High Unemployment and Fruit Picking

nightqueen on 09/09/2020 - 10:39
Last edited 09/09/2020 - 10:40

With unemployment reaching 10% plus and more than 2 million Australians out of work, there seems to be plenty of jobs in fruit picking and at the abattoirs. With our immigration significantly reduced and lots of backpackers leaving australia. We have jobs available, have low entry requirements and low levels of training.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-09-07/backpack-in-you…

Do we need to increase the pay of these 'unwanted' jobs? We might face significant price rises of fruit and vegetables if they are left to rot due to a shortage of pickers.

Poll Options

  • 94
    Fruit picking or abattoir work & contribute to Australia GDP
  • 217
    Collect job seeker or job keeper and chill at home
Education & Work

Comments

    • netjock on 12/09/2020 - 16:53

      Magic money tree of tax payers. Or this idea of MMT where you can just keep printing money.

      Theoretically tax free threshold is UBI. You just need to work for it. Unfortunately giving away free money is a lot easier because working and paying no tax is too complicated of an idea.

      I wouldn't call anyone proposing anything a socialist but if you are a do gooder you better come up with a plan and a solution. Don't ask for UBI without knowing where it comes from.

      • [Deactivated] on 12/09/2020 - 17:12
        +1

        You keep reducing a complicated issue down to cheap sound bytes.

        There isn’t a simple fix

        • netjock on 12/09/2020 - 18:45

          You keep reducing a complicated issue down to cheap sound bytes.

          Do you want an essay? It seems like people have a short attention span.

          There isn’t a simple fix

          I didn't ask for a simple fix.

          Tax free threshold is UBI if you can work up to that amount. Or is it politically incorrect now to ask people to have to work for an income and UBI will solve it all?

          UBI is like first home owners grant if everyone gets it then is it really an extra money or is it just the new starting point for 0?

          If you promise everyone enough hours to make tax free threshold aka JobSeeker (Australia generates mountains of trash people can sort through because it isn't economical to recycle at minimum salary) then that would be complicated solution rather than just giving free money.

          • [Deactivated] on 12/09/2020 - 18:57

            @netjock: What an unnecessarily argumentative and obtuse post, with straw man arguments thrown in for good measure.

            Extremely immature, life’s too short. I’ll leave you to it.

            • netjock on 12/09/2020 - 20:40

              @[Deactivated]: Maybe you shouldn't have replied if you weren't up for a long essay for a solution.

            • brendanm on 12/09/2020 - 20:55
              -2

              @[Deactivated]: You really don't understand how just giving every single person X amount of dollars is a problem?

              As above, it simply sets a new $0 point, to $0+X. You will have massive inflation overnight. If you could just give people money with no repercussions, we should all just get $10mil a year each, and everyone can live in waterfront mansions and drive a Porsche to the shop to get the milk.

              • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2020 - 08:53

                @brendanm: I really should return my Masters in Economics and bow to your superior knowledge on the subject I suppose

                • brendanm on 13/09/2020 - 10:14
                  -1

                  @[Deactivated]:

                  Haha I can claim I have any qualification the internet and no one can stop me!

                  Yes, I'm a qualified dolphin trainer. If you don't understand that handing out "free" money increases the price of things, you haven't done primary school economics, let alone a master's.

                  • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2020 - 10:23

                    @brendanm: Yes you could make such a claim but you wouldn't be telling the truth.

                    Whether or not you believe me is inconsequential. As is the fact that you are ignoring reams of data to validate pragmatic economic and governmental best practices and learnings in order to continue your foundationless, and objectively incorrect, lecturing.

                    • brendanm on 13/09/2020 - 10:28
                      -1

                      @[Deactivated]: As I said, if this is the case, why don't we just give everyone $10mil each?

                      Also, where is the money coming from for this UBI endeavour?

                      What will we do when lots of minimum wage workers stop working, as they no longer have to bother? It's almost like the wages for these jobs would have to increase, thus increasing the cost of everything?

                      • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2020 - 10:40
                        +1

                        @brendanm: "why don't we just give everyone $10mil each?"

                        Because that is idiotic. Logistically impossible, completely devalues the currency, does not address the balance between meeting financial needs and providing an incentive to work and would not act as a stimulus for the economy.

                        You really shouldn't be lecturing people on a topic that you know absolutely nothing about. I don't have a quick solution, there is none, but your rantings are completely bonkers.

                        I suspect that you know this and will continue to try and dig yourself out of this hole that you made for yourself in order to attempt to impose yourself here which seems quite a priority for you. You're clearly not for turning, I'm not going to try and win you over.

                        • brendanm on 13/09/2020 - 10:48
                          -2

                          @[Deactivated]: The point is that it is completely ridiculous. Making money from nowhere will always devalue the currency. Giving everyone X amount of UBI (you can't even give a guestimate got what you think would be appropriate), will devalue the currency.

                          I notice that even with your masters degree, you can't answer me about what happens when people stop working minimum wage jobs, getting UBI instead. You just hand out your negs and deflect.

                          I'll ask again, what happens to the price of goods, when minimum wage isn't high enough to get people to work?

                          I'll ask again, we currently have half a trillion dollars of debt, and increasing, how do you think handing out a tonne of "free" money will affect this?

                          It's always the same tune, "X thing will make everything better", however it's then followed with "but I don't know how X thing could actually work".

                          I propose we have cars, buses and trains that run on a non-polluting, freely available fuel. I don't know what it is, but it would solve all out problems.

                          • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2020 - 10:53
                            +1

                            @brendanm: Edit:

                            I’ll engage with you if you rationally respond to what I say rather than posing straw-man arguments and at least make an effort to understand the terms you are discussing

                            • brendanm on 13/09/2020 - 11:00
                              -3

                              @[Deactivated]: Ok, so you have no answers then, just like all the other people that propose UBI yet have no idea how it would actually work. I posed questions, not arguments. You must be nearly out of negs for the day :(

                            • Reddich24 on 14/09/2020 - 09:49
                              +1

                              @[Deactivated]: Save yourself the pain and don't respond to people that aren't willing to have an open mind when it comes to discussion. brendanm seems to believe that the lefty commie boogeyman is the source of all his troubles in life, there's no changing such a toxic mentality.

                              • brendanm on 14/09/2020 - 22:05

                                @Reddich24: I don't actually have many real troubles in life. It simply amuses me that people say something will be fantastic, yet don't know how to actually implement the thing they think is great.

                                A UBI would actually be great for me, I'd collect that, quit work and do work for myself making way more tax free. I just can't see how it's sustainable, and no one is able to tell me.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/09/2020 - 17:14

      The budget can and will continue to run at a deficit until such a time they the economy turns around, which it will.

      There are a lot of alarmists here. There is precedent for economic downturns and recoveries. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater has never been the solution.

      • brendanm on 12/09/2020 - 20:53

        Yes, I suppose we only have half a trillion dollars in debt, may as well just keep racking it up! Free money for all, thanks Bernie!

        Damn I feel bad for future generations having to pay back all the absolute horseshit debt we end up in.

        • netjock on 13/09/2020 - 15:13

          Nah, they just do a reverse universal basic income. Just take zeros off those million dollar bank notes.

  • No ONE on 12/09/2020 - 12:32
    -1

    What kind of freaking poll is this:
    The questions asked is:

    Do we need to increase the pay of these 'unwanted' jobs? We might face significant price rises of fruit and vegetables if they are left to rot due to a shortage of pickers.

    Poll Options:

    • Fruit picking or abattoir work & contribute to Australia GDP
    • Collect job seeker or job keeper and chill at home

    WTF!

    The poll option to question asked should be
    * Yes - increase pay
    * No - do not increase pay - don't want to pay for overpriced fruit/vege

    • netjock on 12/09/2020 - 16:50
      +2

      Polls use language to get the answer the pollsters want.

  • joelmuzz on 12/09/2020 - 12:43
    +7

    The whole industry is a scam built on recuperating wages by charging pickers high board.

    Backpackers do it because they have to meet the visa work requirements. It is basically a government sponsored scam of work as temporary slaves on a plantation in exchange for holiday visa.

    • netjock on 12/09/2020 - 16:50

      Not much different to sweat shop T shirts Australians buy from retailers.

      Just that Australian consumers seems more comfortable with slave labour T shirts than slave labour Strawberries.

    • Pacify on 12/09/2020 - 23:14

      There's certainly a lot of that going around.

      There are farms that pay reasonable rates (well, reasonable in comparison). But there's also a WHOLE bunch of really dodgy farms and even dodgier contractors that totally take advantage of backpackers need to get a signature.

      And before COVID, getting a picking job as a backpacker wasn't easy. Not even slightly. I remember one year working on a apple farm, the farmer had almost 200 people come by the property asking for work. And his entire team was about 10 people.

  • cuckchump on 12/09/2020 - 13:27

    getting paid per batch or how many u can pick, makes alot of sense…weeds out the lazy workers who thinks they can work slow and drag out the hours cause they are getting paid per hour… if u get paid per quantity u will pushed urself harder to meet that number to get the bigger bucks…

    doing repetitive stuff, u need to set challenges for yourself, or else u get bored and quit cause the bonuses isnt work your effort/time

    • netjock on 12/09/2020 - 16:48

      There seems to be a lot of here who wants:

      Minimum wage ($40k pa)
      Guaranteed job security (full time)
      No need to do travel / relocation and be close to family and friends.

      The alternative:

      JobSeeker at $14k a year and if you can make $300 per fortnight which is extra $7k.

      What we know:

      Experienced fruit pickers can do $2k per week. Therefore 20 weeks of work to make $40k.

      Options to make up the difference:

      As your family and friends to make up the difference between JobSeekers and minimum wage for the pleasure of having your company.

    • iamnewtothis on 12/09/2020 - 18:32

      I think the issue is more around the piece rates paid whereby it's nearly impossible to actually earn even minimum wages when working flat out.

      As previously mentioned, there are farmers who pay adequate rates where people make a buck but their spots fill up immediately and you have to know someone to get a go, then there are others who pay peanuts.

      Maybe the horticulture award enforced by the government should explicitly state what the minimum piece rate should be - and of course vary it by fruit etc…

      this would still provide the incentive to work harder, but not allow some operators to set unrealistic targets so that no one makes minimum wage.

  • tikei on 12/09/2020 - 13:39
    +1

    Collect job seeker/keeper and pick fruit for cash in hand.

  • DemocracyManifest on 12/09/2020 - 15:14
    +1

    I've had friends who've gone to try to get these jobs but have been turned down because the farmers don't think they could do the work. You aren't going to uproot yourself and your family for a job that may not even pay award wages. I don't eat fruit because I'm sensitive to fructose and I don't eat dairy for the same reason, price increases won't affect me much at all. I've worked in meat processing and its bad money. It's the same rhetoric as 'just go off to the mines and you'll bank 200k'

  • melgirl on 12/09/2020 - 18:49
    +5

    I did strawberry picking in South Australia few years ago, I worked everyday around 7 hours a day and I only was able to earn $150/week!!! I worked for nothing….never again

    • leiiv on 13/09/2020 - 00:30

      Was that earning after the accomodation and meal costs?

      • melgirl on 13/09/2020 - 10:01

        no was bloody shit

  • Tuftsdude on 12/09/2020 - 18:49

    Most people wouldn't survive at an abattoir.

    • Pacify on 12/09/2020 - 23:11
      +4

      I've done a bunch of really shit work.

      But i'd never work in an abattoir or battery farm. I'd rather starve.

      • Tuftsdude on 13/09/2020 - 01:37

        Haha I don't blame you. I only had to do site work there occasionally, welding inside the boilers. The whole time I'd have to stop myself from vomiting. Every time you turn, a new smell hits you. On top of that, once you're done, the smell of the abattoir is on your clothes and in your hair, good luck getting that out. You'd wash your hair 4 times with shampoo and it's still there.

        • DiscoJango on 13/09/2020 - 10:47
          +1

          I honestly think if you made a 1 hour abattoir visit mandatory for people, a majority would never eat meat again.

  • mdavant on 13/09/2020 - 05:54

    It is ok.

    Don't do the work.

    The rest of us have got your back.

    Keep on gaming.

    • s1Lence on 13/09/2020 - 10:44

      Cheers, mate.

      • mdavant on 13/09/2020 - 13:47

        You're welcome.

  • Baghern on 13/09/2020 - 12:07

    A lot of people seem to have forgotten that when Covid hit, there were a lot of enquirers/application for farm work, majority were rejected.

    Fact was its just not feasible for most people.

  • Dack Smith on 13/09/2020 - 12:40
    -1

    The way fruit picking industry works, it’s just not fair and you can never earn a living wage, which is the median Australian wage of $71500 yearly full time.

    The only way forward is to give everyone a universal income of $71500 every year.

    Equality in money, why should the rich control the majority of Australian money?

    I shouldn’t have to break my back and work for a fair go, I should be allowed to choose what I want and not be forced by need. It’s not feasible.

    Fruit picking no bloody way, that industry should be taxed at a minimum of 75% in every dollar for what they do to the poor pickers!

    • mdavant on 13/09/2020 - 13:48
      +1

      You have the same opportunity to earn as much as anyone in this country.

      If you can be a real estate agent and earn 7 figures, good for you.

      If you need to pick fruit to put food on the table then roll up your sleeves.

      • netjock on 13/09/2020 - 15:24
        +1

        Lots of people would just rather roll up JobSeeker.

        I'd like to introduce "Adopt a JobSeeker scheme" for those who work and think JobSeeker isn't enough. They can do a voluntary top up as many JobSeekers as they want with their own money. Pre tax of course.

        Watch them run when it isn't forced upon all tax payers equitably.

      • outlander on 17/09/2020 - 17:15

        You have the same opportunity to earn as much as anyone in this country.

        That's a joke, right?
        You have an opportunity to earn the same. Not the same opportunity. Not even close in many cases

        • mdavant on 17/09/2020 - 21:53

          Don't be facetious. You know very well that our country is a country of opportunity but full of bludgers and whingers

    • netjock on 13/09/2020 - 15:21
      +1

      The only way forward is to give everyone a universal income of $71500 every year.

      You know that is before tax right? Take home is like $52k. Just stay home and get my $71.5k UBI rather than work.

      Please explain how the median salary is paying $19.5k in tax and everyone is getting $71.5k? Where is the money going to come from?

      If everyone gets the median of $71.5k doesn't it just move the median up again and everyone below the median is disadvantaged?

    • Ughhh on 19/09/2020 - 11:16

      The only way forward is to give everyone a universal income of $71500 every year

      I would quit my job and go holidaying all the time if this came true. Why work for a fair go when you and tax payers can pay for it.

  • Flowerbomb on 13/09/2020 - 16:40

    I’m a white collar city slicker in Sydney thinking of doing this during the 2 week Christmas shutdown. Part of me thinks I would pass out after the first day. Decisions.

    • joelmuzz on 18/09/2020 - 18:54
      +3

      You will find that you can't get any jobs unless you pay the farmer back almost everything you earn to live in his shed or even park a van on his land. And there will be no job for you if you have outside accommodation.

  • Moneyinthebank on 13/09/2020 - 18:17
    +1

    This is bananas

    • BuyoTheCat on 13/09/2020 - 19:38
      +2

      You are comparing apples and oranges

  • vetopower on 15/09/2020 - 08:36
    +4

    Yet more reports in the news today that the fruit picking scheme is a massive employer scam that exploits young people and leads to sexual harassment in some cases:

    After two months of working on a farm, Elin had just $70 to show for her time.

    Each year, tens of thousands of young backpackers like her are channelled onto Australian farms, where many become cheap labour and some are sexually harassed.

    It is happening under a Federal Government scheme, and under its watch.

    For years, the Government has assured the public it is taking action against the systematic exploitation of young travellers.

    But the disturbing stories from backpackers — and data obtained under Freedom of Information laws — show otherwise.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-15/backpacker-farm-worke…

    • leiiv on 15/09/2020 - 09:07

      It smells collusion and corruption involving all parties, of course, victims excluded.

    • nightqueen on 15/09/2020 - 12:15
      +1

      young female backpackers being sexually harassed - terrible

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 15/09/2020 - 15:20

      Yep. Happens all the time.

      Farms wield power. Do as I say or you're sacked mid season, won't accrue the 3 months required to get your 2nd year working holiday Visa, then forced to go home.

      • GG57 on 15/09/2020 - 15:43

        Farms? Farmers?
        Or do you mean the contractors that employ the backpackers?

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 15/09/2020 - 16:44

          The Farms are ultimately the top of the chain. I say "Farms" as most are usually owned by Pty Ltds and not "farmers" these days. Whether they sub contract out doesn't matter. They allow, permit and/or encourage the current "way of doing things".

  • netjock on 17/09/2020 - 16:35

    $300 a day picking blueberries, $400 if you are good. Obviously not going to be like that if you are standing around chatting to your friends, family and on insta.

    here it is

  • thesaver on 18/09/2020 - 11:23
    -1

    If your unemployed for 3 years or more and have made no attempt to find employment or improve your prospects via education then you should be executed. The rest of us should not have to pay for your lazy arse.

    • nightqueen on 18/09/2020 - 18:46
      +1

      Like jail time and then execution/death penalty?

    • mdavant on 19/09/2020 - 05:42
      +1

      get a job as an executioner you lard ass

    • RecklessMonkeys on 19/09/2020 - 10:55
      +1

      Are you sure you wouldn't rather torture them first?

      • thesaver on 19/09/2020 - 10:57

        I like the way you think

  • WillowTT on 01/10/2020 - 20:39

    it honestly depends where you pick. I've done it myself for fun few years back - made 20 dollars over 4 hours, ate a whole bunch of cherries as well, then drove 300km back home - as it wasn't worth the money.

    People there were making max 10 dollars/hour - and some were happy.

    Picking does take skill, but honestly on that farm you couldn't make much over 100 dollars a day, working 10 hours a day - from the 10 different people I talked to.

    I've heard from international friends that they managed to make $20/hour at different farms outside of Victoria.

    It really depends on where you pick. Just be careful, there are farmers who will exploit desperate people out there like people on Working Holiday Visas.

    Do your research before you set yourself up to go to the middle of nowhere and pick fruit.

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