Buyer Opens PayPal SNAD Dispute after over 2 Months

Lsexymrdaniel on 24/11/2020 - 06:52
Last edited 24/11/2020 - 06:53

This is probably more to vent than look for a solution, so forgive me, I doubt there really is one at this point.

I sold a PS4 (with games etc.) early September, good condition, took lots of photos, even took it to an electronics store to get checked over and cleaned. There was an issue with the disk player on rare occasion and made sure it was the first thing on the listing. Item sold for $390, which is a lot more than I was hoping for, but I guess when people are in lockdown, these things happen.

As I was wiping it, I noticed a slight drift in one of the sticks I hadn't noticed. Contacted the buyer and asked if they wanted to cancel, or me just buy a new one and add it in. They agreed with the latter, which I didn't mind as I received more than I expected. All goes well and I don't hear anything from the buyer at all until about 2 weeks ago.

They raised a case on eBay saying they wanted their money back as it was no longer powering on. It had been over 2 months (12/11/20), so I asked for proof of it not working, and for them to take it to a repair store to get it checked and I'll work something out with them to help pay for the repair. I heard no response for 3 days so I denied the case.

The next day I get send a Item Significantly Not as Described case email. The buyer's grammer was awful and contained the phrase "i msg the sell and he wont give me refund for it broken". They basically that it was "working fine up until last week" and it had broken and they now want their money and to send their broken PS4 back to me.

I didn't think much of it, as it had been over two months, I had a report from the store saying that the device was functional and that the seller had confirmed in an email it was working when they received it, and for at least 8 weeks during which time they owned it.

This morning I got an email saying they sided with the buyer and it was going to be returned to me. WTF. I would be able to slightly understand if they pulled some lawyer out of their ass, spread out some case files and shit then went to town, but to win that with some 3 sentances (if you could call them sentances) of broken ass grammer? While the date of their initial request also coincidentally matches the release date of the PS5? With no proof of it not working? No effort to provide me with a repair fee?

Even better, PayPal mentions that the item must be returned in the condition I sent it. How can it be? They confirmed it worked and it's being returned broken? Sure I'll miss that $390, but even that couldn't replace all the brain cells I've lost through all this.

Thanks for reading,
Have a better day than me c:

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Comments

  • EightImmortals on 24/11/2020 - 07:11
    +4

    Heard a few stories like this now. I guess next time use gumtree and do a face to face cash transaction.

  • Quantumcat on 24/11/2020 - 07:17
    +2

    Remove your phone number from PayPal and ebay, and make sure you do NOT have a PayPal account set up for automatic payment of eBay fees. Just ignore the debt for long enough and it will go away eventually. You might get some emails from debt collectors but you can ignore them. It means you can't sell on ebay anymore but that's no loss. Same thing happened to me.

    • sexymrdaniel on 24/11/2020 - 07:22
      +1

      Can this show up on some kind of financial history/credit history though? Don’t get me wrong, I would like to win this case out of principal and get my money back, but I’d also rather not have a $390 debt prevent me from getting a home loan, if it does affect my history.

      • Quantumcat on 24/11/2020 - 08:21
        +2

        No, they can't prove it is you, and if they do manage to, then they can't prove you owe the money - it was your word against the buyer's. It isn't like you signed a phone or electricity contract and then failed to pay. It has been like 4 years for me and nothing happened after maybe two emails.

        Whoever negged me should come out and say what their experience was that means they think this won't happen - right of course they have no idea. I have actual experience of this and know what happens.

        • burningrage on 24/11/2020 - 09:02
          +1

          Neutralized the neg.

      • Quantumcat on 24/11/2020 - 09:29

        Just to clarify, is this an ebay case or a PayPal one?

        If it is an ebay case my advice applies, if a PayPal one they might be more likely to just take the money and make you fight to get it back (if it is an ebay case they don't really care as it isn't their money). In this case they probably won't allow you to take your bank account details off your PayPal account, so maybe talk to your bank and ask them to disallow PayPal from debiting your account.

        If it is a PayPal case and they do debit money from your account before you can get the bank to not allow them, FSO will be the next avenue.

        • sexymrdaniel on 24/11/2020 - 20:20

          This is a PayPal dispute, as the eBay one was ruled in my favour. They have already taken the money of my PayPal account and left a negative balance, but I won't put any money in there just yet. I won't be able to use PayPal while it's negative, but after this I'm just use the card and rely on my bank for any support issues, they seem way more helpful and understanding.

          I'll see how this promise of the "buyer protection" from the PayPal rep comes through due to it not being returned in the condition it was received. Although, the fact that this is a SNAD case means this won't apply according to the website.

          Otherwise I'll check out the FSO and see how that goes. I'd rather it not get to that point though.

          • Quantumcat on 24/11/2020 - 20:36

            @sexymrdaniel: Ok you should be alright. Just inform your bank not to allow anything debited by PayPal. You might not be able to use your account for a few months.

  • brendanm on 24/11/2020 - 07:18
    +13

    Contact financial services ombudsman. PayPal will give you your money back, guaranteed. They are the scum of the earth.

    • sexymrdaniel on 24/11/2020 - 07:23

      Although it may seem futile to me, I’ll probably call PayPal this morning and give it a shot. Cheers.

      • brendanm on 24/11/2020 - 07:27
        +6

        Not PayPal, the financial services ombudsman. You do have to call PayPal first, but they won't do anything. The ombudsman will though. in my experience, they give PayPal a month or so to sort it, and they leave it right to the very end before giving your money back.

        • sexymrdaniel on 24/11/2020 - 07:48

          Ahh, I see. Sounds good, I’ll see how it goes with PayPal this morning, then I’ll give the ombudsman a call afterwards. Appreciate the help.

          • brendanm on 24/11/2020 - 08:33
            +7

            @sexymrdaniel: All good, I hate to see people screwed over by PayPal's extremely dodgy practices.

    • Quantumcat on 24/11/2020 - 08:22

      PayPal have nothing to do with it, they aren't the ones that decided to refund the buyer. That's eBay. FSO will get you nowhere.

      • brendanm on 24/11/2020 - 08:32
        +1

        Even better, PayPal mentions that the item must be returned in the condition I sent it.

        Also, stated PayPal in title.

        • Quantumcat on 24/11/2020 - 09:26

          Oh yeah, I got mixed up. Sounds like the buyer first tried an ebay case then is now going for a PayPal case?

    • randomusername2017 on 25/11/2020 - 00:40

      PayPal will give you your money back, guaranteed*.

      *Underwritten by brendanm

      • brendanm on 25/11/2020 - 07:05

        I'm that confident, I would actually do that.

  • Ocker on 24/11/2020 - 07:50
    +1

    Pretty sure you will find that as the transaction was through eBay then they are the party that will need to resolve your complaint. PayPal are only the financial agent and they take their instructions from eBay

    • brad1-8tsi on 24/11/2020 - 11:14

      Incorrect.

      I've raised disputes with eBay that were denied and then gone to PayPal and got a refund.

      For those wondering, it was because an item wasn't delivered as agreed. It was supposed to be sent via AusPost and the vendor sent it with a courier that did not attempt delivery and left it at a Service Station 3km from home. That would have been OK but they failed to notify me that it was at the service station and sent it back to the vendor after 2 weeks. During this time I'd contacted the vendor twice asking where the package was and they failed to reply.

  • Untameable on 24/11/2020 - 09:30
    +4

    I bought a jigsaw puzzle from a store advertising on Facebook and paid with PayPal. Then I found the store was selling fake goods (the art wasn’t theirs, it’s all just a scam) and tried to cancel my order which was in their terms of service. They refused and shipped it weeks later so I disputed with PayPal.

    This tiny smashed box arrived with low quality jigsaw pieces and no proper jigsaw box like the product picture. I sent PayPal all the pictures.

    This took over 3 months to reach a conclusion and somehow, despite the evidence of fraud (from the artist who created the original jigsaw!) PayPal sided with them. I hate PayPal. There’s no further dispute resolution process after they close a case. It felt hopeless.

    I ended up buying a bunch of jigsaws from the artist direct and they arrived exactly as described, nice boxes, professionally printed, and so on. And now whenever I see a Facebook ad for a jigsaw I leave comments that they’re fake. The company changes name every few months.

    So PayPal doesn’t always side with the buyer unlike what you’ll hear. Buyers get screwed too.

    • Quantumcat on 24/11/2020 - 12:12

      I think they're more likely to side with companies that give them lots of business. If you're just selling your own odds and ends from time to time you have a decent chance of getting screwed by them

  • MoshPitShaq on 24/11/2020 - 09:59
    +2

    This is why I stopped using eBay. You're not the first and you won't be the last to cop their terrible dispute resolution processes. FB marketplace or gumtree cash in hand from now on.

  • Seraphin7 on 24/11/2020 - 10:25
    +3

    I would be able to slightly understand if they pulled some lawyer out of their ass, spread out some case files and shit then went to town, but to win that with some 3 sentances (if you could call them sentances) of broken ass grammer?

    Ironic.

  • ddhar on 24/11/2020 - 11:12

    Try calling eBay and explaining the situation to them (assuming still possible to change things after they handed down that judgement).

    I had similar experience back in June. Sold a broken item (clearly marked not working/for repairs). Buyer opened SNAD claim against me after two months and without even consulting me. When asked for a reason, they told me they could not fix it and wanted to return it. Luckily the eBay rep told me that the 'for repairs' label and the fact buyer picked up the item shielded me from this so-called buyer's protection scam.

  • pharkurnell on 24/11/2020 - 12:52
    +1

    During around Feb/March/April was selling out an old collection of stuff, most went to USA…
    Anyway sold 480 items, 1 left neutral feedback for slow shipping - even though it said in the ad that things were slow from AU to USA due to no flights and had been taking up to 2mths but everything was getting through… It was even in Ebay messages, and emails to and from the buyer..

    Everything had AU Post Tracking (AU Post tracking is the worst on earth, hangover from 1970's).

    One other tosser even demanded a refund as it hadnt showed up yet.. When I again gave him his tracking info he agreed things were slow… I even showed him tracking on other buyers items (removing name/address but leaving state and country) showing they had taken 4-8 weeks - again which was mentioned in the ad.

    End of couple of weeks he put in a dispute for the ~$500, I put in the tracking info in the dispute, copies of chats etc…
    Ebay sided with him, me down 500.. Week later tracking showed it was delivered - I asked him for payment, never got a reply… Cant even leave the arsehole neg feedback.

    IM going to start trying this on things I buy on ebay… great way to get freebys.

    • ddhar on 24/11/2020 - 20:14
      +1

      This is why I loathe selling on eBay now. I used to sell stuff with values above $1,000. Now, selling anything for less than 300 gives me anxiety.

      • pharkurnell on 25/11/2020 - 10:16

        Yep…Ebay has got too big for its own good.

  • sexymrdaniel on 24/11/2020 - 12:53

    Well, called through to PayPal to see what they have to say. Was told that when the buyer was asked for more information, they said that one of the controllers, the one that had the drifting problem - which I included a replacement in the package and was an extra in case they could fix it, was broken since they received it.

    I asked about the the issue concerning not being able to resell it now that the console itself is apparently broken, which was confirmed working for at least 2 months that the buyer had it. The rep said that if the item was returned in a different condition than I sent it, I would be covered under the buyer protection. Somewhat satisfied with that, I hung up and then decided to check their website. According to that, buyer protection does not cover SNAD disputes; so I'm guessing there's a fat chance of that buyer's protection.

    • ddhar on 24/11/2020 - 20:10

      Have you spoken to an ebay rep?

      • sexymrdaniel on 24/11/2020 - 20:13

        I called eBay first, but they said it was not up to them as they had already automatically ruled in my favour as it had been over 30 days since the item had arrived so they were in no way entitled to a refund. eBay then told me to contact PayPal directly as the dispute was through them. Not exactly helpful, but I expected as much.

        • ddhar on 24/11/2020 - 20:37

          Yes, this is ridiculous. Ebay can be understanding but no such luck with Paypal. Someone mentioned the financial ombudsman above and this is what I would suggest you do also.

  • 87percent on 24/11/2020 - 16:53

    (profanity) ridiculous

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