Some COVID-19 workplace restrictions should become permanent

SlavOz on 08/05/2020 - 10:45

Even after thise whole pandemic is over, is everyone really going to ignore how many positive learning experiences we gained from it? We have basically proven to ourselves that working remotely is a viable long-term option for most companies. Despite some teething issues it's been relatively successful for most workplaces.

We have basically found a way to eliminate traffic and air pollution, which means our environment would be cleaner and there would be less road fatalities. It also means less potential workplace injuries, harassment claims, or exposure to future viruses etc.

Are we really going to return to the barbaric way of stuffing thousands of people into a train carriage at the same time every morning just so they can arbitrarily make an appearance at their office to do something they could've done from home? It makes no sense. Of all the ways society has progressed over the years, we're still using a Medieval approach to work.

Why doesn't the government look at encouraging this model of work long term? Companies should be heavily pressured into doing their part to ease the burden on our roads and public transport by letting people work from home more often. Staggered start and finish times should also be in place permanently -it makes no sense to have the entire country be finishing work at the same damn time.

What are the odds of this being adopted as the new standard?

Education & Work COVID-19

Comments

  • kahn on 08/05/2020 - 10:51
    +16

    12 Years a SlavOz

    • spackbace on 08/05/2020 - 10:56
      +1

      I think it took him 12yrs to narrow down his car choice :P

      • pegaxs on 08/05/2020 - 10:58
        +1

        It's not easy finding a Mustang that hasn't been revved over 4,000rpm. Now, if only they could get one with lane departure warnings for those pesky round abouts…

        • spackbace on 08/05/2020 - 11:00
          +3

          Now, if only they could get one with lane departure warnings for those pesky round abouts…

          How about the stereo plays bowling pin sounds every time it hits a crowd of pedestrians?

        • Inzo on 09/05/2020 - 21:58

          why would you keep it below 4000RPM? such a waste

          • pegaxs on 09/05/2020 - 22:25

            @Inzo: You must be new here…

    • brendanm on 08/05/2020 - 11:06
      +2

      🤣🤣🤣🤣 <4k edition

    • SlavOz on 08/05/2020 - 11:13
      +1

      Haha thank you for bringing this into my life man I nearly died 🤣🤣

      Take an upvote from me personally. Am I really Ozbargains most colourful battler?

      • kahn on 08/05/2020 - 11:22
        +1

        Movie posters never lie.

        • afoveht on 08/05/2020 - 13:07
          +1

          Shouldn't he be squatting?

          • SlavOz on 08/05/2020 - 14:14

            @afoveht: I sent my photo to that group but they never published it :(

      • Icecold5000 on 12/05/2020 - 14:26

        Did you hook up with any chicks from the office with your car?

        • SlavOz on 12/05/2020 - 14:43

          I did get a few bites. Most women at work are married or old (or both) so the Mustang charm is lost on them.

          • Icecold5000 on 12/05/2020 - 15:50

            @SlavOz: You should have done some burnouts with diesel fuel in the car park.

    • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 18:07
      +2

      12 Years a SlavOz

      More like 12 years of social awkwardness .

      • kahn on 08/05/2020 - 18:12
        +2

        That topic was covered in the documentary The Trivial Trials of SlavOz.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 18:20

          I would have gone with a different poster though… But if it's already been covered, it's already been covered.

          • SlavOz on 08/05/2020 - 20:12

            @[Deactivated]: Did you really just pull the old "someone doesn't bow down to feminist nonsense therefore they must not be getting any" card? That's so cute. But seriously I'd worry about your view on women if you think all of them are feminists who judge their sexual choices based on your predefined claptrap. That's very non progressive of you man, all women are independent individuals. They couldnt possibly all align with your worldview and attitudes.

            • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 20:16
              +1

              @SlavOz: Nothing to do with feminism. The phrase I used was "social awkwardness"…

            • Charmoffensive on 15/05/2020 - 12:35
              +1

              @SlavOz: Probably more from the perspective of saying racist shit like "all ethnically chinese people are the enemy" like you did in the beef thread.

              • [Deactivated] on 15/05/2020 - 15:06
                +3

                @Charmoffensive: What completely floored me in that beef thread is that @slavoz came here as a refugee. The irony when the persecuted becomes a persecutor is just next level.

                @Slavoz, we took you in when no one else wanted you. We took you in out of pity.We took you into our fold and gave you a safe home, free from war and persecution.You should always be grateful for that. You don't get to turn around and sow discord and hate in our community. You don't get to call into question the loyalty of 1st, 2nd, 3rd+ generation Australians, whatever their ethnicity maybe.And you don't get to tell any Australians that they need to go back where they came from.These people helped build this great country that gave you refuge when you had nowhere else to go. Try to remember that the next time you're about to spout your usual bigoted, racists, hate-filled rants.

                • Charmoffensive on 15/05/2020 - 21:23
                  +1

                  @[Deactivated]: Especially interesting since the only semi-recent genocides involving the Balkans were Chechnya and the Yugoslav wars (I'm assuming he's not talking about the Nazis or the freakin Armenian genocide in turkey over 100 years ago), both of which were basically perpetrated by Russians and Serbs: Both predominantly white countries. I'm not sure where this hatred for non-white people comes from with that guy, other than his comment that "black kids bullied me in school".

                  I mean, he frequently pissess and moans about immigrants taking away jobs or buying businesses and sending the money overseas etc, yet by his own admission, his family were on welfare for over 10 years and doing cash jobs without paying tax, so welfare cheats to boot. If he read his own life story in a news article, but you changed the ethnicity from "Slavic" to "Chinese" or "Nigerian", he'd be foaming at the mouth to decry the perfidious outsiders.

                  The saddest thing though is quite often his milder, "casual racism" comments on this website are fairly well upvoted. It's usually only when he goes full Klansmen that people go "yeah, that's too far" and downvote him (ands even then, there's a small alt-right userbase on this website that cheer him on from the sidelines like a pack of hyenas).

                  • [Deactivated] on 16/05/2020 - 00:08
                    +1

                    @Charmoffensive: He went on to claim in that beef thread that he is " brown-skinned and born Muslim.. He and his family must have been running away from the Bosnian genocide in the mid-90s.

                    Weirdly, for a brown-skinned person, he once questioned in another thread why it was OK to comment on Trump's orange skin but it was racist to say that "brown people have poo-coloured skin".

                    Maybe, if you were persecuted at a young age for being who you are, you internalise that hate for your 'own people' and start fantasising about what your life would have been like if you had been born a member of the dominant culture, with a different skin colour and a different faith. So you go online, create a whole new persona and live that dream. I bet in real life, he's soft-spoken and meek and those upvoting his comments wouldn't give him the time of day. But online, he's their hero and he feels powerful.

                    Or maybe, he's just a troll and nothing he says can be trusted. Who knows…

                    The saddest thing though is quite often his milder, "casual racism" comments on this website are fairly well upvoted.

                    Casual racism and casual misogynism :/

                    • SlavOz on 23/05/2020 - 09:28
                      -1

                      @[Deactivated]:

                      Or maybe, he's just a troll and nothing he says can be trusted. Who knows…

                      Or maybe people upvote my comments, as you claim, because it makes sense to them, as opposed to the dribbling lies and fake Social Justice Warrior trash that you post.

                  • SlavOz on 23/05/2020 - 09:26

                    @Charmoffensive:

                    other than his comment that "black kids bullied me in school".

                    Never said that, but hey whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. Don't let me get in the way of your illusion.

                    I mean, he frequently pissess and moans about immigrants taking away jobs or buying businesses and sending the money overseas etc, yet by his own admission, his family were on welfare for over 10 years and doing cash jobs without paying tax, so welfare cheats to boot

                    Never said that, but hey whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. Don't let me get in the way of your illusion.

                    • Charmoffensive on 24/05/2020 - 13:29

                      @SlavOz:

                      other than his comment that "black kids bullied me in school".

                      Never said that, but hey whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. Don't let me get in the way of your illusion.

                      Wait a minute..

                      People constantly made fun of my name at school (including black kids).

                      whatever helps you sleep at night buddy.

                      I'd post some of your other racist comments but most of them have been removed my mods for…. being racist. What a surprise.

                      I said all Chinese people are likely under the influence of the CCP, voluntarily or not, which most political commentators would agree with

                      This would be true if the only political commentators you listened to were Ben Shapiro, Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones and Steven Crowder. If you listened to sources which weren't right wing nutjobs, you would never hear anyone even suggest something as foolish and racist as "all ethnic
                      Chinese are CCP puppets." This is the sort of stupid shit One Nation say before proposing that we deport all Chinese people as enemies of the state.

                      I'm honestly not sure how you can say things that are so blatantly racist and still think you're in the right. Take a look in the mirror, buddy and think hard about whether you like what you see.

                      • SlavOz on 24/05/2020 - 15:31
                        -1

                        @Charmoffensive: So you claim that I said one thing, quote me on another (neither of which are racist), then use your falsely validated claim to suggest I'm racist. Just wow. Killing it bro.

                        This would be true if the only political commentators you listened to were Ben Shapiro, Andrew Bolt, Alan Jones and Steven Crowder.

                        In other words, anyone you don't like has an invalid opinion? What a surprise. Let me guess…Ben Shapiro (an Orthodox Jew) is a right-wing Nazi too? You forgot Jordan Peterson, who people like you labelled a Jewish spy and a Nazi in the same damn day.

                        But hey, people with your worldview would only be those silly enough to engage in economic fantasies of Socialism while advocating for a system that has killed millions of people in history. Of course we should take you seriously.

                • SlavOz on 23/05/2020 - 09:23
                  -2

                  @[Deactivated]:

                  What completely floored me in that beef thread is that @slavoz came here as a refugee

                  Did you really just refugees of war to people.who come over here out of convenience or financial gain? Youth.

              • SlavOz on 23/05/2020 - 09:22
                -2

                @Charmoffensive: Way to make stuff up buddy. I said all Chinese people are likely under the influence of the CCP, voluntarily or not, which most political commentators would agree with. China has traditionally used its citizens in this way before.

  • spackbace on 08/05/2020 - 10:54
    -4

    Why doesn't the government look at encouraging this model of work long term?

    No.

    You expect them to reach into their taxpayers pockets to pay private companies, all while losing revenue on public transport and registration costs?

    It'd be up to individual companies to adopt this way of business. As an example, working from home might allow them to hire a stay at home mum part-time, rather than try to find someone full time, thus cutting costs.

    Are we really going to return to the barbaric way of stuffing thousands of people into a train carriage at the same time every morning just so they can arbitrarily make an appearance at their office to do something they could've done from home? It makes no sense. Of all the ways society has progressed over the years, we're still using a Medieval approach to work.

    Once again just trying to incite an argument, or showing a complete lack of understanding of how bad it could really be.

    It's ok, we've all been young once. One day you'll mature, get some life experience behind you to properly evaluate things.

    • SlavOz on 08/05/2020 - 11:27
      +2

      You expect them to reach into their taxpayers pockets to pay private companies

      Paying is not the same as incentivizing. Besides, they're already digging into taxpayers pockets anyway, and spending it on superficial systems. Putting that money towards reducing our death toll on the roads and helping the environment seems like a very reasonable alternative no?

      all while losing revenue on public transport and registration costs?

      They shouldn't be making money off public transport or registration anyway. I don't think risking public safety and ignoring environmental concerns is a valid course of action just because it allows them to continue rorting an additional revenue stream. They already have fines and taxes to cover the costs of managing the roads.

      It'd be up to individual companies to adopt this way of business.

      Of course, all I'm saying is that the government can and should incentivise them with tax breaks. This wouldn't be the first time in history that the government has thrown money at companies to encourage them to get on board with something. It's a common tactic.

      Once again just trying to incite an argument, or showing a complete lack of understanding of how bad it could really be.

      So you're offended by my use of 2 common adjectives and for that reason you think O must be "trying to incite an argument" or lack understanding. There there mate.

      Not sure why you spend your time on a discussion forum when you're notably so agitated by the notion of people proposing ideas different to your own?

  • kanmen on 08/05/2020 - 11:11
    +7

    I was thinking this post was going to refer to practices of hygiene and maybe keeping space between one another, however I for one cannot wait to go back to my office, even if it means I have to wake up early and get on a packed train (luckily, I live so far out that I get on at one of the first stations so I get a seat!)

    At the start of this I was wondering if we would go back to work how it was before in terms of WFH situations. But I miss seeing my colleagues everyday, I miss walking down the road to get my morning coffee and I miss eating lunch out.

    The reality is there are huge unknowns of this time as it relates to outcomes around mental health, productivity and physical health even.

    This article sums it up well, I think

    My point is basically that there is no substitute for face to face human interaction and connection.

    • cacique on 08/05/2020 - 11:16
      +10

      You should at minimum be able to WFH 1-2 days a week.

      There is zero excuse for not allowing that now.

      Im all for some face to face comms too, but its hardly necessary for all jobs especially office ones, to have 100% of the staff there 100% of the time, especially when its proven communication and collaboration tools we have been using work.

      • SlavOz on 08/05/2020 - 11:32
        +3

        Ye this was my reasoning too. I'm not suggesting a complete abandonment of face to face communication in an office. I'm just saying it seems useless to keep overloading the system just so we can meet up in an office everyday unnecessarily. We've already shown we can achieve just as much (if not more) productivity from home. There should be a sensible balance.

      • ssquid on 08/05/2020 - 15:00

        They work now, but if people regularly had 4 days in the office + 1 WFH day it would just become a bludge day where they slept in and slacked off.

        • SlavOz on 08/05/2020 - 21:03
          +1

          Most companies have pretty strong measures to stamp that out. My company never offered WFH but switched to it overnight when the restrictions started and they're doing quite well catching people who may bludge.

          They can track how the laptops are used and there's still work that needs to be done by each employee. An entire day worth of incompleted tasks does not go unnoticed.

          • OzFrugie on 08/05/2020 - 22:04

            @SlavOz: I wonder how would they monitor that..?

            • SlavOz on 09/05/2020 - 09:16

              @OzFrugie: Many people need to be connected to their company's secure network to work remotely, so it's quite easy to tell if someone hasn't logged onto it all day.

              I manage a small team at my company and were encouraged to hold daily video calls with everyone just to make sure they're sitting at their desk instead of sleeping in/going to the beach every morning. Were also told to look out for any other suspicious behaviour like taking 3 hours to respond to an email, not getting tasks done consistently, calls/meeting being taken in the car,etc.

        • jacross on 09/05/2020 - 08:09

          Thats a comm on concern but ultimately a management skill issue. Its very easy to manage wfh staff with the right skills and mindset.

          In my experience it rarely results im bludging. And of course bludging occurs in the offi e too.

    • Ghost47 on 08/05/2020 - 12:19
      +2

      Commuting can be such a massive waste of time though, depending on how long your commute is. Mine can range from 20 minutes each way to about 1.25 hours each way.

      I personally don't mind working in the office, but am warming up a lot to working from home. If my commute is anything more than 20-30 minutes though I'd much rather WFH. The time spent commuting I could be spending doing daily admin stuff. Even the 40 minutes - 1 hr I spend on a short commute can be spent getting more sleep or cooking dinner instead of sitting on a bus or train listening to music or reading (I do like reading but sometimes it's better to do something more productive).

      I think I'd prefer a mix, and that mix being more weighted towards WFH.

    • jacross on 09/05/2020 - 08:07

      I respect people's desires to work in an office more often than not. I certainly hope they extend that respect to me and my desire to not work in an office more often than not.

  • apsilon on 08/05/2020 - 11:46
    +1

    A lot of companies will continue down that road. I know we've announced they intend to reduce travel (targeting 60% reduction) and use more video conferencing and looking to close and consolidate offices and have more people work remotely and therefore reduce costs towards leasing offices etc.

  • kolorijo on 08/05/2020 - 12:08
    +1

    People should stay 1.5 metres away from me permanently after COVID 19!

  • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 14:45

    Why doesn't the government look at encouraging this model of work long term?

    Agreed that minimising travel, especially into already congested areas should be looked into…

    Companies should be heavily pressured into doing their part…

    …but not by heavily pressuring. It has to be voluntary. Whenever any entity is pressured into a conformity, there's always pushback and eventually, loopholes. The winners and oppurtunists are typically typically those who lobbied the rules in the first place. Don't forget the Prohibition Era, Germany's Disarmament Act…

    Staggered start and finish times should also be in place permanently

    In many parts of the world, this is already implemented in some form or another. Many Commonwealth countries adopt staggered school hours (albeit some through necessity) and I can only think of a handful of countries where retail hours are similar/same as office hours.

  • jacross on 09/05/2020 - 08:11

    I think this will push along the move to teleworking but it wont be a grand shift overnight. It will continue to slowly open up as an option/method of working.

  • tabitha731 on 09/05/2020 - 09:22
    +1

    Im one of the few who cant wait to get back into the daily grind, i learnt to f8nd a way to get to live a relatively comfortable life commuting to and from work, by travelling in off peak times, and avoiding crowds, and doing many of my other activities out of work near my work place, so limiting my cummute unnecessarily. I woudl be happy to never hav eto work from home again, unless absolutely necessary.

  • savage bargain on 09/05/2020 - 10:53
    +3

    It doesn't need to be pushed by government - my company is looking at it seriously because of a mix of reduced overheads and a lot of people are happy with being home at least part of the week (there's lots of feedback about seeing pets/family more, reduced travel, flexible hours, etc.). It looks like for us, it'll be a mix of days at home and days at work each week, with the balance depending on the team, role, and individual preference.

    Why would it need to be pushed if there's a cost benefit as well as people benefit?

    Plus, tracking software isn't needed to work out if someone is doing work - if someone's not doing stuff, then there's stuff not getting done. If anything, (at least at my company), it's given managers confidence about remote managing and built more trust.

  • TheOtherLeft on 09/05/2020 - 12:15

    We are contracted to the federal government using their offices. There's no way they would let us WFH on a regular basis due to their management consisting of dinosaurs who think seeing bums on seats equates to productivity.

  • LV-426 on 09/05/2020 - 12:29
    +1

    Will be nice to see some of what has become the ‘new Temporary normal’ continue when things turn into the ‘new normal’. Especially WFH.
    My commute, including driving to station, is hour 30 minutes+ door to door on an express train. So that 3+ hours a day i used to absorb or lose day depending - has now been turned into either working through it productively or spending time with family AND whilst still working regular or in most cases longer days. And oddly the days I work longer then log off, surprisingly at the end feel like I have accomplished more than doing same when in an office and getting home after 8Pm from a 7-730 in office start.

    I personally don’t miss the colleague interaction at all. It is a needless social convention just cos which as all the video and calls that occur from home highlights is not imperative for some business to operate. As others have rightly stated, going into an office building to just all sit in a communal environment to do the same as can be done at home is pointless. Wfh also allows staggered hours to be adhered to neatly.
    If the profession you are in can still function with wfh, then it should continue. If some ppl are desperate for human connection, we need to be respectful of that- yet that should not be in the realm of personal choice to do so vs “you must come in to work and sit at a desk”

    I just really hope that all we are going and have been through, will now stop idiots invading others personal space for no reason in waiting lines, walking around and in general behaviours. As people’s spatial awareness before this happened was appalling- maybe now it will wake some up.. Yes congested trains may occur - but as others have said before me - why are we doing that? Just to rush into a building to be in & on time where we could’ve already been logged in/on working without the hassles or drama at the start or end of our days.

    To see clearer skies and less pollution globally has been a true silver lining blessing against all the horrors.. we can indeed only hope it continues for our betterment and that of our children’s and theirs..

    • SlavOz on 09/05/2020 - 17:10
      +1

      I agree. I'm saving at least 3 hours a day in travelling, getting ready, having breakfast etc. That's literally 15 hours a week saved. I can turn that into work time or simply use it to recharge more so I'm in a better state of mind for the next day. Company wins either way.

      As people’s spatial awareness before this happened was appalling- maybe now it will wake some up..

      Yup. Another thing is the complete zombieness of people in public. Nowadays shopping centres are filled with people rushing to get in and out as fast as possible. Take what you need and leave. Previously we had every shopping centre filled with people just aimlessly wandering around, blocking up walkways, having a mothers group catchup in the middle of the escalator…it was so annoying. People now seem more considerate and wary of loitering around for bo reason.

  • JIMB0 on 09/05/2020 - 12:55
    +3

    The home burglary industry has been devistated by WFH.

  • cfuse on 09/05/2020 - 15:43
    +3

    People need to learn to think from the perspective of others. Like their bosses, or shareholders.

    If work can be done remotely successfully then it can be outsourced overseas too. They don't especially need you, they just need someone that can do the work. If that ends up being somebody in Eastern Europe that speaks perfect English and will work for a tenth of your wage and be grateful for that then so much the better for the bottom line.

    • SlavOz on 09/05/2020 - 17:05
      +2

      Nice perspective. I never thought of that, but I'd argue against the assumption that employers just need "anyone". Skill matters. A company will interview hundreds of people with the same qualifications but they'll choose the one who has inherent skills which cannot be taught or learned.

      Language isn't the only barrier either. There's also culture. Sure some Indian graduate in Mumbai may speak perfect English but is he accustomed to Aussie culture enough to effectively negotiate with people? Probably not. Plus, if every employer started outsourcing to India then the Indians there would eventually raise their wage demands anyway.

      • cfuse on 10/05/2020 - 16:26

        Everyone is replaceable. The only variable is how much of a PITA it is to do so.

        The fundamental issue is that if a job can be moved about without showstoppers then it will receive ongoing financial consideration as to whether to do so. Business runs on the bottom line, everything comes back to that sooner or later.

        Outsourcing jumps around based on cost. For example, India lost jobs to the Philippines for that exact reason back when I was working decades ago.

        This is globalism in a nutshell. Businesses chase economies of cost and scale, and there's no greater expression of that than crossing between economies for a better deal.

  • Gnostikos on 11/05/2020 - 14:56
    +3

    What this BS has conclusively proved in Australia is how many miserable, dysfunctional families exist that are ready to self-implode at a moment's notice, because either spouse cannot stand to be around their family members for more than a few days straight.

    The amount of people I know who are salivating at the mouth for the chance to be back in the office day-in, day-out, specifically so they wouldn't have to be around their families, roommates and/or other co-habitants is pathetic.

    For once SlavOz, you do make a well-reasoned point.

    The 8-hour, 9-5 work day is a holdover from an era where employees frequently died in the performance of their jobs.

    Today, with the amount of unpaid overtime silently expected of employees (which has completely negated the hard-won concession of the 8 hour work day), what can be the harm in allowing people the opportunity to at least not waste more of their life commuting and performing the perfunctory daily "routine" of getting ready for work/meal prep/having your time wasted by a multitude of interruptions throughout the day.

    At the very least, where possible, all jobs should be a mixture of in-office and WFH hours tailored to the employee's schedule for the benefit of a better work-life balance.

    We've had one entire decade of corporate culture paying lip service to the importance of mental well being, minimising stress, increasing physical activity and emphasizing healthy relationships with those close to you, primarily through cheerfully-worded but completely toothless emails and presentations; meanwhile no meaningful change has happened for the past 30 years in working culture.

    • SlavOz on 11/05/2020 - 17:00
      +2

      The amount of people I know who are salivating at the mouth for the chance to be back in the office day-in, day-out, specifically so they wouldn't have to be around their families, roommates and/or other co-habitants is pathetic.

      This was always a common trope. At every workplace, those who stay at the office until late are the 40-somethings + with kids and a family. You never see 20 or 30 year olds or 55+ sticking around after 5. It has little to do with work ethic and more with wanting to minimise time with their family, especially when kids are most needy.

      I'm also worried at how many young people have completely fallen apart due to the social restrictions. Seems like nobody has ever dedicated time to meditation or personal development to the point where they are completely dysfunctional when alone. Thankfully that seems to be changing now as many people are discovering personal interests or other hobbies.

    • [Deactivated] on 14/05/2020 - 20:37

      To be fair, being an introvert stuck inside with extroverts who don't know how to introvert, was not at all what I'd practiced for. It took some adjusting. Many concessions had to be made, mostly on my part. But I've decided I'm keeping the wife, toddler, dog, bunny and chooks. The jury is still out on the pre-teens.

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