Brimbank Council Will Not Refund for Extra Garbage Bin

mountford on 19/11/2020 - 18:39
Last edited 19/11/2020 - 19:10 by 1 other user

I am hoping to get some advice where I can go from here after trying unsuccessfully to have local council refund me for overcharging me for extra garbage bin.

A decision to downsize my garbage bin to the smallest (no need for bigger bin and save money) has surprise me that I have been paying for 2 garbage bins all these years after enquiring with Brimbank Council (26/9) and staff ascertain if I have 2 bins. Towards end of conversation I was advise to pay the October 5th due bill as per the notice and they will credit the difference.

I honestly thought the so call ‘environmental charge’ x2 on the rate notice are for the yellow top recycle bin & garbage bin! After no response and unanswered calls week later, I emailed them.
They replied with “owners given the opportunity to check their charges…”. I explained I genuinely thought the ‘environmental charge x2’ was for the 2 bins I have (recycle & garbage).
Her reply: ‘As previously stated the Annual Rates Notice is the opportunity for residents to check the correctness of their notices and make enquiries within 60 days of the issue date of the notice in regards to changes and objections for the current financial year as listed on the notice. This has also been true for previous years, therefore we are not able to refund previous financial years charges’
She did not address my question if this is an error on Brimbank Council for charging me double from the start. The extra bin charges amount to $1563.89 from 2015 to 2019. As for the difference they were supposed to credit for having downsize to a smaller bin (price difference $149) that didn’t happen. They only credited the 20/21 for the bin they overcharged.

I am at a lost as what to do next. The Brimbank Council office is still closed because of the pandemic. Can this be a case for small claim tribunal? I have never use them. Would appreciate some advice.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • whooah1979 on 19/11/2020 - 18:44

    Did the supplier give you an invoice back in 2015 and did it included a t&c?

  • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 18:51
    +17

    Councils are a law upon themselves. Just move on.

    If you want to see who can afford to waste more time dragging this out, remember,
    1. They are professionals when it comes to being inefficient. That includes time inefficiency.
    2. You're paying them for it.

    I'm considering running for local council in the distant future. Vote for me and I promise I'll do nothing. The only difference between myself and other councillors are.
    1. I'll be honest about doing nothing to demonstrate how little the position matters.
    2. I don't even want to spend your money.

  • tio on 19/11/2020 - 18:58
    +5

    I'd fight that if I can. Essentially you were charged for services that not rendered. That's no different from banks charge fees for no services.

    • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 18:59
      +7

      Council paid to remove more rubbish.

      They collected rubbish.

      Now there's no rubbish.

      They delivered.

      (Think of it as OP forgetting to roll the extra bins out for 5 years.)

      • tio on 19/11/2020 - 19:05
        +3

        from reading OP, i thought the charges were for 2 x red bins, but only 1 x red bin ever been made available to OP, hence service not rendered in my book.

        • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 19:11
          +8

          It's always up to homeowner to ask council for bins if they are missing, stolen or damaged.

          On this case, it is missing for 5 years.

      • mountford on 19/11/2020 - 20:45
        +1

        I have only one bin when I move in, never requested another bin. But billed for 2

        • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 21:05
          +5

          Previous owner may have requested for two.

          The arrangement is ongoing. It was on you to check. I am no fan of pointless layer of government but you ain't winning this one because you're actually the one that has not done the due diligence.

          If it is any consolation, you'd probably lose even if you were in the right.

          • tio on 19/11/2020 - 22:01
            +2

            @[Deactivated]: Using the bank's fee for no service analogy, and what has been established through the royal commission, if I found out I'd been paying for a service and that service hadn't been supplied, I would fight for a refund. I appreciate that if it were you, you'd let it go, that's fine.

            • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 22:03
              +1

              @tio: The service was provided.

              If OP rolled two bins out, it would have both been collected.

              If you sign up for two Netflix accounts, you can view in two places simultaneously.

              You can't claim "services not rendered" because you didn't use the service.

              You can't claim a refund on last year's insurance.

              You can't claim a refund on a flight you missed.

              You can't go around claiming "service not rendered".

              • tio on 19/11/2020 - 22:11
                +3

                @[Deactivated]: I believe we have different understanding of what "the service" is and as such, I agree to disagree with you.

                • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 22:15
                  +1

                  @tio: Respectfully, your understanding doesn't change the definition of a solicited service.

                  Someone solicited the service. OP assumed the service along with the property upon purchase.

                  No one gets to discharge a liability through ignorance and oversight. They do so by making a request.

                  Lo and behold, the request was made, the liability was reduced.

                  • tio on 19/11/2020 - 22:32

                    @[Deactivated]:

                    Respectfully, your understanding doesn't change the definition of a solicited service.

                    Agree

                    Someone solicited the service.

                    Speculation

                    OP assumed the service along with the property upon purchase.

                    Disagree

                    No one gets to discharge a liability through ignorance and oversight. They do so by making a request.
                    Lo and behold, the request was made, the liability was reduced.

                    Non-issue

              • Quantumcat on 19/11/2020 - 22:30
                +2

                @[Deactivated]: The service was providing two bins, where only one was provided. The service isn't just collecting rubbish.

                That's like going to a hotel, patting for a room and not getting a room, and then them saying but you only paid to have a room serviced, and we have been servicing all the rooms so you've got what you paid for.

                • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 22:42

                  @Quantumcat:

                  The service was providing two bins, where only one was provided. The service isn't just collecting rubbish.

                  They would have. If a bin has been damaged or lost, it is up to the rate payer to make it known.

                  Councils don't go around delivering bins when a bin has not been spotted curb side.

                  That's like going to a hotel..

                  To follow your analogy, it is like buying a package deal from someone who doesn't want it anymore, being given keycards to the hotel rooms. The seller didn't pass you one of the cards, or maybe it has been misplaced. You didn't use the room because you weren't even aware it was included. 5 years later, you want a refund for that room from the hotel.

                  PS. The next time you buy a house (not a new build), see if council sends you new bins. After all, you claim that council needs to provide the bins. If you don't have the correct number of bins, it means council isn't delivering the service. We both know this isn't how it works.

                  • chunfat on 21/11/2020 - 15:50
                    +1

                    @[Deactivated]: I agree with your comments @tshow. I know it is unfair for the government to intentionally/unintentionally to overcharge. But when it happens, it is the buyer/user responsibility to check if they received what they paid for.

                    This is the same for utilitly companies like Electricity. When they overcharge/undercharge, you have 1y to request correction. Any years exceeding the 1years will NOT be update/corrected. Irrespective who is being overcharge/undercharged.

                    I helped a friend to establish a running electricity meter that was not billed for over 4 years. They did not have to pay a cent for anything preceding the 1y from the date of acknowledgement.

                    NOTE: I advise him that this must be corrected by the initiation of the user (and not the electricity distributor) because the electricity was for a restaurant business that cannot afford a extended period of power cuts when they do find out what has happened, which normally starts by permanently cutting power supply for months. This electricity meter correction took over 6 months of emails, photos, phone calls to correct the distributor error. Anyway, it saved his business over $30K in electricity bills.

  • JimmyF on 19/11/2020 - 19:02

    She did not address my question if this is an error on Brimbank Council for charging me double from the start

    Well they did. They said

    Her reply: ‘As previously stated the Annual Rates Notice is the opportunity for residents to check the correctness of their notices and make enquiries within 60 days of the issue date of the notice in regards to changes and objections for the current financial year as listed on the notice

    Sounds like you had a chance to question the charges in 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 and again in 2020, which you have.

    The 'mistake' has been corrected now you questioned it.

    I am at a lost as what to do next.

    Nothing, the problem has been fixed.

    Can this be a case for small claim tribunal? I have never use them.

    Not at all. What case.

    But what happened to the old 2nd bin? How does the council know you haven't been using it all these years? Its your word against theirs.

    Do you have to return a 'bin'?

    Would appreciate some advice.

    Move on with life.

    • mountford on 19/11/2020 - 21:00

      You didn't understand what I have written. I moved in 5 years ago there was no old bin, that's what I mean they didn't address if this could have been their error charging me double by default and hope it get pick up within 60 days. Council has word it causing misunderstanding "environmental charge x2" I do have 2 bins - a recycle & a garbage bin. if they have word it as garbage bin x2. I would have question it.

      I will move on when I get a fair hearing. I'm here for helpful advice, if you are here to cause upset to make yourself better…..you feel better now?

      • JimmyF on 19/11/2020 - 21:25

        You didn't understood what I have written

        No I did

        I moved in 5 years ago there was no old bin

        At some point before you moved in the the council supplied a 2nd bin to the address and started charging.

        So what happened to the bin? How does the council know you haven't been using a 2nd bin for all these years?

        Council has word it causing misunderstanding "environmental charge x2"

        Pretty clearly states what "environmental charge" is here, aka rubbish collection

        https://www.brimbank.vic.gov.au/your-rates-rate-capping-and-…

        I will move on when I get a fair hearing

        You did, the council listened to your issue, they said they are not going to refund 5 year old charges because you just noticed NOW.

        They corrected the issue for the current cycle, its time to move on.

        I'm here for helpful advice, if you are here to cause upset to make yourself better…..you feel better now?

        No you're here wanting people to agree with you.

        Would you go to Coles and demand a refund for a overcharged amount that happened 5 years ago?

        The council sends you a bill every year, you have 60 days to review it, question it. You didn't.

        • mountford on 19/11/2020 - 21:47
          -1

          No, I will never go to Coles to request for a refund for goods bought 5 years ago. Which is different for being charged for a service I never had or requested.

      • chunfat on 21/11/2020 - 16:00

        Hi,

        I hope that after reading the comment I place on here helps you to calm down and glad that you found the problem and corrected it.
        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/582374#comment-9653764

        I understand how frustrating it is to be ripped off, especially by the Brimbank Council. But they have a 1y limited liability for any errors. If only they didn't charge you anything for 5y, that way, you would had saved 4y of $1414.89 p.a.

        I believe your outcome settlement to correct the invoice from 20/21 billing is final, and you can't overrule it any further.

  • Baysew on 19/11/2020 - 19:10

    You can't fight City Hall.

  • Daff on 19/11/2020 - 19:20
    -4

    If it were me I'd calculate the difference, and subtract that from the rates. Send them your maths and explain what you're going to do. Put the onus back on them.

    • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 19:35
      +8

      Lol. You'll be hit with a late payment penalty.

      • mountford on 19/11/2020 - 21:03
        +1

        That's exactly what I was thinking, thus I ask if I should wait for them to issue and update invoice and she said " no pay first, we will credit…."

        • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 22:10
          +1

          They only credited the 20/21 for the bin…

          … and they did credit for the reduced service as per requested.

          for the bin they overcharged.

          Not for the bin they overcharged. For the bin that you will no longer be entitled to because you have requested a reduction in the service.

  • oscargamer on 19/11/2020 - 19:47
    +6

    Only way to go is write a letter explaining your reasoning, asking for the reduction. If that fails, take it to the ombudsman.

    • mountford on 19/11/2020 - 21:08
      +1

      Thank you! That's advice I need. I have only heard of consumers affairs but when I google their website earlier I didn't think my situation falls in their category. I shall look up ombudsman. I have written to them by email explaining the 2nd time in my 3rd email and that was their response that I posted.

    • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 21:10
      +1

      Ombudsman cannot do anything here.

      Ombudsman only has any power when protocol is being treated with impunity.

      Eg. If OP has submitted a request to reduce the number of bins but is still being billed.

      • mountford on 19/11/2020 - 21:16
        +2

        How do I submit a request to reduce bin when I have only ONE garbage bin when I bought and move in to this place and have never requested extra bin. I decide to reduce size of bin this year that is when I found about the overcharge. Its drastic reduction if I really have 2 bigger bins and able to reduce to 1 half the size.

        • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 21:27
          +2

          As mentioned above, the council just reissues the arrangement of the previous owner, except with your name on it.

          They did not overcharge. If you are paying more for the same service as your neighbour, then you are being overcharged. You are paying for a bigger service.

          The issue is that you didn't read your statement. You were given the opportunity, just as you are exercising now, to reduce the service.

          When you take over a property, you take over the liabilities, council rates being one of them. It is a simple case of not checking. You've learnt a relatively cheap lesson.

          How do I submit a request to reduce bin when I have only ONE garbage bin

          You seem to have successfully done it as you yourself have mentioned above.

          • mountford on 19/11/2020 - 21:36
            +2

            @[Deactivated]: That is so wrong isn't it? if council just assume arrangement of previous owner for present owner. Default should be one bin per household until further request. So maybe I have a case to seek ombudsman help?

            • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 21:45
              +1

              @mountford:

              That is so wrong isn't it?

              That's your emotions talking.

              if council just assume arrangement of previous owner for present owner.

              The council doesn't know the change in needs. They can't possibly know that.

              You on the other hand were given a statement with full disclosure. You could have known you were being provided with redundant service.

              So maybe I have a case to seek ombudsman help?

              Go for it as they are another lot that are ineffectual at their role.

              Seriously think about what kind of help you are asking for?

              You want your money back. You can't prove you have not been receiving a service. You are not being billed for a service you have cancelled. You are not receiving unsolicited service. In fact, when you purchase real estate, part of due diligence (and from memory part of the S22) is the council rates.

              Again, I don't have the highest esteem of councils and ombudsmen but what you are intending to do is waste the time of professional time wasters.

              • kiitos on 21/11/2020 - 11:16
                +1

                @[Deactivated]:

                The council doesn't know the change in needs. They can't possibly know that.

                But council do know when the ratepayer for a property changes, and can definitely inform them of the setup that's currently in place, and give the new owners an opportunity to vary it, especially when the current arrangement is not the general norm.

                The wording of the charges on the rates notice sound weasely.

            • JimmyF on 19/11/2020 - 21:48

              @mountford:

              Default should be one bin per household until further request.

              The default is what the previous owner had. Just like if you sell your house today, the new owner will get your single small bin you have selected. They can then opt to upsize, add extra bins etc.

              You took over the house, the previous owner selected two bins. Now what happened to the '2nd' bin, that is a good question. They most likely took it or one of the places around you got a extra 'free' bin!

            • Settero on 19/11/2020 - 22:32

              @mountford: im pretty sure they have different size bins as well don't they ? ( at least some councils )
              so setting a "Default" is not ideal.

              in regards to your situation I'm in agreement with tshow,

              you are not entitled to a refund . if you push you may get a goodwill gesture but that's if you become more of a inconvenience than its worth to them, and they are paid to be inconvenienced.

              • mountford on 22/11/2020 - 16:13

                @Settero: There's 140 litre ($389.11) and 80L ($240.49) garbage bin. I had a 140L and downsize in Sep. I was charged $778.22 on 20/21 notice and was credited $389.11 because there was no record of me having or requested a 2nd bin on ownership.

          • mountford on 19/11/2020 - 22:16
            +1

            @[Deactivated]: from this posting I have learned from Tshow about reissues arrangement of previous owner to new owner (Thank you). There is a possibility that previous owner had 2 bins which I had no idea. I paid someone to do the conveyancing, wasn't informed. Didn't occur to me that a couple (previous owner) living in this property would have/need 2 garbage bin.

            [You seem to have successfully done it as you yourself have mentioned above.] What I mean is, if I am only aware I have one garbage bin why would I submit request to reduce bin? I would end up with no bins.

            • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 22:22
              +1

              @mountford:

              What I mean is, if I am only aware I have one garbage bin why would I submit request to reduce bin? I would end up with no bins.

              The number of bins in existence isn't bound to the contract. Ie. If the statement states 3 bins, more bins do not appear. Similarly, if a bin has been stolen, your statement doesn't reduce.

              Moreover, you have applied the logic that if you reduce the bin you'd have no bins. If the council did so, you'd also have no bins. You seem to justify your assumption yet vilify another's.

              Whichever way you look at it, you have disclosure of the number of bins you are billed for, and you know how many bins are physically present. The council doesn't know how many bins you have stored.

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 20/11/2020 - 19:15

              @mountford:

              from this posting I have learned from Tshow about reissues arrangement of previous owner to new owner (Thank you). There is a possibility that previous owner had 2 bins which I had no idea. I paid someone to do the conveyancing, wasn't informed. Didn't occur to me that a couple (previous owner) living in this property would have/need 2 garbage bin.

              Next time read the vendor's statement more carefully. Or pay someone to read it more carefully for you.

              Rates notice is a common inclusion. I bet you $5000 if it was included in the vendor's statement it would say "environmental charge x2 ". If it wasn't disclosed in the vendor's statement then you used a crappy conveyancer.

  • Seraphin7 on 19/11/2020 - 21:38
    +1

    You've placed yourself somewhere more dangerous than even the hottest warzone … that place between a local council and its revenue.

    Your money will not be coming out alive. Hopefully you will.

    • mountford on 19/11/2020 - 21:53
      -4

      I HATE being scammed as much as I HATE to see others (especially the elderly) being scammed. Technology makes it easier for scammers unfortunately. And I am one not good with tech.

  • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 22:04
    +1

    Woo a local boi!

    Brimbank council has improved HEAPS compared to what it used to be, let it go!

  • Davo1111 on 19/11/2020 - 22:15

    they provided a service, which you didnt take advantage of. tbh i dont think you have a leg to stand on.

  • screensaver on 19/11/2020 - 22:41

    The State Government has a Local Government Minister, try them

  • screensaver on 19/11/2020 - 22:45
    -1

    sounds like their rates notice is designed to deceive, false and misleading. Environmental chatge x 2 is not specific enough. They are trying to deceive people. These are illegal tactics (ACCC)

    • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 22:50

      Hmm…

      You are concerned that environment charge isn't specific enough but you don't question why you are paying for two?

      And you'd pay for two for five years before calling it deception?

      "This doesn't look right… but I guess I'll take two. Still, it doesn't feel right… Hmm…"

      Continues "hmmming" for five years…

      "I've been deceived!!"

      • mountford on 19/11/2020 - 23:00
        +1

        I am very sure a lot of householders did not know what environmental charge refers to. Friends that I have mention these started checking their rate notice. Mine has x2 . As I have explained above, if it had worded as 'garbage bin x2' I would have taken notice. I have 2 bins in my property - a recycle & a garbage bin and I thought x2 environmental charges on the rate notice refers to that! If I knew what environmental charge was from the beginning you I definitely would have contacted them to inform them of the error.

        • [Deactivated] on 19/11/2020 - 23:04

          Google - "environmental charge council".

          It's hard to be ignorant.

          Also, it is generally a bad idea to agree to charges you have no idea about, much less multiples of it, much less for five years straight.

          • screensaver on 20/11/2020 - 02:00

            @[Deactivated]: one would tend to trust that the council knew what it was doing and not question it

            • Seraphin7 on 20/11/2020 - 08:58

              @screensaver: Yeah, nah. A council would be just about the last outfit that I would trust to know what it's doing.

              Just above short course opreators.

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 20/11/2020 - 19:17

              @screensaver: Rule 1: Don't trust anyone you regularly have to pay substantial sums of money to.

  • screensaver on 20/11/2020 - 02:08

    see if you can find more people it happened to and make a class action. Contact the rate payers association

  • OzHunterNSW on 20/11/2020 - 12:10

    Document all…. take your case to Tribunal.

    • Davo1111 on 20/11/2020 - 13:24

      dont forget to pay your $75 tribunal fee. (or whatever it is)

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 20/11/2020 - 19:17
        +1

        …then lose the tribunal fee and half a days pay.

        • [Deactivated] on 21/11/2020 - 08:17
          -1

          Council's evidence - "we can demonstrate the home owner of said address making a written request for additional bins and consenting to the increase in charges, the charges being disclosed on the statement for that year and every other year moving forward, no further requests have been made until 2010 to reduce the service at which time it was reduced. The rates were adjusted as soon as the request for a reduction in service was made.

          OP's evidence - "I didn't know. I want my money back."

  • chunfat on 21/11/2020 - 16:04
    -1

    Hi,

    I hope that after reading the comment I place on here helps you to calm down and glad that you found the problem and corrected it.
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/582374#comment-9653764

    I understand how frustrating it is to be ripped off, especially by the Brimbank Council. But they have a 1y limited liability for any errors. If only they didn't charge you anything for 5y, that way, you would had saved 4y of $1414.89 p.a.

    I believe your outcome settlement to correct the invoice from 20/21 billing is final, and you can't overrule it any further.

  • screensaver on 22/11/2020 - 11:20
    +1

    Oz Bargainers seem to love it when others lose money. I say fight this crooked council and dont roll over. I recall a similar story being on a Current Affair.

  • Porker on 23/11/2020 - 16:51

    There may be legislation which states that invoice/rates corrections by the residents must occur within a certain time period after the issuing of the notice. The same exists for the State Government and certain types of invoices - I'd suspect that there exists the same for Local Government.

  • screensaver on 23/11/2020 - 17:02

    Theres also consumer protection which states that charges may not be hidden

  • realfancyman on 24/11/2020 - 00:54

    Sounds like it's definitely something they should refund but technically the law is on their side. Maybe contact your local MP's office and see if they can talk to the council.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join