Hi all,
Asking for a friend here, she is not an Australian but she is living here under a working visa as a baker. She's at risk of losing her job and she is worried about keeping up with her rent so thought i'll ask here.
What options are available if a non resident loses their job due to the current situation? Can Centrelink provide any support at all?
thanks
I tried with my agent but he has always been bit dodgy.
Didn't listen to what I said but kept on telling me everything from the news.
Anyways, no rent reduction or any relief for us unless it comes from government itself
tried with my agent
relief for us
I thought you were asking for a friend
Are you one of those tryhards attempting to call people out?
maxmadthecurse on 28/03/2020 - 11:37
Hi all,
Asking for a friend here
fantoo =/= madmaxthecurse
Depends on the country she is from and whether her country of origin, has a reciprocal arrangement with Australia.
As-yet NZ citizen's who arrived after 2001 don't have access to anything in Australia.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/new-social-security-agre…
she's from Taiwan, will have to check on that.
She will need to return to Taiwan if she cannot support herself or get her parents to send financial aid.
Once she returns to Taiwan she will no longer be able to get a working visa again. It will become available for another visitor next year.
She has no recourse for Australian welfare.
One consolation is she can take her employer contributed superannuation with her.
@Skinnerr: What makes you think you can rip benefits when you are not a resident or citizen of a country? If you want to receive anything you don't go on work visa.
@Skinnerr: dont know why all the negs…
its a fair point
non residents pay tax for their earnings here too.
@Skinnerr: One of the main points of citizenship IS resource management during crisis.. non residents pay tax and benefit from their choice to be in a country with good infrastruture, low crime and other things.
@Skinnerr: Not to be heartless, but she's on a working visa. Ain't no way she is ever paying enough tax to cover an extended stay in hospital with 'the works' (ICU, ventilator, rehab, etc).
@cheaplee: doctors, nurses, engineers, architects, accountants all live in Australia on working visas. Many of them on above $150k a year (I know, low for this website). You'd better believe some people pay enough tax.
@ladybug1: good point :)
probably covered by the type of visa as listed below. The higher paying jobs might be the ones that get the rights
@cheaplee: Absolutely no one does have those rights on a working visa. I hope some do get a bit of help, that is what the AWU is asking for.
@cheaplee: The point of a tax ('social transfer') system is that it is not a 1:1 contribution:benfit… If it is, it fundamentally doesn't work. i.e. those that pay the taxes don't generally need the benefit and those that need the benefit generally can't afford to pay the taxes. It is a given that some will receive more in benefit than they pay in taxes.
That notwithstanding, many working holiday visa workers have come before this person, paid tax (or hopefully paid the tax they owed!) and for the most part hopefully paid more tax than benefit they received. Many of these people will have subsequently returned to their home country and thus won't be receiving pandemic response funded by the Australian tax payers… so theoretically you could say that some of their surplus tax could go to fund any shortfall for this worker.
If we did expect the social transfer system to work on a 1:1 basis, then a similar argument could be made that people new to the workforce, or who have been out of the workforce for many years (parents?) shouldn't get hospital assistance for COVID…because they may not (yet)?) have paid enough tax to cover the value of the medical assistance they may (but hopefully won't need to) receive.
In the case of this person, they should contact Centrelink to see what assistance they are entitled to. If they are not satisfied with the assistance they are entitled to, they should return to their home country.
Could she access her super to tide her over?
One consolation is she can take her employer contributed superannuation with her
That's assuming her employer hasn't been dodgy and not made those contributions.
sadly, that is about right.
shes only on a temporary graduate visa (subclass 485)
thanks alot for this, ill look it up. dont seem like its covered though
It seems baker isn't on the list for that visa type, she may have more success in a field related to her graduated qualification? (also might pay more, who knows?)
Be a little cautious however as I'd imagine that without support it will be difficult for your friend and that working in fields not related to the visa might not be a good thing (again, I don't know, your friend may need to find that out first to ensure their visa status is ok for the job they are doing).
Yes non citizens don't seem to be getting support at this stage, it may change in future but I'd imagine that to win votes looking after those with the capacity to vote will be seen as the gov't priority stream to receive aid.
Plenty of citizens not getting a bean from Centrelink as well, not just PR's/Non-citizens.
I know Aussie citizens that can’t get anything from Centrelink.
How do you know me…
do they live in mosman
Yes but getting paid is nicer than Centrelink
Unfortunately, none. I know quite a few international students who work in hospitality,have lost their job and can't afford to pay their living expenses anymore but also can't go back home because their home countries have closed their borders. It is really sad.
International students are not supposed to rely on work income to support themselves while studying.
They already have sponsors.
but sponsors have similar concerns and they cant go back due to travel restrictions?
their sponsors are usually their parents who are not in Australia.
They should have gone back when they had the chance, like last week and the week before that, and the week before that…I could be wrong,but I don't believe 100% of flights are ground. They probably should be looking at getting out now, as I'm sure the boarders will not be closed for residents of their own country.
@TilacVIP: They stick around because they think staying is better than leaving then realise here it's worsen wants to go back but borders closed. That's the story. Too bad for them.
Yeah, that's how it works in a perfect world. International students are allowed to work 40hrs per fortnight during the school term and unlimited hours during the holidays. Most of them would have factored that in when deciding to come to Australia.Now that they can't work but are still expected to pay uni fees and living expenses, they are going to struggle.
yeah poor things
Yes. Everyone thinks they're loaded, but many are on scholarships from their home country, and some of these are very low. Others have had some parental help, but their parents have made huge sacrifices to give them the chance to study abroad.
Most of them are feeling isolated, worried about their families, study, visa, and money, just as we are.
No one can stop them on cash jobs. However they receive no protection what so ever
Mostly is one time sponser as the currency conversion is much higher here. Also similar conditions overseas and everyone in difficult situation.
Students might be working to support themselves.
They are allowed 20hrs per week to meet their monthly expenses.
Sponsors usually help with UNI fees.
But the reality is that most students come from poor countries and poor families with the parents just having enough to cover first semester fees to send them overseas to study.
I thought international students needed to show significant savings before being granted entry?
My understanding is that they have to show that they have access to funds such as :
the annual income of their spouse/de facto partner or parent
Loans , which should be in the name of the student or other individual providing financial support to the student.
So not necessarily savings. Both of those sources of fund would have been affected by the pandemic.
I am a true blue now, work my arse off to earn that. From my memories back in my day (2005) it is even stricter back then, everything you said, income must be enough to cover expenses, tuition fee, and unforeseen fees, saving must cover the first or and second year. The government probably relaxes the law these days. as for myself, I did not struggle back then thanks to my parents' smart thinking. After all, they are business people and they never do things if they don't think they have the financial support it. i did not do part-time work until uni and I tried to find volunteering in work that related to what i studied. that was how i built up my resume However, when I talked to any international students or scroll through their forum it is always the same story, not enough working hours and such. however when i brought up the subject of how did you prove your income when you handed in your application then? where did that money go, where did that income go? i am pretty much got ignored.
now quick maths
crap low ends up
16x80=1280
okish job
18.50x80=1480
good job
18x80=1680
now those figures is nowhere near Australian standard but it is not supposed to be it is your part-time job, more than enough for share room, share utilities bills and an ok phone
Yes most students are meant to show a few hundred K depending on their country of origin. However to get into the country if they are from a LOW socio economic background what they do is get a loan in a family members name, transfer cash to them selves, show the visa authority bank statements and then enter Australia, return the money and then start working here to make up the expenses. I know the details as my friends have done this. However on the same note Australian authorities loosely regulate this as the students then pump 10k per semester into 2nd tier universities in fees and upto 20k in 1st tier universities so it's a mutual unspoken agreement.
Exactly, most of the students spends at least 70K on their 3 years course and most of them earn and pay Uni, pay their living and study as well.
They pay huge amount of taxes and contribute to the economy of this country as well.
@Love a bargain: Well, i know lots of international students and non-residents.
I havent encountered single person not lodging tax so far.
People get into real problem when they dont do tax return every year.
They are afraid they will get deported. Therefore, all of them do a tax return.
@Love a bargain: They would need to notify the ato in order to retrieve the employer contributed superannuation on the way out of the country.
Not sure they’d earn much more than 18k, so good incentive to lodge a return to get a refund. They may be paying 50% tax if they have no TFN.
What they do is get an agent to transfer money into their bank accounts and produce a statement. Money is transferred back and immigration is none the wiser. They use their student visa to work full time for cash breaching their visa conditions and undermining the labour market for Australians.
@Icecold5000: That old chestnut. That type of racial stereotyping worked so well for Brexit, didn't it? The reality is that many of them are working in jobs that can't or won't be filled by Australians, such as carer roles in nursing homes.
@Lastchancetosee: Where did I mention race in my post?
At this point in time it looks like there are so many Aussies unemployed that jobs will be filled easily. Bad luck for some I guess.
@Lastchancetosee: Yes, young Australias all feel entitled and regard caring for senior citizens as beneath them; they expect to be given easy, high paying clerical jobs tailored to their snowflake sensibilities. We have enough potential workers, but Milennials and GenZ don't won't to do hard or unglamorous jobs.
They use their student visa to work full time for cash breaching their visa conditions and undermining the labour
If that was the case, why would DFAT turn a blind eye to it?
That’s not quite true.
Evidence of financial capacity is limited to students either from a high risk country (level 3) studying at a medium risk education provider (level 2); or a medium risk country (level 2) and high risk education provider (level 3),
There are three evidence levels for country and education (1 being the lowest, 3 being the highest), using a risk methodology that looks at historical visa compliance, rates of visa refusals (including and excluding fraud), and frequency of applications for Perfmaneny Humanitarian Visas. These Evidence Levels combined determine whether a student has ‘streamlined’ student visa evidentiary requirements (where evidence of financial capacity isn’t required), or ‘regular’ evidentiary requirements.
Countries like India, Pakistan, Kenya, and a number of others have an Evidence Level of 3.
The evidence required can be fixed term deposits, loans, or family income. But it’s never as much as a few hundred K. It’s generally equivalent to a year of tuition, a year of living expenses, Overseas Student Health Cover, and the appropriate cost of return flights.
The great majority of international students need to work to support themselves financially while in Australia. A significant exception is students who are fully sponsored by their own government. These are usually students from the Middle East (Saudi Arabia, Oman, Kuwait, etc), as in addition to having their tuition fees paid for them, they receive a stipend/salary.
mate it all comes down to dodgy documents. I already said it to Jar Jar blinks reply you have to prove all your financials to the government before they grant you visa and somehow when you come here and that money disappear then you are a fraud, im sorry i have to say it.
So what did they do?
How is that unfortunate? None citizens have no rights for our taxpayer money. It's ridiculous to even suggest it.
What about the tax money they paid?
@pyramid: No but they should be allowed to access their super without being double-taxed like everyone else and have reduced tuition fees for those who have been forced to move to an online learning environment rather than the campus experience they signed up to.
@[Deactivated]: You made valid point JJB but what most of them would be expecting is some sort of financial support etc which i don't think should be allowed. I work hard whole year and pay tax…why should my tax money be spent on foreigners….
@pyramid: Who knew the government was reading my comments on OZB? ;)
The Morrison government says temporary visa holders with work rights - including international students - will be allowed to draw on their superannuation funds to help them buffer the economic impacts from the coronavirus pandemic.
The changes apply to the 2.17 million temporary visa holders in the country.
Acting Immigration Minister Alan Tudge said the new measures recognise the importance of temporary visa holders to Australia's economy and society.
What about the public services they use?
Dude, there are plenty of people in this country who pay taxes and aren't citizens. For instance NZ citizens who are here under the trans Tasman agreement, or permanent residents who are eventually going to take up citizenship in this country. Or other people who come here to live for some years just like Australians go live in the UK or other parts of the world for a few years. It's their taxpayer money, too.
I have paid more than half a million dollars in tax to the AU gov in the past 10 years … "your taxpayer money"
Since I am a NZ citizen on the special category visa, I have zero support available from the AU government.
Not complaining, but adding a data point re citizens, residents and rights.
Well that’s absolute bullshit for a start. Never been to the doctor or hospital in the last decade?
@[Deactivated]: They may not have a medicare card. Even if they did, I think you're missing his point.
@PR0r: No, he’s missing the point And you’re missing the point. The rules are clear. They are there for a good reason.
Any reason you haven't got citizenship yet? you are eligible.
I'm in the same boat btw
They are still people who are struggling in our country who are trapped here?
Talk about insensitive yikes.
Not eligible
Can't they go back to their country? I mean the border is not closed to their own Citizens.
This
Incorrect, some borders are closed even to their own Citizens.
I'm gonna need a citation on that.
@SkMed: Do you have a citation? Otherwise, "you're a random person on the internet, what's not to trust?" /s
If it's information from a friend of a friend or something similar, I think that should be called out. Otherwise, you're making it appear like fact without any citation to validate the point.
@S2: Yes, My citation is my Colombian partner. I'm sure youll find the info online if you look. No residents of Bogota are being let out or in at the moment. They had a deadline to come back into the City and now anyone outside the city must stay out until its lifted.
@SkMed: Having a city (Bogota) go into lockdown is very different to Colombia denying entry for their citizens. Whilst locked out of the city, those individuals are still in their country. I looked and found evidence that Colombia has not locked it's citizens out of the country. Have you tried looking? If not, perhaps you should stop claiming facts based on your partner's comments.
@S2: Sorry, you're correct, Colombia has not directly closed it's borders to its citizens, however Bogota definitely has. There was talk of extending that Colombia wide but doesn't look like that's happened (yet).
That being said, all of Colombia's boarders are currently closer via Sea, Air and Land, so even if a citizen wanted to return they literally have no way of getting there, especially from Australia. So Colombia have effectively closed their borders even to their own citizens indirectly without saying so. It's the same for quite a lot of countries so its impossible for a lot of people currently here in Aus able to return to their country of citizenship at the moment even if they wanted to.
Also, Ecuador HAS closed it's borders even to citizens and residents though if you want an example of one country who's taken the extra step of saying so publicly. It's actually stated in that list you've cited above.
@SkMed: Thanks, I'm very surprised by Ecuador's decision. I also agree that closing borders basically means airlines and cruise ships cancel services and people have no way of getting to another country even if they desperately need to. This applies to Australia and any other country.
I wonder if she can negotiate with her landlord about her rent. It's not like he'll easily find a replacement in a moment like this.