HELP - Why I Don't Have Car Insurance (Car Insurance Companies Won't Insure Me)

Ok, I saw the other post on why should have car insurances.

Let me share my problem on why I don't have car insurance and I'm hoping fellows in OzBargain can help me here.


Here it begins:

I do not have car insurance for my car, right now.

Why?
I could not find an insurer to insure my car (more precisely, on me.)

Last Sept, I switched my car insurance from AAMI to Budget Direct, considering lower premium.
However, I only mentioned two claims when I purchased the policy, whereas there were actually four in the past.

When I filed my new claim last Oct, Budget Direct denied the claim and refunded my policy, due to non-disclosure in the first place.

Honstly, I understand why Budget Direct did this, and I'm fine with their decision. I did forget to file the extra two claims, and according to their underwriting guidance, four past claims will put me uninsurable in the first place.

So, I fixed my car out of my own pocket, and I was ready to move on.

Appareantly, I underestimated the gravity of the situation.

I tried AAMI, Comm Insurance, GIO, etc. etc. No insurer is willing to insure me, due to I have been denied by an insurer before, under the ground of non-disclosure.
I tried couple of of insurance brokers as well, none of them even heard of this situation before.

I have two strategies here:
Find an insurer willing to insure me, or
Dispute Budget Direct's decision.

The latter one is ongoing, but not promising, Internal Dispute done, AFCA claim in progress, with slim chance (again, as it should be). Talked to lawyer even with no luck.

The former option is not much hopeful neither. Brokers have not heard of the situation, Insurance Council can only suggest use their website to find insurers and then call each of them individually. Insurance finder can only send insurance info close to my address. insurancelaw.org.au has been great help, but not enough to solve the problem.

Oh by the way, if i insure my car under someone else's name, when I'm in involved in the accident, the situation is still not insured.


So, fellows in Oz Bargain, any advices?

Comments

  • +12

    Can you get 3rd party?

    • +5

      Maybe hire a car ? - that would be one way to get insured.

      Hire a car long term that comes with an insurance policy and pay more. I think that might work.

      • +6

        Catch a bus?

      • Lease vehicle?

    • +2

      With the OPs record, I wouldn't insure them for 3rd party property either

  • +103

    So you've had 5 insurance claims to-date, withheld information from latest insurer and wondering why you can't get insured?

    Sounds like try third party, don't drive anymore or take your own insurance risk.

    • +16

      Yes, this is true.
      Insurance companies do not tolerate people who defraud them and willingly pass your information to others within their industry.

    • +13

      It should be illegal to not have at least 3rd party property insurance. People can't reasonably meet their financial obligation if they cause an accident.

      • -1

        Sorry - This is already the case isn't it? You can't drive on Australian roads without a minimum 3rd Party Insurance or that's what I at least thought?

        • +11

          Third party personal injury is compulsory. TPP is not. Too many people confuse this and think the compulsory component covers damages to property but it doesn’t.

          • +1

            @Euphemistic: Yes this. I'm saying it should be mandatory to have TPP because if someone runs into a shop front, or porsche and they will most likely be unable to pay the bill.

        • +1

          That one is CTP insurance which is included when you pay for registration. At least in WA. It's more for personal injury to the other driver rather than their car.

      • Or you should have to demonstrate you can pay for someone else's car, within reason

    • He forgot to mention that under "industry" he entered "smash repairer"

    • He should seriously consider not driving anymore. And not just because he is uninsurable.

    • Just don’t hit that Ferrari!

  • +42

    Generally, they only ask for insurance claims in the last three years, so were all four claims in the last three years?

    If that's the case, insurance isn't the problem, your bad driving is the problem…

    • +4

      Different insurers have different year limts.
      AAMI is 3, Budget Direct is 5, and some is lifetime.

      • -

      • AAMI is part of Suncorp and they are totally useless.

      • Which insurers ask for claim history over your entire lifetime? All quotes I have done ask for the last 3-5 years.

  • +35

    Consider telling the truth on your future applications
    And in the meantime… get a pushbike.

    Unless you have dollars to burn on your 6th accident

    • +1

      or an ebike, they have quite a range

  • +59

    5 claims in around a year??
    You shouldnt have a license until you learn to drive.

    You lied to an insurance company- your now marked for life. EG: the section that asks fi you have ever been refused insurance - enjoy that.

    Sell your car and buy a yearly bus ticket.

  • +12

    Member Since
    51 min ago

    Hmmm. Troll?

    Try going back to basics, get some driving lessons, you are either very unlucky on the road or your driving confidence exceeds your talent.

    Consider Uber and public transport for a year or five before shopping around for a new Insurance company.

    Don't lie to them, as you've found out they have plenty of resources to investigate your dodgy and 'forgotten' claims.

    • Only being newish to OzB… it seems to be a lot of members who register another account to ask (profanity) stupid/trolling questions on this forum

    • Consider Uber and public transport for a year or five before shopping around for a new Insurance company.

      The OP will end up saving even more money by not having to pay for rego, service, insurance and fuel.

    • +1

      I think if someone has 5 accidents in less than a year, the state governing body who issued your licence should revoke it until you pass another driving test.

  • +6

    You've been Black-listed (IFBA) for deceitful conduct??, so I doubt anyone will insure you…

    Will most likely also experience issues obtaining other types of insurance (home/contents), as the don't like dealing with forgetful individuals.

    Best of luck with; "Dispute Budget Direct's decision", and "due to non-disclosure", as your policy would have clearly stated outcomes of non-disclosure.

    They're also looking at more efficient ways of dealing with problematic individuals, fraud, etc.

    https://www.insurancenews.com.au/analysis/fighting-fraud-thr...

    "The existing industry-standard solution involves an insurance company looking for unusual behaviour in the data, noticing a pattern, suspecting something is wrong, adding the claimant to a blacklist, then sharing that blacklist with the Insurance Fraud Bureau of Australia (IFBA), which then shares it with other insurers."

    Broker's will most certainly know about this, but there's nothing in it for them to discuss this with you..

    • +8

      This guy might be forgetful, but let's not be too kind to insurance companies:

      1. they try to get out of any claim they can, sometimes on extremely unreasonable terms
      2. They always seem to 'find out' things about the person after they have an accident, why can't they find this out at the beginning so that people aren't driving around all year thinking they are insured
      3. They put your premiums up every year even if you don't make a claim, but if you call back and make a new policy, they're cheaper suddenly? What a way to take care of good customers
      4. I heard from a very reliable source that Budget Direct cancelled someone's not at fault claim because they had a subwoofer in the car, and claimed that modifications weren't disclosed. they paid after a fight, but how reasonable is that?

      and people wonder why insurance jobs are done

  • +6

    Well, I only had one claim in the last two years.

    not a great driver but have learnt my lesson the hard way.

    Re 3rd party, dead end.

    Re bus, that's what i've been doing…

    Thanks for the inputs guys.
    Any more thoughts on getting insurance, other than comments on my poor driving skills?

    • +2

      Spend your money on a driving instructor

      • +3

        Honstly, I thought about this, getting a advanced drive lesson.
        Then COVID hanppened, and then I don't have car insurance anymore…

        Now it's more of a moot point if I cannot drive on road, right?

        • +7

          Honestly, it might do you good to stay off the road for a bit and stick with public transport/bikes.

          That many accidents in a short time is a costly affair. Financially It cant be worth it to keep damaging cars and paying insurance even if your covered?

          Maybe take the time off the road till you settle your insurance disputes then spend some money on defensive driving courses. 🤷🏽‍♂️

          • +1

            @El cheepo: I understand what you are saying, and I agree.
            I do need to point out that most claims happened back in 2017.
            Only 1 claim in last two years (well, 0 would be better)

            What you are suggeting is absolutely correct, and I appreciate your time and kindness,
            but it is not helpful in my situation.

            I think it's agreable that being unable to drive in Australia, is not ideal.
            And it's agreable I need to horn my driving skills.

            What I'm asking is, any thoughts on how to solve the first part,
            as I know how to solve the second - spend some money on defensive driving courses, which is totally doable.

            • +2

              @yzha3917: I absolutely agree, not been able to drive in Australia is incredibly inconvenient.

              But, There may not be a simple solution or one you will like.

              Unfortunately its something that may just stay with you for a while, leaving you no insurance options which, with your driving record should leave you with out a vehicle to drive.

              Taking a year or two off driving may help when you come back to try insurance claims as you will have a bit of time behind you from your last rejection.

              • +1

                @El cheepo: Taking time off driving will lose what little skill they already have.

                I don't know any Driving Simulators that can fill the gap: Gran Turismo and GTAV don't count. With that said, also training with go-karts or bumper cars or derby isn't going to help.

                This is a punt; but OPs problem seems to be bad perception and hazard. They're most likely not driving fast and aggressive and getting into accidents in the cliche way. They're probably driving with their mind switching off, this is far more dangerous, and I've witnessed this in few of my friends. So I think the solution is to take the advice above, but not give up on practice. They need to take drives in empty carparks, abandoned sites, and outback roads. Away from other motorists and pedestrians, whilst they take advanced courses. And regular city driving should be done every once in a while with paid experienced instructors.

                And after all that time, effort, and money will OP be able to start driving safer again. Otherwise, OP should literally quit while ahead, as driving is not for everyone (we're all different). And if they hit a Lambo while uninsured they can kiss their finances, and if they kill someone kiss their life away.

                • @Kangal: My reasoning is not because I personally think the OP should be off the road. There are plenty of terrible drivers out there, many worse then him/her.

                  At this stage though, It’s for their own financial good.

                  Of course when your bad at something the best thing to do would be practice. But it this case, thats not possible with out a large financial risk

                  Can’t practice driving on the road as usual without risking a potentially crushing debt when you hit an expensive car and your uninsured.

                  The time off is to give the insurance companies x amount of years since the ops little accidental fraudulent application so they might consider insurance for them again.

                  • -1

                    @El cheepo: Yeah, but I feel like its going to require 5 years for the insurance companies to "forget" about her driving status. That's a long time. Long enough that OP's current skill is going to become equivalent to those "terrible drivers".

                    OP needs to drive uninsured, but do so in safe areas like I stated above, to mitigate the risk. And if possible, to do some/most of these drives with a paid instructor. As bad as it is to say: Use it or Lose it. I used to speak German when I was small, now, can't speak a lick of it. We can lose skills if we neglect them, and driving is a high-level skill of itself.

                    • @Kangal: It’s not practical or likely that the op or anyone in their position would practice like that.

                      1) who has the time to go for random practice drives?
                      (Op obviously doesn’t or probably would have learned to drive better)

                      2)How would you get to an outback road/empty carpark?
                      (Drive through traffic, risking an uninsured accident)

                      3) who wants to pay an instructor for one lesson here and there?
                      (That won’t help them improve, knocking out a heap of lessons in a row when they can get insurance again would be far more effective then 1 lesson a month for years)

                      = don’t drive and wait for a chance at minimum 3rd party insurance.

                • @Kangal: Come on, the guy said he's favorite 10 movies are fast and the furious 1-7 and the transporter 1-3. Oh no he didn't say that :-)

    • +4

      Bro to be honest I would really go back to a driving instructor and getting your basics right first because whoever it seems taught you in the first place/or you self learnt, didn't do the right thing.

      You should be able to drive safely without getting into accidents that you caused and you should be confident in this. If you don't believe you can drive, safely, then you shouldn't without supervision. No amount of insurance, is going to stop you from seriously injurying/killing someone else or yourself. Insurance is for material coverage, nothing insures someone back to life. You will go to prison for reckless driving causing injury or death.

      Insurance is the 2ND worry, your FIRST priority would be to learn how to drive safely.

      It seems you have likely developed bad habits, in which you need to go back to original driving lessons, not defensive driving.

      I would think so learning and revising the road rules again would help.

      You should try to get third party insurance for the time being, literally just keep on trying.

      I didn't realise insurance companies kept such a precise accurate database of people, what exactly did you do in the past? Did your previous claims go over $10k or something?

  • They may have assessed you as too greater a liability to their books with that past performance.
    Third party and get a cheaper car would be my suggestion.

  • +5

    Sounds like you are a menace to everyone on the roads - you made your bed now just lie in it.

  • +2

    You could self insure

    • … which is an oxymoron as it is the same as no insurance.

  • +2

    Transfer the vehicle to a family member, get them to insure it with a policy that has an excess for non-named drivers.

    • +1

      Sadly no.

      The second my name appears in the accident as the one at fault, the claim will be declined.
      Already checked with insurers.

      • +1

        Try NRMA.
        What's included
        For you and everyone who drives your car1
        Cover is subject to standard underwriting guidelines and policy terms. An additional excess applies to drivers under 25 or with less than 2 years’ driving experience.

        • +4

          Cover is subject to standard underwriting guidelines and policy terms.

          If OP claims it'll be denied, and OP's family member/friend will probably get blacklisted too.

      • +5

        Change your name.
        Something subtle…. Mr John Smith -> Mr Totally Insurable.

      • Thanks for sharing what happens with the non-disclosure.

    • This is fraud and a claim will basically be denied straight up once they find out who was driving.

      • And very easy to check, especially if the car is registered in OP name, but insured under someone else name.

        • I have a car thats someone elses but in my name, I told them upfront when insuring it and put them as a nominated drive (it was a suprise gift so couldnt put it in their name). No issues.

          • @Franc-T: Of course you can put it in a different name. The catch is when you allow a driver that has been refused insurance to get behind the wheel, they may refuse to cover them - if it is a condition of the policy.

            • @Euphemistic: Yep, thats why its important to be open from the outset to have the least amount of problems later.

      • doesnt this depend on whether the policy asks if any unlisted or listed drivers have a bad history?

        my recent policy, they said under a certain age is not covered, but they didnt mention any other drivers history

        • Ask yourself - what will happen when the OP has an accident and has to swap details, and the other person provides the OP's details to their insurance company?

          Also, an insurance company does everything it can to avoid paying. They will check everything they can.

          • +1

            @newjerseydamo: i dont disagree with insurance companies not wanting to pay out,

            but they cant just say we're not paying out because we found out some information that we didnt ask for/require in the first place

            my current policy has a under certain age no coverage for unlisted drivers, but it never asked about their driving history

            that being said, im sure im not covered if the unlisted driver didnt have a license

            so I dont know to be honest,

            I find that now I worry 10x as much about insurance if the worst case scenario happened ,and I got declined based on what I would consider an innocent mistake eg. years ago, I was fined for going through a red light by a police officer driving in the opposite direction, I contested it and elected it be heard in court, I got the date wrong and didnt show up, it now shows up as a court appearance on my driving record

            if that voided a future claim, I would be livid

            • +1

              @Samsungnote10: Just because they don't ask for something, doesn't mean they can't deny insurance.

              In regards to your example, if the driver is unlicensed, guess what, no insurance.

              Read your insurance PDS and what they automated recording or the person on the other end says when you try and sign up to insurance.
              They say you must be upfront and honest.
              Also, they ask if anyone else will be driving the vehicle, then go through the same questions.
              Go through the exclusions in the PDS and it will quite clearly state when they won't cover anyone driving the vehicle for specific reasons.
              The insurance is on the vehicle, however a condition of that insurance is that the driver driving the vehicle would normally be covered and not excluded for any reason, i.e. suspension of license, claims history, etc.

              Insurance companies can and will deny claims because you weren't upfront and honest; it's part of the PDS.

              Source: I worked in the insurance sector for several years and rather intimate with how the PDS and claims work.

              • @newjerseydamo: thx for your insight

                my best friend is going through this right now,
                he got caught drink driving recently, 0.06ish on a full license,
                first alcohol related offence,
                I believe its a 3month suspension, fine, and interlock
                he had just purchased 12 months insurance with budget direct
                and is wondering if he has to tell them straight away or when renewal comes through ,or only if they ask on renewal the specific question

                • +3

                  @Samsungnote10: Officially, he should tell them straight away. You should always let them know if your situation changes. If he doesn't, and he has an accident, they have an "easy out" and won't pay

              • @newjerseydamo: Wow, this is a big wake up call for me then….
                Sometimes I do allow other people to drive my car (workers, friends). I do know that they got their driving license, but it never came to my mind asking if they had their insurance ever refused. I was under the impression that if my car is insured (comprehensive) that I will only pay extra excess for an unlisted driver.
                Do I seriously need to ask anyone if they had any insurance cover denied?

  • -1

    I do need to point out that most claims happened back in 2017.

    can you please explain this? like what was going on with you?

    • Bad driving habit & first time I need to drive 50km+ everyday.

      • +10

        What bad driving habit? Driving with the knees? Tailgating? Merge without indicating? Don't leave us hanging here!

        • -10

          lol, I thought you were sincerely aksing.

          fool me once, shame on thee; fool me twice, shame on me

        • Judgement king!

      • +7

        Yes what was the bad driving habit?

        I am sincerely asking.

        • Ah, sorry.
          Thought Strand0410's reply was by you.

          Really not much can be said, to be honest.
          Be focus while driving, (as I wasn't)?

  • -2

    I'm just spit balling here but… Companies have to give corporate cars to lots of drivers, and I'm not certain that personal insurance standing matters in that situation?

    I've never been asked about my personal insurance record when driving a company car, or a rental/car share car.

    Or perhaps it does matter, and in the case of a claim the company has to pay out more? Any ozbargainers in the know?

    Tldr; register a company and sell your car to it - then obtain a corporate insurance policy

    • +4

      That’ll get OP a lifetime black listing..

      • -1

        Most likely.

        Even if the company is registered under a family member's name, if at the time of the accident the OP is found to be the driver, the insurance claim will still be denied as the company will be required to provide details of the driver under their duty of disclosure.

        • As much as I'm getting downvotes, I really don't understand why this would blacklist him.

          A company is a separate corporate and legal entity. This legal entity will be responsible for the insurance policy, so I don't understand how or why a director of a company would be personally blacklisted for a legit insurance policy the company has taken.

          I'm in no way suggesting that OP lie on the application, just questioning how corporate insurance policies work, as from my experience they do not ask for a personal driving history.

          I'd like to know if this solution would work - is there an Ozbargainer who works in the insurance industry anywhere that can confirm? (Assuming the previous posters don't - particularly speculative replies . If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me)

          • @barge-in hunter: Can I have your car insurance provider's name….

            For all insurance providers I have tried, they do ask you questions, including number of your past claims, whether your claim has been denied, your criminal offence, your driving offence, etc.
            Some quesitons come when you obtain the quote, some come when you purchase them.

      • He "forgot" about claims when taking out insurance. He likely already has a lifetime black listing. Play stupid games, get stupid prizes. That said, he won't get around anything. He's not the first person to have tried. If he can't find anyone to insure him with full and honest disclosure he's stuffed.

    • Thanks for the advice.
      Will call a broker to find out feasiblity tmr.

  • Uber

    • +16

      but not as a driver

      • lol, I guess you all are saved as Uber requires driver to have insurance

  • +1

    "forgot"

    I wouldn't insure you either. Time to start taking the bus and uber.

  • +17

    OP has had 5 accidents in the last few years and wonders why no insurance company will touch them…

    • +3

      Someone who drives for a living and has had 5 crashes (not accidents) in a short period of time should be rethinking their career path to not include driving.

      • Yeah, I totally agree.

        But,

        1. Who does drive for a living? Not me…
        2. Who has had 5 crashes? Not me, I said claims.
        3. Who has them in a short period of time? Not me, I said earliest two were in 2017.

        Are you replying to my post?

        • Not specifically directed at you. Just the context of driving to make a living and having a bad history.

          1. You may not drive for a living but it appears you think it’s essential to drive to your job (maybe I read that wrong)
          2. 5 claims in 4 years is too many, crashes or not. Interested to hear what a claim that’s not a crash is. Did someone hit and run you more than once?. Elsewhere you mentioned 2 crashes in your old car.
          3. Yes it is a short period of time for 5 claims. More than one every 5years should be considered a lot.
  • Was the memory loss from one of the accidents you caused? Who taught you to drive? What are these bad habits? Should have learnt with an instructor so you didn't pick up on the bad habits of your parents who probably wouldn't pass a driving test these days.

  • +2

    Not giving you insurance is probably saving your life.
    But if you really need, your only option might be an "unlisted driver" on someone else's policy. Read their PDS carefully.

    • Unlisted driver might be a clause that gets you behind the wheel, but get in an incident and the insurer will look you up. There will be a clause in the policy that excludes ‘previously refused insurance’ drivers.

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