[Solved] Parking Fine for Parking within 10m of an Intersection

LSammysydney on 14/09/2020 - 13:53
Last edited 16/09/2020 - 17:54 by 1 other user

Greetings fellow OzBargainers,

Happened in Sydney,NSW.

I wish y'all have a great week ahead of you. Mine did not start pretty well, woke up to drive my van and there were two parking notices on top of it.

The reason is "Rule 170 (3) Stop within 10 m of intersection (no traffic lights):$349 and 2 demerit points".

Because I didn't check my van for a few days, that sums up to 4 demerit points and $700 which is awful for me. My business is not going well due to the covid situation either. Now I woke up today with hefty fines.

I didn't know such a rule existed, and there was no parking restriction on the road.

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this question, but please somebody tell me if there is a way out from this situation.

Should I dispute and take it to the court or just suck it up and pay the fines?

Another note is that I moved to where I am approximately 2 months ago, and people have been parking that spot since then, does this help me get away with a discount or withdrawal of the fine?

Any suggestion is appreciated….

OP Edit: Decided to appeal on the second fine due to continuous offence.

Automotive

Comments

  • GG57 on 15/09/2020 - 15:27
    +7

    Quite a few comments here like "…it wasn't on the driving license test…" or "…there wasn't a sign there…" etc.

    How much common sense does it take?

    And, as intending to leave the car/van parked there for a couple of days, wouldn't you be looking for the safest parking spot rather than one where other vehicles may be inconvenienced (e.g. traffic in both directions) and potentially scrape yours.

    • Frayin on 15/09/2020 - 17:03

      Well said.

      • T1OOO on 15/09/2020 - 17:41

        Dumb and dumber.

  • mroarsome on 15/09/2020 - 15:27
    +4

    I am struggling to understand this rule. Is it every street? Or does this only count in CBD areas or residential streets? Because here in the inner Brisbane suburbs there are cars parked well within 10m of almost every intersection on residential streets and I have never seen or heard of someone getting fined. 10m is about 3 car lengths from an intersection - most parking spots would be at best 1 car length or 3m from an intersection. I guess ticket inspectors just never venture out of the CBD here.

  • TheMindsetTraveller on 15/09/2020 - 16:26
    +1

    I remember about 15 years ago I was fined for the exact thing. Back then it changed from 6 metres to 10 metres at a non-traffic light intersection.

    I was outraged and rang up 15 different police stations to see what law enforcement officers knew. The crazy thing is they all gave me different answers! I had names, station and answers all written down.

    I contacted a talk back radio to complain, ended up speaking with Steve Price about this.

    It was only a quick interview but one that he wanted to warn his listeners.

    • GG57 on 15/09/2020 - 16:37

      Was it the police that issued your fine? I wouldn't think it was something they would regularly get involved in.

      • TheMindsetTraveller on 15/09/2020 - 20:24

        I agree they generally don't get involved in minor parking issues - unlesss it is a clearway during peak hour (my office overlooks a clearway and I see motorcycle police issue fines to cars parked there all the time)

        The fine was council issued; I thought I'd see if the police knew what the parking laws where - guess it is a bit more authority than ringing up 15 random friends and seeing what they thought.

        A few officers did question why I was calling but I was surprised they all gave me a different answer (to be fair, one did get it right). I wish I had kept that 'research' list.

        • GG57 on 16/09/2020 - 09:40

          It is largely irrelevant if 15 random police officers didn't give you the correct response, about 15 years ago.
          I assume that you paid the fine / accepted the penalty, because it was issued in accordance with the regulations at that time.

          • TheMindsetTraveller on 16/09/2020 - 10:45

            @GG57: I paid the fine; seeking a review would say the fine was issued correctly, and ignorance of the law is not an excuse anyway.

            I more wanted to validate that 1. not many people at that time did not know the parking rules and 2. 15 officers were not aware of the new changes either.

            That proved my point, and hence I was invited to talkback radio at that time.

            • Jono05 on 16/09/2020 - 11:57

              @TheMindsetTraveller: Police officers don’t usually issue parking fines (unless you’re blocking a clearway). Council rangers and parking patrol officers are the ones that usually issue those fines.

              • TheMindsetTraveller on 16/09/2020 - 12:32

                @Jono05: I understand that; or things like clearways as I see from my office.,

                Police officers do have valid drivers licence, so what's a good source to find out IF they also knew of this parking changes.

  • Antikythera on 15/09/2020 - 16:59

    just to be sure take a photo of the spot. make sure you clearly show the solid white line down the middle of the road and how far past your vehicle it stops.

  • T1OOO on 15/09/2020 - 17:39

    I didn’t know the law existed.

    Lol

    And u want to contest it ?

    Judge will explain to u. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

    U really need us to tell u this ?

    Stop making things worse by wasting the courts time.

  • Seni0r El Cheapo on 15/09/2020 - 18:17
    +7

    So you are the guy who parks big freaking van near intersections and makes my life miserable judging if any vehicle is coming in or not.

    Am glad you got the ticket.

    Pay the fine. Learn your lesson. And be careful in the future. Even if you don't know the law, tell me does it make sense to park like that? Please be considerate while driving and parking your vehicle.

    I know I sound burnt, but I sincerely wish my local council moron cns be more proactive as my area is infested with people 'who don't know the law'.

    • iampoor on 15/09/2020 - 19:20
      +1

      I used to think like that but sometimes brain fades happen.

      Not saying it is right but people make mistakes, I know I make various mistakes on a daily basis.

      If they want to get rid of the "revenue raising" argument, a sign post by the road would get rid of all doubt.

      No parking sign. Park there, get fined. Simple.

      • Ughhh on 17/09/2020 - 17:24

        a sign post by the road would get rid of all doubt.

        At every intersection???
        Are we all idiots incapable of common sense? Do we need a nanny 24/7?

  • Repi on 15/09/2020 - 18:49

    Wow, I am absolutely impressed how many law abiding people on Oz Bargain know all the Road rules. Must be a hobby of some to read up on new rules and legislations, is there a club I could join?

    • Yummy on 15/09/2020 - 19:14

      My metal detector sense a hint of sarcasm.

      • ozyack on 16/09/2020 - 10:47

        Your "metal" detector is malfunctioning.

    • iampoor on 15/09/2020 - 19:16
      +2

      You know the rules so you don't pay fines and have more money to waste on bargains you didn't know you needed!

    • Frayin on 15/09/2020 - 20:01
      +4

      Since when has knowing a single law (which should be common sense) equate to knowing all the road rules?

      I definitely don't abide by all the laws, some through ignorance, others through sheer selfishness. I've certainly rolled through my share of stop signs.

      Parking on an intersection causing countless commuters into the risk of an accident is just idiotic though.

  • [Deactivated] on 15/09/2020 - 18:56

    MS Paint?

  • kokita on 15/09/2020 - 21:16

    How about this one guys? There was a sign that you can park on the weekend. https://ibb.co/wr77R80

    But I still got fined where the white car was (near Blackfriars St sign) because it is less than 10m.

    The funny part, the council updated the parking sign after I got fined.
    Before = https://ibb.co/Nsd4R0z
    After = https://ibb.co/mCBjwgN (the no stopping sign is less than 10m to intersection)

    • whooah1979 on 15/09/2020 - 22:47
      +2

      https://ibb.co/mCBjwgN
      https://i.ibb.co/3Yvv7Vr/1a.jpg

      Parking to the left of the sign is only permitted within works zone hours (Mon-Fri 10:00 to 15:00 and Sat 07:00 to 17:30). Normal parking road rules apply outside of those hours.

      Works zone
      http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104…

      181 Stopping in a works zone
      (1) A driver must not stop in a works zone unless the driver is driving a vehicle that is—
      (a) engaged in construction work in or near the zone, or
      (b) dropping off, or picking up, passengers.

      • kokita on 16/09/2020 - 13:13

        The question is how far can you park during outside Works Zone to the street intersection (Blackfriars St sign as reference)? Is it 10m from the street sign?

        I parked on Sunday btw.

        • robberbutton on 16/09/2020 - 14:10

          10m from the intersection. Same as the works vehicles during that period. The only time the 10m rule doesn't apply is if another sign exists to overrule it. In the new instance, the works zone (left) sign being closer than 10m is the limit.

  • Herbse on 15/09/2020 - 22:12
    +1

    You can ask for an appeal based on financial difficulties but they will most likely refer you to a payment system. Not knowing a law is not an excuse for breaking it.

    Parking too close to an intersection is dangerous for the drivers who have to drive around you to get to the end off the road and dangerous for pedestrians who have to walk out into the road and look around your because it's blocking the view of other drivers.

  • Hangryuman on 16/09/2020 - 08:27
    +2

    my first thought was 10m sounds like a long way - without specific location information

    a friend tried to fight a parking ticket near a school in front of a tiny strange little 1 metre 'ramp' or invert crossing with no apparent purpose in Western Sydney - it wasn't near any entrance to the house it was in front of - turned out this was a hot spot for local council parking ticket earnings as every day a parent would park there and get a ticket from the council ranger who 'just happened' to be passing by this spot midway between the local primary school and swimming pool sports centre.

    when advised that this was unfair, the council DGAF - they preferred the money honey.

    I suggested the unhappy mum accidently spill a can of red paint across the silly little never-used invert crossing as a warning to other parents

    as for this 10m rule - the pix at the bottom of this site are misleading - http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_reg/arr210/s17… - as the average car these days is under 5m long, yet the pic shows 10m as about half the car lengths - in other words it suggests you can park half a car length from the corner - if your car is 20 meters long ! Who here has a car 20 metres long ? Anybody ?

    So that's bullship !

    Not only that - but another example - http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/images/201… - so it looks to me someone should tell whoever put up these images that they can be sued for misrepresentation costing taxpayers tickets due to misleading them into believing they could park half a car length from a corner without traffic lights. Far canal.

    found the NSW pic here - https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/par… - under General Parking Rules about 30% through the page - the small green pic : https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/images/roads/safety-rules/roadrul… - they've adjusted the sizes a bit so a car looks a bit larger relatively.

    But here's the thing - the NSW gov website image is still quite misleading - I used a ruler to measure that pic when zoomed - and it's wrong either way -

    if it correctly indicates 10m distance, then it misleads with a car indicated as 13.7m long (the average car is under 5m long - anybody have a car that's 13.7m long ? I don't think so !

    Excluding limousines, the longest American-produced production sedan is the 1973 Imperial LeBaron, at 235.3 in (5,977 mm) long - under 6m - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_yacht_(automobile)

    The longest current sedan here - the Rolls Royce Phantom - is under 6m - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_consumer_road_…

    So the NSW gov website is DELIBERATELY misleading as to distance you are allowed to park from a corner.

    If the NSW gov website indicates the average car length of 5m, then that pic suggests you can park 3.6m from the corner - or less than one car length from the corner - that's what I often see where I live.

    10m is like 2 average car lengths - so an easy rule of thumb would be 'you must park at least 2 car lengths from the corner' - but do I recall seeing that anywhere ? naah - that would be too easy - and reduce the number of parking tickets they could write !

    I think it's time somebody contacted the RMS and said 'hey R Souls - your far kin website is misleading - and I'm gonna send you all my tickets to refund me - send the money to this address !'

    any lawyers looking for a class action ? this would be a good one … for an easy win.

    have to be quick tho - apparently the big corporations have asked their mates in gov to prevent class actions in future as it has cost them too many millions for their classhole behaviour - you know - damaging peoples lives and such … can't get in the way of profit now …

  • lint on 16/09/2020 - 10:00
    +2

    How long have you been driving? I thought this was a pretty obvious rule.

    You can try ask for leniency but otherwise learn from your mistake and move on.

  • capslock janitor on 16/09/2020 - 12:46

    Soved

    Any update OP what was outcome?

    • Yummy on 16/09/2020 - 14:44

      The outcome is shoved.

  • suti on 16/09/2020 - 12:55
    +2

    some parts of inner sydney have blocks less than 20m and would mean noone could park anywhere. Inner West Council could rake it in if they wanted to.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@-33.8957102,151.1764357,3a,75y,…

    Look down the whole street. everyone is parking within 1-2metres of the corner.

  • Dontdoit on 16/09/2020 - 15:22

    Has anyone in SA ever been fined for parking within 10m of an intersection?

    https://mylicence.sa.gov.au/road-rules/the-drivers-handbook/…

  • Lurkermclurkerson on 16/09/2020 - 15:31

    One thing for OP to look at is whether this should have only been issued as a single offence. I’m not sure of the NSW road rules but there might be grounds to claim that the second infringement notice was issued for the same act by OP and is not a new offence itself.

    I’d suggest that you request a review from the issuing authority and state something along the lines mentioned above. You have nothing to lose.

    Source: I worked in Parking and Traffic for a Victorian council.

    Edit: this was noted by another user too

  • MementoMori on 16/09/2020 - 20:34
    -1

    Worth checking out.

    No idea if it works or not - https://www.knowyourrightsgroup.com.au/

  • tik tok on 17/09/2020 - 08:03
    +1

    Dont leave us hanging here - let us know what the outcome of the appeal was.

  • c64 on 17/09/2020 - 10:41

    gee, i never knew such a rule even existed

  • RolandWaites on 17/09/2020 - 11:49
    -2

    Report the van as stolen. Cancels the fine and you cash in on the insurance. $$$ profit

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