Leaving My Job before We Have to Go into Office

John678 on 17/12/2020 - 18:23

I’ve had a really difficult year:

  • mother died of cancer. She was early 60s
  • partner of 4 years broke up with me

To cut a long story short, my work gave me a written warning because of something I posted on my social media account they thought was disrespectful.
I had to engage a lawyer to fight for me, it was ugly.
I took weeks off following the warning due to stress.

I’ve checked out and cannot stand the company. I do the bare minimum. I avoid meetings.

I’ve managed to get by because of WFH but with a return to the office soon, the thought of being face to face with the people that dragged me through a kangaroo court for something non work related, gives me anxiety.

Everything is awkward, I’m angry and I’m concerned going back in will screw my fragile state. The relationship with managers is non existent. They are nit picking at everything I do and I feel a performance plan is on the horizon.

I don’t want to go back and face them. Is this a scenario where quitting is ok?

Education & Work

Comments

    • Cheaplikethebird on 20/12/2020 - 12:02

      This is still a thing - "If you quit your job, Centrelink may decide you are ‘voluntarily unemployed’ and you may have to wait eight weeks before you get paid."

  • achew on 20/12/2020 - 11:50

    @John678

    I would strongly suggest you consider the content of the things you want to post before you log onto social media:
    1. Does it reflect poorly?
    2. Is it politically charged?
    3. Is it dirty laundry?

    If any are 'yes' and you post those comments. You're gonna have a Bad Day.

    Commiserations for your loss, 60yrs.. I hope she was not in pain. But 4yrs on the relationship - don't sweat it!

  • pipe on 20/12/2020 - 14:34

    If you were under stress, going through a lawyer was a really stupid decision. Did your lawyer advise you how the process will mess you up emotionally and burn your current and future bridges? Especially when you hadn't even lost your job at that point?

  • matt-ozb on 20/12/2020 - 16:34

    Why is calling someone a 'dog' derogatory?

    I consider it a compliment.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/12/2020 - 16:53
    -4

    You're an idiot. You should have realized it was stupid of you to post something disrespectful about your employer, esp on social media.

    • matt-ozb on 20/12/2020 - 17:04

      it didn't have anything to do with his employer

      • [Deactivated] on 20/12/2020 - 17:07
        -2

        It does imply he posted something disrespectful about his employer. I guess this explains why his employer wasn't happy and he was going to pay the price.

        Maybe the OP should be forthright about what he posted and about who since he's seeking advice here

        • airtime on 20/12/2020 - 19:36
          +2

          The OP was very clear the social media post had nothing to do with their employer. Nothing is implied anywhere to indicate otherwise. The OP called someone who 'dobbed' in a neighbour for too many guests during covid lockdown a 'dog'. That is it. Please read before posting.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/12/2020 - 18:20
    +2

    All companies have social media policies, honestly you should know better. Literally every girl with a OnlyFans account can be fired instantly if their employed elsewhere.

    I'd been told off for commenting on a Facebook post which multiple people spoke negative about senior management. I wrote there could be improvements!!! I just got told to watch what I write, 1 person got fired instantly and another was on a black list. The first mistake she made, she was out the door.

    Professional footballers can't even hang out with who they want anymore, so it's part of employment. Sorry, but plenty of people should know this by now.

    Nothing goes unpunished on social media, even if you're self employed.

    Hope you're ok, I suggest changing jobs as in your situation it doesn't look like things can change.

    Good luck!

  • gekiyasu on 20/12/2020 - 18:54
    +1

    Is this a scenario where quitting is ok?

    Quitting is always ok.

  • hopper on 20/12/2020 - 19:29

    Find a new job and new partner. Remember when one door closes other opens.

    • nightfever on 21/12/2020 - 09:00

      I think the OP was hoping to get some sorta paid out. According to the law suit OPs has posted in one of the replies - asked for 3 months pay to leave but was rejected by the employer.

      Honestly sometimes if you have had enough, just leave. Why wanting a pay out? If the company is that bad, treating OP so unfairly, what is there to hold on to? :/

  • zilver on 20/12/2020 - 23:11

    Personally I really think the employer has a legitimate case to be perturbed by what he's said. It's not even about the social media aspect, to me its the implications what he said and thought about shows about his work characteristics. This is someone who obviously does not think Covid lockdowns are legitimate and that we shouldn't report people who break the rules. Do you want someone working for you who thinks its okay to break the rules and you shouldn't tell on those who do?

    • grasstown on 21/12/2020 - 00:00
      -6

      Why shouldn’t there be discussion about rules???? Where has the discussion been about how to deal with covid. There has been no discussion. Just mocking of the opposite view.

      Covid lockdowns are not legitimate, they did not work in the UK. They are a dumb option. Social distancing, tracing are smarter options that work.

      he just called someone who is by definition a dog, a dog

      • zilver on 21/12/2020 - 04:38

        How vapid…

        • grasstown on 21/12/2020 - 08:16
          -2

          You asked if we really want someone working for us who thinks its okay to break the rules and thinks we shouldn't tell on those who do.

          I raise points about rules and dogs and you say “How vapid”?

          • zilver on 21/12/2020 - 12:05

            @grasstown: Great recap

            • grasstown on 21/12/2020 - 12:37
              -1

              @zilver: Your responses are typical. You can’t even engage in discussion

              • zilver on 21/12/2020 - 13:48
                +3

                @grasstown: More like I don't want to engage in discussion with you

                • grasstown on 21/12/2020 - 14:19
                  -1

                  @zilver: Fair enough. But I post comments so all hear what I have to say.

      • dufflover on 21/12/2020 - 08:01
        +1

        Careful, that post could get you fired :P

    • Cheaplikethebird on 21/12/2020 - 13:14
      +2

      You can't fire someone based on their political beliefs or because of an assessment you've made on their character. I thought that was obvious?

      • zilver on 24/12/2020 - 10:00

        Why can't you fire someone because of an assesment you've made on their character?

        • Cheaplikethebird on 24/12/2020 - 10:56
          +1

          You can only fire someone due to poor performance or conduct and you need evidence, usually multiple incidents with warnings. Otherwise they can be made redundant but you need to be able to prove that the role ceased to exist (i.e. cant hire another person to do the same thing with a different title).

          What would be the point of having unfair dismissal laws if employers could just say "yeah nah didn't like the guy"?

          Regarding whether the comments he made could be used as evidence of poor conduct…

          "Nonetheless, it appears that in order to terminate someone’s employment on the basis of social media comments, the comments must identify either the company or specific staff members. Comments that are vague or non-descript have been held to be insufficient grounds for dismissal." - https://www.employmentlawonline.com.au/can-i-be-fired-for-co…

          • [Deactivated] on 24/12/2020 - 11:08

            @Cheaplikethebird: "You can only fire someone due to poor performance or conduct and you need evidence, usually multiple incidents with warnings. Otherwise they can be made redundant but you need to be able to prove that the role ceased to exist (i.e. cant hire another person to do the same thing with a different title)."

            Agree completely.

          • zilver on 24/12/2020 - 12:18

            @Cheaplikethebird: I would describe the character as insubordinate, having problems with authority, and difficult. They have shown that they do not respect the rules and processes and have raised real and legitimate concerns about whether or not the employee would abide by coronavirus related safety rules. In fact, I feel like this would easily come under FWC decisions on "unwritten rules" such as Tara Davies case and Glen Chalons case. Furthermore, THERE are official regulations about coronavirus rules that the person is explicitly disagreeing with in his comment. And even further more he has labelled someone who follows the rules a "dog" which is an insulting and offensive term. It shows the employee is unlikely to report rule breaking by other employees. All of these things would easily be clause-bound in almost every company that has a standardised employee policy… I don't want someone at my business who is unlikely to follow coronavirus safety proceedures, and who is willing to lie and hide other peoples rule breaking. It extends beyond coronavirus and shows a clear and obvious disrespect for authority. It's not even about what is said at that stage. Please stop simplifying and misrepresenting my argument. 1. I never said it is about "yeah nah didn't like the guy". 2. I did not say he should be fired, I only said that you CAN fire someone based on an assesment you have made on their character. Which you can. 3. The employee in question was not fired, in fact all he was given is a written warning. 4. I only ever said that the employer has a right to be perturbed and consider whether or not the person should be working for them. Posting about this on Ozbargain and showing no remorse and adding justification details that imply the employee cannot handle their emotions, etc. and are "checked out", think that they have done nothing wrong at all and they were "dragged over the coals" despite the issue being them disagreeing with being given a warning, and they CHOSE to hire a laywer. They have never properly realised the problem, they have not made any adjustment and have become more strong in their opinion and feeling that they did the right thing and have been vilified. They have continued to describe the business and its employees in a disrespectful and disreputational language and light… all of these things and more in some comments that would probably be justifiable basis alone … won't help the case. Usually people are meant to actually intern the warning and change their ways in these kind of situations.

            These kind of situations are repeatedly very specifically notioned by the FWC as weighted based on contextual evidence, record of service, remorse (which the employee has shown none of and clearly still believes he is right), a fundamental basis on rumour or gossip, over-assertions made by the company in the dismissal process, and a lack of pursued alternatives by the company in the dismissal process (which the company actually did correctly pursue). They have repeatedly upheld firings based on assessments of character and personality as there are no direct protections for that as there is for "political opinions". Note that I clearly did not mention your first topic of political opinions, because it is protected. Character/personality is NOT protected under 772, and you CAN be fired for it. The same website you linked has a whole section about how you CAN be fired for your personality and character.

            And I don't even think this is about personality or character.

            To simplify, I will remove word fired:

            1. You can be disciplined over a matter like this based on an incompatiability between the employee's approach to work and the company specific employee policy, if the employee policy is correctly written and updated.
            2. You can be disciplined over a matter like this based on an incompatiability between the employee's approach to work and the non-specific employee policy. FWC has shown incredible leniancy towards businesses in the coronavirus period and in previous "crises" or "unexpected events" situations before, and there are CLEAR rules that have been set and do not need to be individually listed in employee policies.
            3. You can discipline an employee based on character / personality.

            Furthermore, your post is seriously riddled with falsehoods. It is NOT true that you can "ONLY" fire someone due to poor performance or conduct. It is also NOT true that you HAVE to prove that the role ceased to exist.

            A proper HR rep / law adjunct would eat this case alive and its so simple to write the language to justify it that they could probably get it past the FWC delays on a summary basis too! A intrepidt adjunct might even go for a full dismissal based on the idea that you could have issues trusting the employee in the future because they have specifically made implications they would lie or mislead about this matter, have not shown remorse or admission of fault, fought the process, have shown an intention to no longer try, and are continuing to post this kind of thing on the internet. But who knows? Why would they bother if they can just do it the easy way?

            Your obvious support for his political views does not change the facts of the matter. Meanwhile, I don't care about it either way..

            • [Deactivated] on 24/12/2020 - 12:41
              +1

              @zilver: "Furthermore, your post is seriously riddled with falsehoods. It is NOT true that you can "ONLY" fire someone due to poor performance or conduct. It is also NOT true that you HAVE to prove that the role ceased to exist."

              I disagree. Frrom my experience working at different universities, you can only sack someone due to poor performance or serious misconduct. Before an employee is sacked, the employer must prove the employee has been given ample professional development opportunities. Also, a role can only be made redundant if the work no longer exists. If the work is still there the employer can't sack the employee and replace with someone else unless that employee is sacked on grounds of poor performance or serious misconduct

              • zilver on 24/12/2020 - 12:47

                @[Deactivated]: "From my experience" as anecdotal evidence is functionally useless and often misleading. By the way, Universities are generally covered by a unique award with some special redundency provisions. See Harrison vs Queensland University of Technology, or Lambeth vs Western Sydney University. Also, even tho it doesn't matter, he said "role", I said "role", you said "work"

            • Cheaplikethebird on 24/12/2020 - 13:24
              -1

              @zilver: Shit, thanks for the wall of text, I might take the effort to respond after xmas but for now just wanted to say I'm actually pro-masker/lockdown, I was wearing a mask in March before they were even recommended. It seems I'm actually one of the few people in this thread able to remove my political beliefs from my judgement here.

  • sgtdanny69148 on 21/12/2020 - 03:24
    -5

    Go postal. Sometimes people need to learn the hard way.

  • drfuzzy on 21/12/2020 - 11:56
    +1

    Step 1 - post on social media
    Step 2 - hire a lawyer
    Step 3 - post on Ozbargain forum

    ????

  • pformag on 21/12/2020 - 13:44

    Mate, eat and drink, and don't stress about work. Life is to short. If you are not happy working, then you are in the wrong job.

  • Earl of Lemongrab on 21/12/2020 - 13:46

    Workers' Compensation stress leave

  • iknowtj on 21/12/2020 - 13:53

    All the best in your search for a new role - hopefully it's a good start to 2021.

  • Amour on 21/12/2020 - 15:39
    +2

    Sorry you’ve had a crappy year. Your employer being an asshat hasn’t helped.

    It seems you are on their radar, but it’s strange they didn’t accept your offer to take three months pay and exit, especially if you are under the high income threshold. Going to show cause for presumably a first warning (?) for the social media post you described is unreasonable.

    I’m happy to work through your options via direct message. Sometimes talking it through helps make the answer clearer and I have experience that might help. The offer is there if you want to reach out.

    I hope 2021 is a better year for you.

  • Dack Smith on 21/12/2020 - 16:34

    Just quit

    Not sure why you are still holding on if it sucks

    Storm in a teacup

    Seriously?

  • sauce2k on 21/12/2020 - 17:34
    +1

    Feel sorry for you OP. Hopefully you can recover from all these mess.

    Let this be a lesson to everyone ( a good reminder to myself as well) - social media platforms in which you have registered with your real name are literally the worst place to voice your opinion on given nowadays everyone is online. We all have opinions and shit to say but either take it to reddit or somewhere you can hide your identity.

    Screw your employer man.

  • PAPower on 21/12/2020 - 17:56

    I don't know what you posted on social media but to me it's absolutely irrelevant and just a distraction to your employment. Did you lose your case?

  • Eeples on 21/12/2020 - 23:08

    I always thought if ones job was iffy then one should never be late to a meeting.

    But OP said he avoids meetings…. it seems the OP is giving them a reason (to let the OP go).

    OP, do you think you have some sort of immunity now because you litigated before?
    (You may well have).

    • John678 on 23/12/2020 - 23:48

      My lawyer made it clear if they fire me were off to fair work.

      • dizzle on 24/12/2020 - 08:56

        That won't help if it's a performance based firing - ie not turning up to meetings

  • brad1-8tsi on 22/12/2020 - 00:50
    +1

    You don't need any reason to quit.

    All your written resignation has to say is:

    "I tender my resignation. As per my award/contract/EBA notice period my final date of employment will be dd/mm/yyyy."

    I'm not sure what the current rules are but you may be better off getting sacked. Getting sacked used to give you quicker access to centrelink benefits.

    I can fully understand how you feel. I'm dreading going back to the office. I haven't missed the insidious bullying and lack of action when you report it.

  • nvde on 22/12/2020 - 08:13

    Get outta there, time for something new :)

  • ratoloko on 22/12/2020 - 10:16
    +1

    Love what you do, not where you work!!!

    That alone answer your question.
    Your story tells me that your job is a hell and the worst place you would like to be right now.
    2020 gave you shit basically, I am sorry for hearing that.

    I am don't know your field but it does not hurt to get your resume and LinkedIn profile (if that applies to you) updated and move on. You might find happiness working with something totally different, who knows?!

    You know, life is too short to be unhappy where you work.
    And partner well, this COVID-19 was a hell of an exam for couples. Those that couldn't survive means It was never meant to be, so be happy about it. 4y is waaaaaaaay better than 10y, 20y, 30y together before the split.

    All the best to your virtual friend :)

  • hts on 22/12/2020 - 11:28
    +1

    That's pretty shit OP, hope things turn around soon!

    I left my previous job for similar reasons.

    1) my pregnant wife was having an extremely rough pregnancy. I told them prior to signing I would be in and out taking care of her but my work will always be done (I am lucky enough to have a job that can be done anytime). They were ok and happy to support in anyway.
    2) this required weekly interstate visits to specialists. Which meant I was working 4 days instead of 5, still doing my hours and my work.
    3) after bub was born, my wifes recovery was/is problematic. Unable to move, lift etc for 12 weeks post birth. We were in and out of hospital with the new born for weeks, had visiting nurses every day for 2 months. Work decided 2 weeks was more than enough healing time and since baby was now born I was to do 5 day weeks, no ability to work different hours, no ability to attend dr's appointments or tend my wife and children even though previous conversations said that was acceptable. The bosses wife was back at work 2 weeks after giving birth, so my wife just isn't trying hard enough (his words).
    4) I was fired for being too committed to my family and not committed to the business. All of a sudden I was unable to meet the requirements of my role (which I had been excelling at, great feedback, happy clients, happy team members). I protested and instead got offered a job with 60% pay reduction and about 95% of the same job. I took it as I have two kids and an unwell partner, not to mention working from home due to Covid. They then started doing random housecalls to check I was at my desk, even though we essentially have a webcam going on each of us all day, makes you feel very uncomfortable in your own house. Once they told me I was to go back to office and not work from home anymore, I was anxious, felt sick, I didn't want to talk to these people over teams let alone be in the same room as them, so I quit. Was a big big relief. We are going through savings though but I'm getting enough remote assistance work to pay the mortgage at least.

    I'm much happier, my wife is happier, we may not be earning the $120k from my job but at least we are happy. Hopefully my own business is successful enough and I can keep doing it long term as the freedom and flexibility is fantastic with a young family.

    Life is too short to work for arseholes.

    • sauce2k on 23/12/2020 - 00:23
      +1

      Good luck mate!

  • Queue2Queue on 22/12/2020 - 15:34

    Either speak through your lawyer or (yourself if you're ok with it) to your employer about being offered a package for your resignation.
    You'd be surprised what companies will offer to have an employee move on that they don't want (no offence).
    Usually expect a typically redundancy offering (4 weeks + 1yr for every year you're there), plus extra as it will not be taxed at the redundancy rate.

    Sorry for the ozB kinda answer.

    If you haven't been there that long or don't care about the money, just quit.
    Workplaces move on and it'll be like you were never there, they don't owe you anything AND neither do you.

    • John678 on 23/12/2020 - 23:50

      I already tried that through the lawyer. They rejected my offer of 12 weeks.

  • MisterQ on 22/12/2020 - 17:34

    Rule 1 - publishing on Social Media has consequences. You have learned that the hard way.

    Item 2 - Move on - I had a situation a while back, where my employer (who had poached me from said customer) got snitty because I wouldn't lie to that customer (I had personal relationships that went way back) - I walked away from that job - the project I was working on, failed without me involved, and the customer raked my ex employer over the coals.

  • lazarski on 22/12/2020 - 17:55

    "Is this a scenario where quitting is ok?" Is there a scenario where quitting isn't okay? I fully don't understand the question
    why wouldn't it be ok?

    based on their behaviour they clearly want you to leave but obviously can't fire you since you engaged a lawyer to stop that happening.

    Ask your lawyer? why are you asking ozbargain, none of these steps you take make sense to me

  • gtech on 22/12/2020 - 19:53

    IMHO every employee has three options:

    1. Change yourself
    2. Change the company
    3. Change company
  • Ryugen on 22/12/2020 - 22:39
    +1

    Please don't quit immediately and take some effort in trying to remedy the situation first. Your current actions after the legal case will not leave a good track record for a referral for your next job which could make it exceedingly difficult to secure alternative employment. All the people telling you to quit, they aren't eating with you / chipping in with your bills / sharing your life and are just #YOLOing cause it sounds good however remember any consequences from actions henceforth is for you to endure alone.

    My advice is to see if you can reach out to a counsellor / psychologist and talk about your situation. Is your work actually treating you unfairly or are they just getting caught in the crossfire that is the shitty situation in your life at the moment. Speak to your manager / boss privately and explain your situation, after consulting with a counsellor / psych. Discuss a resolution that would provide an effective employee for the business as well as give you some grounding for your life.

    If you have tried the above and it is just not working out, then by all means seek employment elsewhere but at least you would have had time to sort out your mental state and be able to hit the ground running in a new position, cause god knows working in a new environment isn't exactly 100% stress free. I hope everything goes well for you from now on, and to please visit https://www.beyondblue.org.au/ if you are unsure about life itself.

  • Orico on 22/12/2020 - 23:16

    Please don't quit. YOu may sink into a deep depression and lose all motivation to look for a new job or your performance will be severely affected in your new job.

    Try and repair the relationship with your manager at least. Find a new job then jump ship. Go to the meetings but just remain silent.

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