HELP PLEASE! Scammed out of nearly $100K

Hi everyone,

So I'd like to precede this by saying I already feel absolutely horrible. I feel like throwing up constantly just thinking about this, but thought I would put it out there to see if anyone in the OzBargain community might have had any similar experiences or any advice.

Long story short, it appears a scammer hacked either my conveyancer's or the other side's conveyancers email accounts. and from doing so, got my details as well as the details of my upcoming property settlement. They knew the amounts due in terms of stamp duty payments etc, as well as the dates these amounts were due. They created a near identical email account to my Conveyancer, who I was emailing around 5-10 times a day and so simply didn't notice anything out of the ordinary when I received the scammer's email. It popped up only with my Conveyancer's name and the email address didn't come up as 'new sender' or anything. I know that I should have checked the email address before doing anything, but I had just answered about 3 other emails from my Conveyancer and still had about 3 to go. I had 6 emails in a row from her on different matters and it didn't at all enter my mind that 1 of these 6 might not be like the others.

In short, I transferred nearly $100K at the direction of this scammer who I believed to be my Conveyancer to the account they directed in the email. I called the Conveyancer later that afternoon to discuss another matter, and mentioned to her I had transferred the stamp duty payment for this property. It was then we both realised what had happened.

I searched the BSB and realised it was a Bank X account. I called Bank Y first (my bank) to ask them to commence a scam investigation and try recover the funds immediately. They advised the funds had already reached the other account but they opened the Scam investigation immediately. I then went to Bank X and tried to have them freeze the account the funds were received into. They said the account was already closed and for some reason, they couldn't see any details in the system about who had opened or closed it (how is that possible?). That night, I attended the Police Station and filed a fraud/scam report.

I now have the Conveyancer's insurer, the Police and Bank Y/Bank X working on this case but I'm accepting the worst and not expecting to get anything back. In the off chance anyone here might have had similar experiences and have any advice, I thought I'd raise it to the OzB community. Again, please don't pile on me. I know and I feel horrible. I've barely been able to sleep and I am just hoping there may be some avenue I haven't thought of, even if its not likely to succeed.

Thanks in advance everyone

Mod: Edited for privacy

Comments

      • +4

        That is awesome info mate. Thank you so much for that! Definitely going to push this forward!

        • +2

          What Ash-Say said is spot on, like my original post you'll get it out of NAB. Either via insurance or directly. Was going to also say that it was an inside job in the bank but there are so many shit posters who jump all over you on this board, so I held back. Reason it's an inside job is first-hand knowledge, hearing from farmers who got ripped off by banks in the '90s. People were booted off their land with excuses saying they were in default, but they never were… and it all got covered up, particularly in WA.

          As soon as you mentioned the accounts were closed immediately, someone in the backend of the bank facilitated it. Again, went through my own grief going to court with two of the big four banks at the same time. Was extremely surprised to know how much people that 'do not' work in branches had in access through their portals. Whatever you do, you'll probably have your account closed by NAB anyway. Oh, and they'll make you sign an NDA too.

          • +3

            @jonkvh:

            Whatever you do, you'll probably have your account closed by NAB anyway.

            OP has CBA account, not NAB.

  • +3
  • +3

    Any further developments here OP? I really feel for you.

    • +1

      @celtics889345 I'm interested to know as well. Especially if it ends up being reported on by your SMH contact.

      • probably still investigating…

  • +19

    Hi all,

    Apologies again for the delay in update. For those still following, after receiving said snarky letter from Bank X claiming they'd followed all required procedures and verified the account holder for the account that scammed me, I sent them a response saying they should not assume I don't know more than they think. To this letter, I attached an email from a member of their scams team who had anonymously provided me info about the account, the amount received and where it was all sent. All I had given this team member was the BSB and Account number and he was able to come up with accurate info about it all, down to the cent in terms of what I had sent. I am now awaiting a further update from Bank X on that front after a week of silence, but I'm not going to let it rest with them.

    Regarding the Insurance Comp A route, the 2 weeks my conveyancers had given the other side's conveyancers for response to the facts of the case making it clear it was them who was hacked has now passed. I am now discussing next steps with both my conveyancer and Insurance Comp A. It looks likely based on the fact the other side didn't even acknowledge the letter of demand that we're going to have to go to Court with them to recover the money.

    Lastly, on AFCA, I've had no update from them since receiving an email saying they had opened my case.

    I will update you all as soon as I have a decent update. Sorry again its taken so long!

    • +5

      Thank you for the updates! I really do hope you get somewhere

    • +2

      Thank you for keeping us informed. I hope you get your money back and some dodgy arse holes see justice!

    • To this letter, I attached an email from a member of their scams team who had anonymously provided me info about the account, the amount received and where it was all sent. All I had given this team member was the BSB and Account number and he was able to come up with accurate info about it all, down to the cent in terms of what I had sent. I am now awaiting a further update from NAB on that front after a week of silence

      I'll give you a further update that NAB won't tell you:

      The employment of the "member of their scams team who had anonymously provided me info about the account" has had their employment terminated.

      (The above is not fact, it is my assessment of what is likely to happen.)

      Almost everything in banking generates trace records. Those records will be used to identify the staff member.

    • +1

      I've been following along, but providing the email that you were given by someone you know might have been a bad idea as they may lose their job.

      I've worked in a fraud team before (not banking though) - they will keep meticulous records and can see who has viewed which account etc.

      There is a lot of work done behind the scenes when a fraud matter is investigated, they would need to lodge reports with the relevant authorities and such - it is very frustrating to be the victim without any clear communication from the bank(s). Others have indicated it might be an inside job which is terrifying in itself.

      I'm sorry they haven't seemed to have responded with anything useful, I do hope everything is recovered for you and it's a shame that you have to go through so much to fight this!

  • +24

    By way of update, finally a good one. Insurance Comp A contacted my conveyancers a few days ago who contacted me to say Insurance Comp A have confirmed that the breach was indeed on the other conveyancers side so that at least resolves that question and Insurance Comp A have said they'll come back to us next week with a 'settlement offer.' My conveyancers advised that often they provide a bit of a lowball figure to start, hoping you'll just want to get what you can back but from talking to a few who deal with them regularly, they've said that they won't want to go to Court over this amount (which for them isn't huge). As such, I've made it known that I will indeed to go to court to get it back should they offer anything below what I lost to this Cyberhack and I 100% will if required.

    Also, really horrified to hear the couple of comments saying the Bank X staffer may get in trouble over it. I had scratched all names, times, email addresses etc out of the transcript I provided and hoped that would protect this person's identity :(

    • +3

      I've made it known that I will indeed to go to court to get it back should they offer anything below what I lost to this Cyberhack and I 100% will if required.

      As you should! I can't believe they would even try to offer anything less than the full amount. If anything it should be the full amount + compensation.

    • +2

      I’m excited for you! Really hope you’ll get back the full amount. This must be such a major distraction to work/family & everything else in life!

      • +3

        Big time mate. Its affected basically every aspect of my life in the last few months, which has been tough. Hopefully the worry is coming to an end soon though!

        • +1

          A few years ago, my retired dad (overseas) once wired almost $20k from his super into his savings account and missed a digit (so no hack like yours, just a mistake). The money went into someone else's account and the banks played dumb for months. Then one day after 6 months it appeared back into his account, no formal comms from either of the bank, other than a few phone updates in between. He felt so dumb and then so relieved afterwards so I can relate a little I suppose.

    • +2

      Excellent news mate!

      Hopefully, the burden has lifted somewhat.

  • +1

    Good news!

  • +1

    Hi. I’m so sorry to read your story and other scams mentioned. What a horrible situation and can’t imagine the stress.

    Some fantastic people here. Was wonderful to see the knowledge about the breaches to list specifically and all the other useful information.

    Am very happy to hear you’ll get it back.

    let us know that you get it and not go court - and you should ask for compensation for trans.

    Ombudsman involved in Cba case lodged by people I know in relation to fraud by accountant and proved CBA failed to verify signatures won case to get back $400k Stolen from family SMSF.
    Destroyed their lives for years.
    Police didn’t do much tbh. The girls followed up CBA and got copies of the ph calls and could hear the bsttrd and his sister pretending to be members of their family and the delays in response to security questions.

    They got the max award of compensation of $3k each.

    The loss of return for the 5 years it took since discovery and lodged complaint to police , the amount of paperwork, stress, then they took fight to CBA, ombudsman… taken years of their life and likely off their life.

    The pos is walking around laughing and living it up.
    Law is a joke. No justice in law.

    • My guess it that the OP cannot tell us the result.

      This is because Lawcover has a policy that it does not payout for cyberattacks. Many people I know have not been successful at all.

      In this situation however, there may be some light as the funds may have been frozen in time. We won't know the full story as that is the nature of these investigations.

      • We may here something soon… OP is a bit sporadic with their responses.

        Hoping we do! :)

  • +14

    "OP is a bit sporadic with their responses." Thats for sure ;)

    So 3 weeks after confirming there was a breach on the other conveyancer's servers and that I'd receive a settlement offer the following week, we're chasing that. My lawyers are today sending a letter of demand for payment within 14 days and failing this, we'll go to court to recover the amount + damages. I am hoping this threat will hurry them up a bit. I will definitely follow through on it if they don't. 3 months is a long time for an individual to be missing such a large amount and they're taking their sweet time with it which is causing me additional financial and personal stress as I try to survive in the interim

    • +2

      hehe… that's great news mate!

      Yea- it's only going to get more painful if they don't resolve this soon. I'd say that letter of demand plus damages will make them hop to is.

      Best wishes- I hope this is tied up nicely for you.

      • +1

        Hi OP- bumping this!

        Any update yet? Was there a tense show down?

        • +3

          Hi mate,

          I think they've pinned my last update a few days ago to the 1st page of comments. Feel free to take a read. Was a great outcome for me :)

          • +1

            @[Deactivated]: Just read it.. wonderful news. So happy for you! Glad you got back every cent.

            • +1

              @Buckshot: Thanks mate! Appreciate it :)

    • +3

      Can't imagine the stress of this ordeal for you. Hoping for the best outcome!!

  • +2

    Wow! My property settlement was today. Initially I had told my bank that I was going to send the funds to my conveyancers account, but at the last minute we both agreed it would be easier to keep it in my offset account and allow the bank to draw the settlement funds from that account. Only after reading this do I realise that this decision was the right call.

    • +1

      You would think banks would have their shit together. Mind blowing that large corporations can't get it together, with the right resources and investing into adequately trained staff.

      • There is a simple reason why they can't get it together. It costs money rather than make money. They do not care about the victims, such as OP or the children hurt by pedophiles, and unless the fines are huge it's cheaper for them not to change. Similar to Packer casinos:

        Crown Resorts has been slapped with a $1 million fine by Victoria’s gambling regulator over its failure to vet high-roller “junket” tour partners for criminal links and other probity issues.

        The high rollers that junkets brought into Australia could lose up to $15 million an hour gambling in the VIP gaming rooms at Crown Melbourne.

        That's 4 minutes worth for over how many years of junkets?

        https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/crown-sydney-casin…

  • +3

    Awesome news!

    What a huge relief. It’s also nice to know that the conveyancers saw an opportunity to fight with you to right a wrong and do it with kindness and not make money.

    They would have felt equal happiness and delight in their hearts, the old adage about ‘in giving you receive’ is very true.

    So very happy for you. 🌺

  • This exact same situation has happened with my brother and parents.

    It is extremely stressful.

    I cant believe how eerily similar your story is.
    The main difference being. Our conveyancer is completely dodging all responsibility and their "IT department says their system was not compromised"

    What other avenues are there?
    They are clearly lying because I've checked my brothers Laptop and accounts thoroughly. But its our word against theirs.

    We already spent 2-3 thousand on a lawyer to chase their insurance, just to be told it wasn't their fault.
    Being down 230k isn't a great time to be adding up lawyers fees either, so we had to pause that for now.

    This happened in January this year. Since then, the bank recovered just under half. Which is a massive relief. But as you can imagine this is extremely stressful for my family.

    • +1

      Ohhhhhhh no I'm so sorry to hear this :( I'd contact the insurer directly if I were you and report it to them if your conveyancers are dodging responsibility. They would be concerned that this could happen again unless they take a look and rectify any loophole.

      Definitely suggest doing that ASAP

      • +1

        Our lawyers went to their insurance directly and their insurance dodged all blame on their behalf. (With some straight up false excuses)

        We stopped because we felt like we were about to lose even more money on lawyer fees

        I might call them directly though and see what can be done

        Thanks

        • Sorry just saw this. How did you go?

        • Hi @Papa Giuseppe, we’re you able to retrieve your money back?

      • Hi @celtics889345, me and my partner were scammed similar to how you were. We bought a house in Melbourne and once our loan was approved, our broker told us that our conveyancer will contact us for rest of the deposit and stamp duty. Then we got an email from the conveyancer to send the stamp duty money which was 44270 and unfortunately we sent the money via osko and realised that it was a scam only two days later. The conveyancer told us that this has happened to his other clients too and one client sent the money but was able to retrieve it back and others call him before sending. I asked him why didn’t he tell us about it before and he told he puts a small disclaimer in his signature which is hard to notice. Because of ur article we came to know that we can get the money back from the insurer but after sending the letter of demand the insurer is not taking any responsibility. They are even saying his IT systems were not compromised. We are very stressed and depressed. Please give us some advice in this situation

        @

        • +1

          If you have not already done so, seek legal advice. You may need to sue the conveyancer, and then their insurance will have to respond properly. Hopefully you have some documented proof of what the conveyancer told you (i.e. other clients affected). Good luck.

          • +2

            @megaclix: We have hired a lawyer and he helped us with the letter of demand. We don’t have a written confession from our conveyancer that his other clients also got these emails but his signature had the email used by the scammers which proves that he was aware of these scam emails. He sent his clients a warning email after we got scammed, if he would do this before then we would have been safe too. I don’t understand how can the scammers get our details without the conveyancers systems being hacked. The scammers even knew the entire money we had to transfer for settlement.

            • +1

              @Rrb12345: Just an FYI in case you don't know. Emails have a hidden header which can contain some valuable information about where the email came from, and what validation method is used. For example, google 'email dkim' and 'email spf'.

              Edit: I see this has been mentioned earlier in this thread a few times already, so you are probably already on to this.

  • Noticed this article on SMH this morning - looks like exactly the same crims:
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sydney-couple-buying-pro…

    Hopefully they'll be caught soon.

  • +8
    • From the SMH article:

      "An anonymous user contacted him, claiming to work in NAB’s financial crime team, and offered to look up the account.

      I didn’t give this person any info other than the BSB and account number I transferred to and they were able to send me exact details of what was sent, when it was received, which proved the person was genuinely in the bank at NAB as no one else would have access to the info.”

      Unfortunately, I think NAB will be able to discover which of their employees was the "anonymous user" referred to in the article. The NAB systems would almost certainly record the employees ID in the system logs when the lookup was performed. It is quite likely that the employee has been disciplined and possibly dismissed for their good samaritan act.

      • +1

        I really hope thats not the case :( I'm hoping that given NAB/UBank may not currently have the details of which account it was (as it was one of thousands of similar situations and because the action to recover was through my bank and not NAB), they may deem it not worth their time now to try find out which account it was referring to out of the thousands of scam accounts they're dealing with. It would say a lot given they weren't interested at all in helping at the time but suddenly in an effort to discipline whoever the staff member was, start investigating now. Potentially more interested in disciplining someone who actually did try to help than holding themselves accountable if thats the case.

      • -5

        The NAB is dodgy enough without its workers making it worse.

        Workers that abuse their power or access should all be fired.

        NAB fined $18.5 million for overcharging 15,000 customers
        Eliza Bavin
        26 August 2021, 2:37 pm
        NAB has been ordered to pay a $18.5 million fine over fees charged to customers (Source: Getty)
        The Federal Court has ordered National Australia Bank (NAB.AX) to pay a $18.5 million penalty for failures relating to misleading fee disclosure statements.
        https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/nab-fined-185-million-over…

    • Came here to post the same article

  • -8

    Cbf reading the comments
    But clearly this was your fault for not reading the email correctly.

    Secondly would you also not call the conveyancer to confirm the bank account details over the phone too.

    Good on you for getting your funds back. You really lucked out there.

    For the record I work in banking and understand the entire process. Very lucky guy indeed

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