Mobile Speed Camera Warning Signs to Be Removed from NSW Roads

Guess i will be running WAZE from the google play store full time and updating on the regular for other drivers on the road now.

Personally i feel this is just another cash grab and ultimately they want to roll out more privately owned mobile speed camera's so they can nab you anywhere at anytime without signage.

What do you all think about this? and is there anything that we can do to keep the current system how it is?

Poll Options expired

  • 9
    Totally unfair and unsportsmanlike
  • 18
    This won't save any extra lives , people are going to speed irregardless.
  • 399
    Great , speeders are scumbags
  • 448
    Big Daddy Government Revenue Raising Again


  • +3

    For those saying this will help reduce crashes- then should we remove all school zone limit signs too and just say alert school?
    fyi i'm for it..but just saying

    • +3

      Remove stop signs while we're at it so we're cautious at every intersection.

    • I think school zones would be a different argument. Their purpose is to specifically slow you down in that area. So signs are necessary. The more the better.

      Mobile speed cameras with no signs deter you from speeding in general.

  • Next to go will be the Speed Limit Signs! But they will still enforce the limit…..

  • +1

    people that speed are scum, I get tail gated all the time for driving on the limit eg 50 at 50 zone

    tailgate me and i drive slower biaches!

    • Sound like a typical right lane hog who'd instantly crash on acceleration to 51kmh. Funny, overly speed cautious drivers I encounter are much more likely to do stupid shit like suddenly change lanes (and into blindspots) or change lanes without indicators.

      I think it's due to their limited processing power being spent on speed checks.

      • Learn the road rules before you embarrass yourself online! The speeds signs are speed “LIMITS” not speed “TARGETS”!

        When a sign says 60 for example, it means the MAX is 60! Not “you should drive at 60 at all times”!

        I’m talking about single lane roads! I’m not going to go above the speed LIMIT so some “fully sick tryhard wannabe” can seem cool driving his WRX!

        It’s actually frightening how many people don’t know what the speed signs actually mean!

        • Triggered? You might want to redirect that limited processing power elsewhere.

  • +3

    The only really deterent from speeding drivers is more highway patrols on the road.

    Having mobile speed cameras won't stop the person from speeding, as they would still be speeding after they have passed the camera.

    This is pure revenue raising.

    What about people high on drugs and drunk while driving. Those 4 poor kids that where killed at Oatlands earlier this year was because of a drunken idiot who was also high on drugs.

    I would rather people speeding 5 or 10 kms over the limit than a drunken fool driving under the speed limit.

    • +1

      The only really deterent from speeding drivers is more highway patrols on the road.

      Yes, like maybe one every 3km, on every main and side street. Who's going to pay for it though? Maybe what we need is cameras everywhere that ID drivers and cars, and if you lose points, you lose freedom privileges.
      It's a shame people can't be trusted, but also complain about being a nanny state.

      I would rather people speeding 5 or 10 kms over the limit than a drunken fool driving under the speed limit.

      Are cops actively choosing between pursuing speeders and drunk drivers?

  • I like WAZE however if no signs then no drivers would be able to report camera on it then.

    • +3

      You can see the car though.

      • Thanks. I will keep WAZE on whenever possible.

  • I'm generally fine with this.. excuse the pun.. However am still a believer that the revenue should go somewhere completely independent of the road services.. If anything raising more money should be a indication that they are doing a poor job - not be an incentive..

  • +4

    Wish Google maps would give an audio alert when going say 3 km/h over the limit. Tom Tom used to do this. Tried the overlay app that shows your speed on top of Google maps, but it wanted permission to be running all the time, not something I was comfortable with.

    For the record, I don't deliberately speed (never had a speeding ticket in my 28 years of driving, all in NSW), but I know sometimes I end up driving faster than the limit when I'm just going with the flow of traffic (eg doing 68 in a 60 zone, when it's a wide straight road with good lines of sight and all the traffic is doing that speed). Instead of watching the speedo all the time would be far better to have Maps just give an audio heads up, and concentrate on the road.

    • Waze can give speed notifications

  • What's wrong with a cash grab? They need to raise revenue somehow. Might as well be from speeders than me.

  • +3

    @Stewy I agree with you 100%. Speeding is no where near the main problem on our roads, its probably one of the most insiginificant issues we have. The main issues on our roads are:

    • Distracted drivers: mobile phones, talking to passengers in the car, eating/drinking, looking out of the window at anything but the road, the list of distractions is endless.

    • Poor driver skill: do i really need to explain this one? Poor driving training, no ongoing driver training etc

    • Poor road maintenance and conditions: Way too many signs on the road significantly add to distractions, constant change of speed limits, poor road design and maintenance.

    If speeding killed, most of the population would be dead by now as I dont know anyone including myself that has never exceeded the speed limit at one point in their lives. Speeding is an easy excuse to increase revenue.

    Of course some will argue we need to reduce speed limits to cater for the reasons I mentioned above, if that's the case why not reduce all our speed limits to 20km/h? If saving lives is that important to the Government and general public, surely reducing speed limits to a crawl will reduce the road toll to zero.

    Cracking down on distracted drivers, poor driver skill and improving road design/maintenance wont raise any revenue, it would actually cost a significant amount of money. This why the Government focuses on the easy way out, speeding.

    Unfortunately we live in a society of sheep where the average IQ is that of a peanut who believe everything the government says.

    • +2

      Poor driver skill: do i really need to explain this one? Poor driving training, no ongoing driver training etc

      Yes I hate this the most. Douchebags who tailgate. The worst.

    • +5

      Speed doesn’t kill directly - it limits reaction time, increases braking distance immensely, and increases the forces involved such that accidents are more likely, and more severe when a hazard appears.

      Accident research continually implicates speed as a contributing of not causal factor.

      The other issues you raise (mobile phone use, distraction / awareness, and driver capability) are all real issues too. Mobile phone cameras are one way of addressing this.

      I do agree that prevention is always better than cure - it’s a pity that as a culture we don’t discourage these behaviours enough.

    • Even though you're a cro, I'll agree.

    • +2

      Distracted drivers etc are a problem by itself, but imagine

      Distracted drivers + speeding
      Poor driving skills + speeding
      Poor road conditions + speeding

      While speeding itself may not be the killer itself, it can turn a broken leg into broken dead body. Risk can be reduced without impacting the whole economy going at snails pace.

      Theres always more than 1 hazard on the road, some are more controllable than others. Just because one is more important, it doesn't mean other hazards should be ignored. I think humans are smart enough to multitask and make more than 1 rule at a time…

    • +2

      Seriously why are Sydneysiders such shit drivers? What is wrong with the driver education in this state? I actually kid you not, every single day I see some moron who does something idiotic on the road, be it:

      • Pulling out of a lane/turning lane because they can't be bothered waiting, after signalling for one second/blink of their indicator and seemingly not bothering to wait to see if the coast is clear (this has resulted in a lot of near misses)
      • Driving down a bus lane only to cut into a queue because they are an impatient (profanity) who thinks they deserve to get to their destination before anyone else gets to theirs
      • Driving at night without their headlights on (I've even seen P-platers do this)
      • Driving 10km below the speed limit (even during peak hour), where driving at the actual speed limit would increase the efficiency of the road system especially during peak hour times
      • Stopping in a queue and leaving a two car gap with the car in front, then inching their way forward to close the gap forcing the driver behind them to move forward (leaving large gaps with the car in front also can prevent people from getting into a turning lane, resulting in increased inefficiency of the road system). Leaving a gap makes sense sometimes, e.g. if you get rear ended and don't want to rear end the car in front, but leaving large gaps only to close them up after the driver behind you has stopped is infuriating (especially if the driver behind you drives a manual car)
      • Related to the previous point: Inching their way forward during peak hour as if they think constantly moving will get them to their destination faster, seriously just move to the car in front and stop instead of driving so slowly
      • Not being aware that a car is turning into a lane and then turning/merging into that lane
      • Drivers not paying attention and/or driving slowly at a green arrow resulting in only 3 cars getting through the green when 5 cars could have made it past

      I think that speeding and driver education/attitude makes Sydney roads so much worse than they could be. Not even to mention how some roads should have clear ways all day, and how the speed limit on some roads seriously need to be reassessed.

      • +1

        When I went to sydney I'm pretty sure I encountered all those points (except the night one) on the way from the airport to the hotel…

  • They need to pay for the Entertainment vouchers somehow

  • NSW man avoids speeding fines by following this one weird old tip (don't speed).

    Revenue raisers hate him!

    • True.
      A financial analogy would be putting all your spending on a credit card (earning points), but then pay off the total balance every month.
      Credit card companies don't like you, but there are enough other idiots out there happy to pay interest.
      If you don't speed you don't pay

  • +1

    I think that the incidence of catching out accidental, short intervals of speeding will be far exceeded by punishing intentional, habitual speeding. The risk of being caught for them is just so much higher.

    If we were all as amazing at driving as we tell ourselves, we would have no problem staying at the speed limit.

    The camera cars aren’t that hard to spot, either.

  • +12


    I passed one literally last week. Bugger had setup at the bottom of a very steep straight hill, 3 lane major road but was signposted at 60km/h. Of course everyone rolling down the hill picked up speed and would've been over the limit.

    I noticed the TINY sign of an upcoming "check" and realised I was a bit over so pulled back to the limit.

    But that's the sort of shit they do. Sitting at the bottom of steep inclines or hiding behind trees on major roads. Not in 'black spots' or places of previous accidents.

    • +2

      From the description you provided, the location seems to be one where there are a number of speeding drivers. Seems to me to be a good location to target.

      • +7

        This is the exact problem with the messaging the government and road bodies give. It instills in peoples minds the false belief that "speeding" immediately = bad and deserving of punishment from the state.

        There's no independent thought or critical analysis, just a dumb blanket rule to never be questioned.

        This is strict adherence to the law without any consideration for the intent of the law

        The particular location of this SUV mobile camera, was like I said at the bottom of a very steep straight hill, 3 lane major road but was signposted at 60km/h. There were no close houses or anything to the road, no large scale commercial shops that would draw pedestrians (actually there were no pedestrians at all, and no pedestrian footpath in this area).

        This is precisely the WRONG place to target, because the speed limit there is simply circumstantial (i.e. road designers don't want to constantly have changing speed limits over short distances, so they keep a single lowest speed limit over areas that would otherwise have higher speed limits).

        The purpose of the road laws around speeding is to save lives. Targeting an area like this has absolutely NOTHING to do with saving lives. It's about getting revenue.

        Laws are never designed to be absolute - Australian's as a general public have an utterly terrible understanding of this legal fact. Circumstances and context absolutely matter, but that requires using a little bit of brain power which is too much for some.

  • +1

    I started driving when there was no such thing as a speed camera and radar was just a box sitting on the roof of a police car while the cop stood beside it monitoring it. Speeding was a fun thing to me. There was also a lot less traffic than there is today. I had a mentality that if you went really fast then the only car coming up in your rear vision mirrors was either crazier than you or a cop so you slowed down anyway. I have always had a vehicle with performance above average. I gotta say that today I am paranoid about speeding? Why? Simply because I came within 1 point of losing my licence 5 years ago because of speed cameras. It changed my appetite for risk completely. And tbh it was way overdue. I had pushed the limits my entire life. Since deciding never to consciously speed I have enjoyed getting from A to B without stress. I also now allow enough time to get where I want to go rather than time it out to the exact time I need to be there. Again less stress. So for me speed camera signs and speed cameras don’t factor into my driving anymore. Sure people slow down suddenly when they see a camera but they do that for other things like school zones too. You just allow for it. So I think it’s time for us to get over this victimisation as a driver over speed enforcement. Focus on the task at hand instead of whether you will get caught accidentally doing something wrong. If you have to speed because of a matter of danger then you have a defence but let’s be honest, how often does that happen? Really. Get with the program and be a better citizen because it feels a lot less stressful and you will enjoy your driving a lot more and reduce road rage - most likely your own. Oh and btw my current car can still get from 0 to 100 in 5 seconds.

    • +4

      "I broke the law when I was young but young people deserve to be punished for the same thing I did and got away with", yep, classic boomer.

      • Nothing wrong with a classic sonny :-p

  • Mobile speed cameras is one thing, I think a lot of those fixed cameras are now detecting both directions of traffic if there's only 4 lanes in total with no median strip in the middle.

    Take a look at the flash in front of the camera, they've adjusted the angle of those things at a lot of sites to cover both directions now. Ask me how I know….

  • +1

    One seventh of drivers/passengers killed in nsw in 2018 were not wearing seat belts.

    I don’t know anyone who doesn’t wear a belt.

    But yeah, good thing they’re focusing on speed cameras during budget week.

    I feel safer already.

  • +2

    Why do so many drivers these days think they are entitled to do over the speed limit?
    Dont speed …. No fine. Simple.

    • +1

      With speed limits changing constantly on our roads and drivers having to focus on so many other things such as other signage on roads, other drivers behaviour, road conditions etc, do you really think its ideal that drivers should be constantly keeping their eyes on their speedos to make sure they arent 1 or 2 km over the limit? The goal should be to reduce driver distraction, not increase it. Eyes should be on the road AT ALL TIMES, not the speedo or anything else. This would greatly reduce accidents and deaths on the road.

      • Is it really that hard to keep your speed constant without staring at it? Lol

        • +3

          No its not, I never said it is. All I am saying that it's another factor that can distract drivers, especially ones who are already distracted enough as it is by other things. Should it really matter that someones doing 65 in a 60 zone by accident? Does that equal instant death?

          • +1

            @Stevecro: You're implying that it is. A decent driver doesn't need to look at their speedo so much that its a distraction.

            • +1

              @Ughhh: I think what they are implying is a margin of error is acceptable, modern vehicles have significantly better safety features and better braking concentrating on your surrounds is a lot safer then looking at you speedo continuously. I mean if its only a glance every so often then why cant you glance at your mobile?

              • @tomfool:

                is a lot safer then looking at you speedo continuously

                If you're looking at your speedo continuously, you need to be off the road and hire a driving instructor.

                I mean if its only a glance every so often then why cant you glance at your mobile?

                Does your speedo have push notifications, showing new instagram feeds, FB messages and cat pics?

          • +1

            @Stevecro: Really strange logic saying that if people have to pay attention to their speed that's a distraction. That's like saying a surgeon is distracted when they are performing an operation. When you drive, part of the task is to drive at the limit. When you learn to drive, you need to learn to be aware of the speed you are going. As you said, it's not hard at all to keep an eye on your speed, or to regulate your speed based on the gradient of the road by either decreasing the pressure you're putting on the accelerator, pushing it harder or even braking, so why is this an issue?

            People seem to think that glancing at the speedo means that they can't see anything at all on the road. A simple quick glance at your speedo does not mean you will crash or hit a person, and by quick glance I mean literally 0.5 of a second max, and it is not a distraction. If you are staring at your speedo and taking 5 seconds to process the speed you are driving at, and then trying to do some maths on that compared to the speed limit of the road, then you need to stop driving. Similarly if glancing at your speedo is a distraction then doing a head check, looking in your side and rear view mirrors must also be distractions too since you are taking your eyes off the road in front of you, right?

            • @Ghost47: Try glancing down whilst on a motorcycle. It's a huge distraction.

              • @MoeyDW2200: I'm sure it is, never rode a bike. I'm referring to driving a car mainly. Maybe speed limits shouldn't apply to riders because if they get in an accident they're stuffed.

      • It's not hard…with enough driving experience I can roughly know where I'm sitting. If the roads are empty, I set it on cruise control. If the roads have cars and congested, I try to maintain the flow of traffic. If it seems people are passing me or I'm overtaking others, I check my speedo. Everyone else almost acts as a buffer sometimes. I still think I check it quite often, hardly a distraction otherwise billboards and advertising on trucks should be banned.

    • Because driving to conditions and paying attention to the road is safer than focusing your attention to sitting exactly on an relatively arbitrary defined number.

      • I've seen this comment brought up like 50 times here. I hardly think most people who condemn speeding are bothered by the accidental speeding but those who consistently go 120 on a 100 road, 100 on 80 etc. Like you can't drive pass that many cars and not know you're speeding. It's clear there are people who intentionally speed, who intentionally think they are able to and think that somehow they are eligible to speed because they probably falsely think of themselves as amazing drivers.

  • +2

    If they really wanted people to slow down, why wouldn't they deploy the signs en masse, like ~10 signs for every camera, then you'd never know which one was for a real camera and generally just slow down.

    Same in Perth with fixed cameras on our freeways, build a box that houses them every couple of kilometres, and change around the boxes that the actual cameras are in.

  • Your GPS should warn you

  • +7

    Shame on Constance and other Ministers using the families to sell this change. Remember Mike Baird sold the lock out laws that decimated kings cross with the family of the coward punch victim. Our government uses these families.

    • +7

      This. They're using a tragedy to push this agenda.

  • -1

    if you do not commit the crime you do not do the time,
    very simple isn't it,

    • Vanilla ISIS would struggle with that analogy. They think everything is rigged if it is not in their favour.

  • +1

    I've never quite understood why we have signs. All it does is test your ability to read tiny road signs. I personally would like to see more speed signs, especially on highway and country roads.

    • They slow you down if youre going too fast. Signs save lives.

  • We need ‘Attention Cameras’.
    I have been known to speed and not pinged or had a crash for a decade+. Basically I just pay attention and notice suspicious cars on the side of the road and slow down.
    If I get caught it’s my own stupid fault.

  • +3

    Revenue raising at best. If the minister wants zero deaths, just ban all motor vehicles. Sadly, accidents and mistakes will happen - there is no such thing as zero risk in life, for anything. You could sit at home and never go out but still at risk of death, just saying.

    Driving sucks in 2020; now I drive like a slow coach, I set cruise control on most of the time so that I don't get pinged by random speed cameras.

    Why not all revenue from speeding be put towards CTP and lifetime care support cost for example?

    • Driving does suck in 2020. Seems a lot of drivers have all the time in the world.

  • Happy as long as they give speed tolerance say 10km for does limit of 100 over and 5km for 50 zone if NSW wants to focus on road safety.

    • If you compare your speedo to a GPS, you'd find that 60 on your speedo is a little higher. So that's your buffer already.

      • +1

        I have calibrated and it is within 2-3km variance.

      • +1

        That depends on a car, and it does not need to be always true.

  • +4

    Revenue raising

  • Respect the speed limit signs you'll have no problems.

  • -1

    People will drive safer because they will be to scared to speed

  • What they should do is this, if someone is Speeding past a camera(if autonomous, or with capable features it enforces the car to pull over, and a introduction to road safety spears on the navigation system, if they ignore it as a warning, then next time it happens) the car will not operate for 30 minutes immediately pulling over and if stil no Change in behaviour, the police officer can tap the QR code associated with your registration to determine the amount of times you have had warnings.

    The second option for analogue cars, there will be pin strips on the road, that if speed has been exceeded a fine of $50, if twice $100, if three times, the bin strips will hit the tires slowly letting air out,(enough to have the tires deflate indefinitely, and if stationery and a police officer notices the car on the side of the road is when with a additional 250$ fine happens), the pin strips raise up if speeding then retract to allow other cars to move over.

    And yes I'm fun at parties.

    • +1

      Everyone should get retested and if they’re crap drivers forced to do lessons. They should tag all drivers who drive under the limit, leave space for a full car in front of them when waiting at lights, and wait behind cars that they can go around.

      • Yeah that too, the current system is flawd as hell, Japans road system is way better then Australia, they have blue lights rather green, and they have a numbered system allowing
        Cars at traffic lights to determine when to accelerate, in a respectul manner.

        In Australia it's just a colour that just aggravates most people.

        And obtaining your learner license in Japan is much strict and disciplined then here, for example, if your a international driver you can drive there for a period of 1 year, (but if stil there after a 1 year, you must move to obtaining a Japanese license) the tests are all in testing facilities, and the courses are hard, one mistake and it's game over, hit a cone, drive to fast.

        Each state in Australia has its own rules and regulations, especially Sydney, all service centres don't even have testing tracks, or supply cars for testing.

        Anyone can just get a friend to attend the driving test and if they pass, they pass.

        • You will fail your test as well in Australia if you hit a cone or drive too fast.

          • @Mistredo: Me referring to before the driving test, the training course must have you profficiant before driving on the road

  • -2

    I can't believe this isn't already a thing in NSW. It's such a joke to me that they have mobile cameras here and signs 200m up the road warning speeders to slow down. It's absolutely idiotic this has to be done. What's the damn point of a mobile camera if you're just going to warn people about it?

    • Someone going too fast will slow down when they see the sign.

      • +1

        And then they won't get fined, and the people who speed intentionally go unpunished for driving like idiots on the road. Sometimes people need to get the slap on the wrist to change their behaviour.

        • +1

          Sometime cameras get put in dangerous spots where the limit should be observed. Sometimes people go above the limit when it’s safe to do so

  • Hope they put hidden cameras in quiet streets to and catch all the scum going 80-100 in my 50 street!

    • -2

      Where's this street? It can probably do with some new tire marks.

  • What is the point of cameras if there's a sign warning you beforehand?

    • Deterence , would you shoplift from a store with a camera or the store without a camera if all other things were equal?

      Think of it as giving constant fear to society , an empty police car on the side of the road is a scarecrow for humans.

      Even if you feel it has no impact to you it works on the general mass populace because people are sheep.

      • So people speed everywhere except where the signs are?

        • +1

          Congratulations , you learned something new today. Share with your friends

        • -1

          Are you serious?

  • +9

    Honestly, I consider speeding fines a cost of car ownership now - like rego, insurance, fuel, tyres, service etc.

    Any driver on this continent who claims they never speed is simply lying to themselves or to everyone else. Its impossible to not speed, even accidentally, down hills, in car parks, overtaking, on roads with silly speed limits or sudden changes (100kph to 50kph). If you get caught, its simply bad luck.

    I don't excessively or deliberately speed. If I get penalized for that then I'm certainly not changing the way I drive nor will I care about the fines

  • I never really understood why people complain about not having warnings about breaking the speed limit or speed cameras.

    I understand that it is an issue if the cameras are faulty or not well calibrated but aren't the speed limit signs not enough warning or do we need to signs to tell us when to indicate as well?

    Maybe the best way to encourage the government to keep the current system is to make the speeding traps and fines unprofitable. Like not breaking the law and copping the fines as law abiding drivers.
    Speed kills folks…..I'd rather not see another article about a person dying because of some reckless driver than to see fewer speed cameras.

  • +1

    I've heard these quotes from police in the news etc
    "one life is too many"
    "I wish I could have zero fines"
    "its worth it if it saves one life"

    ok, life is so valuable, why don't they ban smoking then.

  • +3

    The whole point of speed cameras is to encourage drivers to slow down and abide by the posted speed limit. This is achieved by signage.

    If the government removes the signs then it is clear that the primary purpose of speed cameras is revenue raising.

    If the presence of speed cameras is not advertised then people will not slow down which defeats the propose of speed cameras.

    • -2

      If the government removes the signs it is clear that the government wants drivers to abide by the speed limit everywhere not just where there are speed cameras.

  • +5

    Maybe fines should be handed out for people doing 40 in a 60 / 30 in a 50. Just as dangerous at times.

    Plus the morons who sit in the outside lane on a freeway not doing the limit, when they have another 2 lanes on the inside free.

  • +3

    Well the Libs have to find money from somewhere so they can buy overpriced land off their mates…

  • Doh

  • +3

    It's disgusting how many people voted for "Great , speeders are scumbags". (profanity) idiots supporting outdated speed limits because driving is too scary for them.

    • -2

      It's disgusting how many people voted for "Big Daddy Government Revenue Raising Again". (profanity) idiots who don't accept the FACT that "Driving too fast is the single biggest contributor to death and injury on NSW roads."

      Wake up mate.
      Hold your disgust for those too clueless to save their own lives, let alone the innocent people they kill every year.
      Surely you would have a loved one that drives a car right? So you'd be accepting of their death if you knew the person that killed them was speeding when they collided with them?

      • "Driving too fast is the single biggest contributor to death and injury on NSW roads."

        This is a really shitty "fact" that's often trotted out to justify the revenue raising. Reality is, almost every crash lists "speed" as a factor by default. Even though this is an impossible to determine metric for the vast majority of accidents. They aren't out there analysing every tyre mark in every accident, they aren't measuring stopping distances, there aren't black boxes inside cars recording their past behaviours like planes (at least 99% of cars don't have that).

        The stats for this "fact" are from police reports, which just default tick off "Reason for crash?: Speed" without any thought, consideration, or evidence.

        Don't be fooled by this bullshit.

        • QAnon alert!

          Speed is the only factor in any accident Einstien! (or is that Newton?)
          If a 2000 kg ute hits a brick wall (keeping it simple because im guessing you're a dropout (aka tradesperson) of some ilk
          The force applied on the utes front is equal to the mass of the ute multipled by the (difference in its intial and final speed over the time taken to stop).

          If we want to sort out how much force was applied to the wreakage by the brick wall and the weight of the ute is known, then the single and only factor or fact is the inital and final speed.

          Speed is the only reason for the crash/impact/force!

          Its not related to 5G or vaccinations or facts dreamt up by police.

          • @TSH: …wat…

            that's one of the most disingenuous replies i've ever relieved.

        • They aren't out there analysing every tyre mark in every accident,

          Can you make tyre Marks if the crash occurred while cars were travelling at 10km/hr?

  • +5

    Does driving 5km above the speed limit count as "speeding"? Literally everyone does that.

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