[Solved] Parking Fine for Parking within 10m of an Intersection

Greetings fellow OzBargainers,

Happened in Sydney,NSW.

I wish y'all have a great week ahead of you. Mine did not start pretty well, woke up to drive my van and there were two parking notices on top of it.

The reason is "Rule 170 (3) Stop within 10 m of intersection (no traffic lights):$349 and 2 demerit points".

Because I didn't check my van for a few days, that sums up to 4 demerit points and $700 which is awful for me. My business is not going well due to the covid situation either. Now I woke up today with hefty fines.

I didn't know such a rule existed, and there was no parking restriction on the road.

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this question, but please somebody tell me if there is a way out from this situation.

Should I dispute and take it to the court or just suck it up and pay the fines?

Another note is that I moved to where I am approximately 2 months ago, and people have been parking that spot since then, does this help me get away with a discount or withdrawal of the fine?

Any suggestion is appreciated….


OP Edit: Decided to appeal on the second fine due to continuous offence.

Comments

  • Nope, ignorance isn't justified when it comes to this offence, unfortunately.

  • +53 votes

    I didn't know such a rule existed, and there was no parking restriction on the road.
    Should I dispute and take it to the court or just suck it up and pay the fines?

    You have nothing to fall back on in Court because it is Law it'd be a waste of time and heaps of money for something that is pretty clear cut. Not knowing about this rule ain't gonna cut it. So pay it and hard lesson learnt unfortunately.

    You can prob write a letter to the council of that area explaining your current financial situation while being polite and see if they would withdraw it. No harm in trying given the current climate.

    • +14 votes

      Upvote for DannyC's advice. Don't take it to court, because ignorance of the law is no excuse. Do write to the people issuing the fine and ask for a break. In the current climate this can't do any harm!

    • This advice is your best shot.
      Honestly don't waste your time fighting them, they are a law unto themselves. I got issued a parking fine with the wrong offence on it, but you're talking to a brick wall while the fees and repercussions go up. In the end, I spent all my time successfully arguing it back down to the original fine fee!!!!

    • Isn't there an argument that the second fine is invalid because he wasn't given an opportunity to change his behavior? I recall this being used before to get out of multiple speed camera offences

      • Possibly. As I said there isn't any harm in writing an email or a written letter to the council of the area. It may or may not help in getting the fines reduced or withdrawn fully. From the demerit points and the fine amounts, it might have been issued by a Police officer.

        • I thought that rule was in place If you haven't received the fine. I.e. getting a speeding fine twice in the same location before receiving the initial infringement notice in the mail.

          I would be interested to know if this applies here, given notice was given (on the vehicle in the form of initial ticket). I would think that the onus of not being notified wouldn't apply because thats all the noticed that is usually given

  • Going to have to suck it up. It's an easy one to forget, but at least in Queensland, it's a question on the Learner Exam.

  • I didn't know such a rule existed, and there was no parking restriction on the road.

    Kinda doesn't matter, imagine a world where everybody who plead ignorance was let off the hook?

    Should I dispute and take it to the court or just suck it up and pay the fines?

    If there's demerits involved, sounds like the fine was issued by the police as opposed to the council so I think you'd be pushing it uphill, especially if your whole argument revolves around you not knowing the law existed.

    Could be worse, the area I live in your car would just get towed, no questions asked.

    • In NSW the council rangers issue this fine and you get a letter a few weeks later confirming the demerits. Been there, done that.

  • +12 votes

    Rest assured, this is the perfect place to ask such questions.
    I'd suggest you just accept the fines and close this post.

  • There is no way to get out of it as others have said

    You could apply to pay in instalments though if paying it all at once would be a hardship
    https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/apply-time-pay-en...

  • You won't be able to get out of those fines.

    At the end of the day, you'll just waste time, effort, and money trying to fight it and the magistrate will ultimately ask you for why the law should not apply to this circumstance … you'll answer with a variation of "I didn't know about this road rule" … to which the magistrate will reply with a variation of "well, you may claim not to be aware of any number of laws, but that does not absolve you from the obligation to follow them".

    You'll then be stiffed with the fines and the demerit points, plus court costs and solicitors' fees.

  • +33 votes

    I think you will nothing to lose by writing a grovelling letter, say you know you were wrong and you are now wiser and won't do it again, and request that one of the fines be waived as they were in effect for the same offence as you hadn't had an opportunity to move your car. They may waive one of them.

    • thanks for giving me a little bit of hope.

      This was all I needed :)

      • Don't forget to mention your good track record/driving history (assuming so) for the leniency

      • If that doesn't work, maybe doing the same in court would reduce the fines down to 1 offence, not 2. Maybe a Section 10 dismissal could apply. If I remember correctly, you have a certain period which you can elect to go to court to dispute the fine and it costs $80? Just my 2c

    • Yeah I think there is a good chance to get at least one waved.

  • I didn't know such a rule existed, and there was no parking restriction on the road.

    ignorance is not a excuse

    Should I dispute and take it to the court or just suck it up and pay the fines?

    As above, ignorance is not a excuse. So what is your reason that you LEGALLY should have been able to park there? If you don't have one, then yes pay the fine.

    and people have been parking that spot since then, does this help me get away with a discount or withdrawal of the fine?

    Nope, just because someone else does it, doesn't mean you can or its legal. Maybe they have been getting fined as well hence why they are no longer parking there and it was free ;)

    please somebody tell me if there is a way out from this situation.

    Open wallet, pay fines is the only way out.

    You could try writing a letter explaining you hadn't checked the van for a few days and if they could merge the two fines into one fine.

    But again, you still are looking at paying a fine…..ignorance is not a excuse for getting out of a parking fine.

  • thank you all for your suggestions,

    just putting this link here if there are ignorant ppl like me out there. :)

    https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/deme...

  • Pay fine and move on. Nothing to see here. Pick up a learners guide book. Think you may need a refresher.

  • Go online and look at the photos. You may be able to have the fines heard in court.

    https://www.revenue.nsw.gov.au/fines-and-fees

    I found this but haven’t read it yet.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-21/nsw-government-to-hal...

  • Write and ask for lenience for one fine mentioning a valid, true reason why you didn’t move your vehicle until the second fine was applied.

    Possibly get one waived, but unlikely.

  • OP, don't put your hand out of the window for a wave, mmkay? Just in case if you didn't know this rule too.

  • It's a continuous offence. The second will get cancelled on appeal. Submit an online review. Assuming this is NSW.

  • +25 votes

    I absolutely loathe people who park on the side of the road, literally right on an intersection. Nothing better than having to go around your idiotic parked car right on an intersection.

    • I find it also blocks the drivers view of incoming traffic.. forcing you to nudge out further and further just to see if the way is clear to turn out of the intersection. Not the safest thing to do

      • Yeah that's exactly my concerns. Every time you have to go around the car, you often can't see what's coming around the corner, likewise, cars coming around the corner aren't expecting an oncoming vehicle to be in their lane.

        It's beyond common sense, i can't believe people still park on intersections.

  • Haha sorry mate, been there done that. It's a shit fine to get.

    I got one as a uni student for parking here near the inside corner here: https://i.imgur.com/qod5GFU.png

    Giant kerb and gutter to get into the other 'road' in the 'intersection', 100% looks like a private driveway from street level (it's a university property).

    Big $ and demerit points for something like that, don't you think? Hope you find the $$$ to pay it mate, was a struggle for me too.

  • y'all

  • Take it to court and plead guilty and ask if you pay the five once not twice for the same thing at the same place as if you were caught speeding it would be once not for every metre that the police saw you speed.

  • Well I always thought it was illegal to park within 30m of an intersection (in WA anyway)

  • That sucks OP. yes other people are right that it's a rule, it's in the book, etc. But it's a pretty easy one to forget when you can find 100 card breaking this rule within 1km of where I live in Sydney. And they don't all have $350 love letters on them.

    Apply for leniency. If they knock you back, plead again. If they knock you a third time, ask for payment plan .

  • Stop driving until you learn the road rules

  • 1: I hate y'all… where are you?

    2: It is illegal for a reason… your flaunting of rules places all of us in danger.

    Then you have the hide to cry clemency.

  • Generally a safety issue - reduces vision for motorists and pedestrians. Especially if it’s a van

  • You need to be more careful where you park with a van. People have a chip on their shoulder about van parking.

    The fact other people park cars there just fine, suggests someone dobbed you in.

    Definitely dispute the second fine, because it isnt a separate offence, it was one offence.

    And be more careful about where you park your van. You need to be 100% legal because people will be looking for an excuse to dob.

  • I didn't know such a rule existed

    Which begs the question: How did you even get a driving license?!

    Any suggestion is appreciated

    I've a couple of suggestions:

    • Don't forget to pay the fine, although if you request politely, the 2x fine may get reduced to 1x as it's the same offence.
    • Read this: NSW - Road Users' Handbook
  • Measure the distance from the curb to the front of the car. Was it actually less than 10 metres just by a few CMS? Is there a sign around there that allows you to park closer than 10 metres? Check! Ask for a review if you have mental health issues, broke down, or have a great driving record for past 10 years to get it waived. I would argue it as it was the one continuous offence and as soon as you returned, you immediately moved the van. Plenty of defences to this. I'd try to get it wiped first, then 50 percent reduction or WDO. Look into all of this as I see these as viable options. It's just knowing the law.

  • People parking there before might be an argument if there are lines marked on the ground? Definitely challenge it, don't be afraid to. Any community lawyer is free for consultation. Try Kingsford Legal Centre at UNSW. , but my advice is correct. I broke down once and left a sign - still got a ticket. So, I just presented the receipt for the new battery. I was in a timed zone, too, over a few days of changing time zones. Whole lot wiped. If you can't get a grasp on the law surrounding this and defences, then just head to a community legal centre for free. Take a few pics of the spot. But definitely explore what I've written in my two posts as you have a defence to this.

  • A lot of it stems on that 10 metre aspect. I'm guessing they took photos, however if it was on the borderline of 10 metres, I'd be cross examining the person on what they used to measure the distance with, etc. If you can show a reasonable doubt that you were not less than 10 metres away from intersection, then the whole lot is wiped. They often don't know the defences as well as a lawyer. They just issue the tickets, without sometimes considering the arguments. These are the things to think of. You can beat this down if you dare!

  • if you did not know the road rules,how did you pass the driving test for your licence,

  • Legitimate question.

    Isn't that two identical fines for the same offence?

    I get that it was over two (or more) days. Is that where an arbitrary line is drawn? 24 hours separating them defines two separate offences?

    What does the law have to say on this I wonder.

    • Some people park illegally in the same spot and leave a previous fine on their car so they don’t get booked again. Second fine issuer had no way of knowing that the car hadn’t been moved and parked again in the same spot.

  • You can't dispute the fine because you didn't know. Sounds pretty clear cut man, I'd pay the fine and use this as a learning experience.

  • Ignore the fines and move on?
    You'll be fine, don't worry

  • Now I woke up today with hefty fines

    Then fk up the system by claiming jobkeeper. Even.

    • You can't claim jobkeeper because he's a sole trader….

      • Jobkeeper is available to sole traders.

        Long version in the link.
        https://www.ato.gov.au/General/JobKeeper-Payment/Sole-trader...

        If you are a sole trader – that is, you own your business and are not an employee of your business – only you can be the eligible business participant.
        You will qualify as an eligible business participant provided you satisfy all the following conditions:

        • Oh…my mistake then, I guess I need to update my information…last I read, it was only small companies that aren't sole traders or partnerships get it….and that you needed to have worked since the start of this year to have been applicable for it.

  • Sorry to hear but I've had the same fine from Randwick council.
    Parked in the side streets of UNSW where street space is limited.
    There's a spot before a single lane side street that fits a car with 5m to spare, which it decent amount of space!

    Got a fine, complained to council, they replied back with photocopy of the road rules and upheld the fine.
    So many people have been fined in that very same spot, it was an obvious revenue source for the council. YEARS!!! later they put up a No Parking sign on that spot.

  • Unless you're a cop, ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

    • So the cops can park in No Parking Zone for their Thai takeaway? Or make an illegal U-turn just to make a shortcut back to the police station?
      You see a lot of them in Sydney CBD.

  • Were you parked on the side of the road that was approaching the intersection or leaving the intersection?

  • I would ask for lenience on the second fine, explain you didn't attend to the car.

    The fine taught you not to do it again, the second one is redundant.

  • Feel your pain OP, I got stung for parking beside a dividing line as well in a residential street (VIC).

    It was just a normal street with houses and a slight bend (maybe 30 degrees) but they put a solid dividing line through the bend. No signage otherwise that said you couldn't park. Didn't know that rule existed but… now I do.

    https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/road-r...

    • Did you not think that, when you parked, hmmmm there isn't much room between my car and that line (even if it is just to indicate the middle of the road)?

  • I suggest you follow the road rules and don’t whine about it when you get caught breaking them.

  • My only suggestion is to pay the fines as soon as possible, as they linger in your record after the payment (payment is acceptance and closing the fine) and can cost you more down the track (insurance, discount on licence fee and terms of licence [5yrs instead of 10yrs]).

  • Just to make you feel a bit happy I got booked twice in a week for disobeying stop signs no demerit recorded. It just one of those days that you wish you buy a lotto ticket.

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