What's The Usual Overtime in Software Industry

Lpacareer2021 on 11/04/2021 - 22:05

I have been working here for past couple of years. I am a permanent resident. I have accepted a job offer at different organisation and about to join in couple of weeks. I just started reading reviews in various job sites and glassdoor and many have commented having to slog often, work overtime and be available on call most of the times.

I would like to understand what's the usual overtime in software industry and what if I want my own time as I have family with kids and need to take care and spend time with kids and don't want to be on call availability at all times.

In my current organisation, I start by about 8:30-9:00 would usually leave by 5 and no one asks a thing. Occasionally if there are any issues or deadlines to be met, I've spent extra time without anyone asking. Is it okay to just shut down the system at 5 and leave?

The reason I am asking the question is my current company is a small one and I am moving to a larger organisation and I am not very familiar with practices in large organisation.

Education & Work

Comments

AndyC1 on 11/04/2021 - 22:25

+6

Depends on the culture and if the company values their employees. IMHO do as little as possible otherwise they will expect it and it will become the norm. As for on call read the job offer / contract you have signed for the details if there is any on call as this is where most large companies get work for free and after hours, which unfortunately has become the more the norm now than say 10 or 20 years ago and it sucks.
mskeggs on 11/04/2021 - 22:26

+1

Really depends on the company.
If you are working for a company that sells its own software, I would expect more overtime, deadlines needing to be met etc.
If you are doing software that is ancillary to the business (billing, or salesforce or web stuff) I would expect fewer crunch deadlines.
That said, each business is different and I have seen a dev sleeping under their desk after working all night on a billing system, and worked at a place where devs have predictable hours (though maybe not 9 to 5, that seems pretty light unless you are in the public service maybe).
SF3 on 11/04/2021 - 22:33

+6

Member Since
38 min ago

Thanks for joining.

I am moving to a larger organisation and I am not very familiar with practices in large organisation.

There is no correlation between overtime and the size of organisation.

Even a small ambitious start up, you could be working crazy hours…

However, the culture and the team you happen to be with is what affects it the most - IMHO. I would say it is generally the case not whether it is software industry or other sectors.
- jv on 13/04/2021 - 12:13
  
  There is no correlation between overtime and the size of organisation.
  
  Is that really true though?
  
  I always believed someone working at Woolies works 10 times the overtime of someone at BHP, and someone at Walmart, works 100 times the overtime of someone at BHP…
johndowy on 11/04/2021 - 22:36

Aged care centre
Health care sector
Start 8am, finish 4pm, leave 5pm.
- BargainCowboy on 12/04/2021 - 09:11
  
  +3
  
  What do you do between 4-5?
  - Chandler on 12/04/2021 - 09:42
    
    Agesd care centre
    Health care sector
    
    What do you do between 4-5?
    
    Probably handover, documentation.
[Deactivated] on 11/04/2021 - 22:55 Comment score below threshold.
- [Deactivated] on 11/04/2021 - 23:27
  
  +2
  
  I don't think you should think that way. The people who do end up nowhere.
  
  Rubbish.
  
  In my experience… The employees that always work late and pull in crazy hours have always been the worst performing employees.
  The most competent and productive employees did their job, they did it well, and went home.
  - [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 00:14
    
    -2
    
    Tell me about your experiences in Silicon Valley in either 2000 or 2006, bigshot. How many IPOs were you involved in? Is this the part where you say you know IT but weren't good enough to work in the US during either boom?
    
    [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 00:14 (Collapsed - Offtopic. Show)
    - mskeggs on 12/04/2021 - 07:19
      
      Good enough!?!
      Start ups were recruiting anybody who had typed in a magazine listing from Zzap64 magazine as a kid.
      Working 100hours a week at pets.com wasn’t a good move if your priorities were home and family.
      - [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 08:52
        
        -2
        
        @mskeggs: Nup. If you were there, you'd know the famous CEOs and their cafe hangouts. Name some pairings. Name the biggest blowhard CEO in Silicon Valley 2006 at ground level, not based on Googled keynote speeches from afar. The real snake oil salesman himself.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 09:27
        
        @[Deactivated]: The real question is… who cares?
        
        Tell us all about your first hand experience and not what you got from movies, hot shot.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 09:32
        
        @[Deactivated]: Have you still got your SFO passport stamps from 2000-2006? Pretty hard to fake them.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 09:34
        
        @[Deactivated]: Just answer my simple question hot shot.
        
        Which famous developer are you?
        
        By the sounds of it, we should have all heard of you and have you app on our phones.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 09:39
        
        +1
        
        @[Deactivated]: Haha. Do describe the 2000 and 2006 app scene. J2ME lol. You have only been working post Iphone and it's obvious. Miss the booms, did you?
        
        What were the best internship showbags circa 2006? Rank them.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 10:01
        
        +1
        
        @[Deactivated]: internship showbags from nearly two decades ago?
        
        There are nearly 8,000,000,000 in the planet, and not a single one of them cares.
        
        You're about as irrelevant as the person that stays in the office until 9pm every day because they're inept at their job.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 10:09
        
        @[Deactivated]: Defensive much?
        
        You might not care about NASA, Pixar, Google, Apple graduate recruitment, but if you worked in Silicon Valley and had to compete with them for grads, you would have known and cared, lol. Careful, your insulation is showing.
        
        What was the big branding backflip of the 2006 boom era. The singular biggest one? ;)
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 10:22
        
        @[Deactivated]: I asked you a simple question and you can't even answer it.
        
        Lots of people care about NASA, Pixar, Google and Apple graduate recruitment… They just don't care what showbags they were giving away to interns nearly 20 years ago.
        
        Go back to programming using COBOL gramps
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 10:28
        
        @[Deactivated]: Couldn't even get the Cingular hint, lol. They must be small….right?
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 10:37
        
        @[Deactivated]: Nah, I get it.
        
        You got an internship 16 years ago, and a sweet showbag.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 10:41
        
        @[Deactivated]: No. I was fighting for graduates against the likes of NASA and Google. Read it again. Concentrate on the comprehension aspect.
        
        Why are you giving career advice on here if your experience is so limited? Never IPOed. Never worked in the US, clearly. How is your incentive structured?
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 11:10
        
        @[Deactivated]: Sure thing mate, remember that dreams aren't reality.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 11:23
        
        -2
        
        @[Deactivated]: What will you do if I am proven correct? AFR Fast 100 even. Get doxxing!
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 11:28
        
        @[Deactivated]: Well, for starters… I still wouldn't care..
        
        So there is that.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 11:35
        
        -3
        
        @[Deactivated]: When I was upgraded to international first class by my bosses, the slackers like you didn't get told. Do you accept that part, that the 9-5 serfs like you don't even find out the perks? You just pat yourself on the back that you made the first train home after 5PM. I think you are entitled to work that way, but it's not good career advice. IT industry but no incentive bonus, lol. You da man!
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 11:49
        
        @[Deactivated]:
        
        my bosses
        
        Awwww. Cute.
        
        Before COVID I averaged nearly 200 flights a year, and I don't have a boss.
        
        Just a little bit of perspective for you, champ.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 11:50
        
        @[Deactivated]: Did you put yourself on jobkeeper? Which international first class lounge have you been in?
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 11:52
        
        @[Deactivated]: Lame comeback with nothing of value, just like everything else you've commented.
        
        Mr iNtErNaTioNal FiRsT KhlAaS
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 11:56
        
        -2
        
        @[Deactivated]: What's the ghostprint on your USA working visa? Quickly. Quickly! Clock's ticking. Hold it up to the light as you can't just google it.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 18:18
        
        @[Deactivated]: Don't worry mate, you're enough of a toxic delusional narcissist that we all believe you.
        
        What's the ghostprint on your USA working visa?
        
        I don't have a working visa for the US. Last time I checked (and this could have changed since the last time I looked), citizens don't need a working visa for their own country.
        
        You still haven't answered my question. Who cares?
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 20:01
        
        @[Deactivated]: You, evidently. Why would someone follow your career advice if it got you nowhere?
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 20:13
        
        @[Deactivated]: Hang on… That is a big rich coming from someone that has to report to a boss.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 20:17
        
        @[Deactivated]: Do you dislike rich people? You seem resentful. You also don't seem to understand the concept of employee stock options. Never got any, huh? Another thing they hide from the 9-5 sprinters.
        
        mskeggs on 12/04/2021 - 22:51
        
        @[Deactivated]: No idea what cafes were popular in 2006. I worked for ISPs leading up to the Dotcom boom and met hundreds of dreamers and hundreds of startups with funding. I can assure you in 1999 there were many, many startup web companies employing very substandard programmers because there was barrels full of investment money, and not enough coders to go around.
        If you could write a cgi script in Perl you could get a job, if you could write a sql call in php you could get a job.
        
        I know Microsoft and Oracle and Yahoo and Sun were recruiting talented programmers, but there were many more who were average or worse. Many of those sub-par programmers wasted lots of effort for worthless stock, but I guess maybe they had coffee with Silicon Valley blowhards in 2006?
        The OP here is prioritising family time. There are plenty of corporate programming jobs that don’t require insane hours, it’s not all start up culture.
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 04:21
        
        @mskeggs: This will test you. Which ISP employer was the Willy Wonka golden ticket unicorn?
        
        mskeggs on 13/04/2021 - 09:30
        
        @[Deactivated]: In Australia, the connect.com people did very well from AAPT, and AAPT subsequently did very well from TNZ.
        In the UK, the Pipex car park was full of Lotus’ so I would say they did alright. OzEmail famously delivered Malcolm, Trevor and Sean close to 50 times their money, though they probably left at least that again on the table, and it was good for employees, but no golden ticket.
        The UUnet people I dealt with always looked pretty pleased with themselves. So I will go with them selling to Worldcom, or if we can count spectacular flame outs, Global Crossing if you sold your options at the peak.
        But all those were pretty big operations by the time the biggest money was coming, so there is probably a smaller company that managed to time their buy out or listing perfectly for the ratio of value to staff.
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 09:38
        
        +1
        
        @mskeggs: It was AOL. There were even secretary millionaires from the AOL options. I worked with a bunch of AOL Germany slacker millionaires similar to those in this article. They really were like jackpot lotto syndicate winners trying to figure out what to do with their filthy rich lives.
        
        This is a must read:
        
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/daily/aug99/gild…
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 11:51
        
        @[Deactivated]:
        
        Which ISP employer was the Willy Wonka golden ticket unicorn?
        
        It was AOL.
        
        Hey man, I get it that you were in a coma for the last 2 decades but its 2021 now and no one cares about AOL anymore.
        
        I'm sorry to tell you think but MSN Messenger and ICQ aren't things anymore either…
        
        Do you dislike rich people? You seem resentful. You also don't seem to understand the concept of employee stock options. Never got any, huh? Another thing they hide from the 9-5 sprinters.
        
        I mean, I don't get stock options. That is true. But that is because I own the entire company.
        
        It really cool that you think that you're a hot shot and all, but you're just another lacky.
        
        The issue that you have is you don't understand the difference between being rich and wealthy.
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 13:13
        
        @[Deactivated]: 'It really cool'. Nice work, Shakespeare.
        
        Anyone can own an 'entire' company. You even used 'entire' to embellish something facile. If you were any good, you would have retired in your thirties. Instead you are gnashing your teeth, frothing over your embarrassing app gaff. Only a DeLorean can save you from here, or do you blame your Symbian communicator?
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 13:38
        
        @[Deactivated]: Symbian?
        
        You have a really weird fetish for obsolete and irrelevant things.
        
        Boomers these days.
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 13:39
        
        @[Deactivated]: You were the one talking about the 2000-2006 phone app scene, remember. Tell us more. Your knowledge is good for a laugh.
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 19:53
        
        @[Deactivated]:
        
        You were the one talking about the 2000-2006 phone app scene, remember.
        
        Actually, I do not remember that.
        
        You might have dementia or alzheimer's, or even both…
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 20:14
        
        @[Deactivated]: Here you go, squirt.
        
        "By the sounds of it, we should have all heard of you and have you app on our phones."
        
        Why are you commenting in a thread about software development when you can't program?
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 23:13
        
        @[Deactivated]: Where did you get the idea I was talking about the "phone app scene in 2000 - 2006"?
        
        You really need to get your medication checked.
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 23:22
        
        @[Deactivated]: When you incorrectly confused the 2006 mobile boom with phone apps. You really gave away your inexperience easily.
        
        Have you worked out that the term is 'bit rich' rather than your 'big' eggcorn yet?
        
        [Deactivated] on 14/04/2021 - 15:45
        
        @[Deactivated]: I still have no idea what kind of drug flued rant you're going on about.
        
        You're just confusing yourself old man.
        
        [Deactivated] on 14/04/2021 - 15:56
        
        @[Deactivated]: Is 'flued' your bogan attempt at spelling 'fuelled'?
        
        Charmoffensive on 05/09/2021 - 03:30
        
        @[Deactivated]: Man, I'm so glad frugal's account was disabled. That guy was such an insufferable flog. I swear the only thing in his sad, lonely life that brought him any joy was interrogating people with gotcha questions and attempting to laud his "superiority" over everyone.
        
        He once tried to argue about medical science with me for like 2 days (like he knew more about it than someone whose job it is), but all he did was hastily Google shit and then ineptly regurgitate it. All because he refused to concede that there was anyone on this earth who knew more about a topic than he did.
        
        I really hope covid got him.
        
        mskeggs on 13/04/2021 - 13:32
        
        +1
        
        @[Deactivated]: We used to laugh at AOL, but I guess they got the last laugh!
        Good lesson there for lots of tech people. Good technology doesn’t always triumph, and the money guys don’t care about the tech at all, just about maximising getting paid.
        
        [Deactivated] on 13/04/2021 - 14:33
        
        @mskeggs: Yep. Their product was an awful, clunky restricted walled garden, SVGA I think, couldn't give away enough CDs like a weird cult…but they truly hit paydirt.
        
        MnGQ can join in on this one to show their chops. What's the biggest lead balloon Australian IT project you know of. Doesn't have to be ISP related, but we are talking huge development cost, huge burn rate and then DOA, never even launched. Much bigger failure than Team Bondi's Whore of the Orient. I'll also exclude every Victorian government IT project as they are too easy to google. Keep it private sector.
        
        mskeggs on 13/04/2021 - 13:39
        
        +1
        
        @[Deactivated]: The main subject of that article is now mayor of the town he moved to, and is serving in NY state government. So cashing out of AOL was probably a net good!
        https://www.linkedin.com/in/halmccabe/
  - ozbargainsam on 12/04/2021 - 00:31
    
    +2
    
    Where's my bemused face emoji…🤨
    
    I think you're reading FrugalRock's message too literally. Every permanent job has some amount of implicit overtime. I believe they're saying that if you 'drop tools' at exactly 7.6 hours or work done a day, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot.
    
    On the other hand, generalising that every overworked employee has been bad doesn't mention if those employees are being forced to work those crazy hours. Now, if they're working extra to cover their incompetency, yeah sure, that's obvious.
    
    I guess you've never been part of a crunch before,
    - mskeggs on 12/04/2021 - 07:23
      
      +2
      
      I’ve never worked in job where there hasn’t been at least occasional need for out of hours work, when there is a new release going live out of business hours, for example.
      
      But I’ve also worked in environments where the workload is 4x the staff level with constant fake deadlines. It can be exciting, and get massive amounts of stuff done, but I wouldn’t recommend it to somebody who prioritises regular hours.
    - [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 09:33
      
      +2
      
      Every permanent job has some amount of implicit overtime.
      
      Yup, but that should be the exception and not the rule where you're putting in an extra 2-4 hours a day everyday,
      
      I believe they're saying that if you 'drop tools' at exactly 7.6 hours or work done a day, you're basically shooting yourself in the foot.
      
      That depends, are you really good at your job and do that? Then, that is going to be fine if your productivity and output is higher than someone that works 18 hour days to produce half as much.
      - ozbargainsam on 12/04/2021 - 10:54
        
        @[Deactivated]: A phrase I've seen used is 'reasonable overtime' in contracts. It obviously varies across industry and company.
        
        For example, lawyers while associates can put in dozens of hours a week extra regularly as it's simply part of the culture.
        
        That depends, are you really good at your job and do that? Then, that is going to be fine if your productivity and output is higher than someone that works 18 hour days to produce half as much.
        
        You're comparing two ends of the scale. Instead, take two identical people, but where one does a (reasonable) handful of extra curricular stuff that promotes their visibility. They will absolutely have a better chance of advancement. People who merely 'do their job' do not stand out. That's why mere talent doesn't always get you where you need.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 11:11
        
        @ozbargainsam: Why would I punish a well performing employee for not putting in overtime?
        
        That could annoy them, they might go elsewhere, and the next person in their seat might well not be anywhere near as good.
        
        Treat your good employees well.
        
        Putting in overtime is not a good measure of output and productivity.
        
        Corporate culture, especially in Australia is toxic and I won't allow the workplace I provide for my employees to become like that.
        
        For example, lawyers while associates can put in dozens of hours a week extra regularly as it's simply part of the culture.
        
        Sure, and investment banking is even worse than that.
        
        ozbargainsam on 12/04/2021 - 13:56
        
        @[Deactivated]: Not punishing, preferring.
        
        In a hypothetical sea of clones of you, how do you stand out? You put in some extra effort. Forgive the mansplain, but it's just how society works.
        
        Please don't take what I'm saying to the extreme. I'm just saying doing zero stuff outside of your 'just a job' can be a detriment.
        
        Also possible, is that you could actually be talented and do your job in less than 7.6 hours and use the balance to 'stand out'.
        
        Also, definitely not just Australia. And not just IT. And not just professionals. Look at some Asian countries and how primary aged school kids are doing homework late into the night every night.
        
        [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 18:19
        
        @ozbargainsam:
        
        Look at some Asian countries and how primary aged school kids are doing homework late into the night every night.
        
        Yes. Because we all know how healthy that is… Not.
- abb on 12/04/2021 - 13:30
  
  +4
  
  Have some faith that if you make your bosses money you will be rewarded.
  
  May as well have faith in the easter bunny.
Orico on 12/04/2021 - 06:37

+1

These days software engineers are expected to work from home too. During crunch time I usually spend an extra 2 hours at work every day.
pharkurnell on 12/04/2021 - 07:34

+6

what if I want my own time as I have family with kids and need to take care and spend time with kids and don't want to be on call availability at all times.

You should work that out before taking the new position.

Once you start working stupid hours, they will expect it as the normal.
NatoTomato on 12/04/2021 - 09:17

+1

Work for a healthcare tech company. Get in early by choice. Leave right on the dot, no matter what.
They wouldn't care if I got in on the dot as well, but I have nothing better to do of a morning so shrug
Quantumcat on 12/04/2021 - 09:56

Before you start, ask if they pay for overtime and on call. When you're on call you should get paid a small amount just for being on call (as means you can't go out and can't drink etc), and 1 or 2 hours minimum if you get a call and have to come in (even if you just go in there for ten minutes to fix something).

I get paid for overtime but no super or leave accrues. So I don't try to get overtime whenever I can, just do it if there's a deadline but don't feel aggrieved about it as it is compensated. Probably only two or three times in a year would I need to do it (might work an extra hour or two on weekday evenings and a couple hours on Saturday). No on call.

A friend of mine does not get paid for overtime (if there's work that needs doing he just needs to do it). But he is on call occasionally and gets a retainer for each night he's on call, and paid 2 hours minimum if he gets called.
brendanm on 12/04/2021 - 09:59

First thing I tell people when I apply for a job is that I work only normal hours, no Saturdays and no overtime. Then they know where you are at, and no one's time is wasted.
87percent on 12/04/2021 - 10:51

for me, it depends on the project. Some months i'll work heaps of overtime (as in outside of normal work hours, i don't actually get OT pay, instead i get time off). And some months i'll be working 1/2 days
cotro on 12/04/2021 - 12:05

I've been working for large companies for a while. At most well respected Australian tech companies, there is not a massive expectation of long hours (although a few hours here and there pop up fairly frequently).

You are probably more likely to work longer hours for a company whos primary focus is not software, as they may have different expectations on how long it actually takes to make working software.
scotty on 12/04/2021 - 12:07

+2

Been in software dev in ISVs since 1997 and having occasional overtime is the norm. You do sometimes need that extra hour or two of quietness to focus, after all the business and support people left for the day. On call is rare though, as I would think most companies would only call the devs if something is really broken and the operational people can't do anything about it.
- [Deactivated] on 12/04/2021 - 18:29
  
  So in your 24 years of experience, you didn't consistently work 20 hour days, 8 days a week?
  
  I presume you didn't stalk CEOs at coffee shops either?
orangetrain on 12/04/2021 - 14:31

Interviews are actually a two way street.

You should be assessing whether the company is a good fit for you. Luckily, companies offer a probation period when you start. Its where you don't need to give notice if they would give you none.
deme on 12/04/2021 - 15:14

Zero

I haven't worked overtime ever.
- bobbified on 13/04/2021 - 12:08
  
  Call centre or retail?
  - deme on 13/04/2021 - 12:20
    
    SWE
lainey13 on 12/04/2021 - 20:48

Certain industries/very large companies are more likely to have an EBA (enterprise bargaining agreement) which will detail your set working hours and overtime rates. The downsides will be a very strict structure of renumeration and yearly increases even if you have the best rating. You can generally find a copy online if you look hard enough.
Where unions are strong, you are less likely to have to work for free. But size of company doesn't dictate the culture or expectation of overtime.
Benno007 on 16/04/2021 - 20:16

It depends on your motivation, your skill level, your teams culture and skill level, and your company. I’d say there are broadly three types of software teams/companies:

1) the thrashers
2) the silent ones
3) the pragmatic ones

Despite these cultures, you don’t have to abide by them. If you’re a good developer, you can get a job whenever you like. If it’s important to you, put it in your cover letter, or ask about the working culture in your interview.

1) The Thrashers
If your company is thrashing you, telling you and your team over and over we need you to work late to get this feature done, and you know you’re producing as much as everyone else, then it’s not a good company culture. You can either try and change it (don’t try too long cos it usually doesn’t work out), or leave. Sometimes you might like doing this, and you contribute to that culture, because as a software engineer you like to solve problems.
If you’re working extra because you’re not performing as well as others are, then you might want to ask for help earlier (try asking after 20mins of trying something rather than a few hours). Or look for a job at a slightly lower level, or closer to your skill set. I have seen people work til 2am in the morning because they had the motivation to - but it was also because they never asked for help and also they were a little more junior than they’d let on. If instead, they paired with a more senior developer, it’s likely they would have learned different strategies to deal with complex problems.

In these teams, you’ll likely be working late by 30-60mins, maybe a few hours once a month- or every single day (depending how bad it is). You’ll often skip lunch or eat at your desk.

This was my first job. I absolutely loved it, but frequently worked 9-10 hour days, up to 17 hour days when we were about to release a new website. We were all young, all wanted to help each other out, got paid extra for it, and also got food and stuff. I felt way overworked a lot of the time. I was here 4 years . We had about 3 devs and 20 other staff.

2) The Silent Ones
There are companies with managers that say nothing, never ask you to work late or skip lunches etc, BUT the feeling is still there that you need to, because everyone else does it. Just because everyone else does it, doesn’t mean they want to be doing it. Be the change you want to see. Start and leave on time, contribute as much as you can while you’re there. If anyone asks, say you’re more productive when you have a work life balance, and everyone deserves that.

In these teams, you’ll probably just be working back an hour at most, probably most days.

This was my second job. Management had these expectations and disregarded your estimates on how long things would take. There was no recourse apart from finishing it. They’d very rarely allow scope to be cut. I was here 3y 8mo. We had about 30 devs and 100+ other staff.

3) The Pragmatic ones (unicorn companies I guess)
These are the teams that realize that everyone has a life. People have kids, family, friends, sports, health etc outside of work. You don’t usually see this in teams where the median age is < 25 years old. I’d say from 25+ you’d see people less keen to spend every waking hour at work.

In these teams, managers may actively tell you to stop working. Managers will say it’s a failure of them if you feel like you have to stay back late or work extra hours to get something done. Occasionally, there may be a last minute thing that must be done. These places usually will respect time in lieu. They’ll expect you to take the extra time you worked off. If you are a solid contributor, you will get enough klout eventually to work your own hours, and then it’s up to your own interest to work more hours

This is the company I’m in now. I have worked from home since the start of the pandemic. I aim to work from 730 til 330, which is 30mins less than my contract hours (after 1hr lunch break). I also try to take ~5min breaks every hr for my health and mobility. I also will do household chores here and there for 5-10mins at a time. I can do this because it prefer my work time to be flexible. But because of my work ethic, many days I end up working an extra hour or two, or skip lunch entirely. Or I come back late at night and work an hour or two. I am confident it giving them more hours than I’m contracted for, I just don’t work a dedicated 7.6hrs straight. We have 22 devs

I’d never do on call again unless it’s paid. We get paid $500/wk and that’s barely worth it for me, even though we only get like 1 issue a month… if that.

Source:
I have been a web developer since 2003. My first job was in 2009.
havagoon on 26/04/2021 - 01:10

Currently working at one of the FAANGs in Sydney, we have a week of unpaid oncall once every 2 months. Also occasionally a few extra hours here and there to meet deadlines.
freefall101 on 26/04/2021 - 14:00

+1

I worked at a company where one person regularly worked until 1am, kept being slammed with work, was constantly complaining about her work because they kept loading her up but she kept doing it anyway. She was a pretty erratic human being to be around, because sometimes she just wouldn't deliver (probably because she was exhausted).

As a result, she lasted 2 years in the job, was never promoted (because no reasonable person would work that hard for that little wage, plus there was no sign she'd be better in a higher paid job) and pretty much burnt herself out.

Another guy I worked with, 5pm on the dot he was out the door. Reason was to spend time with his family. People were extremely apologetic if he needed to stay back to finish something and he always calmly did if it was actually important, but it was like once a month and often just said "I'll do it tomorrow" if not critical. Always really supportive, loved his job, really nice to people (because he wasn't sleep deprived) and is now in a really senior role in the company.

If you're going to work insane hours, there has to be a benefit. It sounds like there's no benefit, so don't worry, keep doing what you're doing. No one cares if you do 5 hours of overtime every single day, they care if you do it when there's an absolute crunch it and helps other people out, that's good manager material.

There are culture exceptions of course, I worked big 4 audit so if I left at 5 they would have just fired me. But they ripped the hell out of me once for being 15 minutes late one morning after working until 2am the night before.

What's The Usual Overtime in Software Industry

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