Hopefully a working vaccine can be approved and mass produced before then.
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/…
Good luck to Bain Capital, the Queensland Gov. and Qantas.
Maybe time to add to shorts on FLT & QAN?
No International Travel till Late 2021
mrvaluepack on 07/10/2020 - 16:57
Last edited 07/10/2020 - 16:58
Last edited 07/10/2020 - 16:58
Comments
I always find this "get pissed off at china" or "blame china" laughable. They claim china should have stopped this spreading and it is all their fault. So are we saying china are far more advanced than the rest of the world and even though they had far less information than the rest of the world in the initial stages they should have been able to do what the rest of the world could not do?
Did you even read my post? I don't blame China for not being able to stop the virus, I blame their response to it by not letting any independent investigators find out it's origin. I mean I'm no scientist but I'd imagine it's probably important to find out the origins of this virus to reduce the likelihood of future pandemics from occurring.
"They literally crippled the economy of the whole world"
yeah sure you don't blame them.
@gromit: Well maybe I could have worded it better but my point is if you cripple the world economy, you should at least respond to it in a way where you reduce the likelihood of the same thing from occurring again in the future.
@baskinghobo: That is just it, they didn't cripple the world economy. the worlds incompetence at dealing with a pandemic did that, not china. The likelihood of finding the initial root cause is almost zero, the fact the disease has such a long incubation period and it could have been passed around for months and months till someone got sick enough and it was realised what it was. Add on the ridiculous calls for "independent" investigation and it was obvious it was never going to happen, I think none of the pollies expected it, it was just posturing. The only investigation you would ever get achieved would be a joint one.
@gromit: At some point you have to place the blame on China. The initial data they gave regarding covid was unhelpful which is why you had contradicting info regarding masks and possibly other things.
@baskinghobo: complete BS. We couldn't even contain the virus to a friggen hotel, Our main infections came from the US, Iran and Italy well after it was known how bad the virus potentially was, as was the case for most countries. China definitely acted poorly, but then so did the US and Australia. We didn't "blame" the UK for mad cow disease and claim they were responsible for billions of dollars of economic damage. You have fallen for the political rhetoric, basically politicians looking for someone to blame so their incompetence can be overlooked.
@gromit: Other countries may have acted incompetently and are looking for someone to blame but my issue with China is many things they did can't be attributed to the same reason. They knew exactly what they were doing by trying to hide important data on the covid outbreak whether it was to save face or whatever the reason may be. That in my opinion is a lot worse than bungling up a response you have no real protocol for.
@baskinghobo: 'Independent' is a big assumption there, and also tell me your theory about finding out the origin can reduce the likelihood of future pandemics?
If I tell you the Spanish flu was originated in Spain (this was still unproven), and then what? How is that helping reducing the likelihood of H1N1 Swine Flu pandemic(originated in Mexico), West African Ebola epidemic(South Sudan and Congo), Zika Virus epidemic(Uganda) and Covid19 pandemic?@tidie: So your telling me Scomo made things worse for us than it already is by confronting China for no other reason then public posturing and all the other world leaders joined him for the same reason? And of course it won't stop all pandemics but it could help us prevent similar ones. E.g. if it came from a bat the international community can put pressure to ban wildlife trade with bats, same thing with pangolin. Except we already know bats are infested with many diseases and we shouldn't be touching them at all. Or what if it actually came from a lab when they were testing bat viruses? The international community can put pressure to increase standards and contingencies on virus testings. Doing something is better than doing nothing.
@baskinghobo: Of course the International community can do something, but it doesn't have to be right now. There is plenty of time to get answers after we get out financial markets, economy, jobs, etc, going again. Removing the lockdown and opening the borders for free trade is the first step.
@baskinghobo: yes the moronic posturing made it worse as it made it less likely that china would cooperate. You 100% can tell it is posturing when instead of discussing it quietly with them on diplomatic channels they do it in the press, which screams the agenda is NOT information it is blame shifting.
@gromit: You know China would never agree to an independent investigation through diplomatic channels. The point was to put public pressure on China by doing it openly.
@baskinghobo: WTF is up with "independent investigation", there is absolutely no need for it to be independent, calling for independent is basically calling them liars to their face and expecting them to respond kindly. that is just political BS. a joint investigation is what should have been requested.
@gromit: Ok I see your point now. Maybe a joint investigation should have been requested instead. But they still deserve a lot of criticism for the things I've already mentioned and for not letting the WHO join their investigation at the very least. You don't cry wolf that people don't trust you when you have a long history of proving the opposite.
But they still deserve a lot of criticism for the things I've already mentioned and for not letting the WHO join their investigation at the very least
absolutely, and that is something they should be slammed for. That doesn't excuse Australia's and the US's atrocious approach to diplomacy though. If we had done the right thing and then been refused then the current ridiculous posturing might be justified, but we didn't, we jumped straight on the blame shifting and political posturing backing Trumps antics.
@baskinghobo: If this happened in the US I don't think Trump would allow independent Chinese (and I don't think they'd let many other countries including allies either) investigators in to check it out.
If it happened somewhere like Australia we wouldn't consider Chinese investigators as independent, although I think we would accept US investigation because we seem dependent on one sided relationships with them.
@dizzle: Maybe not but at least the other countries have free speech (compared to China) so you don't have to rely solely on data provided from the government.
@baskinghobo: Playing devils advocate, how is free speech and publicly available information going for the US at the moment?
You're either on Trumps side where all the media (and many scientific sources) are spreading lies or you're against Trump and all Republicans are spreading lies.
Even if China let in the WHO for an investigation, Trump has discredited them so much that half the country wouldn't trust their outcome. That sounds like government controlling the data at least partially successful.
@dizzle: But propaganda in China is much worse than in America and anyone who thinks otherwise has been spoon-fed this current prevailing thought that America is literally the worst country in the world compared to x country when other countries literally have actual dictators in charge and the protestors are holding American flags because they want freedom like they do (see Hong Kong).
At least in America you have two sides, even if both those sides are highly politicized your still free to have differing opinions. Not so much the case in China.
@gromit: Exactly. When you are pointing fingers and using the press as well as rally other countries to join you, why is anyone surprise that china would be on the defensive instead of cooperating?
@baskinghobo: In the chinese news from feb until now they have not been able to find patient zero and patient zero is the clue to the origins.
One possibility is that patient zero maybe have travelled in and left the country.
Genetic sequencing can be traced back to patient zero but there's no patient zero.
@sal78: That could be true but I don't trust a word that comes from China. They were already caught downplaying the severity of virus and the number of cases. And if you ask me, it is very strange why they don't want any independent investigators in their country unless it came from a lab. I'm not saying it did but if they got nothing to hide then why do they need to refuse access?
@baskinghobo: First, the focus now should be finding the vaccine and stopping the spread. Second, there is no such thing as an 'independent investigator'. Do you agree WHO is relatively impartial? Did you see the act from Trump whenever they say something objective about China?
Even if there were an investigation, whatever the result comes out, someone will call it falsified. If it's initiated by the U.S. they will find something, if it's initiated by China, they will find nothing.https://theintercept.com/2018/02/06/lie-after-lie-what-colin…
Also, should there ever be an investigation, all Countries should be investigated. Targeting China alone is a biased act and of course, they will never allow it.
@tidie: The WHO has there issues but it would still be 100x better then taking the word of an authoritarian government.
@baskinghobo: I don't understand why that is strange? It shouldn't be political. It should be scientists worldwide united and workIng together.
Why would they allow anyone else not an expertise in the field? Only an expertise can be independent and rely on scientific findings and not be motivated by political agendas.
China actually did quite well considering it is a novel virus. In jan, we thought their death rate was high and they performed poorly but now, in comparison with the rest of the world, chinese citizens really cannot fault their gov. They have controlled/eradicated the virus. They built isolation facilities instead of hotels and it was overseen by the the PLA.
Life in China has been back to normal for months. The gov did its job properly to keep its citizens safe.
If other countries had decent words to say and asked for help, china would do so. At the height of covid in NYC, hospitals had no PPE. Doctors had to wear ski suits and masks. They even ran out of anti bacterial wipes. The US gov issued a notice that doctors had to supply their own PPE. My friend worked in ER with patients waiting up to 80hrs for beds. It was China that sent private planes full of PPE to medics. My friend helped to distribute to hospital frontline workers. He lost his own grandad to the virus.
UK is going back into lockdown. Hope they sorted the issue of agency nurses which was a major contribution to the 42k deaths. Victoria was also due to agency nurses. 600+ deaths were from nursing homes. These residences are not going out but yet ppl brought the virus to them then spread around to other nursing homes. Brainless. The gov only have to protect the elderlies and immune compromise. Ensure nurses only work at 1 nursing home and if the aged care is too stingy to pay then gov can pay the wages. Still much cheaper than closing to the entire state.
Is that all people care about? Travelling abroad?
I am well traveled, all my family lives abroad, and I am not even concerned about not travelling.
People care about different things
Think of something you do care about, then imagine the Australian government took it away from you while the rest of the world could have itthis is not really true is it? Have you had a look how many countries currently have closed borders or restrictions?
Agreed. I have a collection of 1000 cars, and I am not even concerned about having a car
Give me a car?
hot wheels?
Not so much about travel, which is a luxury, but to visit family — especially grandparents who I usually see yearly.
I'm not sure how close you are to your "family", but surely you can understand that not being able to see them for several years can be a big deal for people.
I don't think people are too concerned about traveling for the sake of traveling, but rather traveling to see friends and family.
I am hoping to have a kid soon, I am just hoping that the international travel becomes a viable option so that I can introduce my wife to my family (she've seen my parents, but not my grandpa and others) and my first child can see his grandparents.
Though, if that doesn't happen in say, 5 years, I am not too fussed.
All my family is abroad. I haven't seen them for 4 years for different circumstances $, time, health.
It was my grandma's 90 this year and I planned to travel and see her. That didn't happen.
I was sick and needed family assistance. They couldn't come over.
I accept that the borders are closed and covid is everywhere.
So we talk on the phone and exchange messages, because that is what we can do now. And if stays like that for another 5 years, than that is it.
People are very over dramatic!
We aren't trying to be dramatic; different people just place different values on their family relationships. I was brought up by my grandma from a young age and so I'm really close to her. Her memory has also deteriorated recently due to Alzheimer's and so being physically with her is even more important to me.
I understand that we can't open normally due to the economic and health risks of COVID-19. I'm personally just hoping that there will some system in place that will mitigate the risks yet still allow for some normality in travel instead of an extended ban on international travel.
I don't think people are being overdramatic, I think family wanting to be together is a natural thing. By the sounds of things, you were away from your family for a long time beforehand anyways, so you are at least not completely thrown in at the deep end.
I am used to this kind of separation as well, hence why I am not that fussed.
I can see how this could be very sudden and overwhelming for people who've never expected or experienced this kind of separation though.
I don't care about travel for holidays, but I do care about the impact on some industries.
I work for a company which relies on international arrivals, so I'd be more than happy if my company paid for people to be quarantined and tested as many times as necessary - without it there's hundreds of local jobs at risk.
In this article the government claims 950,000 jobs will be created, somehow, but I know many of my coworkers won't return to the industry if we close. We'll need to retrain for a new job elsewhere if we're to survive until some indefinite date - why would we go back after reinvesting in something else?
Without some amount of international travel we'll have people moving to insecure work, at financial risk, with a reasonably significant brain drain that may take years to recover from (if our market isn't hoovered up by other countries that open up regardless of the risk).
I can only hope that we do open the borders, partially and slowly with a more robust quarantine/testing system to keep everyone safe. Hopefully a vaccine can then be developed safely without being rushed.
can you travel for work reasons still?
So long as you can get a travel exemption approved, sure.
So long as you’re a right wind ‘lord’
That's just a prediction.
Well the cures in Donald trump, he's mouths the cure, he's lizard like orange willywonker tan is, sadly no one's willing to lick him.
I'd love to know what he took because it's classed as experimental, and we all know how pharmaceutical companies are on experimental.
Most pharma have monopolies on vaccines and medication we have not even heard about, primarily because it's way to expensive, and would be little sales if people obtained it.
However if that theory's true then why is the vaccine not found yet?
Right now China's population has practically administed vaccines to most officials and representatives, but are they really covid free.
That's a spit in the worlds face(while cautiously trying not to head towards conspiracy theory, China's definitely aware of something the world isn't, because the sheer amount of people would make Melbournes lock down look laughable)
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/travel-stories…
Australia's chance fighting the virus with the world's best preventions, it could have been irradicated if people are responsible, Australia's geographical location makes it one of the best places to lock down potential outbreaks.
https://7news.com.au/travel/coronavirus/australias-covid-vac…
yeah keep them on the island so they don't spend job seeker and job keeper in Asia.
I have an exemption to travel already granted!
if you have a second passport you gonna get one easily
Kind of bummed by this news.
I just don't understand why they didn't treat this like any other flu, those at risk stay home?
It's a death sentence anyway if you cannot do anything for the next 3-4 years.
Need a plan to be COVID normal, not stay in doors, and wait… wait for what?
Welcome back!
How was your hibernation?
Was good.
International travel this year has been fun. I've had 4 COVID nose swabs and have spent 4 weeks in quarantine so far.
"Late 2021" - if there are any airlines, and any planes and any pilots qualified to fly them. If there is a vaccine.
Travel bubbles to NZ, and SEAsia, maybe…
I'm wondering what's the point of a vaccine if you can get it again a few months later? There have been confirmed reports of reinfections now and what's the point of a single strain vaccine when it's mutated into many strains and will keep doing so as a typical corona virus wouldn't mutate as often this one does at an alarming rate
I am guessing that it'd probably be like flu vaccine. We might have to get vaccinated every year. :(
At least that's the gist I got from the news articles I've been reading in terms of how volatile this virus is.
It's probably not going to be viable as a yearly thing and it's also going to have to grind travel to a halt atleast for Australians leaving for a holiday if immunity lasts from any where to a month to 3 is going to be treated like a cold I guess,
Im one of the few that are still stranded, being in japan is eye opening during this all everyone has gone back to almost normal now
If australia could handle things like japan hell even just tokyo the country would rebound in Leaps
The Australian media needs to be given an enema it has been fear mongering people since February
Heh, be fair, I think media hasn't been the greatest thing when it comes to anything for aeons.
I hope things die down, my parents are having their own problems in Korea, because of how badly COVID froze the economy.I think at least where I am in Australia, COVID hasn't been a terrible terrible issue, yet, at the very least.
Anyways, I hope you can get back home safely and without much hassles :)
Careful now, don't want those negs for your well thought out posts by the ignorant.
Actually, there is already a cure but it's free so not a very popular method.
Most healthy ppl will have a case of severe flu. If you r sick to the point you need oxygen n hospitalisation, at between day 8-11, if you get plasma transfusion for covalescent plasma, there's a 100% success rate with no side effects. My friend works in ER in NY and they give patients plasma transfusion. After 4hrs, patient can go home. The plasma will fight the virus until day 11 when your own body produces antibodies. Previously, these patients in ER, would be admitted to a ward, incubated with a slim chance of survival. They have been successfully saving patients in ER since end March/ early April.
FDA Grants Emergency Use to Convalescent Plasma for COVID-19
The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has granted Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for the use of convalescent plasma in treating coronavirus 2019 (COVID-19).
Many SEA countries having fast tracked travel unlocked with negative COVID tests, it should come sooner than end of 2021. Maybe with US 2022 or never, but beginning of next year we should be opening with the responsible countries.
Negative test 3 days before departure, negative test upon arrival, 2 day quarantine for a second arrival test and then reduce the load on quarantine facilities by 600%.
The problem with SEA countries and other less developed nations is that COVID tests are not free. This discourages people from taking the tests even though they have symptoms. Therefore the actual number of true cases is much much higher than actually reported.
Even then, zero local infections and all of them being from airport quarantine is a pretty good indicator. If there was local transmission, it wouldnt take too long before someone showed up in hospital and a test given.
To be honest, I think “late 2021” is very optimistic.
We haven’t even gotten to the point of opening all the internal borders so far, let alone international.
If “bubbles” open up, the only people who will be able to make use of them are people who don’t work and have lots of money. People who can take on 4 weeks quarantine (2 there, 2 back) onto all travel. Add more weeks for any extra countries. Add more if you get infected! Add healthcare costs (your insurance won’t cover you lol.)
For most of us, the borders are going to be closed probably until 2022 or longer.
I've got $1300AUD in airasia credits. Got to book by May 2022 before some of it starts to expire. I can book in May 2022 for flights in May 2023.
I have, though, kinda written it off in my head.
I'm not sure I want to fly anymore anyways.
I feel sorry for those who haven't traveled much.
Oh, and I am converting a van in to a camper; lots of ppl I know are doing this too.
I work in travel and work on strategy. The reason for the late 21 forecast is because the industry is banking on an April vaccine with 6 month roll out to have everyone vaccinated.
Any changes to these target dates will push back borders opening. Make no mistake, we don't open without a vaccine.
I'll be getting the Australia approved vaccine ASAP. The anti vaxxers calling it untested must not have heard of the large scale testing being done right now. In the highly unlikely of a side effect, oh well at least I got to travel again lol
The problem with side effects is that some of them might only happen after 1, 5, even 10 years later. No one knows…
No one knows the long-term effects of COVID19 yet either but so far they look pretty damaging.
Whereas the side effects of covid are potentially death, lung scaring as well as who knows what in 1,5 or even 10 years. We absolutely KNOW covid has many potential long term and short term consequences, personally I would take my chances with a vaccine that has passed stage 3 trials over the chance of covid damage or death.
The problem with side effects is that some of them might only happen after 1, 5, even 10 years later. No one knows…
Nonsense, show me a vaccine which:
(1) Causes side-effects worse than the effect of the illness it prevents
(2) Shows those side-effects only after 10 (or even 5) yearsI'll wait…
This is just rank fear-mongering. It's like saying don't drive because your wheels might fly off in the middle of a freeway flinging you into a truck and you dying a fiery death. It's not impossible, sure, but it's literally never happened before, and the probability of it happening are, for all intents and purposes, zero.
Yeah, the side effect of my unknown source Glandular is my pre-MS.
I would rather die of MS over COVID because A) I'm already (profanity) and B) I still Glandular which makes every "normal cold" turn horrible for me.
So, I'll take my chances tyvm
PUT your faith IN
Could not care less about overseas travel. When you live in OZ we have everything you could want. Excited about the state boarders opening though.
Don't think travel is just for things that you want. Yes, Australia has many things to see, great beaches, forests, mountains etc. However, it is fascinating to see and try to understand other cultures and really opens your eyes and mind. There are also so many amazing things to see that don't exist in Australia and maybe even unique to a specific country.
I think a lot of people 'take the blue pill' and have a very small view of the world.
This really sucks as my wife’s father in Japan has just been diagnosed with stage IV cancer and likely has 6-12 months life expectancy. Going to be tough time ahead sadly. It all happens at the worst possible time.
Sorry to hear mate. Hope he does ok
Surely your wife can get a flight exemption to visit? :(
This sucks :(
I was about to go to America for a month this August. See my Baseball team
Normally the wife and I go overseas for a month every year. I have something amazing to look forward too.
Now this shit. Maybe it is time to see Australia? As we just used to leave the country every chance we got.
Funny enough last November we went to China and Singapore before all this shit happened.
Probably when the world opens back up. we will do another big trip around Europe?Right now the biggest excitement for me is the release of Xbox series X and PS5…
That and sports.I also traveled every year.
This year alone I had flights cancelled to: Philippines, New Zealand, Hawaii, Canberra and Sunshine Coast. - All places I have never been before.
But I def don't want spend 10 hours sitting on a crammed airplane with potentially sick people.
So I am fine, there are plenty of places in my state I have never been, so I am okay with this.
[all my family live abroad too, therefore I can't go and see them, and vice versa]
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/rising-covid-cases-t…
Australians should take Europe and the United States off their travel list for the whole of next year if there is no coronavirus vaccine
Talking to my SO because we both are keen to go back and we're thinking 2030 at this stage?
The US is screwed over daily
Once there is a travel bubble with New Zealand I wonder if we could fly there first to avoid the outbound travel ban since NZ allows outbound. I think wanting to live with family overseas is a pretty valid reason for a travel exemption but I think our gov disagrees. Saved a lot of money this year but being in Melbourne has been pretty shizen housin.
I was wondering the same.
How do you get back though 🤔
Thus is just dumb
OP in Melbourne telling QLD what to do OMG !
WTF you on about? I'm having fun shorting airlines which your QLD government has ploughed millions into.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8808275/Queensland-…
I never said that I support them just not having a choice. Our chook is also indirectly stealing taxpayers money to prop up FLT. Hopefully we get a change end of month.
I had travel booked in september - was going to do 10 nights in london flying ecconomy. I didn't lose much in cash (all the shows and tours i booked i got a refund on - all i lost was travel insurance and seat selection fee on the airline)
I'm going to take the time and save up and fly business class and add paris and berlin to my trip. i'm looking at the postitve
I guess you're not watching that part of the news. They are.