

          Aah - an unused mask you have had for ages. That is OK.

          I was thinking of one individual mask, being worn for days or weeks, and then being put back on a hook near the front door for the next time you head out :-(

          • JimmyF on 20/03/2020 - 09:33

            @NigelPearson: Sorry yes should have new had this NEW mask for ages. You can get a few uses out of them, when you take them off you should be putting them into a bag so they don't spread what is on the outside around and you need to wash your hands too.

  • brendanm on 18/03/2020 - 20:16
    +1

    I can get masks, and don't wear them, it's not hard to wash your hands, also not hard to not lick your hands after touching random surfaces.

    • CheapskateQueen on 18/03/2020 - 21:43
      +3

      it's the 20 minute train ride with, what, 100 people crammed in a carriage?

      the 8.05ish train i catch is usually, literally, crammed packed with people completely compressed against eachother. sure i aim for earlier or later trains, and now they're not so packed, but public transport is still one of the biggest risks IMO. government can't suspend it though without suspending society which it clearly doesn't want to do because it doesn't think the health benefits outweigh the economic destruction. i don't know any better so i can't comment on what's best. but you don't need to go licking things to get sick.

      I think masks are of limited help when walking down the street.. next to nil..until the person you're walking behind sneezes and you walk right into it. The germs stick around for a while after the sneeze. But bet your butt they'd be helpful on a 20-40 train/bus ride.

      If there were enough masks going around you bet your a$$ they'd be telling us to wear them. There just isn't enough and to "waste" them in situations where they're of minimal use. It's always a balancing act of cost (supply) v benefit.

      • brendanm on 18/03/2020 - 22:43

        I don't generally use public transport, it's gross at the best of times

        There probably would be plenty of masks, but some idiots have bought a thousand of them each in case the end times are coming.

        • Aerith-Waifu on 18/03/2020 - 23:56

          I hate public transport. So many people am who are so dodgy and wants a piece of you. Money, cigs, spare change.

    • ozhunter on 20/03/2020 - 01:20
      +1

      also not hard to not lick your hands after touching random surfaces.

      True, but sometimes the temptation is just too strong 😁

  • jackofspade on 18/03/2020 - 20:17
    +3

    I don't know who to believe but the fact that most people in Hong Kong wear a mask and they only have 167 cases for such a densely populated country. How do you explain the low number of cases?

    • DisneyPrincess on 18/03/2020 - 22:15
      +2

      They shut-down the same time China did: closed school, shops, office workers worked from home, closed public transport. A lot of Hong Kong people with dual citizenship just left because they were worried they’d get locked inside with the virus like Wuhan. The only people I know who still went to work were working in hospitals.

      Also, I think a lot of people in Hong Kong with mild symptoms chose to stay at home & just ride it out rather than get tested. Compared to a colleague I work with who got sent home from work for coughing/sneezing in a hospital. Then decided to go to Movieworld since she couldn’t go to work anyway…

  • MagicMushroom on 18/03/2020 - 20:41
    +1

    My assumption is that doing proper hand hygiene is a lot more effective than wearing a mask (currently), because I don't believe most people wearing a mask today does proper hygiene practices.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 18/03/2020 - 23:54

      Hard to do when no hand sanitizer available. Can’t go to find a bathroom all the time

      • MatthewTeng on 06/04/2020 - 02:52

        And the joys of public wash rooms having to be pulled open by the handle from the inside to escape after you've washed your hands.

        Public wash rooms are terrifying.

  • hasselbladsnapper on 18/03/2020 - 20:59

    This is all a good question, I noted from an article today that it is thought that active virus airborne particles can survive up to 3-4 hours. IF this is the case, when we get a larger populace with the active virus, perhaps it would be prudent to wear a mask in busy locations such as the recently highly crowded supermarkets and shopping centers?.

    I suspect the crux of the situation is an apparent shortage of masks, and I well understand our medical "front line" must be kitted out first for all of our sake's!!.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 18/03/2020 - 23:55

      Medical staff should have first access first. However people should also be vigilant when it comes to coughing and sneezing

  • bryanang on 18/03/2020 - 21:03
    +9

    Im a doc and i am torn about this issue.

    I came from Asia and mask wearing during any flu season is common sense. It prevents sick people from aerosolise droplets when they cough or sneeze, prevent wearer from touching their face unconsciously when wearing them, and obviously prevent inhalation of viral particles when you are face-to-face with a patient. However this is not so much a norm in Australia. What makes this worse is that there are limited supply since January after the bushfire then coronavirus news break. Even in hospital, as of today mask wearing in hospital still not recommended in low risk setting due to concern of potential stock depletion when cases rise.

    Not that I completely agree with this policy, I still follow because there is a reasonable rationale and also in order to achieve a consistency in practice. It’s sad to see people are wearing standard hospital issue N95 mask in Aldi yesterday while I am rocking around hospital today with a naked face.

  • Godric on 18/03/2020 - 22:24
    +1

    I see alot of people not even washing their hands after exiting the toilet, good luck getting them to wear a mask

    • kahn on 18/03/2020 - 22:36
      +1

      Poppy's a little sloppy.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 18/03/2020 - 22:47

      Oh dear……

  • myusername on 19/03/2020 - 05:42
    -5

    at this point in time you're an idiot for not wearing a mask

    it's past the point of only sick people wearing masks.

    stop and think about it when you tell me i shouldnt be wearing a mask because i'm not sick.

    when in our society do you see aussies wearing masks when they're sick?????????????????

    YOU DON'T

    That's why it's time to start wearing the masks. the virus is loose in the community, there are infected people walking around not diagnosed and not wearing a mask.

    call me stupid for wearing a mask i laugh at you with no protection.

    and for all you boomers who say it's only a flu. i hope you get it first.

    • BigBirdy on 19/03/2020 - 08:01

      call me stupid for wearing a mask i laugh at you with no protection.

      and for all you boomers who say it's only a flu. i hope you get it first.

      Fear brings out the worst in people

  • Hedgehog on 19/03/2020 - 08:17

    All very well for those that have hogged all the masks, hand sanitiser and Bog paper. (You are probably s(h)itting pretty) Those of us who listened to the Gov when they said don't panic are probably regretting not joining the stampede to get a small supply. One day it will all be over and we will probably be laughing at our stupidity and forget any lesson we learned during this crisis. Just be kind and think of others peeps.

  • djk on 19/03/2020 - 08:24

    Masks are for ill people, to help prevent spreading infection,
    far better for the ill to stay home instead!

    If you are not ill wearing a mask won't stop you becoming ill but it will use up masks that medical/hospital staff really need.

    IMHO government has handled this poorly, but to flatten the infection rate if at all possible just don't go out is a better option. This is a tough and anxious situation for most people to handle but I think you are confusing anxiety and the facts about masks. Be safe, sensible and cautious and only go out for absolutely essential services.

    • Bargain80 on 19/03/2020 - 13:01
      +1

      you know that wearing mask in China, South Korea, and Italy are mandatory when going out?

      It does reduce the chance of getting infected a little bit and not 100%.
      but also help for carriers who don't have any symptom.
      As some people says, we're told not to wear masks if not sick because there isn't enough stock.
      It's something that government should have prepared in the beginning.

  • Cohey on 19/03/2020 - 09:21
    +1

    I work in community health, we have very limited masks. Current advice is to only wear if working with people who have suspected/confirmed Covid19, otherwise if presenting with respiratory illness, to provide the client with a mask.

    Personally I'm just trying to keep my distance as much as possible but it is difficult in my role unfortunately. Feel like it's only a matter of time..

  • LPV569 on 19/03/2020 - 09:36

    Unless you follow the correct protocols for wearing a mask it’s a waste of time. Nearly everyone I’ve seen has not been wearing them correctly making the whole exercise useless. Masks should be reserved for use by medical professionals and carers of the ill. If you’re unwell, coughing, sneezing stay home.
    “Before putting on a mask, clean hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
    Cover mouth and nose with mask and make sure there are no gaps between your face and the mask.
    Avoid touching the mask while using it; if you do, clean your hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
    Replace the mask with a new one as soon as it is damp and do not re-use single-use masks.
    To remove the mask: remove it from behind (do not touch the front of mask); discard immediately in a closed bin; clean hands with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.”

    • JimmyF on 19/03/2020 - 09:59
      +2

      Unless you follow the correct protocols for wearing a mask it’s a waste of time.

      and most people don't wash their hands as per the correct protocols, so we should just give up washing hands too?

  • OzHunterNSW on 19/03/2020 - 09:52
    +1

    You don't have to wear a "mask" per se…. get a scarf and simply wrap around.

  • Strikes on 19/03/2020 - 11:08

    It seems OP has no idea what is COVID-19, what it does and how it spreads from one to another.

    Masks must be worn by a sick person - who is sneezing and coughing, other people around him must avoid already infected persons'(or people sneez n cough) droplets with wearing gloves or keep distance and avoid touching the contaminated surface (if not a mask worn or not using properly).

  • Bob Svargis on 19/03/2020 - 12:53

    Reading these comments make me realise how selfish a society we've become. Hospitals are forced to ration masks and hand sanitiser yet people are worrying about themselves more than those in hospital who are already sick and need the masks more than you do.

    How do you think we got through the Spanish Flu in 1918? By working together. Some of the comments in this thread are all "me me me".

    I know this because I my spouse is managing an emergency Covid-19 ward in a major tertiary hospital.

  • this is us on 19/03/2020 - 13:05
    +1

    You only use a mask if you are corona positive or have symptoms (to avoid transmission). However, in this situation, you should actually be at home.

    Unless you are a health professional working with patients there is no reason for you to use a mask.

    • Aerith-Waifu on 19/03/2020 - 16:08
      +1

      Problem is many don’t know they are sick yet

      • this is us on 19/03/2020 - 16:26

        That's why people should stay at home as much as possible and avoid social contact… Everyone has to act as someone who is potentially carrying the virus.

        I know you suggested a hypothetical scenario in which masks are available everywhere to everyone… However, we still have to work with reality and the fact that the world (or the country) doesn't have enough masks… If people start hoarding masks, health professionals won't have them and they will be infected and have to stay at home while the health system explodes… We have to think about that as a group or we will be #$%@$% and no toilet paper will be enough to clean the mess.

        • Aerith-Waifu on 19/03/2020 - 17:09

          Well you do realise alot people still think this is just a flu, right?

          Hence many of the 20 year old still going out party. Like a few I am working with

  • Sweet3st on 19/03/2020 - 19:07
    +3

    This article on how to make DIY face masks from Hong Kong Shenzhen University https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/…

    • Aerith-Waifu on 19/03/2020 - 22:35

      This is interesting, but does it actually works?

      • Sweet3st on 19/03/2020 - 22:38

        'Lab tests by City University find home-made masks achieve 80 to 90 per cent function of regular ones in terms of filtration of aerosol and droplets'. Better than nothing and easy to make…

        • Aerith-Waifu on 20/03/2020 - 02:27

          When it says regular, does it imply to the N95 or just normal ones?

  • seele0717 on 23/03/2020 - 00:23
    +7

    Chinese Australian here. I was in Beijing, China at the outbreak of the COVID-19, and stayed in China for more than one month under self-isolation to protect myself from potential infection. And also done my 14 days self-isolation once I am back to Sydney.

    I was reluctant to make any comment on the COVID-19 topic due to the increasing anti-Chinese sentiment. But seeing most people just simply don't take the virus seriously it making me feel extremely sad.

    Based on what I learnt in China and my personal observation, the masks serve two purpose 1. to prevent person who are carrying the virus from infecting other healthy people, 2. to protect the healthy people from contracting the virus.

    It is widely accepted in Australia that the first purposed is true. But sadly many people don't agree to the later one.

    I am not a medical expert nor have I received any training to that field. But I do know that after the 'everyone must wear masks rule' applied in China. China was able to contain the virus within 8 weeks. Massive report about the virus started at about 25 January 2020 and there is only few person to person infection in China for the past week. An absolute majority of recently confirmed cases for the past few days are people recently entered into China.

    Further more there are doctors in China confirmed that after doctors and nurses became aware of the virus and started wear even the 'single used' surgical masks and reuse them for days, there is a significant drop in infection rate to the doctors and nurses.

    We can have all sorts of theories about that. But to me it is reckless of any government to tell its people to not wear masks to protect their personal health.

    Even if the understanding of only sick people need to wear mask is true. Many people don't even know that they have the virus until they become very ill. If you replace the 'mask' with 'condom' it becomes more obvious. The statement can be put as 'only people having sexually transmitted infections need to wear a condom to prevent the spread of the infections'. How many people know they got a STD before it really hurts?

    Some protection is always better than no protection.

    Another issue is many people think its just a flu like illness. To some people (hopefully to most people) this may be true. But it can gets way more serious than many people imaged.

    The death rate in China is relatively low. But that is only because the majority cases were in Wuhan City and the province its in (Hubei). The Chinese government could mobilise the rest of China to support the city and the province. It is estimated that the Wuhan city at the time only have 9 million people in it, and the entire province only have 59 million people. And China has 1.4 billion people. So the Chinese government had room and capacity to fight back. Even so they fought very hard to keep the medical system of the city from collapsing (build hospitals in ten days). And please keep in mind that China is one of the major medical product producer, and major producer of almost everything.

    At the beginning the medical resource of the city was overwhelmed hence the large number of death (Similar to nowadays Italy). It was after the medical supports been poured into the city from other parts of China, you started to see the drop in death rate.

    Australia simply don't have enough resource and support as compare to Wuhan and Hubei. The situation could get way worse than Wuhan.

    My point is that only when there is enough medial resources then you won't have a high death rate. If you look at Italy you would know how bad it can be.

    Also to small proportion of the infected people they may end up with pulmonary fibrosis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulmonary_fibrosis). It is permanent and their life will never be the same as before.

    The Australian government had reacted too late and the virus is spreading rapidly. It would not surprise me if the virus already got onto more than 5000 Aussie. The testing started too late and the capacity is too low. The criteria to determine who gets tested is too strict. Many infected people may be refused to be tested. And to make it even worse we are entering into Winter. The worst is yet to come.

    I have seen that in China, the government had made every mistake the Wuhan City made 3 months ago. And sadly there is no upper institution to save Australia if things go south.

    It hurts me to see people still coughing without covering their mouth on the street, on the train, in shopping centers. The virus lives for at least hours in air and even longer on other surfaces(https://www.prevention.com/health/a31405079/how-long-does-co…).

    It hurts me to hear that the hospitals are forbidding doctors and nurses to wear masks. They are the ones who are fighting in the front line and they are not allowed to protect themselves. If they fall, who is left to protect the rest of us?

    It also hurts me to see people bother rush into shops bulk buying but don't seem to care that they may be infected by fellow shoppers. As I don'd see most of them care about distancing and their personal health. It's a Disney World to the virus.

    At the end, bulk buying toilet paper?? Seriously… Could someone tell me why toilet paper is the most important thing in an epidemic…

    Sorry this comment gets too long. I guess I have hold my thoughts for too long.

    • ozzieblue on 30/03/2020 - 09:50

      It seems pretty obvious to use a mask - there is only the issue with medical staff running out. But really, how difficult can it be to repurpose a factory to start creating masks? Surely the government could organise this?

  • Debuting on 24/03/2020 - 16:14
    +1

    Wear it.

    Ask any medical professional that is up to date on the journals. It's not rocket science.

    Even if you sew your own cotton mask. That is probably better than having nothing. Virus droplets when sprayed usually sit on a water projectile which means it is bigger than the pm2.5 particle. Furthermore it stops you from touching your mouth and nose. Get a 20c dust mask for gods sake if you have nothing else. You've all seen the videos where the health official is talking about not touching mouth and nose and then starts licking their fingers and touching the page. Dust mask will prevent this!

    Most people are going to catch the virus not from someone sneezing but from someone touching an infected surface and touching their nose, mouth, eyes. Wear eye protection too.

    @seele0717's advice is good and from someone who was on the ground in China.

  • Temjin on 25/03/2020 - 11:58
    +2

    I am still surprised why people are still debating this topic.

    The fact is that all SE Asia countries who have FLATTEN THE CURVE are all mandating the wearing of face masks when out and about is one of the strongest evidence of their effectiveness is reducing OVERALL COMMUNITY SPREAD. It is NOT ABOUT preventing yourself from getting infected. The surgical mask has limited effect, N95/P2 are much better but should be reserved for medical staff, but this is about PROTECTING THE COMMUNITY.

    The problem is that Western cultures are based on individualism, whereas, SE Asia countries are more aligned with collectivism. Democracy, freedom of speech, etc, still exist in those SE Asia countries, but during the time of crisis, they all work together.

    Yes, there is a lack of masks here in Australia, but one of the biggest reason, at least more recently, is that the STUPID AUSTRALIA GOVERNMENT is preventing all online marketplace to list these products. There are plenty of supplies from China and they are increasing production day by day, looking to export. Prices have consistently dropped in the past 2 weeks. But what is the Australia government doing? BAN THEM ALL!

    ABSOLUTELY CRAZY! Now my nurse friends can't get them because their hospital wouldn't issue them and they can't buy privately because the government banned them.

  • systema on 25/03/2020 - 16:33
    +1

    At this point of time, peer reviewed evidence specific to CV is probably out of the question as we are less than 3 months from the initial outbreak. Having said that, other clinical evidence around respiratory infections can be valuable due to the similar transmission vectors utilised by CV and other viral respiratory infections such as influenza.

    Current evidence from an Australian study is that masks can prevent 60-80% of influenza infections in a home setting if used routinely. This means masks could be a useful tool in fighting viral outbreaks like the CV. Full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/

    There is also other scientific evidence showing that wearing a surgical mask does provide some level of protection against respiratory infections.

    Case in point, Uchida et al (2016) suggested that "wearing of masks were effective in infection control." https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221133551…

    Systematic review conducted by Barasheed et al (2016) suggests that "Facemask use seems to be beneficial against certain respiratory infections at MGs (mass gatherings)". https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(16)31010-4/fulltext

    While it might not be able to provide the same level of protection as a P2 / N95 respirator, surgical masks themselves appeared to be able to provide at least some protection to their wearers. In fact, research conducted by Radonovich et al. (2019) indicates that "Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31479137

    You may also want to look at some other evidence provided by Siddharth Sridhar, who is a Clinical Assistant Professor at The University of Hong Kong here - https://www.facebook.com/siddharth.sridhar.5/posts/101583870…

    Encouraging people who are displaying symptoms to wear masks and enabling asymptomatic population to wear masks in public / mass gatherings should not be mutually exclusive.

    Argument that the general public are not able to don/doff masks properly or won't don a mask even when recommended should not be a reason for providing this recommendation either - a lot of people don't wash their hands properly, some of them don't even wash their hands, but we don't stop people from washing their hands, do we?

    Furthermore, the current advice appeared to be triggering unnecessary hatred towards those who choose to do so to protect themselves or others - case in point: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-20/coronavirus-hong-kong…

    • Temjin on 26/03/2020 - 10:21

      Unfortunately, this message isn't getting across to our so-called health experts. Either they are ignoring the evidences and experiences of their counterparts in SE Asia countries, or that they know the evidences are clear but refuse to recommend due to lack of masks. Of which the latter is very true, but still shouldn't stop anyone from attempting to supply them to the market via imports.

      Right now, stupid eBay and other online market places have enforced the rules of not allowing listing of masks and respirators for sale by ANYONE, of ANY price, or ANY origin. They are claiming it was mandated by the government but I'm quite skeptic about it.

      Why? Because freaking KOGAN is selling surgical mask, uncertified, non-medical/hospital grade (Civilian grade masks) from China for $70 per 50, at a massive 3-4 times profit. Not to mention that $1299 99L Chest Freezer. Other established online retailers are doing the same thing, but why can't individual sellers do the same to increase supply and drop prices?

      • imcold on 03/04/2020 - 19:27

        Quite a few brick and mortar shop in Sydney also do making wild claims like P2 mask, when they have no verification markings

  • alex123711 on 03/04/2020 - 10:32

    https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1244958907962920964

    Is there anywhere to get a mask for reasonable price at the moment?

    • imcold on 03/04/2020 - 19:22

      Yeah, you can wear a hoodie back to front, and you have a ready to use mask.

      Would cost you $0.

    • SBOB on 04/04/2020 - 18:21
      -1

      correlation != causation….

      • alex123711 on 06/04/2020 - 01:20

        Yeah but what's the damage of wearing one

        • SBOB on 06/04/2020 - 06:30

          a false sense of security that the mask is providing more protection than reality. People not use to wearing them doing so incorrectly, or continually touching and repositioning it.

          The same as the people I see grocery shopping wearing gloves while scratching their face.

          Wear one of you want, but don't pretend that the wearing on one is the reason for the difference in those trends.

          People in China wearing masks all the time, if masks were the difference, it shouldn't have spread like it did.

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