Funny Intersection - Who Should Give Way?

Lozziekhoo on 22/02/2021 - 12:34

Hi OZB,

First forum post, hope I do this right. So I was just interested in who should give way in this scenario. I have attached pics here to try to visualise the intersection here: https://imgur.com/a/vhO5o4z. No accidents with this one so hopefully less drama than your typical OZB driving discussion.
If anyone wants to see it better 3D on Google maps link here.

Anyway, so obviously Green always goes first before Red and Blue. If Red and Blue were the only cars there waiting and if we are going by round-about customs, Blue should let Red go I think.

Another thing, if Green goes, blocking Red for a second or so, should Blue be allowed to go (while Green is blocking Red giving Blue a second or so to start going)?

Thanks

Poll Options

  • 4
    Red
  • 56
    Blue
Automotive

Comments

  • oscargamer on 22/02/2021 - 12:37
    +4

    The dotted lines mean give way.

    That is not a roundabout, so those rules (give way to vehicles already in the r/b) obviously don't apply.

    If you are at a dotted line, you give way. So there is no "such and such car goes first" as that would imply a 'right of way', which doesn't exist.

    • ozziekhoo on 22/02/2021 - 12:41

      Hi, yes, but if both cars are waiting at the give way, who should go first?

      • oscargamer on 22/02/2021 - 12:44
        +7

        The bravest one.

      • stedmaster on 22/02/2021 - 12:51
        +7

        In the scenario of 2 give-ways, doesn't the give-way to your right override, as in the first right in succession of lanes?

        So blue has to give way to red, if no one is on green, if one is on green, blue & red give way, blue is always last.

        Its only the pedestrian crossing side that appears to have no give-way.

        Reminds me of a small intersection with 2 stop signs in New Zealand that people would get confused at all the time.

    • ozziekhoo on 22/02/2021 - 12:41

      Hi, yes, but if both cars are waiting at the give way, who should go first?

      • whooah1979 on 22/02/2021 - 12:42
        -2

        When in doubt, follow your training.

        • ozziekhoo on 22/02/2021 - 12:43
          +3

          I'm on my L's lmao. That's why I am asking on the internet.

          • whooah1979 on 22/02/2021 - 12:44
            -2

            @ozziekhoo: Ask you instructor.

          • oscargamer on 22/02/2021 - 12:44
            -5

            @ozziekhoo: There is no answer to that. Both cars are required to give way. So the one that doesn't move first, must give way to the one that moves first.

            • ozziekhoo on 22/02/2021 - 12:45

              @oscargamer: Ah okay. thanks

            • Ughhh on 22/02/2021 - 12:49

              @oscargamer: Wouldn't it depend on which car is turning right/crossing traffic?
              If cars on Marco Ave (from home solarium side) and Simmons st are both going straight, they can both go (if no 'green' cars). But if cars on Marco Ave (from home solarium side) want to turn right into Marco Av (towards Service NSW), they would need to give way.

              Birds eye view

              • oscargamer on 22/02/2021 - 12:52

                @Ughhh: How do you know what the other car is going to do?

                If the indicator is flashing, that does not give that car any 'right of way' over any other car.

                An indicator doesn't even tell others where the car is actually going to go (see Toyota drivers) or a non-indicting car can turn regardless (BMW drivers) or a car with a broken indicator (most white Commodores)

                • Ughhh on 22/02/2021 - 13:03

                  @oscargamer:

                  How do you know what the other car is going to do?

                  Isn't this the whole point of indicators and why you indicate? …

                  If the indicator is flashing, that does not give that car any 'right of way' over any other car.

                  No one has said anything about right of way, not sure why you mention it as indicator means exactly what 'indicate' means.

                  An indicator doesn't even tell others where the car is going (see Toyota drivers) or a non-indicting car can turn regardless (BMW drivers) or a car with a broken indicator (most white Commodores)

                  So all Toyota drivers don't indicate and most white commodores have broken indicators, therefore indicators are useless?? What about black commodores?? Lot's of anecdotal and ridiculous opinions here.

                  Indicators are to indicate where you would like to go, to make the situations more predictable for other drivers. Like everything else in life, not everyone will follow the rules, but majority do. An experienced driver will not solely rely on other drivers indicators for judgement, but a combination of things.

                  • oscargamer on 22/02/2021 - 13:20

                    @Ughhh: You clearly missed seeing my tongue buried firmly in my cheek then…..

                    Why so serious?

                    And don't misquote me. I said BMW drivers don't indicate and Toyota drivers go wherever they want, regardless of what their indicators are showing.

                    • Ughhh on 22/02/2021 - 13:40
                      -1

                      @oscargamer:

                      I said BMW drivers don't indicate and Toyota drivers go wherever they want, regardless of what their indicators are showing.

                      Ahhh OK, that makes 1000% difference.

                      "why so serious" in which part?
                      Considering your other and earlier comments were serious in nature (teaching others), can't be too sure.

          • Quantumcat on 22/02/2021 - 12:48

            @ozziekhoo: Do what the passenger says 😛

  • NatoTomato on 22/02/2021 - 12:48
    +2

    My first impression would be blue to give way.
    For one, it's approaching something similar to a T intersection, and also based on my past experience driving, I'd be giving way to the right if I was aware we were both at give way signs anyway, whether it's required or not. I'd feel like I was entering incoming traffic.

  • Seraphin7 on 22/02/2021 - 12:52
    +4

    Crap road design and unfortunately and ironically so typical in high pedestrian areas where you'd think designers would want to minimise the number of distractions/decisions drivers are forced to make.

    You'd think red should give way to blue, but that's on an interpretation that red is going across the path of blue (i.e. I've interpreted it as red is making a right turn, but blue is going straight on).

    Then again, based on the street names, red is going straight on and blue is moving from one street into another.

    To complicate matters, there's a pedestrian crossing right on the intersection from where green is coming from.

    My bet is this is the classic intersection where no one really know what they're supposed to be doing, don't know what other drivers are doing and so become hesitant themselves. It all adds up to everyone being totally uncertain, horns blaring all day long, and any number of near misses/minor bingles.

    • md333 on 23/02/2021 - 13:18

      There's a theory in traffic design that if you make it confusing enough, everyone will go slower and crash less. I think that's the principle they are going for here.

      • Seraphin7 on 23/02/2021 - 13:26

        They're going for something. Exactly what is the real question!

  • westzod on 22/02/2021 - 12:53

    Isn't it always give way to your right? So I would say Blue… unless thats only a QLD thing

    • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2021 - 20:29

      You're right, across all of Australia.

      The rules are: 1. Give way to traffic already in the intersection, and then 2. Give way to traffic coming from your right.

  • whitelie on 22/02/2021 - 12:54
    +2

    Technically it's the end of Simmons St (blue car) and they would give way to the right, so even though the red car is crossing in front of them, they (the blue car) are required to give way.
    The Give way for the red car is purely for anyone turning on to Simmons, so the green in your example.

  • kizzy on 22/02/2021 - 13:01

    As already mentioned above, give way to your right in situations like this.

  • Ghost47 on 22/02/2021 - 13:04
    +2

    NSW man I swear to god the road design is just stupid.

  • Drakesy on 22/02/2021 - 13:06

    From above it takes the form of a 3 way intersection with Marco Avenue East getting right of way. Although admittedly not putting give way lines on the eastern approach is a tad confusing, with the give way to the right rule seemingly not coming into play as it's been given the priority.

  • Archi on 22/02/2021 - 13:07
    +5

    i drive that intersection almost daily. blue gives way

  • Yummy on 22/02/2021 - 13:24
    +2

    Green, red, then blue last.

  • Euphemistic on 22/02/2021 - 13:36

    My read of it is that green and red are both on Marco Avenue, blue is on a separate street. Therefore blue gives way to both of them.

  • newjerseydamo on 22/02/2021 - 14:14

    This looks like a 3 way intersection, rather than a roundabout or a 4 way intersection.

    So that in mind, you would rotate around giving way to your right, and each person would take their turn to move forward. Similar to how they do it for 4 way stop signs in the USA.

    What I find weird is them stopping Marco Ave with a give way sign/line.
    If anything, Marco Ave should continue through, making it a T intersection on to Simmons St.

    Whoever designed this needs to be fired.

    • cheeseandbacon on 22/02/2021 - 17:08

      What I find weird is them stopping Marco Ave with a give way sign/line.
      If anything, Marco Ave should continue through, making it a T intersection on to Simmons St.

      That give way line on Marco Avenue (eastbound) looks to prioritise ALL westbound traffic (cars which are coming from the probably quite busy The River Road).

      Otherwise cars would likely bank up into The River Road during peak hours if blocked by several cars waiting to turn right into Simmons, etc.

      $0.02.

      • newjerseydamo on 22/02/2021 - 20:02
        +1

        Fair enough.

        I'm not familiar with the area so was just looking at the overhead Google maps view.

  • Fredfloresjr on 22/02/2021 - 15:07

    whoever voted red should be charged 1000$ daily for using the road.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 22/02/2021 - 15:22

      This just shows that I'm right in believing that no-one knows the road rules and will never stop or give way at the appropriate times. I assume people will go through and t-bone me on my motorbike. It only has to happen once.

      • mskeggs on 22/02/2021 - 15:33
        +1

        Sound assumption

  • Brian McGee on 22/02/2021 - 16:50

    Since Marco is the straight road and Symmons is the adjoining side street, the blue car gives way to through traffic.

    This is THE intersection roundabouts were invented for.

  • moneyhungry on 22/02/2021 - 17:49

    Clearly red, there is a give way sign.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2021 - 20:27

    It is very simple.

    Green line has right of way, as they are the only one without a Give Way.

    If Blue and Red arrive at the intersection at the same time.
    Red has right of way, and Blue must give way.

    If Blue arrives before Red, and enters the intersection first, Blue now has right of way as they are already in the intersection.
    Red must give way.

    Both Blue and Red must always give way to green.

    Two simple rules to follow here.
    A - Give way to cars already in the intersection, and
    B - Give way to vehicles coming from your right

  • CarWashRedhead on 22/02/2021 - 22:32

    Hey mate, did my L's at Revesby too couple months ago and found myself in this exact situation after pulling out from the carpark. I was blue, gave way to red, instructor didn't dock any marks and passed me so I'd say that's the way to go.

    • Archi on 23/02/2021 - 12:27
      +2

      i think your instructor didn't record any marks because you are driving safe..

      road rule #1 in all instances.,.. just because you have right of way doesn't mean you have the right of way to drive unsafely.

      "Just because you can, Doesn't mean you should"

  • OzHunterNSW on 23/02/2021 - 12:18
    -1

    It is plain to see, RED is to yield, as it is marked.

  • btech on 23/02/2021 - 12:39
    +1

    Since you're on your L's, here are the relevant rules for your reference https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/int…

    As you probably already know from the rest of the comments, Blue gives way to Red. As for your second question which I don't think has been answered directly, if Green blocks Red, Blue should still wait because they have to give way to the car in the intersection (Green) and also to the car to the right/going straight (Red). In real life though, they probably will go. Perhaps the best rule (of thumb) to follow is to be a considerate road user. It should not be adversarial combat out there but unfortunately often is. My favourite example is when people step out onto pedestrian crossings without caring about the car barreling towards them by saying "They have to give way". This may be so, but in car vs pedestrian the car will almost always win - so why not make sure they are going to stop before you cross and you can always curse them for not stopping while still being alive… Good luck with your driving and take care out there.

    • ozziekhoo on 23/02/2021 - 13:54

      Thank you very much

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