COVID-19: Tenants & Landlords (Residential)

Armin65 on 17/04/2020 - 10:19
Last edited 21/04/2020 - 10:02

Good morning fellows

I'm renting an apartment and with current situation, my and my partner's working hours have been reduced :(
I tried to negotiate with property manager to reduce rent for 3 months, but they rejected and said you should pay in full; go and seek financial support from Centrelink, etc etc.

I am just curious why government is not stepping in to help out. I've got a few friends who have got their loan suspended (by just paying interest only) and they reduced their asking rent from their tenants accordingly. If that is the case for my landlord too, yet still forcing me to pay the rent in full, they are simply making a good profit while their tenants and other people are in financial challenges.

Let me do some calculations: The apartment I am living in worth around $400k. Even if 95% of it is on loan ($380k), below is the outcome from CBA calculator:

Interest Rate: 2.79%
Principal and Interest repayment: $1560
Interest only repayment: $1061
Original rent: $2100

So, as landlords are paying around ([$1560-$1061]/$1560=) 30% less, some leniency from landlord is expected.

My simple suggestion to Government is:
If a landlord ask their bank to put their investment loan on hold, they have to reduce their asking rent for their tenants accordingly.

This way, we are all sharing the pain together on this by helping each other; otherwise, it will end up with many broke people, and an unsafe/unhealthy community.

I am not working today, probably like many of you, so I thought it is good to share this with you. What's your opinion?

update1:

Thanks for those giving valuable insight on this thread…
To give everyone an update:
I finally found another nice place…well, smaller but much cheaper [apparently LL are desperate to find a tenant and I had enough room to negotiate for the rent ^-^] which is more than enough for us now. I gave my current property manager a notice that I'm vacating in 4 weeks. He called me straight away that LL is happy to offer 30% rent reduction for 3 months if you withdraw your notice.
And I said:

NAH MATE, TOO LATE … THANK YOU!!!

p.s. I also mentioned that due to current situation, I won't be comfortable to let other people in for inspection while I am still here :)))

Financial

Comments

  • Chang1992 on 17/04/2020 - 22:37
    +2

    Firstly, depending on the landlords financial situation, they might be able to afford the mortgage repayments plus maintain, bills etc. even without your rental income. So why should you expect the landlord to put their investment loan on hold. This will make the landlord paying more in the long term.

    This way, we are all sharing the pain together on this by helping each other; otherwise, it will end up with many broke people, and an unsafe/unhealthy community

    Sounds like from the above, you have some savings for a rainy day. I guess this is your rainy day and you gotta dig into that savings. Also, with in this lock down, your monthly spending should have decreased with less cost associated with travel, eating out, going out etc.

    Time to suck it up Princess.

    What's your opinion?

    It sounds like you think the world revolves around you and that people should give you a helping hand just cause it benefits your situation.

  • whooah1979 on 17/04/2020 - 23:10

    Look for another rental that is cheaper. Apply and move out when they accept your application.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 17/04/2020 - 23:26
    +3

    "Principal and Interest repayment: $1560
    Interest only repayment: $1061
    Original rent: $2100"

    Lol you forgot to add in the 3-4k body corp cost for the apartment, insurance, rates, also maintenance cost and property manager fees….

    "Interest Rate: 2.79%"

    Big assumption even in a low interest rate environment it is difficult to get investor loan from a big four at that rate without fees

    As for 'sharing the load' there is no sharing in your scenario - LL will have to pay the interest in the end you wont have to pay the rent?

    I dont want to be unsympathetic because it sucks you are off work but not all LL are rich and there is a lot more to 'renting out a property' then most people think

    So you also need to take into account if LL gives you reduced rent LL insurance WONT cover the difference if you decide to not pay

  • od810 on 18/04/2020 - 00:14
    +1

    Are you happy if your landlord reduce 15% rent for now and you pay back later on? because that's pretty much what the banks do to landlords. You have to remember not every one can refinance at this stage. I know investors on 4% interest rate right now.

    • Ctn on 18/04/2020 - 01:24

      Don't forget the interest on the deferred rent, that's what banks do to landlords with their mortgage repayments.

  • Milk tea on 18/04/2020 - 00:43

    Access your super and take out 10k and another 10k next financial year in a few months if you're struggling so badly. Landlords have mortgages, bills, insurance and maintenance they have to pay too and the most banks do for a landlord is put a hold on payments for 6 months but interest is still accruing. You also stated that you have more than 5k in savings so it's unfair to assume a landlord is rich enough to just reduce rent unless you are going to pay the whole lump sum in 6 months

  • AlexF on 18/04/2020 - 03:17
    +1

    Determine what you can afford and ask landlord for commensurate reduction. If landlord refuses find another place and move out ASAP. Recently, landlords have been in privileged end of negotiating table but tide’s turned.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/04/2020 - 03:57
      +3

      It would appear that OP is more interested in calculating his landlord's finances rather than his own.

      • AlexF on 18/04/2020 - 14:21
        +1

        Nothing wrong with knowing facts before a standoff. (Through lawyers, accountants and unfair government policies) landlords have been getting subsidies by way of tax discounts for far too long time - if can't make profit without subsidies, get out of business. OP's only mistake is posting on OzBargain - too many entitled landlords here.

        • [Deactivated] on 18/04/2020 - 15:03

          Nothing wrong with knowing facts before a standoff.

          I wouldn't call OP's calculations above "facts".

  • simonjb on 18/04/2020 - 06:48
    +6

    Pay your rent. Stop expecting other people to provide your expected level of comfort in life If you can't pay for something in your life you should not expect it to be given to you cheaply. Sell your personal items to pay your rent if it's so important for you to have the apartment. Calculating what you think your landlord pays for the mortgage is very short sighted. Let's calculate all the crap you've bought on ozbargain and spent on non essential purchases in your life and figure out what savings you should have right now, that would be used to keep you off the street.

  • baker bob on 18/04/2020 - 07:24
    +5

    You are about 30% too low in your cost estimation.

    You forgot: Council rates, water rates, strata, repairs, landlord insurance, agent fees. Investment loans are priced higher than PPOR loans, is the rate you are using correct?

    • simonjb on 18/04/2020 - 07:28

      …

  • athk on 18/04/2020 - 07:25
    +3

    The home loan is only part of the equation, strata, utilities, council rates and roperty management fees should be added to any monthly calculated sum and that's at minimum, don't forget repairs & insurances..

    I really dislike it when people just compare the home loan, WeLl My ReNt Is $200 MoRe ThAn ThEiR moRtGaGe.

    It's Ludacris.

    • simonjb on 18/04/2020 - 07:29
      +3

      Typical though, not wanting to pay rent, calculating on the wrong rate, not including actual costs and then looking for a handout from a private citizen to preserve his savings. Talk about the perfect example of a stereotype.

      • athk on 18/04/2020 - 07:42
        +2

        I put it down to being uneducated on the subject, it's going to be a huge shock when they purchase a property they think they can afford and get slugged with all the "hidden" fees.

  • giftcardinspector on 18/04/2020 - 08:45
    +2

    you forget rates, insurance, body corporate, real estate fees, annual bank fees and property maintenance.
    These also need to be factored in before you can even begin to assume monthly costs for a landlord

    • cmafra on 19/04/2020 - 12:07

      depreciation, and how could you assume that the Landlord has also not lost his other incomes or jobs? If he has any.

  • Duckie2hh on 18/04/2020 - 08:54
    +1

    Who's going to cover the extra interest costs over the long term in going with interest only repayment?

    It's typical for renters just to think about themselves.

    • parsimonious one on 18/04/2020 - 10:41
      +1

      Haha… won’t somebody think of the poor people who bought/ own more properties than they can possibly live in.

      Landlords. The true victims of COVID -19.

      • athk on 18/04/2020 - 13:24

        You shun someone for trying to better their future, how positive of you.

        The way I see it is it has both ways, your mum and pop investors will be hurting as well..

        Of course you'll get scumlords as well, not all landlords are that bad* some of us do have empathy…

        • parsimonious one on 18/04/2020 - 13:50
          +2

          “ You shun someone for trying to better their future”

          Not at all.

          I do criticise people who have such little compassion they are willing to turn the screws on someone in hardship.

      • Duckie2hh on 18/04/2020 - 14:13

        Okay so the landlord's work hard to be financially independent, whilst you lazy sods queue up for the pension.

        • parsimonious one on 18/04/2020 - 14:42
          +1

          Hey Duckie, i think you’ll find for someone to have “lost their job” by definition that means they were working in paid employment… not sure what pensioners you are referring to who are now claiming hardship due to having lost their job.

          Also, ironically, if you as a landlord had been leasing your property to someone who was receiving govt welfare assistance you’d probably have less to worry about due to the recently announced COVID related increases in payments.

          • Duckie2hh on 18/04/2020 - 23:49

            @parsimonious one: I was referring OP's comment on why landlord should cover the costs. What's wrong with buying more properties than you can live in? It means you will be financially independent and not reliant on government pension/be a burden to society.

            • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 00:04
              +2

              @Duckie2hh: Nothing wrong with financial independence.

              There is something wrong with all the wanna be landlords buying up housing stock thus inflating prices and therefore pricing a generation of people out of the opportunity to buy just one house (let alone multiple).

              There are plenty of options in which you can invest. People need homes to live in and “investors” ultimately make it harder for people to own their own homes

  • Ashbargin on 18/04/2020 - 09:05
    +2

    I don’t get it. If you have the means pay your damn rent! Given the drop in hours For you and your partner you can both access some money from your super. If you do this it will likely effect your long term savings, but that is your problem. Not paying your rent effects the landlords longer term Savings.

    • Milk tea on 18/04/2020 - 22:40

      Well hey I suggested accessing super as well but I got negged prob from a renter

      • parsimonious one on 18/04/2020 - 23:43
        -2

        Hey milk tea how’s about you access your super to pay the over leveraged interest payments on your soon to be underwater/ upside down investment loan??

        • Milk tea on 19/04/2020 - 16:16

          You can only take out super if you have a reduced income or lost your job due to coronavirus but hey keep getting upset that some people actually have properties they have mortgages on for renters to rent and my property is doing fine where the tenants are still actually paying rent instead of thinking they are entitled to get free rent like you.

          • PissLUR on 19/04/2020 - 16:18

            @Milk tea: isn't one of the requirements is that you are unemployed?

            • Milk tea on 19/04/2020 - 16:20

              @PissLUR: Requirements are:

              you were made redundant; or
              your working hours were reduced by 20% or more; or
              if you are a sole trader – your business is suspended or there was a reduction in your turnover of 20% or more

              • PissLUR on 19/04/2020 - 16:21

                @Milk tea: To apply for early release, you must satisfy one or more of the following requirements:

                You are unemployed.
You are eligible to receive a job seeker payment, youth allowance for jobseekers, parenting payment (which includes the single and partnered payments), special benefit or farm household allowance.
On or after 1 January 2020, either
    you were made redundant
    your working hours were reduced by 20% or more
    if you were a sole trader, your business was suspended or there was a reduction in your turnover of 20% or more.

                https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/super/withdrawing-and-usi…

                • Milk tea on 19/04/2020 - 16:21

                  @PissLUR: Thanks for saying the same thing as me?

                  • PissLUR on 19/04/2020 - 16:22

                    @Milk tea: one or more..

                    so if you are just unemployed. you can apply for early super release.

  • bigsaver on 18/04/2020 - 10:23
    +6

    If you think it's such a good deal to be a landlord then why don't you become one? It's not charity, it's got be profitable right???
    The real question you should be asking is why you don't have 6, 12 months of emergency funds saved for times like this?

    Own your life buddy..it's such a weak entitled argument..Why don't you move into a share house? I know people who can you live on $1000.. $150/w accommodation (sharing a room!) and the rest for food..

    Sell whatever you can and toughen up.. the world, the government and your landlord don't ow you anything..stopping being a beggar

    • parsimonious one on 18/04/2020 - 15:17
      -4

      It’s seems the little landlord class are oblivious to irony.

      Everything you said applies equally to landlords who may have to accept a reduction in rent:

      • why didn’t you keep 6-12 months of funds handy for an emergency?

      • own your life! (No one forced you to leverage yourself to the hilt)

      • cut back on your expenditure elsewhere to keep up with your payments (ie mortgage)

      • sell whatever you can and toughen up! (Maybe sell that overpriced investment property?)

      No one asked to lose their income source due to a global pandemic. But seemingly the only real victim is the landlord who might have to reduce the rent?! Go figure.

      • funnysht on 19/04/2020 - 10:27
        +2

        Why? The landlords have a contractual agreement with the tenant, and if the tenant can't pay then they can break it.

        It's a bit like buying car and then refusing to pay for the loan and expecting to still keep it….

        • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 12:55
          +1

          Hi funnysht,

          One thing this thread has made evident is that many landlords have a somewhat warped view of reality.

          From your comments you seem like a reasonable person, so i'd like you to consider the following:

          1) firstly despite the assertions of many here, on the whole landlords are not doing tenants a favour/ service. The obsession with investment properties in australia is borne of the relative safety of the investment, which has been supported by various govt policies. Large numbers of investors push up property prices making it harder for people to own their own homes. So despite the assertions here that LL's are some how benevolent humanitarians, they creating a problem not solving one.

          2) I agree that on the whole contracts should be adhered to and enforced. However there are well set precedents of where contracts can be voided due to events outside the parties control (ie force majeure and frustration of contracts see https://www.minterellison.com/articles/covid-19-force-majeur…)

          3) Just because the political and legal system has facilitated a longstanding power imbalance between landlords and tenants does not mean that this is fair or right. Given the clear power imbalance (and is clearly evident on forums such as this) rather than relying on LL's implicit sense of fairness the Govt has implemented policy to help address the power imbalance in a time of an unprecedented health and economic crisis.

          4) also consider a reverse scenario, by your logic, should a tenant whose rented home has been destroyed by a bushfire be able force a landlord to supply them with additional accommodation for the remainder of the lease?? after all they had a contract which stated they would pay $x and receive a level/ standard of accommodation in in return??. In exceptional circumstances, contracts can be altered/voided.

          5) many on here seem to be oblivious to the reality that the Aus economy is facing, if not already in recession. Share prices will fall, rents will fall, super balances will fall and property prices will fall. Evicting people will not result in LL’s maintaining their rental incomes. It will exacerbate the problem.

          It's not as simple as waving a piece of paper in the air and screaming "contract". Even the landlord supporting politicians can see this but apparently many here can't

          • funnysht on 19/04/2020 - 14:51
            +1

            @parsimonious one: 1) No relevance to this thread

            2) So in circumstances where one loses a job in non-epidemics, do you see people enacting force-majeure? It should only be done when there is no alternative, plenty of accommodation. I'm sure paying the rent is not out of the OP's control

            3) No relevance to this thread

            4) Insurance (which most landlords pay) should cover emergency accommodation. Most contracts are drafted to ensure that landlords can vacate properties for emergency repairs, thus landlords are not breaking the contract.

            5) No landlord is complaining that prices have fallen. They're complaining that some tenants are using this as an excuse to reduce their rents (like the OP).

            You're right it's not simple as waving a paper, but negative gearing, rising property prices etc are no reason why the OP's rent should be reduced

            • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 15:03
              +1

              @funnysht: Ah funnysht… i am disappointed.

              1) entirely relevant to point out the holier than thou sanctimonious attitudes of LLs is not warranted/ justified

              2) this is a pandemic and plenty of contracts are being voided by force majeure. LLs are not some protected group.

              3) entirely relevant as the reason LLs are squealing is because the govt has sought to level the playing field between LLs and tenants

              4) I’m surprised you think that LLs should pay tenants expenses if the house isn’t liveable. Good on you!

              5) LLs on this very thread are complaining that they aren’t able to get the same amount of rent as usual as a result of the pandemic.

              Hopefully these events lead to long term legislative change to give tenants more rights, discourage some little landlords from their feudal aspirations and pop the property bubble so people can once again afford to purchase their own homes.

              I live in hope and time will tell.

              Maybe they’ll abolish neg gearing to pay for all this. That will help to achieve some of the above

              • funnysht on 19/04/2020 - 15:06

                @parsimonious one: So do you feel that the OP is justified to ask AND receive a rent reduction given his circumstances?

                • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 15:14
                  +1

                  @funnysht: Probably yes, the OP should be given some rent relief from LL.

                  OPs hours have been reduced due to COVID19. The economic downturn has meant that interest rates have dropped and concessions are being made on investment property expenses.

                  Thus Covid19 has meant reduced costs to LL and reduced income for OP. If LL evicts OP they likely won’t get same rent (if they get a tenant at all). Temporary partial relief as requested by OP doesn’t sound unreasonable.

                  • funnysht on 19/04/2020 - 15:27

                    @parsimonious one: I would have thought the force majeure you're talking about applies to dire situations, not the odd case of the tenant can afford to pay but wants to save $$.
                    I thought that sounds more reasonable but i guess each to their own. Would you also agree when interest rates go up, investment property expenses go up, the tenant's rent should be increased above what they're paying now even if it's within contract?

                    • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 16:21
                      +1

                      @funnysht: Yeah exactly. One person’s version of “reasonable” is different to another’s.

                      Covid = reduces interest rates and various other concessions for LL’s which put $ in their pockets

                      Covid = reduced income for some tenants which means less $ in pockets

                      Govt policies have been exceptionally accommodating to residential property investors for decades. It seems pretty clear to most, including the govt, where concessions can be made (hint: it’s not trying to squeeze covid impacted tenants)

                      Like I said hopefully some long term changes will come of this all

                  • ongrudy on 19/04/2020 - 16:14
                    +1

                    @parsimonious one: What if the landlord is on fixed homeloan? The expenses have not dropped.
                    Can landlord get the bank to reduce the fixed interest rate too?

                    • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 16:31
                      +2

                      @ongrudy: They probably can get relief from the bank.

                      I find it a tad ironic/ hypocritical that the same people on here who deride tenants for being irresponsible with balancing their income and expenses and not saving for unforeseen events seem to have no end of sympathy for landlords who have leveraged themselves to the hilt during an ever expanding property bubble.

                      Apparently when the house of cards gets rattled peppery speculators cry poor.

                      Renter loses income - too bad so sad. Should have been more responsible than to lose your job/hours

                      Property investor potentially loses rental income - oh the humanity

                      We live in quite a world

                      • ongrudy on 19/04/2020 - 16:40
                        +1

                        @parsimonious one: But shouldnt it be fair that if landlord provide rent reduction from the agreed fixed term contract, the bank should also provide interest reduction from the agreed interest rate?

                        If bank is just providing relief in the form of deferred payment, then tenant should only be getting relief in the form of deferred rental payment. Which mean OP should be on payment plan where he needs to pay back the rental owed once his work hours is back to 100%.

                        • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 16:44
                          +1

                          @ongrudy: Sure. I agree that seems fair.

                          As long as the OP can pay it back over the 20+ year course of the loan though too

                          • ongrudy on 19/04/2020 - 16:46

                            @parsimonious one: Of course the term can be negotiated. If both parties agreed, it can even be three generation debts.
                            So first thing the OP should have asked is a payment plan.

                            • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 16:52

                              @ongrudy: Well I’m glad you agree that some form of rent relief is in order. It’s just the specifics that would need to be determined.

                              That’s a good step forward compared to most the posters here whose first response/ instinct is to squeeze the tenant until they crack then turf the out on the street.

                              • ongrudy on 19/04/2020 - 16:58
                                +3

                                @parsimonious one: All this needs to be negotiated between landlords and tenants.

                                We dont want wealthy tenants who choose luxury lifestyle and can afford to keep paying their luxury lifestyle to take advantage of COVID19 situation.

                                Landlord needs to understand tenant's situation but tenant needs to do the same. The last thing we need is for all the landlords to sell their investment properties and reducing the numbers of available rentals. Properties will drop in price but not everyone can afford to get mortgage.

                                • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 17:23
                                  +1

                                  @ongrudy: Have +1.

                                  The only thing I disagree with is the issue of reduced numbers of rentals if investors sell.

                                  Obviously this is technically true but if investors sell the same number of dwellings still physically exist and a significant proportion of those properties will be bought by owner occupiers (many of which are currently renting but can’t afford to buy at current prices).

                                  So whilst yes, the number of rentals would drop so would the number of renters.

                                  You are right that there would still be people not in a position to buy due to lack of finances but these folk wouldn’t be able to pay much rent either thus rental prices would need to drop or places would sit empty.

                                  I’m surprised investors can’t see that that is a situation the govt is trying to avoid with its residential tenancy policies

                                  • funnysht on 19/04/2020 - 17:32
                                    +1

                                    @parsimonious one: Think of it this way..would you be happy to pay a 30-40% of your income to help with these residential/tenant policies so tenants like your OP can live at a reduced rent, because that is what the OP is asking the LL to do…? It's easy to suggest policies when it's not your money.

                                    • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 18:00
                                      +2

                                      @funnysht: I do pay 40+% of my income to support a myriad of govt policies many of which I disagree with.

                                      And I suspect when all this covid business is over I’ll be paying an even greater proportion of my income to cover everyone who has their hand out for $ now.

                                      It’s the price we pay to live in a society

                      • funnysht on 19/04/2020 - 17:28

                        @parsimonious one: ""I find it a tad ironic/ hypocritical that the same people on here who deride tenants for being irresponsible with balancing their income and expenses and not saving for unforeseen events seem to have no end of sympathy for landlords who have leveraged themselves to the hilt during an ever expanding property bubble.""

                        Yes but the LL isnt asking the tenant to foot the bill are they? Meanwhile some tenants feel they can ask the LL to pay for them.

                        Like i asked…if you're happy to reduce rent prices when rental expenses are down, are you happy that we increase rent prices within contract times when rental expenses go up?

                        • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 17:53
                          +1

                          @funnysht: The fact that you fail to see the difference in the situation of a landlord vs that of a tenant is troubling.

                          People need housing/ shelter (it is considered a basic human right)

                          No one needs an investment property.

                          Here is a link that may assist

                          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_housing

                          If you are inclined you can familiarise yourself with other human rights… though if you are looking the fundamental human right to own an investment property I’ll save you time… it’s not on the list.

                          Landlords chose to be in the business of providing an essential human right for profit. That has certain responsibilities attached to it.

                          • funnysht on 19/04/2020 - 19:20
                            +1

                            @parsimonious one: No one needs an investment property…except for the tenant that wants to rent. Yet you're saying no one needs an investment property?!?

                            You probably need to look up human rights yourself>>"right to an adequate standard of living"
                            If the OP gets evicted, plenty of places with adequate standard of living available to rent at the moment.

                            • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 19:26

                              @funnysht: shrug hey don’t take it up with me, take it up with the federal govt.

                              They are the ones who have decided you little landlords can’t just go around turfing people on to the streets… sorry I mean into another “adequate standard of living”

                          • surm on 19/04/2020 - 23:23
                            +2

                            @parsimonious one: Food and clothes are human rights as well, so are the shops required to give free or discounted food to the COVID-19 affected tenants? :-)

                            If not, why only landlords are required to subsidise?

                            .

                  • lockmc on 19/04/2020 - 19:14

                    @parsimonious one: Who says the landlord hasn't fixed his interest rate??

                  • Milk tea on 19/04/2020 - 21:36

                    @parsimonious one: Landlords aren't allowed to evict tenants for 6 months and OP says he has more than 5k in his account to pay the rent. He just said he should be entitled to rent relief because everyone else is.

      • bigsaver on 19/04/2020 - 19:08
        +3

        Talk about lack of logical thinking…The landlord hasn't asked any favours, I don't get the relevance of your points at all but will try to enlighten you anyway.

        I think you might be overthinking things a bit. You pay for the right to live in a place. If for any reason, you can no longer pay, you approach the landlord and say you have to break the lease/vacate the property. It us up to the LANDLORD to offer you something, only and ONLY IF it's convenient to him.. What you are failing to see if that the landlord might have other options, e.g. decide to sell, might decide to move in himself(if they are a rent investor), put a family member/friend in there temporarily..all those options could be better than taking a 30% cut on the rental income.

        Again it's the landlord who will make that decision.. you simply move on with your life into a share house or cheaper area..no need to worry about the landlord's side of the story..if they can't afford it's then their problem.

        • parsimonious one on 19/04/2020 - 19:18
          -2

          Not sure what you are on about… landlord decides this, landlords decided that etc

          Perhaps you have not seen…but the govt has blocked landlords from evicting tenants who have had their income impacted by covid19.

          You must have wandered on to the wrong thread. It sounds like you were looking for a thread about feudal landlords where you can boast about how you are the arbiter of all things relating to your tenants.

          On this thread people are discussing whether it’s right that the govt has put a moratorium on evictions and whether tenants should be afforded protection if they claim they can’t pay due to covid.

          • funnysht on 19/04/2020 - 19:25
            +1

            @parsimonious one: "On this thread people are discussing whether it’s right that the govt has put a moratorium on evictions and whether tenants should be afforded protection if they claim they can’t pay due to covid."

            That's exactly what bigsaver is arguing about..

          • bigsaver on 19/04/2020 - 20:50
            +2

            @parsimonious one: Well let's just say I don't believe in free lunch or charity coming from the government or landlords. What boggles my mind is this crisis barely started and people are already crying for help.. What happened to taking responsibility for their own lives? I hope what comes out of this crisis is that everyone builds up at least 6, 12 months of emergency funds savings before they consider buying a car or any other crap. I think all these handouts are a slap in the face of the ones who "deprive" themselves so they can walk with their own legs when sht happens… I guess people thought it would never happen? how naive.. or maybe most people expect lenience.

            "So, as landlords are paying around ([$1560-$1061]/$1560=) 30% less, some leniency from landlord is expected."

  • sauce2k on 18/04/2020 - 10:48
    +9

    OP you clearly don't own a property yourself and don't understand the other cost associated with owning a property.

    Your calculations and assumptions are purely based on your argument of why landlord should reduce your rent. Honestly reading your response makes me angry and I hope you don't get your way around it.

    "Their job could also be affected, but at the same time, their liabilities (investment loan) have been reduced."

    This is load of crap, how do you know if the landlord is not under pressure of providing for his/her own family?

  • gromit on 18/04/2020 - 10:51
    +3

    except of course even if your maths were right the landlord is not paying 30% less. They are deferring 30%. It would be the same as if you owed me $100 over the next 5 weeks ($20 a week) and I said instead you can pay $10 a week for the next 3 weeks and then $36 for the 4th and 5th week. You have not saved a cent, in fact you have paid slightly more.

    Also if the landlord is in such a desperate situation that they have to get the bank to agree to this then they certainly aren't in a situation to give you much of a discount.

  • Duram on 18/04/2020 - 11:01
    +5

    Where is your emergency fund ? Where are your savings ?

    • [Deactivated] on 18/04/2020 - 11:19
      +11

      He has over $5k in savings but doesn't want to use it.

  • Hangryuman on 18/04/2020 - 11:26
    +13

    I'm a landlord - this year's loan interest is estimated to be around $30K

    this year's other expenses are estimated to be around $37K

    a total of $67K this year for rental expenses

    with 2 nearly empty properties since tenants took flight (literally - back to Korea et al) to go to stay with their families for free - I'm left with the ongoing expenses to pay

    I'm anticipating total rent this tax year to be about $27K less than last tax year.

    Total rent currently receiving about $600pw($31Kpa) which may soon drop to zero if tenants take flight.

    So I'm now cashflow negative - paying net $688pw/$36Kpa out of my pocket for nearly empty properties with no responses to my rental ads while the fewer tenants with money can pick and choose from more attractive newer properties with ever-decreasing rents.

    So remind me again how landlords are 'simply making a good profit while their tenants and other people are in financial challenges' ?

    • cloudy on 18/04/2020 - 21:14
      +3

      This is exactly it.

      If OP doesn’t like his rent, and can leave his rental contract, do it and find another property that is empty, which there are many, and enter into a cheaper abode.

      OP has the right to ask for cheaper rent, and landlord has right to say yes or no.

      There is no freee lunch calling others making a good profit isn’t fair, though negative gearing and 50% capital gains tax discount is pretty close, government subsidy.

      • [Deactivated] on 21/04/2020 - 12:15

        He did, LL offered 30% off later. LL could've been more understanding and did this from the beginning saving EVERYONE hassle. That's the issue, it's the inevitable that will cause massive headaches for everyone that would probably lead to the same outcome. Rent reduction. LL might be offering the place for 10-20% cheaper than he was idk.

        Regarding Hangryuman, I'm sorry for your loss but plenty of businesses are going through the same thing.

    • randomusername2017 on 19/04/2020 - 20:42

      You planning on posting those rentals as a deal.. super special ozbargain 30% off rate?

  • trapper on 18/04/2020 - 11:27
    -3

    Most investment properties are paying interest only already.

    It make no sense to pay down the principle when the interest is tax deductible.

    • Hangryuman on 18/04/2020 - 11:31
      +1

      It make no sense to pay down the principle

      agreed - https://writingexplained.org/principal-vs-principle

    • od810 on 18/04/2020 - 12:11
      +1

      It depends on how log you want to keep it because you tend to pay higher rate on IO loan. Negative gear all you want, but in the end it is still loss making. I personal pay P&I so that I get panic if i am forced to pay it and i can always get a better deal when refinancing.

      • trapper on 18/04/2020 - 16:05

        Yeah there is a higher interest rate on interest only.

        But any money you pay off the principal can't be re-borrowed with tax deductible interest.

        • od810 on 19/04/2020 - 11:33

          It depends, you can draw it out for different investments. I actually draw it out to invest in shares. As long as you can prove the purpose of the capital is used for investment purpose, you are fine.

          • funnysht on 19/04/2020 - 11:46
            +1

            @od810: usually ppl just put in the offset account

            • od810 on 19/04/2020 - 21:18

              @funnysht: Most of the time offset is the way to go. But IO loan is about 0.5% higher than P&I, so it depends on your cashflow, your priority. For me, i am comfortable paying P&I at the moment, and i do refinance for better deal & cashback about once a year, so i can draw equity out anyway.

  • OzHunterNSW on 18/04/2020 - 12:32
    +6

    You still have double income… so why should the LL reduce your rent.

    What happens if one has a baby… are you expecting society to pay for your rent?

    If you are getting enough income, then you have no need to sponge off the Govt/ or land lord

  • SlickMick on 18/04/2020 - 12:37
    +1

    The REIQ sent out a letter to landlords with a petition email to send to Qld premier to try to stop her from implementing Morrison's idiotic ideas into law.
    But she's as bad as he is, so I think will be landlords vs tenants + gov. I'm hoping there can be a class action against the gov for their mishandling of this crisis.

    • Ash-Say on 18/04/2020 - 12:46
      +4

      This should definitely be class action against this stupid 1 sided law.

      Yes the tenants should get help but only if can provide an evidence of hardship. There is no free ride and the landlords are not charity.

  • kml22 on 18/04/2020 - 12:55
    +4

    Finally, they have backed down, which seem more logical.

    The Queensland Government has backed down on its coronavirus rental relief package after the real estate industry waged a public campaign alleging the measures favoured renters over landlords.

    Housing and Public Works Minister Mick de Brenni said renters suffering financial difficulty due to coronavirus would have to provide evidence of lost income if they wanted to be covered by a freeze on evictions.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-04-17/coronavirus-queenslan…

  • captain smash on 18/04/2020 - 13:30
    +10

    If you were my tenant I’d boot you out for this half assed attempt at justifying why a landlord should cut you some slack.

    The landlords mortgage situation is none of your business.
    Spend what little mental capacity you have on your own situation.

    • cloudy on 18/04/2020 - 21:19
      -1

      And take no tenant? Pretty low chance of finding another paying tenant currently

  • jakeau on 18/04/2020 - 14:04
    +5

    I just don’t get the attitude that has emerged from this crisis, somehow the shit hits the fan and suddenly responsibilities and commitments have gone with the wind.

    This sharing the pain bullshit, why I am I sharing your pain? If you’ve just lost your job and already can’t pay the rent you’ve committed to pay it seems like I’m sharing in your poor decision making and past mistakes more than anything else.

  • MrTruffle on 18/04/2020 - 14:11
    +4

    There should be better education for renters as to what expenses are incurred by a landlord.

    It'd help reduce the confusion. When I bought my apartment and mortgage was paid off I was like 'awww yeah no more payments!!!'

    And then had strata fees, rates, insurance, water etc. Strata alone ends up being over $100 a week :/

    Then the building needs a new lift (I don't even live in the part with the lift!?!?) And everyone is on the hook for a $2k special levy.

    Anyway just more understanding from both sides would be good

    • jace88 on 19/04/2020 - 00:51
      +1

      Yep. All those other things add up pretty quickly whether it be inside the unit (appliances, maintenance, pest control, etc) or in common property requiring contributions or special levies. Whilst I don’t disagree that for many landlords the mortgage payments are probably the biggest cashflow, the other expenses aren’t immaterial either.

  • Yotta0 on 18/04/2020 - 15:44

    I have little sympathy for LL that directly contribute the Australian housing affordability crisis. We have the most expensive houses in the world contributed directly "investment" in house. The Land Lords are able to afford half a million to multi-million dollar houses, yet not able spend a few thousand bucks on rates, sewage (tenant pays for water) and insurance in the 6 months? Landlords are going to lose rent and the difference in lower rent if they do not negotiate, because A) Ordinary Australians lose their jobs and go to public housing, live at home or subsided rent and B) Foreigners are losing their jobs and go back home.

    Australia is in huge trouble if no one has a emergency fund that can last at least 6 months, and using renters to pay their debts and living by the paycheck. Renters can get a pass on 6 month emergency, people who can afford to buy a house will buy one.

    • TheBilly on 18/04/2020 - 20:36
      +3

      Not angry at the banks who gave easy credit and caused this whole drama?

      • tikei on 19/04/2020 - 03:06
        +2

        Why not both? Both contributed to it

    • BestofOZB on 18/04/2020 - 23:09
      +5

      Landlords could not "afford" half a million dollar house….instead mum and dad worked very hard to save a "deposit" of 50k to invest into their future…I find so many people here are missinformed.

  • paul11 on 18/04/2020 - 16:42

    Hey OP, Slightly off topic, but I am intrigued what suburb you live in ?

    You mentioned your apartment is worth $400K, and original rent was $2100. That's an annual rental yield of 5.375%. Every year, owner makes $21,500 in rent. Rental yields that high are rare.

    • BestofOZB on 18/04/2020 - 22:26

      For an apartment that is very poor actually!

      Don't forget apartments have strata. Gross yield for houses at 5% is not bad, for units is very bad.

      • Gerry H on 18/04/2020 - 22:46
        +1

        yes strata is a killer

    • jace88 on 19/04/2020 - 00:53

      Let’s not forget who wears a lot of the risks whether it be property values in the market or something more specific to a building like what happened to mascot towers.

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